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trailmonkee

(2,681 posts)
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:37 PM Oct 2012

How can you call someone a Liar when he's standing right next to you?

Obama is going to have to do that at the next debate, but I cant imaging how he is going to pull it off?

I imagined myself, standing in my bosses office next to the guy competing for my job... this guy has lied his way up to the point that everybody at the company believes him to be talented and credible... How do I call him a liar without losing credibility myself?

I personally wouldn't have a clue what to say.... Obama has a tough task ahead... so does Biden. I know they will show themselves

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How can you call someone a Liar when he's standing right next to you? (Original Post) trailmonkee Oct 2012 OP
How can you NOT do so when he is standing next to you. BlueStreak Oct 2012 #1
You lean into it saying: "That doesn't square with my understanding of the evidence" HereSince1628 Oct 2012 #2
+1 That's a good way to say it; first of all, you MUST "lean into it" at EVERY opportunity. nt patrice Oct 2012 #11
I would leave out the "my understanding" part. Tennessee Gal Oct 2012 #17
I suppose that comes down to whether or not it is a "polite" circumstance. HereSince1628 Oct 2012 #19
"Polite" is not a word I would use to describe Mitt Romney ever. Tennessee Gal Oct 2012 #35
Willard called Obama a liar at the last debate Doctor_J Oct 2012 #3
he did this and pathological liar still lied Generic Other Oct 2012 #16
Liars tend to talk faster. LiberalFighter Oct 2012 #22
Here is a way he can do it. Romney says a lie. Obama turns to him and says southernyankeebelle Oct 2012 #4
Debate rules do not allow that kind of back and forth. BlueStreak Oct 2012 #25
I like that also. southernyankeebelle Oct 2012 #40
That is too long. The response needs to be crisp and to the point. nt bluestate10 Oct 2012 #39
Well I am just throwing it out there. He can look at it and do it his own way. southernyankeebelle Oct 2012 #41
Biden has an easy task. Romney won't be there. scheming daemons Oct 2012 #5
I've done it several times but only when I knew I was right. Jazzgirl Oct 2012 #6
You.... sir... are a LIAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!!! jsmirman Oct 2012 #9
"There's something wrong with what my opponent has just said." "That could only be true if you ___." patrice Oct 2012 #7
turn to him and say, "What did you do with the other Mitt Romney who said..." WI_DEM Oct 2012 #8
Yes, like that ! I think it will be more addressing the flip-flops. Can they have notes? Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #13
Instead of saying the word "liar", just use the word "dishonest". phleshdef Oct 2012 #10
or "Insulting the intelligence of Americans" BlueStreak Oct 2012 #26
Obama can say "You're so full of shit..." berni_mccoy Oct 2012 #12
funny. Liz Winstead from Daily Show was on TV and she said she has fantasies Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #14
that'll do it! trailmonkee Oct 2012 #23
with the tall hat. LOVE IT Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #46
A la seinfeld's George: "Sewer just called, wants their poop back" Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #15
You say, "That's a lie and you know it." HopeHoops Oct 2012 #18
Obama: "If you think dancing around the facts will win you a prize, you're on the wrong stage" Donkees Oct 2012 #20
zing! i like it trailmonkee Oct 2012 #24
Just smile knowingly, giggle, and point at Mitt's zipper, and yell, "Pants on fire!" leveymg Oct 2012 #21
He could say, "there you go again". Waiting For Everyman Oct 2012 #27
come on, you say something like, "for the last year plus you have been saying the exact opposite. still_one Oct 2012 #28
Ask this: grasswire Oct 2012 #29
You don't. countryjake Oct 2012 #30
Bingo. You cut the tax rate by 20% across the board. The current tax revenue is $2,500,000,000/yr Vincardog Oct 2012 #33
I could and I would.... you can say anyting with a smile on your face and a nice tone to your NotThisTime Oct 2012 #31
with a smile on your face mitchtv Oct 2012 #32
perfect.... trailmonkee Oct 2012 #49
quote romney's numerous positions on the same subject & let folks figure it out for themselves spanone Oct 2012 #34
Like this... KurtNYC Oct 2012 #36
Just looking at him helped trailmonkee Oct 2012 #45
Responding to each 'lie' would take too much time-would be like "whack-a-mole" DianaForRussFeingold Oct 2012 #37
"Untrue" and "incorrect" are powerful words when backed up by facts. bluestate10 Oct 2012 #38
They should though. Take a page out of Tweety's book. Tweety Cleita Oct 2012 #42
You say "nobody believes that"....as a response to a lie. Tikki Oct 2012 #43
At least half of DU will tell you how. lunatica Oct 2012 #44
because it's a matter of lives and deaths... Whisp Oct 2012 #47
Ask the liars if they are familiar with youtube and then direct viewers to AtomicKitten Oct 2012 #48
 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
1. How can you NOT do so when he is standing next to you.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:41 PM
Oct 2012

That is exactly the time that you MUST respond. You don't have to be ugly about that. It can be very effective to turn to him and say "Governor Romney, that is not true and you know it." Then turn to the camera/audience and succinctly explain why it is untrue and then conclude by how the issue directly affects the audience.

