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Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:36 AM

NO to the suggestion of Biden Agenda in the morning, Senate Trial in the afternoon.

MJ are talking about this and there seems to be a consensus of doing both at the same time, but to do so means that if this Senate Trial goes on for weeks (and Republicans will try stretch it out, creating as much hate/heat as possible), it HALVES the time spent on Biden's Agenda, and there is NO guarantee of a conviction !!!

Nancy Pelosi never goes into a vote without knowing the how many votes she has. She, Clyburne and even Biden want to wait until the 100 days are past.

They should stick to attacking Covid, organizing vaccinations, supporting the economy, confirming nominations during the first 100 days.

During that 100 days, more and more information will be coming out about what happened and GOP connivance in the sedition, and a better case can be made when sunlight is shone on this.

I understand the thirst for revenge, but it won't be taken up until Trump is out of office regardless, and even IF McConnell allows 17 Senators to break ranks and convict. What he REALLY wants is for Trump to be barred from running in 2024 because Republicans don't have the guts to do it. It's a trap.

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Reply NO to the suggestion of Biden Agenda in the morning, Senate Trial in the afternoon. (Original post)
OnDoutside Jan 14 OP
634-5789 Jan 14 #1
OnDoutside Jan 14 #2
634-5789 Jan 14 #3
OnDoutside Jan 14 #9
dawg day Jan 14 #21
OnDoutside Jan 14 #36
Captain Zero Jan 14 #52
OnDoutside Jan 14 #54
njhoneybadger Jan 14 #4
still_one Jan 14 #5
OnDoutside Jan 14 #10
still_one Jan 14 #11
OnDoutside Jan 14 #14
jcgoldie Jan 14 #16
OnDoutside Jan 14 #18
Rorey Jan 14 #6
Klaralven Jan 14 #7
OnDoutside Jan 14 #12
Klaralven Jan 14 #19
OnDoutside Jan 14 #20
Maru Kitteh Jan 14 #23
Klaralven Jan 14 #47
DeminPennswoods Jan 14 #48
octoberlib Jan 14 #8
OnDoutside Jan 14 #13
Squinch Jan 14 #15
OnDoutside Jan 14 #17
lagomorph777 Jan 14 #35
servermsh Jan 14 #22
ecstatic Jan 14 #24
thucythucy Jan 14 #25
ecstatic Jan 14 #29
thucythucy Jan 14 #53
uponit7771 Jan 14 #26
OnDoutside Jan 14 #31
lagomorph777 Jan 14 #27
OnDoutside Jan 14 #33
bullwinkle428 Jan 14 #28
ecstatic Jan 14 #30
OnDoutside Jan 14 #43
NYC Liberal Jan 14 #46
OnDoutside Jan 14 #49
OnDoutside Jan 14 #32
jcgoldie Jan 14 #37
Turin_C3PO Jan 14 #40
MyNameGoesHere Jan 14 #41
karynnj Jan 14 #34
Turin_C3PO Jan 14 #38
kentuck Jan 14 #39
OnDoutside Jan 14 #42
kentuck Jan 14 #44
OnDoutside Jan 14 #45
kentuck Jan 14 #51
OnDoutside Jan 14 #56
DeminPennswoods Jan 14 #50
OnDoutside Jan 14 #55
DeminPennswoods Jan 14 #57
OnDoutside Jan 14 #58

Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:40 AM

1. If #MoscowMitch was a man of his word

Friday they would be kicking Tubby McTraitor to the curb.

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Response to 634-5789 (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:43 AM

2. He's already re-confirmed that he wouldn't take it up until Biden took over. He's certainly a man

of his word, but not in a good way !!!

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:45 AM

3. And that's the problem.

He will try to drag this out as long as he can...loss of interest among ReThugs, etc...

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Response to 634-5789 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:55 AM

9. For sure. Personally I have always thought the biggest win in Congress would be to see him be

Impeached a second time, and have that stain follow him for the remainder of his life. The only way he would be convicted is if McConnell wanted to make sure Trump was barred from running in 2024, so he could spend the next 2-4 years building up a new narrative of Donald Who ? If Trump is still hanging around as a daily reminder to the voting public of Republican complicity during the Trump years, they will never be able to move on, and a successful Biden Administration will only increase in popularity.

There are other wins to be had against Trump, with lots of Federal (unless President Pence pardons him) and State criminal investigations.

