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Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:51 AM

Malcolm Nance just made a chilling point.

Last edited Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:14 AM - Edit history (4)

Many of the people who were in the line of succession for government were in the Capitol during the breach. If they were killed, that would have left drumpf as a monarch.

If you have signalboost on sirius, please listen to a replay of Nance on today's program. It will make you more than concerned. The depths of the attempted coup on the government is greater than we can even imagine or has been reported.

It has to have been orchestrated through drumpf and his minions.

Sirius ch 127
.............................................................................................................................................................................
Malcolm Nance on NPR

https://www.wnyc.org/story/the-brian-lehrer-show-2021-01-07

98 replies, 8947 views

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Reply Malcolm Nance just made a chilling point. (Original post)
mfcorey1 Jan 8 OP
True Dough Jan 8 #1
Fullduplexxx Jan 8 #7
COL Mustard Jan 8 #31
wnylib Jan 8 #38
llashram Jan 8 #45
PTWB Jan 8 #54
Fullduplexxx Jan 8 #60
Butterflylady Jan 8 #75
getagrip_already Jan 8 #77
Fullduplexxx Jan 8 #91
True Dough Jan 8 #40
dansolo Jan 8 #64
haele Jan 8 #80
True Dough Jan 8 #84
SoonerPride Jan 8 #28
wnylib Jan 8 #41
2naSalit Jan 8 #65
KPN Jan 8 #79
getagrip_already Jan 8 #82
dlk Jan 8 #53
Kid Berwyn Jan 8 #2
no_hypocrisy Jan 8 #3
Thunderbeast Jan 8 #8
no_hypocrisy Jan 8 #9
roscoeroscoe Jan 8 #14
COL Mustard Jan 8 #33
Cuthbert Allgood Jan 8 #35
SheltieLover Jan 8 #4
PCIntern Jan 8 #5
nam78_two Jan 8 #21
Tarc Jan 8 #36
wnylib Jan 8 #46
nam78_two Jan 8 #92
wnylib Jan 8 #94
nam78_two Jan 8 #96
DLCWIdem Jan 8 #62
judesedit Jan 8 #6
wnylib Jan 8 #48
Liberal In Texas Jan 8 #10
padah513 Jan 8 #19
niyad Jan 8 #42
Klaralven Jan 8 #11
brooklynite Jan 8 #12
ArizonaLib Jan 8 #59
milestogo Jan 8 #13
C_U_L8R Jan 8 #15
wnylib Jan 8 #52
smb Jan 8 #73
wnylib Jan 8 #81
debsy Jan 8 #16
wnylib Jan 8 #74
Ligyron Jan 8 #17
safeinOhio Jan 8 #68
Ligyron Jan 8 #88
StarfishSaver Jan 8 #18
ShazzieB Jan 8 #71
hadEnuf Jan 8 #76
louis-t Jan 8 #20
wnylib Jan 8 #22
moonscape Jan 8 #25
wnylib Jan 8 #34
moonscape Jan 8 #43
wnylib Jan 8 #72
Cuthbert Allgood Jan 8 #37
JCMach1 Jan 8 #23
Upthevibe Jan 8 #24
mfcorey1 Jan 8 #26
Roisin Ni Fiachra Jan 8 #27
dflprincess Jan 8 #29
Chemisse Jan 8 #61
dflprincess Jan 8 #87
Bettie Jan 8 #30
American Welshman Jan 8 #32
haele Jan 8 #86
catbyte Jan 8 #39
PatSeg Jan 8 #44
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PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 8 #50
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dlk Jan 8 #55
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Skraxx Jan 8 #57
seta1950 Jan 8 #58
2naSalit Jan 8 #63
OnDoutside Jan 8 #66
onetexan Jan 8 #67
dansolo Jan 8 #69
themaguffin Jan 8 #70
people Jan 8 #78
UCmeNdc Jan 8 #83
station agent Jan 8 #85
UCmeNdc Jan 8 #89
Caliman73 Jan 8 #90
misanthrope Jan 8 #93
Kashkakat v.2.0 Jan 8 #97
Hekate Jan 9 #98

Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:54 AM

1. I still cannot get over the lack of security

America's political leaders were left far too vulnerable. It's mind-boggling and deeply troubling.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:06 AM

7. The capitol police were complicit

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:24 AM

31. If You Want To Blast Their Leadership, That's Fine

But don't take it out on the rank and file cops who were in the line of fire. Given what they had to deal with, I think they did about as well as they could be expected to.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:31 AM

38. Agree. The leadership is guilty of

incompetence at best, or collusion at worst.

