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Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:38 PM

I really will be disappointed if Biden allows for the stimulus phaseout to begin at $50,000.

I make over $50,000 as an individual. I do not claim anyone on my taxes. I promise you I am not wealthy. I don't have a lot of money once my bills are paid. If Biden seriously goes with Manchin and puts the individual phaseout at $50,000+, I am going to be very disappointed. I could really use that $1,400 and have been counting on it since Biden won and promised 'every American' would receive $1,400.

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Reply I really will be disappointed if Biden allows for the stimulus phaseout to begin at $50,000. (Original post)
Drunken Irishman Feb 5 OP
msongs Feb 5 #1
jimfields33 Feb 5 #2
Drunken Irishman Feb 5 #4
jimfields33 Feb 5 #8
obamanut2012 Feb 6 #89
jimfields33 Feb 6 #96
mobeau69 Feb 5 #12
Demsrule86 Feb 5 #17
beaglelover Feb 5 #19
TexasBushwhacker Feb 5 #34
Turin_C3PO Feb 5 #3
underpants Feb 5 #5
jimfields33 Feb 5 #9
Ferrets are Cool Feb 5 #11
underpants Feb 5 #15
sheshe2 Feb 5 #21
TexasBushwhacker Feb 5 #35
tblue37 Feb 5 #6
underpants Feb 5 #7
obamanut2012 Feb 5 #10
Bettie Feb 5 #30
Blue_true Feb 5 #39
Bettie Feb 6 #53
Blue_true Feb 6 #57
Bettie Feb 6 #67
Autumn Feb 6 #71
Blue_true Feb 6 #102
Autumn Feb 6 #105
Blue_true Feb 6 #107
Autumn Feb 6 #108
Blue_true Feb 6 #110
Autumn Feb 6 #111
obamanut2012 Feb 6 #59
Rosco T. Feb 5 #13
Drunken Irishman Feb 5 #16
Iris Feb 6 #47
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #52
obamanut2012 Feb 6 #70
Captain Zero Feb 6 #68
dawg Feb 6 #77
Demsrule86 Feb 5 #14
Iris Feb 6 #56
LisaM Feb 5 #18
JI7 Feb 5 #23
Demsrule86 Feb 5 #20
Drunken Irishman Feb 5 #22
Celerity Feb 5 #25
Blue_true Feb 5 #37
Celerity Feb 5 #40
Blue_true Feb 5 #42
Celerity Feb 5 #44
Takket Feb 5 #24
Skittles Feb 5 #26
getagrip_already Feb 5 #27
Drunken Irishman Feb 5 #32
getagrip_already Feb 6 #64
lame54 Feb 5 #28
Maven Feb 5 #29
crickets Feb 5 #31
Celerity Feb 5 #46
Iris Feb 6 #48
leftstreet Feb 6 #50
Bettie Feb 6 #54
kcr Feb 6 #72
coti Feb 6 #101
Bettie Feb 6 #106
TuskMoar Feb 6 #109
handmade34 Feb 5 #33
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #55
Roisin Ni Fiachra Feb 6 #65
Blue_true Feb 5 #36
Kaleva Feb 5 #38
Iris Feb 6 #49
Liberal In Texas Feb 5 #41
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 6 #51
NurseJackie Feb 6 #66
Turin_C3PO Feb 6 #79
Arazi Feb 6 #83
dawg Feb 6 #85
roamer65 Feb 5 #43
Vivienne235729 Feb 5 #45
JI7 Feb 6 #58
obamanut2012 Feb 6 #60
Tink41 Feb 6 #61
OnionPatch Feb 6 #62
JI7 Feb 6 #63
dawg Feb 6 #73
msfiddlestix Feb 6 #69
dawg Feb 6 #74
msfiddlestix Feb 6 #75
dawg Feb 6 #76
Kaleva Feb 6 #78
Turin_C3PO Feb 6 #80
Kaleva Feb 6 #82
Turin_C3PO Feb 6 #86
Kaleva Feb 6 #91
dawg Feb 6 #81
Kaleva Feb 6 #87
dawg Feb 6 #90
Kaleva Feb 6 #92
dawg Feb 6 #93
Kaleva Feb 6 #94
dawg Feb 6 #95
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #98
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #97
Kaleva Feb 7 #114
Drunken Irishman Feb 7 #115
Roisin Ni Fiachra Feb 7 #113
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 6 #84
dawg Feb 6 #88
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #99
ProfessorGAC Feb 6 #100
Drunken Irishman Feb 6 #104
ProfessorGAC Feb 7 #112
ecstatic Feb 6 #103

Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:40 PM

1. campaign promises lol nt

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:40 PM

2. I'm waiting till the final version is voted on before getting upset

I guess I donít need it but itíd be nice to have a cushion for a change. Weíll see.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:42 PM

4. If people don't voice their concerns before then, and it gets to that point, it'll be too late.

I don't NEED the money but Biden reiterated today in his speech that he said EVERY American would get $1,400. He needs to be held to that. If I don't get $1,400, he lied.

