Ryan Says The Poor Will Be Provided Opportunity Through Charities And Churches ----

[TheMastersNemesis]

in his interview that he interrupted. The code is that the tax cuts for the rich will be paid for by the end of the safety net for all practical purposes. And the churches and charities will take up the slack. I guess that includes health care for veterans, the uninsured and seniors.

Addendum ----Bush was determined to establish a "faith based" domestic program system. And the GOP still plans such a scenario. And if you listen and parse Ryans words he is saying that that IS WHAT HE AND ROMNEY WILL DO.

Essentially that means that millions of American will have no services when they cannot make it economically. And it does include our disabled veterans who need the most care. And I cannot believe that the American people are so silent and willing to vote for a party and candidates who have voted twice for a budget that cuts vets care while increasing weapons and the Pentagon with a budget for up to $1 trillion. What are we going to do with all the weapons the military says it does not want?

[Zalatix]

1. The charities and churches are already overwhelmed.

[LadyHawkAZ]

11. Indeed. I wonder why that is.

[Zalatix]

14. Ain't that the damned truth.

[DonCoquixote]

27. where the Hell is that first church

the one that looks split like a wedding cake. Let me guess,it's a Mormon one?

[LadyHawkAZ]

29. 1 is the San Diego LDS Temple

2 is Oakland LDS Temple
3 is Dallas First Baptist, actually the artists' mock-up, currently under construction.
4 is Solid Rock Church, Monroe, Ohio
5 is the Crystal Cathedral, L.A.

[DonCoquixote]

30. I knew it

Last edited Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

LDS churches are known for that mock gothic, pointy edges architecture that makes them looklike something from the land of Oz.

[LadyHawkAZ]

33. Ah, the spires...

I'm not sure how to phrase this to avoid getting the post hidden, but I strongly suspect it's a Freudian expression of, um, issues with their, er, to quote Elder Packer, "little factories". Here's their office building on Temple Square; once you see it, it can never be unseen:



And I walk by that once a day. Do you have any IDEA how hard it is to keep a straight face? And the only building that is not crowned by upstanding pointy objects looks like this:



Do the math there.

[DonCoquixote]

47. Yeah..But the ornaments

On Mormon building often make them look like the Wizard of OZ built them. By the big templein Washington, someone put up a sign that said "surrender dorothy."

[LadyHawkAZ]

52. If you painted the newer ones green

they would indeed look like the Emerald City. I remember seeing pictures of the "Surrender Dorothy" painted on the overpass- funny.

They're quite lovely buildings, as are the ones here in SLC, but all I can see is 1) the billions in extorted tithes and 2) a giant waste of that money and 3) the crowds gathered around St. Vincents homeless shelter downtown and panhandling at every entrance to Temple Square and 4) the lost property taxes. After that the buildings aren't quite so pretty or contemplative anymore.

[Fla Dem]

44. No, Planet Kolob. n/t

[Initech]

37. My boss worked on #1. Said that building is like a palace.

[Initech]

35. George Carlin was right - "God is all knowing, all powerful, but he just can't handle money!!!"

[viguy007]

66. I find this very sad, they don't remember so much of what he said.

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give. Get you no gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses; no wallet for your journey, neither two coats, nor shoes, nor staff: for the laborer is worthy of his food.
(Matthew 10 : 7-10)

[LadyHawkAZ]

67. I suspect they remember just fine, and choose to ignore it. n/t

[ananda]

18. But even worse..

.. there are many charities and churches that missionize
with a colonialist mindset.

Many poor people would have to meet their "conditions" first,
and that can be very degrading and spiritbreaking.

[Zalatix]

2. The Rich Are Less Charitable Than the Middle Class: Study

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48725147/The_Rich_Are_Less_Charitable_Than_the_Middle_Class_Study

A new study shows that middle-class Americans give a larger share of their income to charity than the wealthy.

The study, conducted by the Chronicle of Philanthropy using tax-deduction data from the Internal Revenue Service, showed that households earning between $50,000 and $75,000 year give an average of 7.6 percent of their discretionary income to charity.

