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Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:04 AM

If you're demanding Schumer "better not cave!" or insisting "he needs to grow a spine!" please know

Chuck Schumer - or any Congressional leader, for that matter - doesn't operate in a vacuum. He's not, on his own, figuring out how the Democrats can best position themselves, singlehandedly deciding how to proceed, and then negotiating with McConnell all alone while all of the other Democrats sit in their offices hoping he'll get it right and waiting helplessly to see what he comes out with.

Schumer is working closely with his caucus to determine what they think is best and developing strategies for achieving it. He and the Senate leadership talk to the Democratic Caucus every day, sometimes several times a day. They meet as a group at least once a week, have regular conference calls, and talk one-on-one and in small groups on and off the Senate floor, in the cloakroom, in the hallways, in their "hideaways," and in their offices daily.

When Schumer takes an approach, it's not because he alone decided it. He takes an approach that his Democratic colleagues, as a body, determined is the best plan. He's the Majority Leader, not the Majority Monarch.

So, demanding that Schumer do or not do something is not just pointless (and not just because he's not listening to us raging on an online message board ...), It's anti-factual. Assuming that he's "caving" or letting down other Democrats if he takes an approach that people on DU think is not aggressive enough is not based on reality.

Chuck Schumer isn't weak and he isn't winging it. He's doing exactly what his caucus elected him to do and he's obviously doing it well enough for them to overwhelmingly want him to keep doing it.

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply If you're demanding Schumer "better not cave!" or insisting "he needs to grow a spine!" please know (Original post)
StarfishSaver Jan 23 OP
SheltieLover Jan 23 #1
cilla4progress Jan 23 #2
Hoyt Jan 23 #3
servermsh Jan 23 #4
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #5
servermsh Jan 23 #7
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #10
lamp_shade Jan 23 #12
stopdiggin Jan 23 #19
Salviati Jan 23 #8
betsuni Jan 23 #6
sheshe2 Jan 23 #9
Hekate Jan 23 #15
KPN Jan 23 #11
Hekate Jan 23 #13
bluestateboomer Jan 23 #14
Hekate Jan 23 #17
bluestateboomer Jan 23 #22
Demsrule86 Jan 23 #37
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #24
Gore1FL Jan 23 #16
Skittles Jan 23 #18
Hortensis Jan 23 #35
orleans Jan 23 #20
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #25
PatrickforO Jan 23 #21
Thekaspervote Jan 23 #23
dansolo Jan 23 #29
Demsrule86 Jan 23 #33
DeminPennswoods Jan 23 #26
Maxheader Jan 23 #27
KayF Jan 23 #28
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #30
Demsrule86 Jan 23 #34
LTG Jan 23 #31
StarfishSaver Jan 23 #32
MineralMan Jan 23 #36

Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:05 AM

1. Joe needs appointees confirmed first

Ty!!!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:09 AM

2. No, but -

you are!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:10 AM

3. He's who we have right now, so I'm supporting Schumer and his advisers.

They’ll do their best in a complicated situation.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:12 AM

4. Can't Democrats use a version of the "nuclear option"?

Couldn't Schumer, at any time, exercise the "nuclear option" (calling for a vote to appeal a ruling of the chair and vote to override it using a majority vote)?

I'd assume they could use this technique to break the filibuster on the organizing resolution, but leave the filibuster in place as is for legislation.

Schumer says McConnell will not get what he's asking for, but so far he has not described the strategy.

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Response to servermsh (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:14 AM

5. That's one option. But why should Schumer publicly discuss his strategy?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:21 AM

7. It should have already been done.

If the parties were reversed McConnell would have exercised this option at about 5:00 PM on January 20th. And the press would have praised him for being so strong and strategic.

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Response to servermsh (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:31 AM

10. I don't think you understand how the Senate works

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 01:58 AM

12. That's pretty clear. Thanks.

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Response to servermsh (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:24 AM

19. to perfectly illustrate the point the OP was TRYING to get across ... (nt)

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Response to servermsh (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:24 AM

8. Schumer can't by himself exercise that option.

He would need the support of all 50 democratic Senators and the VP, which it's understood that he doesn't have at this point. So if you want to be upset at someone for not using that stratagy, then you should probably be upset at Joe Manchin, Dianne Feinstein, and Kyrsten Sinema, amongst likely a few others. Though from what Schumer has said, it would suggest that they may not have ruled it out entirely if the republicans go full obstructionist.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/534527-senate-democrats-leery-of-nixing-filibuster

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:20 AM

6. K&R

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:28 AM

9. I have a OP up as well.

Here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214990690#top

This is a response I got. Perfect fit.

You MUST listen to this, must listen. This is not just John's song, it is the dialog.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214990690#post7

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:05 AM

15. Saw your OP earlier & yes this was a perfect response

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 12:40 AM

11. Well duh.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:00 AM

13. Thanks, Starfish

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:02 AM

14. A couple of thoughts.

One, yes Schumer is a politician and he will be communicating to his caucus about their strengths and weaknesses in each situation, but it is also important for him hear then people's opinion. Much of his strength will derive from popular support. Maybe we don't need to yell about "caving", but we need to keep speaking up.

Two, In comparison, how do you think McConnell would be operating in the same situation?

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Response to bluestateboomer (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:11 AM

17. In comparison I don't think McConnell gives a rat's ass what the little people think except...

...when it’s time to collect their votes in Kentucky, as he has demonstrated abundantly over the years. He has a plan & the long view, and he does not deviate from it. He musters the votes from his side of the aisle —all of them — and he gets done what he wants to get done.

