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Sat Jan 16, 2021, 12:59 AM

Star Member Zorro (12,796 posts)

Electric Cars Are Better for the Planet - and Often Your Budget, Too

Electric vehicles are better for the climate than gas-powered cars, but many Americans are still reluctant to buy them. One reason: The larger upfront cost.

New data published Thursday shows that despite the higher sticker price, electric cars may actually save drivers money in the long-run.

To reach this conclusion, a team at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology calculated both the carbon dioxide emissions and full lifetime cost — including purchase price, maintenance and fuel — for nearly every new car model on the market.

They found electric cars were easily more climate friendly than gas-burning ones. Over a lifetime, they were often cheaper, too.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/climate/electric-car-cost.html

37 replies, 1035 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Electric Cars Are Better for the Planet - and Often Your Budget, Too (Original post)
 Zorro Jan 16 OP
LineReply Bought a Toyota Prius Prime a tear ago
 CanonRay Jan 16 #1
LineLineReply You must have a feather foot
 WA-03 Democrat Jan 16 #6
LineLineLineNew Reply I run mostly on battery
 CanonRay Jan 16 #33
LineLineReply When I bought my latest Prius, 15 months ago
 MurrayDelph Jan 16 #24
LineLineNew Reply I've got a prime as my primary car and have been getting 100mpg over two years
 fishwax Jan 16 #36
LineReply Last week, there was an intense confabulation in GD
 Aristus Jan 16 #2
LineLineReply We have a pro-nuke, anti-EV
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #13
LineReply Higher upfront costs? Right now, you can get a new Chevy Bolt for about $22k
 tinrobot Jan 16 #3
LineLineReply You can get a Leaf for under $10K
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #14
LineReply Oh goody. "Science" from the New York Times.
 NNadir Jan 16 #4
LineLineReply I knew you'd appreciate the article!
 Zorro Jan 16 #7
LineLineLineReply Yeah, as we all know, all the electricity in the world comes out a magic extension cord...
 NNadir Jan 16 #8
LineLineLineLineReply New you'd show up.
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #15
LineReply shortage of charging locations. where's the electric pickups and small vans? nt
 msongs Jan 16 #5
LineLineReply Tesla has a pickup in the works.
 Kablooie Jan 16 #10
LineLineLineReply People love or hate the look
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #12
LineLineLineLineReply Put me down as "no"
 tinrobot Jan 16 #21
LineLineLineLineLineReply My friend,
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #23
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply Exactly. The more EVs the better.
 tinrobot Jan 16 #25
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Also, for people with high
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #27
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Ironically my 2011 is worth than I paid 4 years ago
 JCMach1 Jan 16 #29
LineLineLineLineNew Reply LOVE IT!!!
 Rstrstx Jan 16 #30
LineLineReply Vans are still MIA in the US
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #11
LineLineLineReply Ford is releasing some later this year
 tinrobot Jan 16 #20
LineLineLineLineReply Yes, and a smaller companies
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #22
LineLineLineNew Reply VW's love van looks cool
 Rstrstx Jan 16 #31
LineLineLineLineNew Reply They've been promising since 2017
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #32
LineLineReply There's lots of EV trucks in the works - Rivian, Bollinger, Hummer, Lordstown, Nikola...
 Initech Jan 16 #17
LineLineReply Be patient, things are ramping up quickly.
 tinrobot Jan 16 #19
LineReply Own 2
 Miguelito Loveless Jan 16 #9
LineReply I wanted to get an EV but couldn't afford one.
 Initech Jan 16 #16
LineReply The best thing to do is leave the car at home and take a bicycle.
 Ron Green Jan 16 #18
LineReply Message auto-removed
 Name removed Jan 16 #26
LineNew Reply I have a 95% electric car
 Silent3 Jan 16 #28
LineNew Reply No cars would be even better.
 hunter Jan 16 #34
LineNew Reply They currently take too long to recharge
 Generic Brad Jan 16 #35
LineNew Reply Yeah, no thanks
 hardluck Jan 16 #37

Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:03 AM

Star Member CanonRay (11,595 posts)

1. Bought a Toyota Prius Prime a tear ago

mostly for driving around doing errands. Averaging 209.3 mpg since purchase.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:16 AM

Star Member WA-03 Democrat (1,152 posts)

6. You must have a feather foot

Light touch on acceleration is great. I have a 2019 Camry hybrid and a 2015 Leaf. The Camry gets 50 mpg I am surprised to see any hybrid much over that.

All three drivers in our family want the Leaf. Used Leafs are a bargain. $11k under 30k miles and you fuel cost (batteries) are covered. Our monthly electric went up $7. Had it for 2 years and only maintenance cost were replacement wipers. I love the direct drive and no gear box, etc. it’s a great town car. Long trips take a lot of time but every Walmart has rechargers so it’s easier for sure.