But I am seeing mixed messages. He states every American should get $1,400 but then says to NBC he could be on board with what Manchin is proposing. That is not every American then.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:47 PM

8. I can call my senators

However, I have Rubio and Scott. Yieks. They probably want nothing. My house guy is Daniel Webster. Not sure heís any better. My state rep is Sabatini. Goodness. Not a good one in the bunch.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:42 PM

89. Bless you, my child

I at least have Lois Frankel and Lori Berman as my Fed and State Reps.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #89)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 03:55 PM

96. Thanks! Lol.

It has to be nice to have a few. Iíd like one. Ha! Have a great weekend!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:57 PM

12. It never was about everyone. Geez

So some get 1390. Depends on the number of brackets.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:59 PM

17. I called my Senators today...call your Senators and the house elected and the White House tell them

NO.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:00 PM

19. Every American didn't get the first stimulus payments.

I didn't get one and don't need one as I've been able to keep my job during this pandemic and earn above the cutoff. The $600 payments went to the same group who got the first stimulus payments and the latest $1,400 was supposed to go to that same group, but now he may change that to increase the threshold.

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Response to beaglelover (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:33 PM

34. I have a friend who had just retired at age 58

She was only working a part time job and when COVID happened, they cut her hours. Since she was part time, she didn't qualify for unemployment. She decided to take her pension in a lump sum, so for the purposes of the stimulus payments she "made" too much.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:42 PM

3. I agree that it should be the same

threshold as the last checks. Otherwise thereís gonna be a whole lot of pissed off people. Itís not a done deal yet so we need to keep up the pressure.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:43 PM

5. I will be surprised if it's that low

We have a couple of projects that we will need to hire someone to do - a dog door for instance - and some 100K mileage work on my wifeís car. We are probably not out of the norm in that regard. Yes the buying of groceries and immediate bills by people really hurting will help float the economy but contractors need to keep going too. Economists know that so I donít think it will be at $50K.

My 2Ę

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Response to underpants (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:50 PM

9. I know it's a typo.

But your wifeís car needing fix for 100K might be a tank. Lol. Iíve done this too many times to count. Have a great weekend!

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:56 PM

11. 100 thousand mile maintenance

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:58 PM

15. Thanks. Corrected.

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Response to underpants (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:03 PM

21. I want to ask, most politely...

What kind of car needs 100K in repairs? I have had 4 cars I purchased in my life all of them combined did not cost 100K.

Not judging, yet a curious need to know. It would be less costly to buy a new economical car.

Just my thoughts.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:34 PM

35. 100K MILEAGE - standard maintenance

But it's pretty extensive

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:45 PM

6. We should all write & call & remind them that in many cases $50,000 isn't that much because

of local cost of living. Also, if someone made good money last year, but lost a job or was pushed down to part time because of covid, they can be suffering.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:46 PM

7. I will be surprised if it's that low

We have a couple of projects that we will need to hire someone to do - a dog door for instance - and some 100K work on my wifeís car. We are probably not out of the norm in that regard. Yes the buying of groceries and immediate bills by people really hurting will help float the economy but contractors need to keep going too. Economists know that so I donít think it will be at $50K.

My 2Ę

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:51 PM

10. If they want to means test it, then do it right and adjust for CoL

They shouldn't, but if the cap is at 50K literally blue urban and suburbs are who is being hurt. So, the red RWNJ Panhandle areas where rent is really cheap gets their full nut, even if they make 49K, but if someone in nice and blue PBC and Broward, where rent for a very small one-bedroom is at least $1,500+, makes 51K doesn't get the full nut?

So, Dems and President Biden, why do you want to reward the folks who voted for Trump???

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:34 PM

30. It could make a lot of people who voted for Democrats

feel like they are being screwed over.

Plus, STIMULUS is meant to stimulate the economy by getting money into the hands of people who will spend it.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:44 PM

39. Do they will vote for republicans or sit home?

Both would be like cutting their wrists, while sitting in warm water. We wonít get really good things until republicans are totally minimized electorally, that means we vote for democrats until we have removed the obstructionists.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:31 AM

53. Making people feel betrayed, screwed over isn't

good for our party.

Telling people "Suck it! Where are you going to go?" isn't a great strategy either.

Not everyone wants to be politically active. If the message the people who aren't super active get is "that guy told me this and then did that", they'll check back out.

But, whatever....if your opinion is that it's cool to do that, then, fine.

My opinion differs.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:44 AM

57. You make good points.

I believe that what gave rise to Trump, other than President Obama being Black, was that President Obama worked to meet on common ground with republicans, that resulted in packages like the economic recovery package not meeting all of the needs of people most in need (like homeowners who were in default because they were trying to own a home in an overpriced, over-heated environment. When it came to be saved, the big banks and investment houses pushed their way to the head of the federal feed trough. I truly believe that President Biden learned from that and will fight to get a package that helps people that need help - politically that should be beneficial. So far, President Biden has said that he is open for capping the full stimulus check, but he has wisely avoided saying at what level. I personally think the point up to full $1400 should stay at $75,000, but the decline after that should be steeper. I would also be in favor of giving children in a household less, currently a four person household with two kids, with the couple making combined $150,000 or less would get total payout of $5,600 ($1400 for each parent and child). Maybe cut the child amount to $800.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #57)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:55 AM

67. Thank you

Biden saw what happened every time they reached across the aisle with Obama.