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Response to 634-5789 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:50 AM

21. McConnell won't be in charge

N one more week.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:00 AM

36. You still need 17 Republicans though, and if McConnell says no, you'd be lucky to get one

or two, and what have you won ? Spent all that time on a Trial where Trump is not only not convicted, had already left office and you've slowed the momentum of Biden's agenda in his first 100 days.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 10:01 AM

52. What about 1 day a week is Trial Day?

Or 1 day a week starting in the last month of the 100 days, then afternoons after that.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 10:40 AM

54. I would take that, and a lot of evidence would have been collected by then too.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:47 AM

4. McConnell is a wiley SOB

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:49 AM

5. This isn't about revenge. There was an attempt to kill our Senators and Congress people, and

bring down our government through insurrection, and that threat still exists, and is very real.

That being said, I don't have any issue if the Senate trial is delayed for 100 days. That would allow various investigations behind the scenes to gather evidence of the crimes, and just how far it went, and who was involved

and as the OP said it would allow an acceleration of the much need aid to deal with the pandemic, economy, and appointments to get the government running


This is the DU member formerly known as still_one.

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Response to still_one (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:59 AM

10. Yes, there will be criminal investigations about his complicity,but he could already have received a

pardon in the next few days by President Pence. I'm not talking about not having a Senate Trial, but let's doing at a timing that suits Democrats, not Republicans.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:02 AM

11. The Senate Trial is a requirement now since trump has been impeached. When the schedule it

will be up to the Democrats since they have the majority as you said


This is the DU member formerly known as still_one.

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Response to still_one (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:13 AM

14. Yes, all I hope is that they do it in a manner that suits their purposes. The clock is stopped in 6

days, and he will have no power to damage. In fact he would be silly, legally, to be sticking his neck up beyond that, such is his criminal liability.

If Pence pardons him, can he still go before a Senate Trial ? I suspect he can.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:23 AM

16. Pardons have nothing to do with impeachment trial

It is not a criminal trial .

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:26 AM

18. We're good then.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:51 AM

6. I agree

We need to prioritize properly in order to minimize the loss of life that trump has caused, along with saving our country and the planet. There will be plenty of time to hold trump to account.

We can be patient. I didn't think we'd make it through these last four years, and then especially through this past year. But we're still standing as a democracy, and there's light at the end of the tunnel in a lot of areas.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:52 AM

7. Justice Roberts won't sit around for a weeks long trial.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:08 AM

12. Articles were delivered on Jan 15, 2020 while the vote took place on Feb 5, 2020. That's 3 weeks and

it was a completely rushed process by McConnell. You could be taking about a 5 or 6 week process.

Bill Clinton's Artlices were delivered about Dec 19, 1998, and the vote took place on Feb 9, 1999.

This has potential to screw the momentum of Biden's first 100 days.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:28 AM

19. Trial in the Senate began 1/22 and ended 2/5, and mornings were reserved for Senate business.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:30 AM

20. Only because McConnell set a very tight agenda. I include the wider dates because it

dominated the media airspace, and this will too. Biden wouldn't get a look in.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:55 AM

23. Yes, he would if required. Are we so used to toddlers with

a less than 0 attention span that we expect such behavior now?

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:36 AM

47. The articles of impeachment are 4 pages, dealing with 2 events.

If printed with normal typography they would be 2 pages.

They deal almost exclusively with the speech and mob action of 1/6 and the prior phone call between Trump and the Georgia Secretary of State.

It's not a complicated matter. I think that the presiding Judge would encourage the Senate to come to the point.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:47 AM

48. Norm Eisen was asked about that

and said that for an official no longer in office, the CJ might not have to preside. It could devolve to the president of the Senate who would be VP Harris, but of course, it's problematic because she's a Dem. The Senate pro tem is Leahy, longest serving member of the majority party.
This is the DU member formerly known as DeminPennswoods.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 06:54 AM

8. Biden's got to get his cabinet confirmed.

It will be bifurcated.
This is the DU member formerly known as octoberlib.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:09 AM

13. There was no investigation done for this Impeachment, they will have to do an investigation

before a Senate Trial.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:19 AM

15. Why? What is there to investigate? We all saw it.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:25 AM

17. I hear you, but "We saw it on tv" might not be the ideal case to go into a Senate Trial with ;)

You will get 50 votes (well 48/49) votes regardless, but to get to 67 votes you will need an overwhelmingly compelling case (if for nothing else than to give those Repugs cover for voting to convict).

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:56 AM

35. Yes, and that investigation is going to uncover a lot of GOP crimes.

We don't need to rush it; time will be on our side.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:52 AM

22. They can send impeachment to committee

The committee can do a full investigation while the full Senate does normal work 100% of the day.