That compares to 4.2 percent for people who make $100,000 or more. In some of the wealthiest neighborhoods, with a large share of people making $200,000 or more a year, the average giving rate was 2.8 percent.

[sad sally]

43. And if Mr. Mittens successfully steals the presidency and changes the itemized deduction "bucket,"

you can bet the rich who do give to charities to reduce their tax obligations will give even less.

[jmowreader]

46. He will probably keep that deduction

Romney's running a "what's in it for me?" campaign focused on eliminating his own tax burden. (Cain did the same thing w/his pizza-sale tax plan.) The charitable deduction knocks ten percent off his taxable income. He won't give that up.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Despicable

A medieval philosophy. A disaster.

[aletier_v]

4. "I guess that includes health care for veterans, the uninsured and seniors"

Yes, all 60 million of them.

No problemo.

[gkhouston]

5. Here's the thing: either you think we should help the poor or you don't.

If you don't, you wouldn't want anyone helping the poor, including charities/churches. If you do, there's no reason for government not to do the job.

[exboyfil]

6. I hope someone at the debate asks Ryan

about familial responsibility laws. That will be the states' alternative if nursing home Medicaid is slashed.

[TheMastersNemesis]

7. Here Is What Americans Do Not Get About Medicaid

The GOP wants to end the federal mandate on Medicaid. That opens up 50 states to pass their own laws. In the past the family was forced to pony up money to pay for care. In the new reality if you are the offspring of a parent in a nursing home the state or creditors can come after the assets of the family through wage garnishment, liens and other means. They can take the children's property to pay the nursing home bill.

Presently the "federal mandate" only allows the state or creditors to go after the assets of the individual in the nursing home.

[exboyfil]

9. Very good description

It is amazing that the topic has not come up yet (Rachel are you listening?).

[vankuria]

57. This would bankrupt families

My Mom spent 2 yrs. in a nursing home and her stay was financed with her Social Security, pension and the rest was paid for with Medicaid to the tune of 6 grand a month. I couldn't imagine the state liquidating her families assets to pay for her care, that alone would have killed her. And what happens when the families assets are depleted do they throw the person out in the streets? What happens if someone doesn't have family and needs nursing home care?

[TheMastersNemesis]

62. Before Medicaid Grandma Might Be Left At A Train Or Bus Station.

[vankuria]

64. Well let's make sure we don't go back to that!

Not sure how to take your post but we've come way to far in taking care of our elderly and disabled to ever go back to that. As a compassionate and civil society we owe the less fortunate a safety net to assist them.

[Zambero]

8. Ah Paul, your Auntie Ayn would have been so proud!

Even though she would dismiss your reference to churches and charities, because she knows that was all B.S. Cut loose from a safety net, social Darwinism would then work its magic on the poor. Fortunately for her, Ayn Rand was an atheist and had no fear whatsoever of eternal damnation. Unfortunately for you, your own church does not provide you with that luxury. In short Paul, GO TO HELL!

[demgrrrll]

10. I am a retired social worker and I have obviously contacted churches to assist my clients over

course of 36 years in practice. Yes charities will help from time to time, but if they do not have money or food they will just tell you we have no money or food and that is that. There is no requirement or obligation for them to assist anyone. It is a pipe dream, a way to assuage any feelings that they might have about people going hungry. I will tell you this, people have a strong survival instinct and if they are cut off from food and resources honest decent people will do what they have to do to survive. I was talking to my mom and I said people will just go into the grocery stores and start ripping open packages and eating in the aisles.

[moondust]

15. Thank you.

"...no requirement or obligation..." means a lot of desperate people going hungry when times are tough and donations dry up. It's hard to believe somebody who claims to be sane and sober would waste time even talking about such nonsense.

[jsr]

12. While Paul Ryan collects a big fat government pension with lifetime benefits

[OldDem2012]

13. He has no freaking clue. He's either dumber than a box of rocks or just doesn't care. nt.

[arely staircase]

16. actually he said he would suck out their brains with straws, sell the widows and orphans

and go into south american zinc.

[We People]

59. He may as well with policies like these

He apparently has no clue what people go through. And if he did, would he even care?