I honestly am surprised at how he's working on this, in a good way.

He seems to be giving them enough rope to hang themselves; asking for bipartisanship, but if they aren't willing, he's not going to waste time on it or give them whatever they demand only to get zero votes from them anyway.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:57 AM

71. They vote for the politician who promises to look out for them. If that politician goes back

on their word not everyone feels that politician should be rewarded. You may have loyalty to a party, many people don't. A person hurting doesn't give a fuck about the person who promised to help them then lets them down, neither do they trust that person. There is no difference to Joe American if the person letting them hurt is Republican or Democrat. Yeah. They will sit home. That carrot on a stick no longer works.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #71)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 06:31 PM

102. So, you would take total destruction of everything that you say you value,

because you didnít get all you wanted on a handful of issues? That choice has been what has continued to set us back for decades now, after we make some critical steps forward with Presidents like Carter, Clinton, Obama.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #102)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:55 PM

105. Nope, not me. I'm doing fine. To younger voters it might be a handful of issues but

those issues are vitally important to them. Older voters have loyalty to the party, because the party has seen to their needs, not so much with what the younger people are facing. Just telling you what I have seen and heard younger people say. They have no loyalty to politicians or parties. What set us back is losing control of the house and the senate to Republicans. Take the Dem losses in 2010 and 2014, the 2020 election Democrats did well to hold their seat loss to 13. Why do you think that was? If a party wants voters to be there when they need their votes that party has to be there for them. This nonsense over the $1400 and means testing 2019 income is just stupid and will piss off a lot of people who are hurting. Once again, like in 2008 when so many lost so much, when the chips are down and the people are losing everything the meat is stripped from the bone being tossed to them. And the Democrats will get the blame for it.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #105)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:20 PM

107. Maybe those young people need to remember the phrase

ďAsk not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your countryĒ. Sometimes our best interests are actually best served by looking out for the best interests of others. If four years of Trump and two years of a completely republicans controlled congress didnít teach them how much worst republican control of government can be, then I donít know what can. I donít worship a party or a politician, unlike some here, in particular around some politicians, I simply look at my values and ask what party and itís politicians can produce progress and limit setbacks, there is only one answer to that question in modern times. President Joe Biden is having to restore LGBTQ rights, immigrant rights, minority rights, womenís reproductive rights that were taken away by Trump and congressional republicans - so will people remember that when voting in 2022, or will they be upset about not getting $1400 (sadly, a well managed economy over that time will put a lot more than $1400 in their pockets).

I am in good shape all around, I am straight, male, a professional and a business owner. I did better financially under Trumpís screwed up administration than under President Obamaís. But I voted for Hillary and Joe, and lower ticket democrats, because they would not take away hard won rights and opportunities for LGBTQ Americans, would not role back reproductive rights, would hold police departments accountable for the actions of the people they employ. My own interests were second to broader societal interests, that is one thing that the young people of whom you speak need to learn, because a brighter future for them depend upon them learning that hard truth.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #107)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:50 PM

108. These young people weren't alive when he said that. And if it wanted to, our country can do a

lot for the people than they do, not just the wealthy and corporations. Like healthcare, education that they don't owe for life, and help to keep afloat in a global pandemics. IMO our best interests are best served by looking out for the best interests of the young people. They are the future and we are not giving them a lot to work with. Minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, was set in 2009, it's now 2021 and still the same. That some sad nonsense. Many young people will never be able to afford to but a home, much less become business owners. Here's some hard truth for you, Democrats want young people to vote for them they need to step up and do for those young people. Politicians need to get that vote, no one owes them anything, much less their vote.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #108)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:37 PM

110. One thing that I agree with you on is our healthcare system is garbage.

The pandemic is showing that to be true, for anyone willing to observe. Britain, with itís centralized healthcare and disease surveying is doing much better, even with a clueless buffoon at the wheel. The pandemic likely has settled the debate that sprung up in Britain about whether the national health system was an outdated model, it isnít outdated, in fact it is the only system that can confront a major health threat to society.

But back to young people. You seemed to have spat out ďstart a businessĒ like that was easy and I had flowers thrown at my feet, outside of public funded infrastructure, laws, ect - young people have the very same things available to them. I started my business on a stovetop after being busted flat financially by another business failing (interestingly, I had a lot more resources available in that situation). Two of my brothers own businesses, both worked for minimum wage and started up from scratch, no one gave them anything outside of public roads, and infrastructure - but, that all is available this very day to the young people of whom you speak. I am not a idiot that claims that I did everything on my own, that is dead wrong, the whole of society provided a platform from which I was able to scrabble together money to get started - that is available to young people, even the ones in minimum wage jobs. A business doesnít have to be started up with a big cash infusion, if a person is ok with thinking small, that person can launch a business without a lot of resources other than the infrastructure that society provides everyone.

