Meet the schoolgirl, 12, who has an IQ of 162...

[madmom]

making her brainier than Einstein and Stephen Hawking


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2212306/Olivia-Manning-Meet-schoolgirl-12-IQ-162--making-brainier-Einstein-Stephen-Hawking.html

[cthulu2016]

1. 162 isn't so much

It's very smart... but there are many people with higher scores.

[WinkyDink]

5. It's dang high!

[TalkingDog]

26. Agreed. I'm at 150 and one of my young friends clocks in at 182.

Her brother is no slouch either. In her family being smart was just a given. She suffers the same insecurities as any young woman her age.

Being smart don't (sic) make you "smart".

[renie408]

46. Depends on the test.

You have to take multiple tests and average. I scored as high as 154 on some tests and as low as 136 on others. They started testing me in the 4th grade because I displayed a college level reading comprehension on my first standardized test. I was then tested several times and moved into the sixth grade. After the 9th grade, they settled on 148 for my IQ.

Oddly enough, my Mensa score was 162, but I threw that out because I have since discovered that the Mensa test is, shall we say, generous in its scoring.

[BlueStreak]

31. And it is relative to age.

I know a person who tested to 160 at age 7, and was definitely smart, but certainly didn't develop the same kind of mental activity of Einstein or Hawking.

There are many intelligences, and the IQ tests really only look at a small part of the spectrum.

I have no doubt the girl is exceptionally bright, but I'd not be too quick to line her up with Einstein or Hawking.

[11 Bravo]

70. Precisely. I tested to 165 when I was six, and trust me, I wound up reasonably bright, but ...

Stephen Hawking has nothing to fear.

[gkhouston]

76. Depends on the scale... it's high on the Weschler Index, IIRC,

but not so much on Stanford-Binet.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. That's four standard deviations above normal.

SD = 15.

I'm 3 SDs above normal at 146, and earned 3 college degrees, but that didn't get me anywhere. I was also told I was slow and lazy and stupid, many times, in school. The favorite insult by the little bastards 'n' trollops in school was "Queer". This was before the usage of the word "gay".


3 SDs is one person out of a thousand. I wonder what the ratio is for 4 SDs???



Looking at this table:
http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx

At 162, with a SD of 15, she is one out of 55,906.
I was one out of 924 at 146.

[cthulu2016]

3. Someone with an IQ of 162 would tell you that it is

one out of 10,000

(That's what some little girl just told me)

[dawg]

6. Silly smart person.

Intelligence doesn't get you ahead in this country. It's all about the right connections and the ability to bullshit and suck up!

[hifiguy]

25. That's the honest truth.

When I was starting school back in the early 1960s my folks were told that my IQ was in the high 140s-low 150s. I could read before I was three. I got accelerated two years - one year because of my birthday and one because of my brains, and was totally miserable all through grade school and junior high until I had a couple of "nervous breakdowns" and wound up with kids my own age again. Being the smallest and smartest kid in class was not a good combination.

Dropped out at 16, got my GED and went to college at 25 and made it all the way to Harvard Law. Bombed out at every law firm job I ever had.

Eventually I was dx'd as Asperger's in 2005, which explained pretty much everything.

[Spider Jerusalem]

72. Ouch

very similar here--learnt to read on my own at 2, "accelerated" + gifted classes, IQ tested at 153, National Merit semifinalist, 1490 SAT with no prep...and dropped out of high school at 16 and went on to college a year early, much frustration along the way until I was diagnosed with Asperger's at 26.

Being a lot smarter than most people is probably more curse than blessing, in some ways.

[Odin2005]

74. Sometimes I feel that my intelligence is more socially disabling than my Asperger's.

I have trouble relating with people of ordinary intelligence and their interests.

[Spider Jerusalem]

80. It's both probably, I'd guess

although there's also a correlation between intelligence and introversion; extroverts are much better at social interaction generally (the ability to engage in small talk and content-free conversation that's nothing more than just making social noises at one another); there are introverted neurotypicals and extroverted autistics, but the neurological differences of autism (interpretation of body language, avoidance of eye contact, perseveration, and so on) create their own set of difficulties in interaction even for extroverted autistics. (And highly intelligent, extroverted neurotypicals seem to do quite well with social interactions; see for instance Bill Clinton.)