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Excellent rebuttal to this idea:

"Again: it isn't that conservatives advocate a plan to feed the hungry that I ideologically disapprove of. It's not like they say, let's accomplish the goal this way, with private industry. It's that they advocate not having a full solution, and therefore NOT feeding the hungry. One must conclude that right-wing pseudo-Christians are not just against "big government," they are against the goals of these 'big government" programs – helping "the least of these.'"

http://www.right-wing-pseudo-christians.com/matthew-25.htm

[madokie]

19. So I'm going to be discriminated against because I'm non religious

whose god should I pray too today I ask?
None of the many will I

[PD Turk]

20. Wait a minute

I'm confused.

I thought with all their big tax cuts for the rich, the result would be that we'd all be provided opportunity by the "job creators", no?

[porphyrian]

21. Paul Ryan says a lot of shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021369933

[Marrah_G]

22. He is an idiot

1) Charities, religious or not are stretched to the breaking point

2) more people being in need of charity, means less people have money to give.

[spanone]

23. bullshit ryan.

[newspeak]

25. actually knows that his trickle on randian super wealthy "friends"

have a hard time donating to those they think are losers (and that includes the working poor that they exploit) and deserve to be fodder. even some of the wealthy will turn their back on their own when that person is down and out. I proudly pay taxes, not for an inflated MIC, but to help fellow americans who have been devastated from this sociopath's party.

why should anyone be forced to go to a church and beg for food? and, after the fiasco in india after the great tsunami where some of our less than sterling missionaries attempted to bribe the indians with food and water if they convert, I can see the same yo-yos doing that crap to americans.

[TheMastersNemesis]

24. The Bottom Line Is That Fundy Churches Have No Interest In Filling The Gap Left By Cuts Into ----

domestic services. It would cut too much into their profits. They are actually businesses with Jesus for sale. That is all they are.
The leaders of these mega churches have mansions, jets, and spin off businesses just about everywhere. Pat Robertson is a billionaire and Ostein is a multimillionaire. They are all personal empires and have nothing to do with faith. Look at all these wealthy churches. Their churches alone cost millions. And the Televangelists have 24/7 fund raising operations. They will even do miracles for $.

It is all so sick and phony. They want tax dollar subsidies to bolster their profits and not to fill the poverty gap.

[Ikonoklast]

28. Meh. That guy in Rome who dresses funny has his own COUNTRY.

The wealth of the RCC is stupendous.

The artwork alone that they own is worth more than some small nations.

Yet there are millions of hungry in their parishes throughout the world.


They all overlook what that Jesus guy told the Wealthy Young Man...

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 23 But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.

Luke 18:22–23

[madrchsod]

26. i`m sure the charities and churches are really thrilled with this bull shit

they can not provide for today`s neediest let alone tens of millions more tomorrow

[DryHump]

31. Trickle down...

...as applied to charity. Uh-huh, that'll work.

[nc4bo]

32. But his boss said he will cut the amount of deductions one can take for charitable donations

Now is it Ryan?

We really need to call him out more often on HIS bullshit along with Romney's.

[Buns_of_Fire]

34. "What? Are there no workhouses?"

[reformist2]

36. Truly stupid, and frightening. Ryan doesn't know history. The churches were/are in favor of gov't!

[Johonny]

38. I enjoy the part where the guy asks him how tax cuts help with that

Ryan doesn't plan on the poor getting relief through charity. Ryan isn't planning to pour tax dollars into charities, he isn't planning to do anything. He pretends that you will magically plan through societal organization outside of government. His argument is we don't need government to organize for us. The question begs why have a government at all in Ryan's world... which of course Ryan as an Ayn Rand follower agrees completely. In magic Ryan world we organize through societal institutions like corporations that we have no voting power or say in what will happen to us. This is the "better" way of organizing society. It is certainly better for the few on top. The rest are likely going to be left on our own. It's a society that doesn't work, and has never worked, but they believe it will fantastically work this time.