The pandemic does pose special challenges, but with more commerce being done online, it also presents great opportunities for young people that can image up products or services that are useful to a decent swath of society. $1400 is a one time deal and once it is gone, if a person relies on getting more, that is going to be difficult with republicans having any say, that is the philosophical point that I made about voting regardless, you seem to be trying to turn that point into politician or party worship, it is not, it is a cold realization that young people, all young people, are far better off with Democrats holding power.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #110)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:58 PM

111. No one spat out anything. The real cold realization is that many young people

need to be shown that they will be better off under Democrats, not just the wealthy and corporations. And Democrats need to prove it to them. Thanks to bipartisanship watering down everything that is done for the working class most young people have never seen the Democrats do the great things we saw them do. Young people today are too busy working to keep a roof over their heads and it often takes 2 paychecks to make that rent or house payment. 40% of Americans are one paycheck away from financial disaster and 63% of Americans have been living paycheck to paycheck since Covid hit. With this pandemic homelessness would be off the charts if not for the eviction moratorium. And when this is over they are going to have to pay that back rent, creating more financial hardship. Millennials are on track to be the first generation not to exceed their parents in terms of job status or income and that's not factoring in other challenges they face like climate change.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 07:56 AM

59. Yup, people forget it is stimulus

I need a new laptop badly, but rent is more important. I'll spend half or so of 1400 on a new laptop.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:57 PM

13. 50k pre or post tax?

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Response to Rosco T. (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:58 PM

16. I am assuming they go by gross - I definitely don't make $50,000 after taxes.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:03 AM

47. It's adjusted gross income - the income the government would tax you on

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Response to Iris (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:29 AM

52. That's fine. I still won't make the cut.

If Biden signs that bill, I will lose a lot of faith in his presidency and not trust much of what he has to say going forward.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #52)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:34 AM

70. yup

It will also be used to hurt Warnock in 2022, and it WILL hurt him.

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Response to Iris (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:11 AM

68. AGI IS after the newer 12k standard deduction per person

So Theoretically a married couple with 73k total income could get under the 50k, in a squeaker.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #68)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:55 AM

77. No it isn't.

AGI is before the standard deduction.

You are confusing AGI with taxable income, but they are two different numbers.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:58 PM

14. I think that would be a mistake...we need to keep the number that Trump did...and 50,000 isn't

that much money these days.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:42 AM

56. I agree

I read in NYT this afternoon that Biden said he didn't want to go under 300,000 for married couples but I haven't seen that reported anywhere else.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 08:59 PM

18. 50k in West Virginia

Is not the same as 50K in Seattle. Machin must know that.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:07 PM

23. Manchin wants more things for West Virginia

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:02 PM

20. Biden just said he thought 75,000 for single and 150,000 for families....that is what he wants.

He wants the 15.00 as well but fears it will be stripped out based on reconciliation rules. He was speaking to Norah O'Donnell.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:04 PM

22. Good to hear.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:14 PM

25. 75K as the beginning of the lowered amounts or 75K as in you get nothing (with 50K were the sliding

starts I would assume)?

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Response to Celerity (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:39 PM

37. You assumed right. nt

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:44 PM

40. So 50K its starts to phase out, and at 75K nothing?

If that is the case my cousin in Los Angeles is going to snap, arffffff.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:01 PM

42. I believe that in the first package, total phaseout didn't happen until

$99,000. So, if a similar scale is used, at $50,000 to start the decrease, phaseout would happen at around $79,000. So yes, your relative would get a small check, but nothing to write home about.

I remember when Bush did the $300 check. My annual earnings were well above the cutoff and I was on job assignment in an expensive place. But I was perfectly ok with getting nothing. I donít eat out much, I learned to cook in my teens and can cook anything that I try, so, I am not spending $12-$40 per pop for meals several times per week, nor am I spending $4 for a TV dinner. I have historically spent around $240 per month for food, toiletries, toilet paper and paper towels - that really hasnít changed in a long time for me. I donít drink alcohol or smoke at all, so that results in big savings for me (It is not a religious or cultural thing, I just never had a taste for either).

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:15 PM

44. She makes right around 75K per annum (gross), so got close to the full amount last 2 times.

IF the phaseouts start at 50K and end at 75K, she will get basically nothing. I already have been trying to get her to accept that the 2000 USD cheques were a TOTAL of 600 plus 1400, and not a new round at 2000 usd in one cheque. I do not even want to think how she is going to react if she gets totally cut out this go round. It took me 2 years plus of work just to get her to vote for the first time in 2020. She hates politics, and of course, her favourite saying (which I overcame) was 'why vote, the (insert a word that is very common in the UK but Americans have a fit over) on both sides promise this and that and never do shite'.


I am truly hoping for everyone else's (I make too much to get a cheque and would just donate it to our 2022 Senate candidates in the 4 at risk races we have if I did get one) sake its 75usd for the START of the phaseouts again.

thanks for all the info!!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:08 PM

24. $1400 was the deal at the same levels as the $600

deliver on the deal.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:15 PM

26. the party that gave tax cuts to billionaires

now claims that $50,000 is "upper income"

Biden should NOT agree

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:20 PM

27. every american was never a promise......