We could learn a thing or two from that, and one is to take the long view and the other is to keep all our votes together and back our leaders.



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Response to Hekate (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:26 AM

22. Exactly!

N/T

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Response to Hekate (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 11:25 AM

37. I agree. I hope after what happened in 10 and 14 when some abandoned pres Obama, the

the practice of message voting which destroyed our ability to advance policy and cost us a SCOTUS nominee never happens again. Also, those who voted third party in 16 cost us fecent healthcare, fair taxation our economy and 400,000 + Americans their lives.

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Response to bluestateboomer (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 04:06 AM

24. There's a difference between speaking up and constantly attacking

Last edited Sat Jan 23, 2021, 08:42 AM - Edit history (1)

And I don't care what McConnell would do in this situation. He shouldn't be our guide for how to behave.

Too many Democrats spend a lot of time complaining about Republicans' behavior but then get furious when Democrats don't do the same things Turns out they don't really have any problem with those tactics - they just want it to be Democrats engaging in them.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:06 AM

16. As one normally critical, I have to congratulate Schumer on his spine thus far. nt

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:18 AM

18. we're going by previous experience

we always get the three-dimensional chess explanation; in the meantime, repukes seem to have way more power than they should

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Response to Skittles (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 10:06 AM

35. The previous experience we all need to go by is our own performance.

Everything in government starts with and ends with the electorate.

That three-dimensional chess comparison vastly understates reality. Very few know enough to evaluate their performance, even if important information wasn't always necessarily kept secret. Soaking up the interpretations of the influencers who snow us with blizzards of agitprop, disinfo and inevitably partial, simplified truths produces fools. And sharing the product of groupthink ignorance and dishonesty as wisdom amounts to clueless chicanery by fools.

Being smart enough to at least avoid that begins with realizing and respecting one's own ignorance. Humility. It also helps to admit that they're usually working with less than they need, often tragically less, thanks to our failure to do our job better. "I want" is not "I've done my part."

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:25 AM

20. i understand what you're saying

and, for the record, i haven't been "raging"; i haven't said a word about him

however, while i can't remember what he had done (and i mean what he did not do) i do remember that i was furious and terribly disappointed by him and his inaction.

that was my take-away and has been my silent opinion of him ever since.

so now i sit here, watching and waiting to see what he does this time

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Response to orleans (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 04:11 AM

25. A lot of the anger about "inaction" is completely misplaced - and usually based on

a misunderstanding of Senate rules and the options actually available to Democrats, incorrect assumptions and a strange belief that Democrats should telegraph their every plan in advance and constantly and failure to do so means they don't have one and aren't doing anything.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 02:25 AM

21. Agreed. Democrats have been in power what? Three whole days.

Lots to do, and only 24 hours in a day.

We are seeing plenty of action from them. We need to get Biden's cabinet confirmed, and with the absolute bombshells that came out today, the guy on the phone in the window on Jan. 6 (I'm just sure it was Gosar, the traitor!), and the Trump trying to do a Sunday Night Massacre in the Justice Department - February 9 give everyone plenty of time to assemble more evidence.

I think Biden is doing great, and so are the Democrats in the Senate and House.

Again, lots to do. Let's all back their play. We won't always get our way, but we'll get a heck of a lot further if we stick together.
This is the DU member formerly known as PatrickforO.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 03:21 AM

23. ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 08:05 AM

29. And people forget we only just got the majority days ago

Personally, I think that the "nuclear option" should be used, because the rules should not be subject to the filibuster. The minority should not be allowed to hold up the transfer of power when the majority changes.

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Response to dansolo (Reply #29)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 10:03 AM

33. The senate is 50 50 and that is the issue. One more senator would end this GOP BS.

But it is what it is, and Mconnell has nothing to lose with his obstruction. And all GOP types are waiting with bated breath for us to turn on our own as we have done before.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 07:18 AM

26. Thanks for the needed dose of reality, Starfishsaver,

based on your experience and knowledge.
This is the DU member formerly known as DeminPennswoods.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 07:42 AM

27. There's stuff to keep....

And stuff to throw out from the last 4 years....Givem time,

They'll sort it out....lm still in disbelief we are where we are.....

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 07:47 AM

28. always good to keep them honest

AOC's defeat of Joe Crowley helps. Schumer thinking this could happen to him might help him show a little more spine in these negotiations.

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Response to KayF (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 08:18 AM

30. Whoosh!

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Response to KayF (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 10:05 AM

34. No it doesn't. Running statwide is very different than running in a deep blue district.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 08:29 AM

31. Lots on Schumer's plate right now

He’s had the impeachment trial to schedule and start prep on. That required some negotiation with Mitch.

They are still negotiating over the terms of the power sharing agreement. Vice President Harris’s tie-breaking may make them a majority position the Democrats do not hold the majority of seats. There is fairly solid Senate precedent that includes things like equal membership on committees, which can be a little troublesome.

To some Senators Senate traditions and precedents are very important, like Senator Feinstein. So, keeping the caucus together and not alienating any possible Republican votes if you can’t get 50 Democrat Votes.

Once these and other necessary housekeeping chores are done they can get down to more than confirming Presidential appointees.

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Response to LTG (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 08:35 AM

32. Well said

Thank you.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Sat Jan 23, 2021, 10:09 AM

36. Demanding without understanding is useless

and destructive. At this point, we should not be "demanding" that our federal leadership do anything specific. Truly, we have only a limited understanding of everything that is involved in how the government functions.

Some of us know more than others, but none of us are actually in office in either house of Congress. Leave the man alone! He will get things done. Don't second guess him. He understands how the Senate functions better than almost anyone in that body.

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