[Odin2005]

84. Well, I'm one of those extroverted autistics.

Extroverts are not necessarily more social that Introverts, at least going by Carl Jung's original meaning of the terms. Jung called Darwin, who was not a sociable person, an "extroverted thinking type" (which I myself am).

Albert Einstein was almost certainly autistic and a biography of him I have recently read described him as a "jovial extrovert". Nowadays he would, like me, be diagnosed as having Asperger's with co-morbid ADHD

[Warpy]

7. Most of the time, it just gets in the way

If you want to survive, you hide it.

[msanthrope]

19. Particularly if you are female. I had a great deal of trouble in middle school when

a very cruel teacher announced to the class that I had the highest IQ in the class.

This went over poorly in my Catholic school, with the male students, teachers, and clergy.

[laundry_queen]

36. That's for sure.

I got called 'nerd' more times than I can count. I was quite social and was determined to make friends with the popular girls, so when one of them told me, "I can't even understand half the words in the notes you pass me." I made sure I dumbed it down considerably. And I drank a lot on the weekends. I did everything possible to cover up my grades. My IQ isn't even that high - 131 - but it was high enough to get me ostracized if I didn't proactively cover it up.

[distantearlywarning]

63. Dumbing Down

I'm in academia now, where it isn't necessary, but I still do this outside of the Ivory Tower just as a matter of self-preservation, just like I did in high school and in the non-academic workplace. It sucks having to pretend you are something you aren't, but people get really upset if they think you're deliberately acting smarter than they are.

My husband, who has an IQ in the 130 range, gets talked to at work at least once a year for using "words that are too big". My feeling about it is: maybe the people he is talking to could look in a dictionary once in a while. But whatever. Corporate America is always about pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[surrealAmerican]

53. That must have been a different era than when I was in school ...

... or a very different school culture. We did take IQ tests, but the results were so confidential that they would not tell students their own scores under any circumstance. There was some way for a parent to request the result, and he or she could choose to tell his or her child, but that was the only way children could get their own scores.

[gkhouston]

77. +1. My parents know what my IQ is, as did my eldest sister who overheard them.

Me? Haven't got a clue. Which describes a lot of my existence, actually.

[LadyHawkAZ]

59. We didn't do IQ tests

but we did do SAT testing every year, and without fail every teacher trumpeted how smart I was. I started testing post-high school in every subject except math in the 3rd grade. I don't remember their being a difference between the genders- EVERYONE hated me. And then they skipped me up a grade from 6th to 7th- because of my birthdate I was already the youngest kid in my class, so when I skipped up I was almost two years younger than my classmates. It didn't get better. It got worse.

I was waiting in line bright and early for the first scheduled proficiency exam after my 16th birthday. As soon as I got the call to let me know I had passed, I phoned the school, told them I was done and never went back. I never even picked up my certificate or returned my books. "Best years of my life" my ass.

[distantearlywarning]

62. Similar thing happened to me in 3rd grade

I was pulled out of class one day a week to go to another school across town to take classes for the gifted. I was (and am) academically advanced, but otherwise was a rebellious and disorganized 3rd grader. My teacher particularly valued little children who were tidy, quiet, and did as they were told. It infuriated her that I was the one child in her class who was labeled gifted.

I can distinctly remember her telling the class, in a nasty sarcastic voice, "Oh, DistantEarlyWarning has to leave now. She thinks she's *special* because she gets to go to a fancy school."

Third grade was super fun.

I did like gifted school though. We played a lot of fun imaginary games on the playground there, games I couldn't get the kids in my regular school to play with me.

[yardwork]

71. My IQ was never tested but I'm familiar with that experience of being called out by teachers.

It's truly scarring to small children to be mocked by their teachers for being smart. I was not praised for being the "best" reader in my first grade class - far from it. It is no way to become popular, especially for girls. This problem held all the way through high school, just in time for me to figure out how to pretend not to be smart, just in time for college when my new-found skill was exactly wrong.