Sorry, it never was. Americans in need of assistance was the "goal", but it was never a promise, and certainly the koch brothers and the murdoch's were never considered.

If you want more relief, great. But it doesn't sound like you are at risk of losing your home or having your car repossessed or your kids missing a meal.

Others are.

I'm not getting any money either, but I'm not complaining.

just sayin.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:05 PM

32. President Biden today:

"I'm not cutting the size of the checks. They're going to be $1,400. Period. That's what the American people were promised."

If it's not $1,400 then that's breaking a promise.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:46 AM

64. I was referring to the claim that "everyone" was promised a check...

That was never true. The first round went to moderate income americans and below. The rich were excluded. Now, the cutoff income may move lower, and that will mean some people who got checks before won't get them again.

But it was never a promise that ALL americans would get checks. Never.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:31 PM

28. It takes a village...

Many of us who are still working are sharing with family who need it creating many small stimuli

Thst is never considered

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:34 PM

29. Our party's obsession with 'means testing' has to stop

It is a conservative mindset and is politically self-defeating.

Stop being worried that people who don't need help will get it. Start being worried that people who do need help won't get it.

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 09:42 PM

31. +1

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:22 PM

46. +10

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:07 AM

48. exactly

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:18 AM

50. +1

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:32 AM

54. Yes, it does

but how do we get people past that?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #54)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:06 AM

72. Some people never will

You can't fix stingy. But you move on anyway.

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 06:30 PM

101. 100%. Stop being exclusionary except in the obvious cases.

It's more about the larger economy being stimulated, to help everyone, than particular individuals.

It's that kind of "do they REALLY need it" mentality that leads to scapegoating and the middle class being pitted against itself by racism.

Don't begrudge your neighbor doing reasonably well. Don't get manipulated through jealousy.

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Response to coti (Reply #101)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:00 PM

106. YES! It is a back door to pitting ordinary people against each other

"See? It isn't the billionaires who screw you over! It's the guy over there who makes a little less than you do!"

This is why the right makes this argument and our side would be stupid to do what they demand.

Fact is, we could put everything they demand in the bill, means testing, money for the richest .01% and we would still get 0 Republican votes. So, why even bother with it at all.

They have ZERO intention of cooperating. With anything.

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Response to Maven (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:24 PM

109. AGREED!!!!!!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:28 PM

33. Biden won't "allow" anything

Biden will do whatever he has to to get as much money to as many people as he can... he is working with a very slim 'majority' with a couple of Democrats that don't see it like you and I...

we complain and criticize Biden at our peril... too many memories of people here complaining that Obama wasn't getting them everything they thought he should... the irrational discouragement gave us a Republican House and Senate in 2010... we do not want to replicate that...

truth is, it will take a whole lot more that $1400 to make a lot of people whole... we need to worry about the people losing homes and racking up way too much debt because of Covid

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:33 AM

55. If he signs it, he allows it. Simple.

And there are going to be people expecting the $1,400 who are not high earners (like myself), who are going to be thoroughly disappointed if their next check is for only $1,000 or $600 like the last.

Frankly, I won't trust Biden if I don't get $1,400. It sucks but that will be my take going forward because today, at his speech, Biden outright said: "I'm not cutting the size of the checks. They're going to be $1,400. Period. That's what the American people were promised."

He said it again today - Americans were promised $1,400. Period.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #55)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:47 AM

65. Then Manchin could make it so that nobody, except McConnell and

the Qpublicans, gets anything.

I'm sick of conservative Democrats being the sword of Damocles always held over our heads, and preventing us from passing progressive legislation when we are in the majority. It's really stressful always having them there, wondering if they are going to obstruct most everything we try to pass, and even having to worry about them switching parties if they don't get their way. It's so not fun, or good for the blood pressure. We have way more than enough to worry about from destructive lunatic Qpublicans.

It's like being on a basketball team, and always worrying about one of your teammates selling you out. You're ahead, 51 to 50, with 5 seconds left, and you have the ball. Victory is certain. Then the teammate you are worried about just hands the ball to Marjorie Taylor Greene, top shooter for the other team, and she drives down the court for a layup as time expires.

Defeat is snatched from the hands of certain victory once again.

Hopefully. the President can convince Manchin to be a real team player.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:37 PM

36. If you make $60,000 your check won't be far from $1400. nt

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:41 PM

38. I get a little over 16K a year and I'll spend it if I get it but I don't actually need it.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:08 AM

49. Right and your spending it will put $$ back into th economy

and helps save jobs.

Tonight I heard a bit on NPR that said Biden said we basically need to go big or go home. If this stimulus bill comes up short, it's not going to do what it is intended to do.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 10:57 PM

41. The repubs will be able to use this as ammo saying Dems lied about giving the middle class

the $2K that was promised during the election.