Although some of the individual Capitol police appear to have been too chummy with the terrorists, many of them performed heroically in protecting the members of Congress, especially considering how outnumbered they were.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:48 AM

45. true this

when I saw that one lone Capitol policeman backing, backing, backing and then getting out of Dodge my first reaction was WTH you doin' son? Then the crowd that came after him up the stairs, all white, he AA, I deemed I would have made a strategic withdrawal myself. He only had a nightstick and those terrorists were loaded for bear. The CP who wanted to do their job were wholly at a deficit in facing a bunch of trump-pets being "wild". I am trying to err on the side of rational, sensible and from experience myself. He might have seen that other CP who was beaten to death, anything.

Someone higher up and nefarious put these cops lives in extreme jeopardy. CP leadership? To a degree, yes. But the pissant of a potus and his WH denied the National Guard entrance into this melee. And this was done intentionally so the "wilding" terrorists/insurrectionists could wreak as much damage as possible. Trump then lied to everyone's face and said he called out the guard.

American democracy has entered a window of great danger and uncertainty with this goddamn cabal led by potus, Ivanka and Stephen(Goebbel)Miller.

Just saying I agree.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:05 AM

54. How do you account for the uniformed officers who opened the barricades

And waved the mob through? It’s on video.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:11 AM

60. Even the one posing for selfies? Even the ones that helped move bafficades

Even the ones who did not shot the invaders ? They (maybe , maybe not all ) were complicit

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:52 AM

75. Even the guy taking selfies with the terrorists?

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:56 AM

77. How bout the helpful officer who told the terrorists where to find schumers office?

Yes, hold leadership accountable. But there were plenty of bad actors on the front lines. Remember that cop who calmly walked down the line of handcuffed protesters and pepper sprayed them directly in the face? Yeah, he is probably still there too.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 02:28 PM

91. Here is a video of the capitol police holding the doors open for the terrorists as they left

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:32 AM

40. Since I wrote my post, I just listened to The Daily podcast

The episode today is titled "How They Stormed Congress."

It makes clear that what happened at the Capitol was, like most things, a complex situation. One factor I had not heard previously was that, days before the incident, Mayor Bowser had written a letter to the powers that be requesting that the National Guard not be deployed in the streets in a big show of force, as happened in D.C. previously and in other cities like Portland.

So, not to suggest Mayor Bowser is completely at fault, but there are layers to what occurred and it's not as simple as blaming the police force or blaming Trump alone (I can't believe I'm writing that -- he's largely responsible for what happened, no doubt, but there was multiple factors at play).

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Response to True Dough (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:13 AM

64. Mayor Brown may have been lied to

Members of Congress were assured that the Capital Police would be able to manage the crowds. That may be the reason why the National Guard wasn't considered necessary. The mayor was probably told by the (now resigned) Chief of Police that there would be enough police presence.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:00 AM

80. On our local PBS shows, the local Political reporter was interviewing Congressman Juan Vargas -

(My congresscritter)
This is his fifth term, and in his first two terms, he was on the committee that oversaw the Capitol Police. He knew many of the Capitol Police there on Wednesday, and one of the things he mentioned, the ones he talked while they were being evacuated to were surprised that morning they were told to "Roll Light" (business as usual) rather than "Roll Heavy", which is what they do whenever there's a protest or 1st Amendment event planned in the DC area. They were also upset there was no DC or National Guard backup.

As a side, Juan Vargas had been a Jesuit Seminarian with his first posting to El Salvador just after the worst of the Civil war. He said this reminded him of some of the worst of events going on while he was posted there, gunmen just wandering into federal and local government, kidnapping political opponents or just shooting them.