I was not very good at math, so I got mocked for that too. Smart at one pole, slow at the other. My experience suggests that being anything other than boringly in the middle is the road to ostracization. The solution is to hang on until college.

Any smart kids reading this - ignore the bullies and hang on until college. Then you can be as smart as possible and people praise you for it.

[JDPriestly]

78. Precisely. Just hang on until college. You will be rewarded for your patience.

And then graduate school is even better. You get to do research and write papers on what you want.

[distantearlywarning]

79. Graduate school is like moving from a big pond to a puddle

It can be as hard for the super bright as being in an environment where nobody gets you, but in the totally opposite way - you're used to being the smart one who has to dumb down to get along. Now everyone around you is suddenly as intelligent (or more intelligent) than you are, and some of your classes might even be over your head for the first time in your life. It can be a tough adjustment emotionally for people who have built their entire identity around their intellect and being the smartest one in the room. But grad school is also fun because you can let it all hang out on an intellectual level. There is no such thing as TOO smart or creative in the average Ph.D. program, so it's like having a totally open road in front of you.

[renie408]

47. That would be my personal experience.

As stated upthread, I tested as a genius in the 4th grade and the school immediately got all kinds of excited about me. Moved me to the sixth grade and, essentially, completely screwed me up. This was in the mid-70's. My social skills were non-existent for a long time because I was treated like a sideshow freak by the other kids at school.

I train horses for a living. And not really that much of a living most of the time, but I am happy. I have learned how to mirror others in social settings, and so get by pretty well now.

[progressivebydesign]

82. could not agree more!! nt

[magical thyme]

17. 1 in 3,406 here (or 1 in 8,137 if you look at the 15th vs 16th SD %)

But, as the poster somewhere below noted, IQ can change by test, circumstances, age. I've tested as low as 135 or so. About 15 years ago I tested at 155. I've stopped testing myself since then. Quit while you're ahead and rest on the laurels, that's my motto!

[msanthrope]

18. Mine changed by 12 points when my dyslexia was accounted for. Not that it mattered much---once you

are over a certain point, it's just numbers.

[magical thyme]

20. blood sugar, happiness quotient, smart people around me

versus dumb GOPers. All impact my number, but doesn't change the misfit quotient

[MadrasT]

4. Raw IQ doesn't mean all that much.

It's what you do with it.

Mine is higher than that. I live a pretty regular life.

[KansDem]

32. I had a teacher once who agreed. She thought the ZQ was more important...

The "Zest Quotient." She said essentially what you observed: It's not what you have but rather what you do with it.

Having said that, I respect this student's IQ and hope she possesses a high ZQ...

[WinkyDink]

8. See chart:

http://www.iqtestforfree.net/IQ-chart.html

(P.S. FWIW, mine is 141. )

[HiPointDem]

9. not according to this:

If you want to know the record holder for the highest IQ in the world, then you're in the right place. Although many people think it's Steven Hawking with an IQ of slightly over 200, or Marilyn vos Savant with an IQ of 228.

We want to mention that results of IQs can vary from test to test and by age. For example an IQ of 170 at the age of 10 years old is the equivalent of an adult IQ of only 106. The other problem is that there is no set way to measure intelligence as there are too many aspects to take into account (memory, problem-solving, etc), so don't put too much faith in your IQ rating.

The highest IQ ever to be scored in the advanced IQ test was by Abdesselam Jelloul. Who scored an adult IQ of 198 in a 2012 test which included 13 dimensions of intelligence (analytical, spatial, logical, memory, musical, linguistic, philosophical, moral, spiritual, interpersonal, intra-personal, bodily and naturalist). Unlike other tests. The advanced IQ test includes more measures that other tests cannot assess.

Guinness retired the category of "Highest IQ" in 1990, after concluding that IQ tests are not reliable enough to designate a single world record holder. So do not expect to find any reliable information about the highest IQ.