That is exactly why they are pushing for this. It has nothing to do with inflation or the national debt. It's to put the Dems in a bad light.

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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:19 AM

51. Yep. And it should be 2000 not 1400

God forbid we help people out more than their after the fact ďwell actuallyĒ figure of 1400

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #51)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:55 AM

66. LOL!

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #51)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:17 PM

79. I think $2000 is off the table.

$1400 seems to be the number. We just need it to include as many people as possible.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #51)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:28 PM

83. Agreed 1000%. Especially if we want to keep Warnock's seat on 2022, we go large

Ossoff and Warnock specifically said $2k per person, no quibbling. That Senate seat is perilous. I completely agree is time to go large and fully fulfill that promise

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #51)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:31 PM

85. I'd do full $2,000 checks if it were up to me.

I did, however, always perceive that the promises related to the checks involved increasing the $600 to a full $2,000. So $1,400 is what I have always expected, and is also what I feel was promised - no more, no less.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:04 PM

43. At a minimum, it needs to be done at the 1st stimulus cut off levels.

Otherwise it will boomerang on us.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:15 PM

45. I agree. $50k is a very low threshold. Millions of people are hurting making more than that

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 07:13 AM

58. Start contacting Senators on this

Schumer and Pelosi are from the most expensive areas of the country so hopefully that will help.

I don't think people realize how most people who live in the most expensive parts of the country struggle financially .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #58)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:00 AM

60. Exactly

I make decent money, but live in Sofl. My standard of living is much lower than if I lived in Omaha, or even the Panhandle.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:35 AM

61. Heres the thing

That 50,000 threshold is going off of 2019 reported income. We have been in this pandemic weeks away from a year.
If they want that number to be the threshold then they need to rethink it. Look at the unemployment rate. I haven't been employed for a year. Made 75 grand for 2019 reported income, was hanging on in 2020, 2021 it will be by a thread.
So you have people who may have made that amount but are nowhere near it now, to use an amount that happened 2 years ago
is not logical. My thoughts are to dole it out to everyone and once you file your taxes they can then recoup that money based off income from last year. Not that hard to do.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:07 AM

62. Is it still based on 2019 taxes?

Because since then my husband has died. He made 75% of our income and we disqualified for the $600 checks. I didnít need that money before he passed but I sure could use that check today. Sigh.

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Response to OnionPatch (Reply #62)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:17 AM

63. Don't know but they should base it on 2020 also since it is about the pandemic

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Response to JI7 (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:18 AM

73. But those returns haven't been filed yet, and many won't be for months.

So we're stuck using 2019 numbers.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:26 AM

69. Why should the wealthy get stimulus?

I never thought that EVERY American should receive this.

The Wealthy and the Well Off American do not need this for any reason.

I think a bit of perspective on the Every American thing is required in our dialogue. I never took that literally. But I do believe Politicians, Candidates running for office, ought to think through campaign rhetoric and promises.

Be a bit more specific with the jargon and lingo making stuff/ It's all to often unintentionally misleading and a cause for confusion and in some cases leading to unnecessary resentment.




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Response to msfiddlestix (Reply #69)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:20 AM

74. So $50,000 a year is wealthy to you?

Maybe in some parts of the country.

We should use the same income limits used under Trump. To cut more middle-class people out of the next round of checks would be political suicide.

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Response to dawg (Reply #74)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:33 AM

75. No, But ALL AMERICANS ?

Includes Wealthy Americans by implication. I do understand that he said "All Americans", but I never inferred that he meant to include Wealthy Americans. That's not in any way to suggest or imply that $50, 000 a year is a marker of Wealth.

That's the only point I was trying to make.

ETA: Even though $50, 000 a year compared to my less than $12, 000 a year is better well off than I am, I would not suggest or ever consider that income to be included in the Wealthy Class.

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Response to msfiddlestix (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:48 AM

76. No one is seriously proposing that checks go out to all Americans. Here is the issue:

The first two relief checks started phasing out at $75,000 for singles and $150,000 for couples.

Now, after winning the election in part based on supporting more relief for Americans, some Democrats want to lower the limits for the next checks to $50,000 for singles and $100,000 for couples.

That is both bad politics and bad policy.

In return for a rounding error on the national debt, they would leave out many people and families who received checks under Trump, but would now be considered too "rich" to qualify for help under Biden.



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Response to dawg (Reply #74)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:15 PM

78. It's 3X my annual income so I'd consider it up there.

From the perspective of those of us hovering near the poverty line, there's isn't much of a gap between $50k and $75k.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:19 PM

80. Depends where you live,

if you have kids, paid off house, etc. In many situations, 50k doesnít go far at all.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #80)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:28 PM

82. And 16k would even go less in such a situation.

Again, it's a matter of perspective.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #82)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:34 PM

86. True.

16k is a low amount anywhere in this country. 50k you can do ok in some areas but not others.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #86)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:45 PM

91. It took years to adjust to living on SSDI

To cut costs and pay off debt, I'd saved the water from taking a shower to use to flush the toilet. I'd put a stop in the tub drain and then after taking a very quick navy shower, I'd scoop the water out of the tub into a 13 gallon plastic tote. After I flushed the toilet, I'd refill the toilet tank with water from the tote.