Don't listen to Morning Joe.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:56 AM

24. Bringing up the impeachment trial 3 months later would not be smart

We all know that Americans have very short memories. Our country was just attacked. People are angry. People want JUSTICE. Strike while the iron is hot!

Delaying the trial would all but guarantee tRump's acquittal, not to mention public backlash, because there will always be new problems and crises that we're facing as a nation. You have to address each crisis as it comes.

As a party, we spend way too much time worried about what republicans might do. Repubs are NOT brilliant strategists, they just benefit from timid Democrats who refuse to fight fire with fire. Crimes were committed and tRump MUST be held accountable. Period. It's a very simple concept and yet some people are still overthinking / overcomplicating it.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:20 AM

25. That depends on what comes out in these next weeks and months.

Yes, Americans are famous for having short attention spans and being easily distracted.

But if there is a drip drip drip of damning revelations this might turn the tide.

For instance--if the NSA releases a recording of Trump talking to "patriots" and encouraging violence--even hinting or openly suggesting they kill Speaker Pelosi and VP Pence--public reaction would be furious. If there is solid evidence that GOP representatives plotted with the mob, this would also be damning--not only to Trump but to the entire GOP.

Such revelations--released to the public at strategic times--would help pass the Biden agenda, providing a groundswell of support for Democrats and loathing for Republicans. We haven't even seen the worst of the videos. We haven't heard testimony from Capitol Police. All of this would be part of the mix.

There might also be more articles of impeachment to add to the one article already approved.

I have no problem contrasting the steady stream of revelations damning to the GOP with a Biden administration and Democratic House and Senate passing a flurry of measures to deal with the pandemic and the collapsed economy.

A Congress working full time on repairing the damage--passing a new voting rights act and securing our elections infrastructure for starters--is essential. Once that happens we can have a full blown trial with witnesses, including Trump insiders who can testify to the man's raging thirst for absolute power.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:39 AM

29. I don't think that's necessary. They all know what tRump did

Even the little bit we know at this moment is enough: During the attack, tRump was on the phone trying to get more votes to overturn the election. For nearly 2 hours, congressional leaders begged and pleaded for him to send military backup and to tell his seditionists to stand down. He fucking refused. Instead, he sat on his fat ass, glued to the TV... giddy about the violent scene that was unfolding at the Capitol.

The bottom line is that Pence had to break the chain of command to order the National Guard, because trump and the goons he installed at the Pentagon refused to. It can be argued that tRump wanted Pence and every single member of Congress to be killed.

There's no need for a long, drawn out drip drip, IMO.

Get the traitors and patriots on record, quickly, then move on. tRump might be dead long before 2024, so it's nothing to lose sleep over.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 10:09 AM

53. You may be right.

Either way, I'd still like to see a thorough investigation, not only of this latest outrage, but all the other corrupt crap we know the Trumps and their enablers have pulled these past four years.

Best wishes,

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:23 AM

26. There are multiple investigations going on, that won't get anywhere till months from now

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:48 AM

31. But that's the problem, what's the most that Democrats will get out of it, if you start it on Jan 21

or whatever ?

Let's say 67 Senators DO convict him, he doesn't go to jail and he will already have left office ! He will not be held accountable by this. Did you think he would be ? He's already stained by Impeachment, twice.

There is another motion they can then bring, and that is to bar him from ever running for office again. Who wins in that situation ? You may well argue that it's the American people, but for a large portion of that 74m it makes him a martyr. Worst of all, it will most certainly benefit the Republican Party because they won't have to stand up to Trump and stop him themselves, and don't forget that 197 of them voted to against Impeachment last night. Mitch McConnell would LOVE if the Democrats did his dirty work for him, so he could then create a new narrative, and the GOP would lie their way out of it.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:27 AM

27. Dragging it out could play into our hands. More and more damning facts will emerge,

and more and more Repiglicans will be implicated.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:52 AM

33. Yes, I agree, get all the facts and start all those criminal cases. I think there's a ton of

evidence out there.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:28 AM

28. I think DUers need to prepare themselves for the very likely inevitability -

that Joe Biden will say, "For the good of the country, we need to move forward, given so much on our plate, etc....", and he will agree to drop the idea of the Senate trial.