Previously, the highest IQ ever recorded was by Marilyn vos Savant with 228; however that is a mental status ratio IQ (used for children). Adult IQs are measured by standard deviations, in which her adult IQ would compute to about 185, which is lower than famous chess master Bobby Fischer (187). Kim Ung-Yong is a Korean former child prodigy. Kim was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records under "Highest IQ"; the book estimated the boy's score at about 210. Albert Einstein was considered to "only" have an IQ of about 160.

http://mostextreme.org/highest_iq.php


dunno how reliable this is, though.

[LanternWaste]

10. she seems both really intelligent and really humble and down-to-earth

From reading the article, she seems both really intelligent and really humble and down-to-earth, not the most common combination-- especially coming from those who like to tell us how intelligent they are...

[HiPointDem]

11. High Childhood IQ Linked to Subsequent Illicit Drug Use, Research Suggests

When intelligence was factored in, the analysis showed that men with high IQ scores at the age of 5 were around 50% more likely to have used amphetamines, ecstasy, and several illicit drugs than those with low scores, 25 years later.

The link was even stronger among women, who were more than twice as likely to have used cannabis and cocaine as those with low IQ scores.

The same associations emerged between a high IQ score at the age of 10 and subsequent use of cannabis, ecstasy, amphetamines, multiple drug use and cocaine, although this last association was only evident at the age of 30.

The findings held true, irrespective of anxiety/depression during adolescence, parental social class, and lifetime household income.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111114221018.htm

[hobbit709]

21. I learned very early to hide how much I knew.

that may have something to do with getting high to escape the world around you.
My IQ as a kid was measured at 138. A few years ago I took one of the adult level tests and rated a 135.

[laundry_queen]

38. Yep, see my post upthread.

I tried really hard to hide it, dumbed down my speech, pretended I didn't know the answers in school.

I drank. A LOT - starting at age 12. I think my particular reason for drinking was my brain never turned off and I could never just relax and enjoy myself because I was constantly analyzing everything, from the dangers of how fast my boyfriend was driving, to my friends not buckled in, to if I would look silly if I buckled up, to how much time I had left till curfew, to if what the girls in the back said meant something sinister....unless I drank my thoughts overwhelmed me to the point I became completely silent and then got teased as being the 'quiet one'. I was too scared to try drugs though (illegal and I'd been arrested once - shoplifting - and knew if I got arrested again I'd have a permanent record since here they erase your record as a youth if you don't reoffend). That was likely a really good thing - the alcohol got me in enough trouble.

I had a 'real' iq test at 18 that was 131, which isn't THAT high although what is frustrating is the test taker wasn't clear it was a timed test, so I totally took my time so had I known I probably would've scored higher. I've done online ones since that I've gotten 150-160 but I don't put a lot of stock in the online ones.

[hifiguy]

27. I loved weed when I found it at 16.

It eased my social anxiety and let me mellow out. Intelligence usually comes paired with curiosity about things, including altered states of consciousness.

[DollarBillHines]

30. Living proof, right here.

I cannot believe I have made it this long.

[wildeyed]

56. Mmmmmm....

It was lovely to turn the brain off, or at least shift it into a lower gear.

[LadyHawkAZ]

61. I remember just wanting something to make my brain turn off for awhile

although none of the things I tried did that and I didn't really enjoy any of them.

Weed makes me hallucinate. It isn't fun.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. This society destroys bright people.

due to anti-intellectualism. People are jealous and will lie about you and hold you back. You can't tell the boss he or she is wrong.

I would say it's a liability to be smart because even if you hide it, it will show if you use proper grammar, for instance.

[RC]

14. Or speling to.

So I hide mine.

[MineralMan]

15. Plenty of people with genius-level IQs do just fine with their lives.

They just get on with what they want to do, and don't make a big deal of it. Most are successful and happy. Fewer aren't.

[hobbit709]

22. you don't want to be a pink monkey in a cage of brown ones.

[AnneD]

24. Very good observation....

especially here in Texas.

You learn to speak GOB here. The guys would be trying to fix their car engine and I could see what the problem was. Some times if I was bored and wanted to do something else, I would say "have you tried that thingie (yeah I knew the name)." to get them moving.

[HiPointDem]

23. i'd say it destroys dumb smart people. the ones dumb enough to think truth is more important

than power.