Keeping the tstat at 55 was another thing I did to cut costs. Another was most of my dinners consisted of boiled spuds, boiled cabbage and boiled carrots. Milk and soda was a luxury and I rarely ever bought that.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:25 PM

81. In some parts of the country, $50,000 is barely enough to get by.

And even in lower-cost parts of the country, different people have different needs, and the amount of income required to meet their obligations can vary dramatically. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if we had adequate health care and safety net programs, but, alas, we do not.

No one is saying that we shouldn't do more to help those at or near the poverty line. But middle-class people continue to need help too.

It would be foolish to allow ourselves to be painted as being more stingy with the middle-class than the Republicans.

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Response to dawg (Reply #81)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:35 PM

87. But you'd agree with me that one at the poverty line would consider 50k well off?

Regardless of where one lived?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #87)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:43 PM

90. They might perceive it that way, but that woudn't make it right.

The cost of living varies dramatically across the country. And as one moves up the income scale from the poverty line, eligibility for various benefit programs drops off dramatically, leaving some individuals not much better off in terms of actual disposable income.


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Response to dawg (Reply #90)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:58 PM

92. I can see someone making over 100k thinking 50k isn't much.

As for those at the poverty line, much depends on if there are dependents. I used to qualify for $16 a month SNAP benefits even though my income back then was less then 15k. I dropped it as it wasn't much and I felt others needed it more. I do qualify for reduced property tax and home heating credit but that comes out to less then $1k a year which, if added to what I get in SSDI and a vet pension, would put me just over $17k a year.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #92)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 01:05 PM

93. Medical costs can be a huge factor as well.

Somone making $30,000 working for a good employer that provides great medical benefits (and, gulp, dental & retirement) is potentially very much better off than someone making $50,000 as a self-employed person or independent contractor.

Now, put that $50,000 person in Boston and the $30,000 person in rural Georgia, and it isn't even close.

It's foolish to treat people making $50,000 a year as being too rich to need the full relief checks.

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Response to dawg (Reply #93)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 01:23 PM

94. And it's foolish to expect those at the poverty line to have sympathy for those making over 50k

I may if they were scooping the water out of the bathtub after a shower to save to use for flushing the toilet or having their tstat set at 55 degrees in the winter or saving the rinse water from the washing machine to use as wash water for the next load or eating boiled potatoes, cabbage and carrots most every night because it's cheap when on sale and keeps for a long time in the basement or hanging your clothes to dry because using a dryer is too expensive.

If they are doing anything like that and still struggling at 50k, then I'd say they need the full amount.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #94)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 01:40 PM

95. Not so much asking for sympathy so much as understanding.

Many people in the $50,000-$75,000 income range need help, too. And none of us will be better off if the Republicans are able to make it seem like *they* are the party of the middle-class.

FWIW, I'm one of the rich ones who doesn't really need the check. But I've had to hang my clothes out on a makeshift clothesline over the last year. And I don't live in a house with a thermostat. I have to heat with space heaters, and it was 54 degrees in my living room when I got up this morning. Thank God I live in a warm state. (But I *could* and probably will fix all those issues. I'll be the first to admit that I'm one of the fortunate ones.)

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Response to dawg (Reply #95)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 04:11 PM

98. There's always someone worse off - and that's the rub.

This person still has enough money to pay for internet access, which puts them above 23% of America who lacks Broadband access because they're either too poor or live in communities too poor to offer it.

That's the contradiction with the poster's argument. Just because they're worse off than me, or at least make less, does not mean I am living it up and if we apply that logic, they too are better off than a lot of other people in America currently, many of whom don't have a salary. Why not just send stimulus checks out to those who lost their jobs to COVID and end it at that?

As I said to the poster, they'd probably find that we have way more in common in our finances than I do some upper-middle class household - or hell, many middle class households.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 04:06 PM

97. I would wager you have more in common with me than I do comfortably middle class.

If you think I'm up there, well good on you.

I've experienced all levels of working class - from working poor to my current state. They're all very similar in the sense that I barely have any expendable income. The difference between you and I is probably the fact I own a home that I pay a mortgage on and a car. You might not have those two things, you might rent or you may own your home outright or maybe you do pay a mortgage but it's not as high as my mortgage. At the end of the day, though, I don't have money to go on a vacation. I can't even afford to eat out and struggle buying groceries on my current salary. The $600 I received from the government last go around has solely been used as my grocery money because I have my finances completely planned out so that I don't miss my mortgage or car payment (the two bills that take up the most of my check).

The biggest difference also, is that I am paying into my 401K hoping that I have some semblance of a retirement in 30 years.

I could probably skip paying into that and get more bang for my buck now, and frankly, it's something I may have to do, anyway.

I don't live some extravagant life.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 7, 2021, 02:42 PM

114. By choice, a car is not an option for me.

It'd eat up what disposable money I'd have.