[hifiguy]

39. Hey dimbulb! Yeah, I'm talking to you, Ryan.

The reason all of these government programs are in place is primarily because "private charity" couldn't begin to handle the demand for its services and never will be able to. A decent society does not let elderly people starve and freeze in their apartments or little kids go without a couple of decent meals each day. A decent society cares about and helps those who have been left behind, discarded, or been subject to misfortune.

Not that I expect you to care one dried monkey turd about those people, but then you are a cruel, benighted, brass-plated four-door asshole.

[Danmel]

40. Yeah, our neighborhood temple is set up

to pay for cat scans, chemo, bone marrow transplants. Gotta sell a lot of rugaleach.

[Earth_First]

41. So much for a choice of separation of church from one's personal life...

How about one who feels uncomfortable with religious charity?

[Skidmore]

42. One of the economists appearing on "On Point" with Tom Ashbrook on NPR this morning shot that one

down handily by pointing out that the money just isn't there for people to do this. I was listening in the car and don't know the guys name but he had really looked into this. The President's people need to dig this out and have a listen and VP Biden needs to address this head on.

Also, the notion that if you are low income and/or residing in an urban setting, you have some sort of moral shortcoming needs to be really shot down. Rachel talked to the nun with the bus about this last night. Very cogent and well thought out response by this woman.

[Fla Dem]

45. If the Christ of feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc, ever came back and saw these behemoths....

he would weep.

[DonCoquixote]

48. No we would not

He would take a whip and tell these bastards to "get out of my father's house."

[Fla Dem]

50. Yes, well that too. n/t

[City Lights]

49. Pathetic.

Where would he be if he had to depend on churches and charities to fund his college education? Farking asswipe.

[Blue Idaho]

51. That's not what his idol Ayn Rand said...

She said fuck the poor let them die - and truth be told Lyin Ryan agrees with her.

[HockeyMom]

53. Volunteer Position for a Christian Group Home

for the developmentally disabled, i.e., work for FREE. This is what they want. I've worked 15 years for WAGES in this field. LOW wages, but wages nonetheless. No, thank you. While I really care for this population, I will not care for them for FREE; push wheelchairs, lift, bathe, give meds, feed, cook, etc, for FREE 8 hours a day.

[catbyte]

54. If churches & charities were so adequate, how did Social Security &

Medicare become law? Ryan is a Randian dumbass with no sense of history--or compassion.

BTW, Ryan's weenie, whiny, reedy little voice is REALLY getting on my last nerve. If they actually manage to steal this election, I will have to avoid all news media just to escape Ryan's voice and Romney's creepy, rictus-like, smarmy, creepy, smirky smile/grin/laugh. I'm barely able to hang on now!



{{{{Shudder}}}}

[gkhouston]

55. I've got a better idea: let the rich rely on charities and churches for their "tax cuts". n/t

[Bucky]

56. Maybe they could sell pencils

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. O Rly? I see how the overwhelming opportunities have completely freed Skid Row LA denizens

from that horrible life and installed them in skyscraper penthouses, one and all.



My best love to Catholic Workers LA and others working full-time to make a difference because the calloused rich either don't care, or are working hard to force out the poor so they can gentrify.

[sarcasmo]

60. The church won't pay the bills. Imgaine the tent cities that will be created with these douche bags

running the country.

[We People]

61. Intended or not, it's part of the Dystopia they're peddling...

fits right in with widespread bankruptcies and crushing poverty, endless wars, crumbling infrastructure, more abandoned cities, privatization of everything, rampant crime, implosion of our educational systems, medical epidemics and communicable diseases out of control...

The portion of the 99% who were duped into voting for these vultures just THINK they'll be raptured from the Armageddon they'll be living in...

[Zorra]

63. Lyin' Ryan. Because they do it so well in Third World countries, right? NOT.

That has never happened before, and it ain't never gonna happen.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

65. Unless, of course...

Some friggin' dumbass of a President comes along and limits itemized deductions to $20,000 -- which would mean that most home owners would get zero tax benefit from contributions -- and that would further shrink the amount of charitable giving and cripple those organizations who are staggering under an avalanche of unmet needs already.

Yeah., brilliant plan. Asshole.