[Johonny]

29. I'd say it destroy the people that get caught up in the score of a test

There are certain op ed writers that cite their IQ scores as proof they are smarter than you and thus their opinion is worth more than you. In general once you go into a field where the average person has a PhD, MBA etc... no one talks about your test scores. They care about what you do with your intelligence and what your producing. IQ tests are interesting and have uses, but rarely do actual people engaged in intellectual pursuits get very caught up in each others IQ scores.

[HiPointDem]

33. that too.

[NYC Liberal]

64. True to an extent. I'd say it's worse at younger ages in junior high and high school.

Once you get into college, it's easier to find people who are just as smart as you are and just stick with them. Plus at that point you're making your own path.

[MineralMan]

13. Good for her. The publicity, though, won't be

a help to her. I hope she's got good family support and can just keep learning and growing. I hope she gets left alone to find her own place in the world. Celebrity isn't necessarily a good thing at all.

[HopeHoops]

16. I'm impressed.

[closeupready]

28. I'm 187.

Over 60, that is. Oh, wait ...

[WinkyDink]

68. Bwah!

[caraher]

34. Good for her, but what does that IQ number *really* mean anyway?

As mentioned in another link, Marilyn vos Savant has a much higher IQ, and as near as I can tell that mostly means she is exceptionally good at taking IQ tests. I used to read her "Ask Marilyn" column in Parade and while she was dead-on correct about IQ test question controversies (especially the infamous "Monty Hall problem&quot , her IQ didn't stop her from spouting off on topics she knew little about.

In general, people are too easily impressed by numbers derived from test scores. I did well on these sorts of tests and had some weird encounters as a result. I was at a Model UN in high school and some other students wanted me to write a resolution for them on a topic I hadn't researched, because my SAT score was higher than theirs. When I was at my college orientation there was a dance, and I overheard a conversation where a bunch of other incoming freshmen were comparing SAT scores. This struck me as silly - here we were, all starting at the same school, so clearly we were all "good enough" to get in, and the I said something like, "I can't believe they're comparing SAT scores at the next table." Well, I misread my audience - they immediately started comparing college entrance test scores. When I declined to share my own, one of them expressed sympathy for my burden of clearly (to him) having done poorly - when in fact, I'd scored substantially higher than either of them!

Having an IQ score in the top tenth of a percent doesn't mean a thing in life. It's a measure of something, but I'm not sure precisely what, and whatever that might be, the good it may do comes from other factors.

Regardless, I wish this girl well... I hope she does something good with her intellectual gifts!

[madmom]

35. My, how smart we all are!

[Aerows]

42. We are

How do you think we found DU in the first place

[renie408]

50. Statistically, 'we' are.

Liberals are more intelligent than conservatives.

To feel confident about your IQ, you should be tested formally and repeatedly. Different types of tests weight different aspects of intelligence, well, differently. I have high processing speed and extremely high pattern recognition capabilities. While not an actual measure of intelligence, pattern recognition along with the processing speed allows me to jump to correct answers very quickly. I oftentimes have a harder time explaining HOW I know the answer. Same thing with my son, who tests very similarly to me.

[Daemonaquila]

37. Meh. Also, not "brainier" until she accomplishes something.

I went to a school where the average IQ was 140. Consider the math and figure out where a lot of our higher-range IQs fell. I've been around phenomenally high-IQ people all my life, and there are only 2 things you can say about them: (a) they're not as rare as people might think, and (b) all that potential brain power means nothing until it produces something. The world is full of MENSA losers boring their friends with boasts about their genius while languishing in undistinguished middle management or working on electronics and code in their basements for anyone who'll please-please-pretty-please hire them for $12/hr.

[Nevernose]

39. IQ for children are notoriously high

It will be interesting to see how she tests at age 21 or so. School psychologists tell me that scoring in the 140s or 130s reallyI isn't that uncommon.

[WinkyDink]

69. It is uncommon. People aren't "re-tested."

[Nevernose]

83. I was.

And people being heralded as smarter than Einstein might be, as well as anyone else who's a subject in a long-range study might be.