Haele

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Response to haele (Reply #80)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:17 AM

84. Interesting

There are many pieces to this puzzle. I'm just glad that it didn't end with any dead Dem congressmen or senators.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:15 AM

28. It was planned that way

The lack of adequate security was part of the plot

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:32 AM

41. It sure looks that way.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:14 AM

65. Damn sure was.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:57 AM

79. Yup. The simple fact is there was plenty plus security

in place for the Black Lives Matter rally. The treasonous “Save Our Nation” rally was widely known to involve high profile white supremacist and other organized (2nd Amendment) militia groups with a history of violence. There was never any question that there would be a mob mentality and consequent violence. The absence of adequate and effective law enforcement was absolutely intentional.

Chalking this up to mob mentality and incompetent planning is naive.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:06 AM

82. The same people are planning the inauguration security, and.....

the pride boyz have already said they are going incognito......

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:04 AM

53. The lack of security was by design

The coordination between agencies of this terrorist attack is the most chilling of all.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:55 AM

2. What a coincidence.

Continuity of Grifter.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:55 AM

3. Agreed. They were pegged for assassination.

There were individuals who demanded to know where Mike Pence was. (Start at the top.)

OTOH all they needed was Pence. Then Trump could name Ivanka as VP, resign, and let her be President for less than two weeks. And it would be legal. (There would be no succession to Nancy Pelosi as SOTH as Trump would still be in the presidency.)

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:12 AM

8. A new VP requires approval of Congress.

No president can just "name" a new VP.

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Response to Thunderbeast (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:13 AM

9. Great point. Thanks!

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Response to Thunderbeast (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:39 AM

14. There you go with that logic

That's never held Trump back

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:26 AM

33. Any New VP Under Those Circumstances Would Have To Be Confirmed

By at least the Senate. I think the House has a role also, but it's only been used twice...when Ford became VP and then when he appointed Rockefeller as VP. And I was quite young then...in high school so didn't know too much about it.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:27 AM

35. Both chambers have to approve a VP appointment

Regardless of the circumstances.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:58 AM

4. Absolutely!

I was thinking of this when it was happening! Omg!

Let's hope legislators realize this and vote YES to impeach!

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 07:59 AM

5. I have virtually no doubt

That Certain people were tasked with finding these people in the line of succession. If the governor of Michigan faced kidnapping, rape, torture, and execution, then it doesn’t take much to convince me that this was a murderous throng, hell-bent on destroying the government

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:01 AM

21. Is that accurate?

I did not see any reference to rape or torture wrt the Whitmer plot. The mainstream stuff I saw mentioned kidnapping and execution, but not rape and torture.

I am not splitting hairs. It is just that there is so much inaccurate rubbish online that one feels obligated to correct anything inaccurate.

I made the mistake of searching for "larpers and trump" and it is more scary to see actual websites that peddle drivel like qanon pop-up, than to hear about them via mainstream sources.

I did not want to or dare to click on any of the links to qanon like sites- it is just asking to get infected with malware to click on sites like that.

It is hard to believe that people actually believe in alternate realities like qanon? How can people seriously believe such drivel. There are lots of politicians and other public figures I disapprove of. But there is a difference between disliking politicians and calling them pedophiles or rapists with no proof at all, based on symbolism you see in typoes or coincidences.

In fact I am not going to post on anything controversial. The internet scares me increasingly.


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Response to nam78_two (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:27 AM

36. If a bunch of misogynist white supremacists has actually manage to snatch Gov. Whitmer

I have little doubt that they would have been able to restrain themselves with their degradations.

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Response to nam78_two (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:50 AM

46. I could be wrong on this, but I

think I remember that, after kidnapping her, they intended to use torture in a mock trial to force her to confess to various "crimes" they believed her to be guilty of. They were going to tape it, including her execution.

I don't remember any mention of rape. However, I agree with another post here that a bunch of angry, hate-filled misogynists would most likely have included rape, whether ot not they discussed or threatened it in advance. Rape is not an act of lust. It is a crime of hatred and power dominance.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 02:32 PM

92. Hmmm-I had decided to stick to science and wildlife

But, in case anyone read my posts, I have an obligation to clean up. I feel guilty about any/all thoughtless speech I put on the net. Maybe it is as useless as trying to reason with flat earthers but..fwiw..I have posted casually for months and for all I know such could have some unintended negative consequences.