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Response to WA-03 Democrat (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 10:08 AM

Star Member CanonRay (11,595 posts)

33. I run mostly on battery

I've only put gas in it 3 times in a year. I can get 25-30 miles on a charge, and that gets me through a couple of days errands.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:21 AM

Star Member MurrayDelph (4,356 posts)

24. When I bought my latest Prius, 15 months ago

I was torn between the Prime and the AWD-e models. Because it does occasionally snow where i live, I went with the AWD version. Then the world shut down, and I went from driving 18,000 miles a year, last year I only drove 7500. According to the built-in fuel log, I haven't put gas I the car since December 1. If I'd gone with the Prime it might not have been since October.

Up-front costs is what kept me away from a Tesla. Normally, there are several drives between the northern Oregon coast and Los Angeles by way of Reno. Once, we drove from Oregon to Miami by way of Los Angeles (for a funeral), Yellowstone, Chicago, St Louis, and Orlando. And electric cars with long-range batteries and all-wheel drive age still pretty pricey. Hopefully that'll change when we have to replace the seven-year-old CR-V which currently has 118,000 miles.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 10:46 AM

Star Member fishwax (28,675 posts)

36. I've got a prime as my primary car and have been getting 100mpg over two years

My employer has a charging station that is free (other than what we already pay for parking) and that covers my daily commute. So during the work week I don't use any gas at all.

Weekend adventures and long trips are a different story. Since I've been largely working from home (where it isn't as easy for me to charge) since last March, I've been down to about 85 mpg since the pandemic started (but of course I haven't driven nearly as much).

I love the car!

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:05 AM

Star Member Aristus (54,350 posts)

2. Last week, there was an intense confabulation in GD

about how electric cars are worse for the environment than gas cars, and we’re all fooling ourselves, blah, blah, blah...

Don’t know where that came from, but there’s always going to be some pushback...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:42 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

13. We have a pro-nuke, anti-EV

On the site and posts LONG stories pushing this myth. He uses the firehose technique when you call out his lies and distortion, writing a 5,000+ words to argue against the, claiming to be scientist, but never addresses the refutation, just keeps cranking up the word hose.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:08 AM

Star Member tinrobot (8,874 posts)

3. Higher upfront costs? Right now, you can get a new Chevy Bolt for about $22k

GM is clearing out last year's models, which means there are some really great deals out there.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:44 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

14. You can get a Leaf for under $10K

Which is a perfect daily driver for commutes up to 40-50 miles

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:13 AM

Star Member NNadir (26,588 posts)

4. Oh goody. "Science" from the New York Times.

As usual, drivel.

My standard joke is that one cannot get a degree in journalism if one has passed a college level science course. I'm often thinking of the science reporting at the New York Times when I say it.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:16 AM

Star Member Zorro (12,796 posts)

7. I knew you'd appreciate the article!

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Response to Zorro (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:19 AM

Star Member NNadir (26,588 posts)

8. Yeah, as we all know, all the electricity in the world comes out a magic extension cord...

...extending across the space, using "renewable copper" plugged into the sun.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:46 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

15. New you'd show up.

Was just talking about.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:15 AM

Star Member msongs (59,455 posts)

5. shortage of charging locations. where's the electric pickups and small vans? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:30 AM

Star Member Kablooie (16,812 posts)

10. Tesla has a pickup in the works.

But it's one of the strangest looking things ever made.
Tesla has a ton of charging stations, only for Teala.
Use Google map and search for Tesla superchargers.
They are working on an electric big rig too.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:36 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

12. People love or hate the look

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:11 AM

Star Member tinrobot (8,874 posts)

21. Put me down as "no"

Glad Tesla is doing a truck, but I'm more of a Rivian guy...

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:17 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

23. My friend,

as long as it is electric, I am all for it.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:22 AM

Star Member tinrobot (8,874 posts)

25. Exactly. The more EVs the better.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 03:09 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

27. Also, for people with high

range anxiety, used Chevy Volts are a good deal, and the 2016 model and up with 53 miles electric range (350 gasoline) will cover 80% or more of a daily drive. We closed out 2020 on a single tank of gas for the tear.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #27)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 05:18 AM

Star Member JCMach1 (25,946 posts)

29. Ironically my 2011 is worth than I paid 4 years ago

Love that car though!

And yes, almost all drives are electric. Nice to have 0 range anxiety. You just get in and go.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 05:41 AM

Rstrstx (1,165 posts)

30. LOVE IT!!!

This is why Tesla is winning, they have no qualms about breaking from the past if the past is broken.