[wildeyed]

87. It's a bell curve.

Only a certain percentage of kids will score in that area. 130 is top 2%, 140 is top 1%. Whether you think that is common or uncommon is up to you.

Score do sometimes change as kids age, but in the right circumstance, they are pretty stable.

[JackRiddler]

40. My heart goes out to the poor girl.

[Aerows]

41. 149 isn't so bad :)

162 is good, but not overly impressive at 12.

[Speck Tater]

43. I seriously doubt that I.Q. means much of anything.

I tested at 165, 163 and 164 in elementary school, high school and the Air Force. I was a mediocre student and an average computer instructor and an adequate computer programmer until I retired. If I'm so smart how come I ain't rich?

The fact is, I happen to be really good at taking I.Q. tests, and not really much else. I think it's because I loved solving puzzles of the sort they put in I.Q. tests and by the time I took my first I.Q. test I had already seen almost all the questions in one form or another in my many, many riddle and puzzle books.

A is to R as H is to ...

1. M
2. K
3. E
4. O

When you've solved enough puzzles of that sort you just see the answer at a glance. That's not intelligence, it's practice.

[Aerows]

45. Being a computer programmer

kind of gave it away.

[Vattel]

44. My IQ is only 72, but I am good at stacking stuff.

[Whovian]

49. Oh yeah? Mine ar 60 an eyeeee kin tipe!

[wilsonbooks]

52. LOL

[Lex]

48. Meaningless--unless she does something for the good of mankind with her intellect.

[rDigital]

51. IQ is meaningless, but I hope this attention provides her with opportunites to shine. nt

[KamaAina]

54. And almost as brainy as KamaAina

164 here.

[Odin2005]

73. Seriously??? I thought I was smart with an IQ of 135.

[KamaAina]

85. 135?!

[wildeyed]

55. Um, what test are they using?

Modern tests only go up to 160. If she got a score like that on the WISC IV using the extended norms, that is a freakishly high score. The other common IQ test, the Stanford Binet, only goes to about 160 as well, if I recall. The other thing that is important to note about modern tests, the ceilings are very low. So any score above 140-145 is very, very high. The kids are simply hitting too many ceilings at that point to know what their true score would be.

There is an old, out of date test, the Stanford-Binet LM, that can yield scores that high regularly, but it has not been normed since the 70's. Comparing an old LM score to the new tests..... well you can't do it. Apples and oranges. It sounds like they were using the old tests or some other type of test, since the other kid only made top 2% with a score of 150+. On the modern tests, that would be considered profoundly gifted.

[revolution breeze]

57. I wish her the best

But it remains to be seem what she does with that intelligence.

[bobthedrummer]

58. Using WAIS 2 Revised I was superior, son (age 37), was 14th level of ed at 12. n/t

[distantearlywarning]

60. Very high, but not unusual enough to warrant a special article, IMO

I have a good friend who has an IQ in the range of 170 (they just received a Ph.D. in a hard science). Chances are that most of us know someone this smart but who is just not so interested in self-promotion that they require media coverage about it.

[jimlup]

65. When she discovers a new theory of gravitation or

revolutionizes our view of the surface of black holes - I'll buy the "she's brighter than Einstein and Hawking" line.

[tjwash]

66. I'm at 182.5

Coming down from 190. trying to get to 179 so my pants fit again and I don't have to buy bigger clothes

[Throd]

67. Big deal. Mine is 68,455

I invented helium.

[steve2470]

75. Nice but...

I hope her family/parents help her integrate her intellect along with social intelligence and other valuable assets.

[progressivebydesign]

81. Mine was 149 in jr. high.

I would not want it to be any higher. It's hard enough functioning in this world with a high IQ as it is... makes it hard as a kid, and as a female. sorry if that sounds backwards, but it has not served me well in relationships. Perhaps I need to seek out someone with a similar style brain.

[Egalitarian Thug]

86. This thread is an unintentional demonstration of just some of the problems with being quicker

than most. From the inability to understand what IQ means to the transparent jealousy of those that don't quite measure up.

Pretty funny, but really kind of sad as well.