Here is a budget of mine:

Income

$1205 SSDI
+$142.29 VA pension
---------
$1347.29 Total

Monthly Expenses

$39.98 Home Phone, cell phone & internet
$100 LP Gas for heating and cooking primary home
$20 Natural Gas for heating and cooking second home
$145 Electricity primary home
$20 Electricity second home
$125 Property taxes and homeowners insurance primary home
$88 Property taxes and homeowners insurance second home
$15 Garbage pickup
$49 Water & sewer primary home
$43 Water & sewer second home
$11.99 Hulu
$9.50 Amazon Prime
$2 Wiki
$5 DU
$200 Food, personal hygiene
$12 Dog food
$10 My medication VA CoPay
$100 Miscellaneous, clothing
-----
$995.47 total expenses

$1347.29
-$995.47
------
$351.82 available for discretionary spending

For comparison, here is a link to my budget that I posted here back in 2013:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1128&pid=1785

Here is a link to a series of posts I made back in 2012 when i was adjusting to living on SSDI:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/11281493


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Response to Kaleva (Reply #114)

Sun Feb 7, 2021, 03:16 PM

115. Like I said, we have far more in common than your original post suggested.

The biggest difference is my car payment and my mortgage. I just was able to refinance my car loan to save $88 a month, which I'm grateful for.

I've had to cut back on a lot since my mom died in December because, despite her not bringing in a lot of money, still had her $800 a month SS check.

If I didn't have a mortgage, I probably would be living comfortably. Unfortunately, I do and there's nothing I can do about that.

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Response to dawg (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 7, 2021, 08:59 AM

113. It's all relative. I could live on $50,000 for 8-10 years

and be able to live and eat well, and travel to nice places, (if I didn't have to work), because I've lived a different kind of lifestyle than most Americans for most of my life.

Not sure if I could live for even a year on $50,000 if I lived in a city, even if I didn't have to work.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:31 PM

84. If this $1,400 is making up the rest of the promised $2,000, then everyone who got $600 should get

the $1,400. Means testing is garbage.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #84)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 12:37 PM

88. I'm okay with means testing, I just think we should use the same limits that were used ...

for the $600. Otherwise, a significant number of people are just going to feel shafted by the Democrats.

I don't really care about the money for myself (although it would be nice ...); I just don't see how we can cut that many people off from receiving relief checks without paying a huge political price.

I don't want to see Republicans back in charge of the House in 2022.

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Response to dawg (Reply #88)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 04:13 PM

99. Agreed. It seems ridiculous that those who were promised $600, and got $600...

...were now also promised $1,400 and may not get it. THAT is not going to make Biden look good. He can jump through hoops trying to explain it away but at the end of the day, it'll be a nightmare for millions of Americans who are expecting the $1,400.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #84)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 05:58 PM

100. The Limits For The First One Seemed Right

Married couples up to $150k AGI got 100%. Phased out, pretty much straight line, at $198k. My wife & I got about $300 between us. (Out of $2,400)
We bought new tires for her car.
So, there at least a bit of stimulative effect.
This current proposal is foolishly low. It prides some help for people in desperate need, but is not likely very stimulative.
They can't get both aid & stimulus if the ceiling is too low.
I don't think means testing is inherently flawed. But, the execution can be terrible. This proposal is such a case.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #100)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 07:45 PM

104. The catch, and I know this sounds like a spiel for top-down economics...

(it is not, BTW, as I still think the bottom should receive more than the top)

But those of a certain income bracket are not likely to use their money to stimulate the economy. It's likely to get caught up on any past bills (credit card debt, power, water, gas, maybe go to a month's rent). The higher earners, from the comfortable middle on up, are far more likely to use their cash to actually stimulate the economy - as you show with your using the stimulus on new tires.

My $600 has been my eat-out and grocery money.

Now that's not to say I won't use the next stimulus on bills. Maybe I'll decide to pay off the credit card balance of one of my credit cards. But that'd erase a monthly payment for me and allow me maybe an extra $50 a month to spend going forward.

Look, I am not going to be wrecked if I don't get the full $1,400. It would be nice, especially right now, and I definitely have been counting on that money, but I understand the people who need it the most should get it. But if we're counting on stimulating the economy, that cut-off ain't going to do it because the people who need it the most aren't likely to turn around and invest it directly into their local economy (unless they're reckless and decide they'd rather have a TV than catch up on some bills).

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #104)

Sun Feb 7, 2021, 08:37 AM

112. Your Second Paragraph Is My Point

The help to those in desperate need and stimulating the economy are separate goals.
If the cap is too low, we only accomplish the former.
To accomplish both, the income limits need to be pushed higher. Like the first time.
I think we're completely agreeing on this!
On Edit: Regarding your parenthetical:
The numbers we're talking about is not promoting "top down" economics. Putting the cap at a half-million could be seen that way. But, $150k as a phase start & $198k as the upper limit is not top down. So, don't worry about that!

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2021, 07:32 PM

103. We all deserve compensation after tRump's criminal negligence

His massive incompetence stole a year from all of our lives. Meanwhile, I never even received the $600.

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