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:32 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

11. Vans are still MIA in the US

Easy to get in EU.

Charging infrastructure has been growing by double digits % for years. I charge at home and work.

Looking at the Tesla network, We two in my state. We now have 20, and will double that in next two years.

if you are an non-apartment dweller charging at home is cheap, easy, using a 110v outlet, a 220v dryer socket, or you can install your own charger from $500 to $1200

(Technically the charger is in the EV, a dedicated charge point is an electrical vehicle service equipment, EVSE for short.

Haven’t been in a gas station since 2016.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:09 AM

Star Member tinrobot (8,874 posts)

20. Ford is releasing some later this year

Here's the link:

https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-transit/2022/

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:16 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

22. Yes, and a smaller companies

Like Rivian and Lordstown Motors. Ford is in a self-created bind. They can make an electric F-150, but it doesn’t want to make a lot of them as it could crash their lucrative gas/diesel powered models.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 06:09 AM

Rstrstx (1,165 posts)

31. VW's love van looks cool

Hope it makes it into production.

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Response to Rstrstx (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 08:35 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

32. They've been promising since 2017

And we’ve just been told it is delayed yet again.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/15/vw-id-buzz-electric-minivan-delayed/

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:54 AM

Star Member Initech (86,548 posts)

17. There's lots of EV trucks in the works - Rivian, Bollinger, Hummer, Lordstown, Nikola...

But they aren't exactly what one would call "affordable". If I could afford one of these I'd do it in half a second!

https://insideevs.com/car-lists/electric-trucks/

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Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:05 AM

Star Member tinrobot (8,874 posts)

19. Be patient, things are ramping up quickly.

We've doubled the amount of fast charging in the past 18 months and it's accelerating. Coverage is getting quite good, particularly on the coasts. You can also drive coast to coast using a number of interstates.

GM announced a separate company just for electric vans last week. Ford is doing small commercial vans and box trucks starting this year.

Tesla, Rivian, and GM have already shown production pickups. Ford has an F-150 EV set for debut this year.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:21 AM

Star Member Miguelito Loveless (2,973 posts)

9. Own 2

And would never go back.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:50 AM

Star Member Initech (86,548 posts)

16. I wanted to get an EV but couldn't afford one.

I wanted to get a Tesla Model 3 but the cheapest one was $52K. Then I looked at other electrics like the Nissan Leaf and Honda Clarity and those weren't practical for how much I drive. And even the cheapest hybrid I could get (Honda Accord) was a bit outside of my budget. But I do know that this car that I just bought will be my last gas-powered vehicle. My next car will be a hybrid or a full electric, I know that for sure!

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:01 AM

Ron Green (9,166 posts)

18. The best thing to do is leave the car at home and take a bicycle.

If you drive too much for that, change your life. Move. Switch your job. Most people can do it if they really believe in it.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 03:30 AM

Star Member Silent3 (10,546 posts)

28. I have a 95% electric car

I bought a 2019 Chevy Volt (sadly, that was the last model year for the Volt) and 95% of my driving or more is electric. I was doing so little gas-powered driving that at one point, when it had been over a year since my last fill-up, I had to deliberately run the car on gas just to drain what was still left in the tank and refill it before the gas got too stale.

I still don't feel comfortable going all-electric. I like the security of knowing I can always extend my range by running on gas. Where I live in the northeast winter weather cuts into the the all-electric range a lot compared to summer driving.

I hope by time I'm ready for a new car something affordable with a 200+ mile range (even in winter) will be available. At that point, I'd being willing to go all-electric instead of a plug-in hybrid.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 10:13 AM

Star Member hunter (32,467 posts)

34. No cars would be even better.

We need to restructure our cities such that car ownership is unnecessary.

This planet cannot support car ownership, electric or not, for every adult human.

There are simply too many of us.

I don't think car ownership is an essential component of human happiness. Indeed cars are a source of great misery to people who can't really afford them but must have them to get to work. And for some reason we seem to ignore people who are killed or maimed by cars every day.

My greatest hypocrisy as an environmentalist is that I own a car.

Fortunately I work at home and don't have to drive most days, especially during this covid-19 crisis.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 10:28 AM

Star Member Generic Brad (13,051 posts)

35. They currently take too long to recharge

If you could go to a fuel station and snap in a replacement fuel cell and be on your way in less than 5 minutes, I'm in. I need the option of being able to drive beyond the vehicle's single charge range on the same day.

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Response to Zorro (Original post)

Sat Jan 16, 2021, 02:08 PM

Star Member hardluck (374 posts)

37. Yeah, no thanks

My power has been shut off for 24-48 hours 5 times since Thanksgiving because of high winds in SoCal. Last thing I want is a car that is reliant on an unreliable electrical system.

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