It couldn't be easier. But this is just not in Obama's nature.

Reagan was great about it. "There you go again."

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
2. You lean into it saying: "That doesn't square with my understanding of the evidence"
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:42 PM
Oct 2012

"Are you familiar with ____________________ (fill in referenced statement), are you saying __________ is completely wrong?"



Tennessee Gal

(6,160 posts)
17. I would leave out the "my understanding" part.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:02 PM
Oct 2012

I would straight out say: "That doesn't square with the evidence."

And I would straight out say: "Are you saying the report/statement from _____________________ contains false information?"

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
19. I suppose that comes down to whether or not it is a "polite" circumstance.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:04 PM
Oct 2012

I really don't disagree with you.

Tennessee Gal

(6,160 posts)
35. "Polite" is not a word I would use to describe Mitt Romney ever.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:51 PM
Oct 2012

A debate should be a polite circumstance, but Romney disregarded that in spades.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
3. Willard called Obama a liar at the last debate
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:44 PM
Oct 2012

If the president just picks off one single lie and walks it through, that should stem the tide. After Willard lied about increasing the deficit $5T last time, Obama should have said, "Just yesterday your side kick said that you want 20% across-the-board cuts, which every economist in the country says will add 5 trillion to the deficit. Now you deny it. Which of you should we believe?"

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
16. he did this and pathological liar still lied
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:00 PM
Oct 2012

that is the problem with liars. They are quick to spin new lies. Impossible to get them to stop. I think you need to stand your ground. Repeat that they need to take one position and stick to it. That being president is not like being a used car salesman.

Hammer him on the fact he never created a job, just exported them. Slam him with the poll number difference in Massachusetts. 30 point spread? So those who know the real man don't want to vote for him. Why?

The leopard can't change his stripes. The only time you should write in your notes is to keep score of the lies and make sure you tell us how many you count by the end of the debate.
Remind us that he is beholden to tea party's extreme policies. That he works for the 1% not the 99%. Occupy the debate, Mr. President. Blast him out of the water!

LiberalFighter

(50,495 posts)
22. Liars tend to talk faster.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:13 PM
Oct 2012

It's like they are trying to say it fast enough so their pants don't catch fire.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
4. Here is a way he can do it. Romney says a lie. Obama turns to him and says
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:46 PM
Oct 2012

well Mr Romney on (lets pretend) Jan 1, 2012 you said such in such (then quote exactly what he said) and now tonite you are changing your mind. If Romney says that's not true then Obama can come back and say well I have it on my website and if people are interested to see it they can go and view what you said and I have not editted it in any way. Use dates and times on him and what he said. He doesn't have to come out and call him a liar. Just show him the facts.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
25. Debate rules do not allow that kind of back and forth.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:31 PM
Oct 2012

Consequently you can't count on being able to confront every lie as soon as it is spoken.

Also the reality is that it takes Obama 100 times as long to discuss the lie as it takes Romney to make the lie. You can never keep up with every lie in a debate like this, so you have to pick your spots.

What is important is that you do it enough times during the debate that:

1) The audience starts to feel the pattern

2) The opponent starts to feel some consequences from arguing lies.

When you get the floor, you can start with "Wow, there are so many claims there I hardly know where to begin. Governor Romney said xxxx. (turning to face Romney directly). Governor Romney, you know this isn't true, but your campaign continues to say this over and over. (turning back to the audience) Let me set the record straight. here are the facts ... And here is how this issue affects you."

It is vitally important a) to confront Romney directly, eye to eye, and b) to end up by explaining how the issue affects the average person.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
9. You.... sir... are a LIAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!!!
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:49 PM
Oct 2012

or you just point out how they are lying and avoid using the word "liar."

This is not like figuring out how to land Curiosity, for God's sake.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
7. "There's something wrong with what my opponent has just said." "That could only be true if you ___."
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:48 PM
Oct 2012

"My opponent just said ____________ , but _ _ _ _ _ _ _"

"This logic does not work, because ________________."

