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Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 06:52 PM Jan 2021

Coronavirus: This could prove to be problematic.

If I understand correctly, the vaccines work by freezing changes to the spike protein. What the scientists that developed the concept of preventing the spike protein from shifting in copies of the original invading virus theorized was that if copies of the invading virus had the same spike protein as the invading virus, vaccines could be made that would be effective against the invading virus and any copies that it managed to have human cells make.

What the article at the link details is that the mutant Coronavirus that was first found in South Africa can efficiently infect people that had gotten the virus and recovered, as I understand it, the antibodies that people’s bodies made don’t affect the South African mutant, it infects people as if there is no immunity.

At least that is what I get from the article. To me, that outcome is not terribly surprising, the SARS-COV-2 is a distant cousin to the common cold, there is no known cure for the common cold.

https://apple.news/AN7MeX5DyR9ikZzJzfTby5g

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Coronavirus: This could prove to be problematic. (Original Post) Blue_true Jan 2021 OP
Or it could be like the flu, we will have to get a Covid vaccine every year. Irish_Dem Jan 2021 #1
It's not a distant cousin. It's a very close cousin. Laelth Jan 2021 #2
Never mind, deleted... (posted below) targetpractice Jan 2021 #9
Precisely. Well said. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #11
Thanks... Sorry... I just bumped my response to the main level. n/t targetpractice Jan 2021 #13
I saw that. No biggie. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #14
I have been thinking about the Coronavirus that causes the common cold. Blue_true Jan 2021 #16
That's what I am thinking. Laelth Jan 2021 #17
What does this even mean? Blues Heron Jan 2021 #3
It's Not Freezing ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #7
OK, got it - thanks Blues Heron Jan 2021 #8
Badass response. Thank you. Laelth Jan 2021 #18
What a scientist at the National Institute of Health discovered in 2008 Blue_true Jan 2021 #19
Thanks Blues Heron Jan 2021 #22
The higher the infection and transmission rate, 5X Jan 2021 #4
That is a possibility. Blue_true Jan 2021 #20
Viruses don't breed, they only mutate. 5X Jan 2021 #21
For a good explanation, go hear. No lies, no made up facts, no media hype kirkuchiyo Jan 2021 #5
Thanks. That was a no nonsense presentation. Blue_true Jan 2021 #24
The Phrase Common Cold is really not a good one fearnobush Jan 2021 #6
Selective pressure... targetpractice Jan 2021 #10
+1 n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #15
But this botched vaccination roll out is problematic... targetpractice Jan 2021 #12
Good observation. I am not knowledgeable in this area, but the Blue_true Jan 2021 #25
Normally a vaccine works by causing the creation of antibodies. 58Sunliner Jan 2021 #23
So, if your last two sentences defined the South African mutant. Blue_true Jan 2021 #26
Yes, and no? 58Sunliner Jan 2021 #27

Irish_Dem

(63,021 posts)
1. Or it could be like the flu, we will have to get a Covid vaccine every year.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 06:59 PM
Jan 2021

The more people who get Covid, the more the mutations.
So we may have to get vaccinated every year.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
2. It's not a distant cousin. It's a very close cousin.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:01 PM
Jan 2021

As you rightly note, there is no cure for the common cold, just as there is no cure for SARS-CoV-19. Our best hope lies in the virus’ mutation into less-lethal variants that then become dominant strains. That appears to be happening.

-Laelth

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
16. I have been thinking about the Coronavirus that causes the common cold.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:45 PM
Jan 2021

Is it possible that when the common cold virus entered humans eons ago, it was a deadly virus that wiped out a large amount of the then humanoid population. Is it possible that some branches of humanids no longer exist because their bodies could not arrive at an accommodation with the common cold virus. My uneducated belief is that given time, our bodies will adjust to SARS-COV-2 and it won’t be any more of a problem than a cold, the issue is how long would that take, a year+, ten years, a hundred years......

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
17. That's what I am thinking.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:49 PM
Jan 2021

I can only guess how long it might take. 10 years is my highly-speculative and relatively-uneducated best guess, but who knows?

It’s not going away quickly. That seems certain.



-Laelth

Blues Heron

(6,313 posts)
3. What does this even mean?
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:03 PM
Jan 2021

"the vaccines work by freezing changes to the spike protein. What the scientists that developed the concept of preventing the spike protein from shifting in copies of the original invading virus theorized was that if copies of the invading virus had the same spike protein as the invading virus"

ProfessorGAC

(71,377 posts)
7. It's Not Freezing
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:10 PM
Jan 2021

That's just the OPs term for what we chemists call end capping.
It's an attack on the reactive functional group that creates a permanent (so to speak) saturation of the electronic conformation of the functional atom.
Now, that atom in the molecule can't react with anything else.
The angiotensin enzyme can no longer contribute to the replication process.
The vaccine stimulates antigens that perform that end capping, rendering the most important reactive site(s) inert.
In a sense, it "freezes" the replication process.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
19. What a scientist at the National Institute of Health discovered in 2008
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:55 PM
Jan 2021

was that the spike protein in virus copies didn’t have the same structure as the spike protein of the parent virus. He called it shape-shifting. Around 5-6 years later, while working as a professor and researcher, that scientist and a grad researcher figured out how to replace one of the chemical groups on the spike protein, that alteration caused the spike protein to stay that same when the virus caused human cells to make copies. With the spike protein no longer changing from parent virus to copies, the search was then on for a method of making vaccines that would take advantage of that advancement.