I am not sure how to address this most delicately and in a logically consistent manner.
Maybe we have to be sticklers for accuracy since a subset at least of right wing people are selling imaginary stories about non-existent paedophile rings. There are real ones out there...It is not exactly stuff I like to read about, but this one I remember:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/sep/09/childrensservices

But simply calling everyone you oppose a pedophile etc. is absurd.
The point is, when you make serious allegations, they should have some foundation. I cannot think of a single GOP politician I like. But I don't make up random crap about them. Or make specific foundationless allegations. Yeah there is generally a lot of violence against women, gang rapes are not uncommon where I live. But those are generalizations. I am not saying right wing politicians all do that here though there are documented cases now of some who did commit rape. But these were real stories the msm printed. The problem with suspecting every respectable institution is that eventually the world makes no sense and you can no longer distinguish real threats from bogus ones.

But there is no indication that this specific set of people planned that (none that I saw). Of course vague generalities (which in fairness is all you have mentioned), could indicate that they might have, but in point of fact these specific violenr nuts did not mention that.

The point is that tonight a lot of Trumpers who basically backed this philosophically (but did not quite engage in sedition directly) are probably feeling threatened and scared. And yes they are Trumpers etc. but calling all sorts of ill-informed or manipulated blowhards, seditionists is not really consistent with liberal values, democracy. I don't say that out of ignorance of the right wing privilege on display. I am merely saying recognition of majoritarian group provilege has to be balanced with eschewing their nutty "bring out the guilotine" responses.


Imagine, if in the aftermath of an attack by some other group, the GOPers called for "hanging them all" etc. And that included some morons whose rights the GOP would then violate because of moronic media posts.

Trump incited this along with his enablers. But some sort of factually accurate, legally valid set of rules are needed re the handling of who were not actively involved in the attack but posted stupid shit on the net.

The GOP plays dirty far more (in my unscientific estimation) than we do. and I don't like using their tactics.

With my own wretched timing, I posted rude stuff about Romney yesterday. But, I was not saying he should be harmed in any way. I merely meant that he was going to run again in 2024 and is a standard issue annoying conservative. By theatre I meant his ..well the guy just annoys me but he is not a traitor etc. Just a normal sleazebag GOPer who will have lousy policy prescriptions on stuff like climate change.

But still, was I aware that he was in danger, I would not have said that. Who the hell knows if anything ill-considered and negative on the net has bad effects at volatile times.

Anyway, I should have shut up about Romney and stay
away from stuff unconnected with animals, wildlife etc.

I have no fondness for abrupt, dramatic exits or anything that savors of histrionics, so I am not quitting non work internet use completely. Noone (hopefully reads my lame rants but in case some nut did, I would feel very guilty if I contributed to their radicalization, sense of grievance etc.) But I will phase it out slowly focusing solely on non controversial animal and science stuff. And well, if you find evolution or climate change controversial, that..is silly. Increasingly poking around net, except on the dullest stuff scares me.
And anyway, like Boxer from Animal Farm, I should work harder instead.
I am not even sure why I started using the net for non work stuff again 6 months back. I hate poking around with stuff with unclear effects such as the internet in 2020. It is simply no longer the old world where no attention, influence or other nutty industries existed and people casually posted stuff on internet forums.

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Response to nam78_two (Reply #92)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 04:17 PM

94. I have no idea what you are running

on about with your references to politicians and not labeling them all the same. Or of "sticking to science" when I was posting about a non science topic. Perhaps the word you want is "facts" not science.

I was referring to a RW gang (not politicians) who were caught by the FBI before they were able to carry out a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. According to information about it from the FBI their plan was to try her for supposed crimes and to kill her afterward.

The 13 men arrested in the plot had ties to the militia group, Wolverine Watchmen. They supported the views of the Boogaloo movement. They are anti government. They purchased a taser, explosives, protective gear, guns and amunition to carry out their plot. They discussed various ways to deal with Whitmer. All of them included a trial for "treason." They had a list of other public and government officials to kidnap. One idea they discussed was to hold televised executions of their captives over a period of a week. Another was to lock them in a building and set it on fire.

One idea discussed about Whitmer was to leave her in a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan after disabling the motor.

All of those treatments contain a degree of torture. Just the kidnapping alone is a formnof psychological torture.

They referred to Whitmer as "tyrannical" because of her pandemic shutdowns and in their discussions called her "that b---ch."