"The truth is that there are many different perspectives on _________________ , but some points of view are more reliable than others, because they include things that my opponent excludes" then go on to show how one's own point of view includes aspects of other competing points of view and your opponent's point of view excludes those same traits.

WI_DEM

(33,497 posts)
8. turn to him and say, "What did you do with the other Mitt Romney who said..."
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:48 PM
Oct 2012

try and do it with humor but get your point across.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
13. Yes, like that ! I think it will be more addressing the flip-flops. Can they have notes?
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:53 PM
Oct 2012

I know they have paper. Maybe Obama can pick the top flip-flops and memorize when he said each.

It will help to have the specific date and source (which people can look up and pins him down) rather than just saying he said something.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
10. Instead of saying the word "liar", just use the word "dishonest".
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:49 PM
Oct 2012

I think thats perfectly acceptable, especially when such a charge is easily proven.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
26. or "Insulting the intelligence of Americans"
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:33 PM
Oct 2012

This puts you on the same side as Americans and isolates Romney. That is particularly effective because people already know the disdain Romney has for the average American.

 

berni_mccoy

(23,018 posts)
12. Obama can say "You're so full of shit..."
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:51 PM
Oct 2012

"the toilet is jealous."

-or-

"You're so full of shit if I gave you a laxative, you'd disappear."

-or-

"I thought you just had bad breath until I realized you were full of shit"

I got a million of these.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
14. funny. Liz Winstead from Daily Show was on TV and she said she has fantasies
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:55 PM
Oct 2012

of Obama, just for the hell of it, showing up in a bright red suit

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
21. Just smile knowingly, giggle, and point at Mitt's zipper, and yell, "Pants on fire!"
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:11 PM
Oct 2012

He should try it. Nobody will remember Barack ever being dour and overly serious. Really!

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
27. He could say, "there you go again".
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:34 PM
Oct 2012

As long as he defines it as what he says about a lie, by referring to the second one that way. It's like saying "ditto" after that.

still_one

(91,946 posts)
28. come on, you say something like, "for the last year plus you have been saying the exact opposite.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:35 PM
Oct 2012

Now you want us to believe this is the real you? why would we believe that. You have been all over the board, and ether you are inherently dishonest, or you don't have a position on anything"


grasswire

(50,130 posts)
29. Ask this:
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:37 PM
Oct 2012

"Governor Romney, is this what you believe today? On the Seinfeld TV show, they said 'It's not a lie if you believe it'. Is this what you believe today?"

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
30. You don't.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:39 PM
Oct 2012

You don't get any points with an argument that resorts to throwing personal barbs at your opponent. But you must pick apart flawed statements; you have to show the error of your opponent's argument, why what they say is NOT logical and is NOT supported by fact.

Using a bunch of facts, alone, often won't win many points in any debate, either, unless you pair them right along with the erroneous argument that the other side has presented. Demonstrate the lie rather than attacking the liar.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
33. Bingo. You cut the tax rate by 20% across the board. The current tax revenue is $2,500,000,000/yr
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:48 PM
Oct 2012

20% of $2.5T is $500 Million X 10 years is $5T. Plus you want to add $2T to the military.
That is a total of $7T. Facts don't lie.

NotThisTime

(3,657 posts)
31. I could and I would.... you can say anyting with a smile on your face and a nice tone to your
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:42 PM
Oct 2012

voice, and that's actually how he should play it...

DianaForRussFeingold

(2,552 posts)
37. Responding to each 'lie' would take too much time-would be like "whack-a-mole"
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:04 PM
Oct 2012

Last edited Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)


edited to add...
"Spouting so many half-truths and outright lies one after the other, it was impossible to keep up with it"

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
38. "Untrue" and "incorrect" are powerful words when backed up by facts.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:09 PM
Oct 2012

President Obama must use that word every time Romney tells a lie then immediately explain why Romney told a lie to viewers. Once he has established that Romney lied, the President needs to pivot to what his real policy is. The President can't be unprepared for the debate and fail to respond in real time to Romney's lies again. I really don't give a shit about rallies in front of adoring supporters, the President needs to kick the shit out of Romney standing a few feet away from that asshole.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
42. They should though. Take a page out of Tweety's book. Tweety
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:51 PM
Oct 2012

doesn't have a problem with it when he's being lied to.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
47. because it's a matter of lives and deaths...
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 07:54 PM
Oct 2012

maybe not in your job but in Obama's case yes.

he knows the score and what's at stake.

and he has his ways.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
48. Ask the liars if they are familiar with youtube and then direct viewers to
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 08:07 PM
Oct 2012

the O campaign website so they can take a look for themselves.

Hearing the lies from the horse's mouth is gold, baby. Gold.

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