5X

(3,988 posts)
4. The higher the infection and transmission rate,
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:03 PM
Jan 2021

like we have here in the US, the more chance of mutations that could get worse at any time.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
20. That is a possibility.
Reply to 5X (Reply #4)
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:06 PM
Jan 2021

I am more concerned about SARS-COV-2 cross-breeding with SARS or MERS, or a Coronavirus that has a long incubation rate and is very deadly once it is active, but has not yet infected (jumped to) any human beings. My last sentence, I believe, is why there is so much demand that China work world scientists to understand how SARS-COV-2 got into human beings. Trump made that demand a racist catcall, but rational people know that unless we understand how SARS-COV-2 made it’s way into human being, there is likely an even more deadly virus that may eventually make the same jump.

5X

(3,988 posts)
21. Viruses don't breed, they only mutate.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:20 PM
Jan 2021

They are created from RNA and infect the RNA of cells.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
24. Thanks. That was a no nonsense presentation.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:36 PM
Jan 2021

I like how he concluded that our most dangerous pandemic is misinformation.

I believe that governments around the world must cooperate to identify as many viruses as possible, a tall task of what I read that there are unknown viruses that exceed seven figures in number. We simply can have a Trump, a person that builds walls and racially insult the citizens of countries that we will need to work with in such an effort.

fearnobush

(3,960 posts)
6. The Phrase Common Cold is really not a good one
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:10 PM
Jan 2021

There are many virus that produce cold like symptoms know as the common cold such as Rhinovirus, RFC and yes Coronavirus to name a few. Roughly 35% of all common cold cases are from coronavirus so it’s not a monolith. It’s just another bug of many that cause common cold symptoms.

And yes, eventually SARS 2 will mutate itself into one of its lesser cousins. But that doesn’t mean some deadlier variants can not occur along the way either.

targetpractice

(4,919 posts)
10. Selective pressure...
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:14 PM
Jan 2021

... is acting to create strains that that are more contagious, rather than more lethal. Makes sense... Selective pressure would act against more lethal strains. Natural selection favors more copies. Of course, I don't mean to imply intent or objective for SARS-CoV-19... It is what it is... The strain that makes and spreads more copies proliferates at the end of the day. Human bodies are COVID's survival machines. A highly lethal strain would makes less copies in a population over time.

targetpractice

(4,919 posts)
12. But this botched vaccination roll out is problematic...
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 07:20 PM
Jan 2021

... Delayed full immunization gives the virus an opportunity to mutate between the two-dose vaccinations. Much like not taking a full-course of antibiotics creates super resistant strains of bacteria.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
25. Good observation. I am not knowledgeable in this area, but the
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:44 PM
Jan 2021

possibility that you raised would be pretty scary. Fortunately vaccine technology for mRNA viruses is pretty advanced (thanks Presidents Bush and Obama), so a new vaccine should be quickly made, and with Biden at the helm, a fast rollout COULD put COVID19 behind us. The big problem in that if the current virus gets rendered ineffective, the QAnon people and anti-vaxxers are going to latch on that to spread doubt about a replacement vaccine.

58Sunliner

(5,167 posts)
23. Normally a vaccine works by causing the creation of antibodies.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:25 PM
Jan 2021

Your body will recognize the virus in future infections and will react by producing more antibodies. The SA variant is supposed to be better able to pass undetected from the antibodies. Apparently some people are better able to have an immune response to this variant, if they have previously had exposure to C-19, than others who also have had exposure. Maybe they have already had exposure to this variant? The difference in response can be as much as 10 fold. Maybe they will find it is related to other things, like blood type, etc..

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
26. So, if your last two sentences defined the South African mutant.
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 08:48 PM
Jan 2021

Could that potentially put us back where we were five months ago, only worse off?

58Sunliner

(5,167 posts)
27. Yes, and no?
Mon Jan 18, 2021, 09:08 PM
Jan 2021

Apparently there is still some mystery as to the functions of the mutations of the spike protein that they do not completely understand. They do understand the prior variants and feel that all that may be needed is to tweak the vaccine. The scientists who were quoted said not to freak out, but they also are severely restricting travel out of SA to prevent it's spread. They are concerned. They are assuming it will be managed as soon as they understand the new variant. It would be helpful to understand the overall health and genetic predisposition of the majority in SA who have had this variant and of those who had a worse reaction to it. I also don't have a clear picture of their compliance with masks, etc...

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