The insurrection, on the other hand, needs to be fully addressed, and I'm sure Joe knows this more than anyone. He has to realize the personal threat to him and Kamala Harris is bigger than it ever was to Barack Obama, and we know how real it was in his case over that 8-year period.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:42 AM

30. I hope not because that's my red line and he would have lost my support

Biden promised that he will stay out of it and let the DOJ handle it. I expect and trust that he will keep that promise, even if it's because he's forced to by his advisors and VP Harris.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:15 AM

43. That's two separate things, a Senate Trial versus a DOJ criminal investigation. Garland decides on

DOJ investigations, not Biden, and that is certainly going to happen. Bullwinkle428 was talking about the Senate Trial, which is a bit pointless after Trump has left office.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:31 AM

46. It's far from pointless. It would allow him to be disqualified from ever holding office again

if convicted.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:47 AM

49. It's pointless for the Democratic Party. That would be a huge win for the Republican Party.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:51 AM

32. You could be right, about eventually moving on. If they pass all the bills i expect them to, and

Covid under control, the economy starting to improve and lots of criminal cases happening, I think people will accept it, especially as it would be an exercise in futility to not have a Trial and Removal before Jan 20.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:02 AM

37. Its not up to Joe Biden

The House impeached, the constitution says the Senate must have a trial.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:05 AM

40. I don't think Biden will get involved.

That goes for both Senate conviction and DOJ prosecution. Heíll let the respective institutions do their jobs.
This is the DU member formerly known as Turin_C3PO.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:08 AM

41. Or he might

Just say the legislative branch of government is a co-equal branch and I am going to stay out of it as the Constitution provides guidance on impeachment. He doesn't need to do anything actually because it's not in his job description to dictate to congress.
This is the DU member formerly known as MyNameGoesHere.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:55 AM

34. Waiting the 100 days makes sense given the fact that it is unlikely to remove Trump earlier

I do think that one reason to give is that after he is out of office, that 100 days not only allows Biden to get his cabinet and focus on his agenda on many many important issues, but to allow the indictments of people who invaded the capitol.

Not immediately convicting Trump doesn't mean this goes away.. The AG and DOJ, FBI should investigate how this happened and aspart of that, Trump's role. Many Republicans yesterday, while expressing dismay for Trump's actions, complained about the speed of the process as their excuse. 100 days might allow some Republicans to reject Trump.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:04 AM

38. Makes sense.

Since itís not going to happen before he leaves office, we might as well wait 100 days as the evidence for sedition mounts.
This is the DU member formerly known as Turin_C3PO.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:04 AM

39. It assumes the Biden agenda will move quicker if there is no accountability for Trump.

I think the opposite may be true?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:10 AM

42. How so ?

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:15 AM

44. I don't think it will have much bearing on Biden's agenda.

But, it might be better if they let the passions cool and let the evidence mount. The 100 days might be a good idea?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:27 AM

45. It's the 100 days that I'm more concerned with. The reality is that the time to have a Senate Trial

is today, and the next best time is tomorrow. Once it gets beyond Jan 20th, it fades in relevance, and at that point the DOJ criminal investigation is the best game in town.

Making sure the eyes of America are focused on the new bills being passed through Congress, showing people that yes, Government is working at last.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:54 AM

51. If Trump continues to impose himself on Party politics after he leaves office....

...that may determine whether or not the Senate chooses to pursue a "trial"?

I don't think it is anything the Democrats are relishing in doing? It will be done more out of necessity.

They would prefer to work on the Biden agenda, in my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 11:00 AM

56. That's the thing, he would be sticking around Republican Party politics like a bad smell, and there

would be little McConnell could do about it. Let's not forget that Trump on the ballot brought over 80m people voting for the Biden, and re-captured the Senate. The Repugs want Trump gone, but don't have the balls to do it themselves.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:50 AM

50. I think Schumer and Pelosi should set up a 9/11 style Commission

Last edited Thu Jan 14, 2021, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)

to investigate. There's new information coming out every day. My sense now is a lot more uncover and to come out. When enough evidence is out, then proceed with impeachment.
This is the DU member formerly known as DeminPennswoods.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 10:41 AM

55. Or a Special Counsel with actual powers of investigation ? Would a Commission include Republicans ?

But yes, let's get the evidence at least.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 11:28 AM

57. IMO, a non-partisan commission would be best

This takes the investigation off the plate of both Congress and Biden and DoJ. It would be strictly fact-finding with the ability to make recommendations.

I was thinking about who might serve as chairs. Perhaps Dan Coates, who's respected by both sides, and Doug Jones, also respected by both sides, or Claire McCaskill. Some terrorism experts, maybe the Clint Watts/Chris Krebs of the world, some scholars/academics who study insurgencies, then professional staff trained in investigations.
This is the DU member formerly known as DeminPennswoods.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 01:13 PM

58. That would be a pretty great group for sure.

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