It's not an issue of political views. They plotted crimes.

They hate authority, but were planning to use authoritarian tactics in their kidnapping and murder plans, assuming life and death authority over someone they disagreed with politically.

There is no mention of rape in the articles I just re-read. As I said in my post, I was not certain about that.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #94)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:59 PM

96. Apologies-I was mixing up multiple streams of consciousness

Last edited Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:29 PM - Edit history (2)

And not expressing my thoughts coherently.

1) I had revisited the Whitmer plot and saw that she was targeted because her public profile was raised merely for doing her job conscientously. Which makes one wonder (given that you never know who reads stuff of on the internet), if it is safe even for random nobodies to post about anything that is not innocuous-such as science.

2) One of my points about politicians had to do with the fact that people like these qanon cultists appear to be getting riled up because they believe entirely baseless conspiracies. And so, if anything even slightly inaccurate is posted about right wing militia groups -whom in all probability some of qanon at least support (please note all the qualifiers I used) - they will probably double down on their deliberate or self deceptive lies and make false equivalences between actually large disinformation campaigns like qanon and relatively minor inaccuracies found on left leaning forums. To that extent (and I think we both agree), there is no reference to rape in the Whitmer plot, which was horrifying enough without it.

3) My other point about politicians was that there are parts of the world where politicians or at least people in positions of power and authority do get away with targeting the families of rape victims who complain and so on.

This is a recent case in the news in India:
https://theprint.in/politics/sengar-in-jail-his-wife-is-canvassing-for-bjp-as-unnaos-bangarmau-bypoll-sees-3-corner-fight/533750/

This is an older one from Saudi Arabia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_rape_case

So retaliatory or violent acts against women in general and those who complain or have a raised public profile are not uncommon in any part of the world. And retaliatory acts against journalists occur in all sorts of undemocratic dictator states like China, Russia etc.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-wuhan-journalist-trial-coronavirus/2020/12/28/01fac40c-48b7-11eb-97b6-4eb9f72ff46b_story.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia


My main point from that still incoherent post is about -a) The importance of accuracy when criticizing anyone one dislikes or even likes. Because, a subset of people, who have no factual basis for supporting the kinds of politicians (Trump) no one should support, rely on fraudulent stories; the discrediting of all mainstream news sources etc. to justify their support of nuts- a way of saving face maybe.

b) Qanon like drivel is a real nuisance to actually responsible and serious organizations combating real problems like child trafficking and violence against women.
https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-qanon-child-sex-trafficking-20201028-eclhifensfdqlnduqodoehexji-story.html

All that reinforces the importance of distinguishing non-specific generalizations from accuracy wrt specific crimes like the plot against Whitmer.
My original response was to a long time duer who I think got the rape part of that specific plot wrong. And while online trolls and misogynists routinely make rape threats against women (I don't even feel the need to post links in support of that one), in this specific case where an actual crime was planned, I did not see any references to rape.

I responded to the post impulsively solely because it made the Whitmer plot sound even scarier than kidnapping and execution. Rape and gang rape, in particular, are arguably the worst forms of torture.
And the point of stories like these from a propaganda standpoint is, I suspect, to frighten people in general. This has to be why Trump has been speeding up executions. I assume it is some form of sociopathic messaging-the guy behaves more like a mobster than like a normal politician. What is possibly to be gained by executing people as they have been doing? At first it seems like pure sociopathy. But possibly it is a calculation or at least a subconscious calculation that it generally frightens people-especially people who disagree with you politically. It works against democracy. Weaponized trolling, actual executions, failed but scary plots etc. make people afraid to have any public profile or to even go about their lives without public profiles (as there is so much needless, endemic surveillance). I am ok with surveillance that is non invasive and aimed solely at stopping violent crime.

But most of these tactics Trump etc. use seem aimed at subverting any kind of human rights focused democracy.

That is still incoherent but I cannot do better. I do know that even aside from covid, it is increasingly hard to ignore the state of the world entirely, though I have tried to for longer than I can remember. And I am both afraid of attracting the attention of people lunatic enough to justify human rights abuses, lies and violence. And to inadvertently do something casually/unintentionally that sets off a nut-job who gets triggered by a random post on the net. And the need to make factually accurate statements is more important than ever-the boy who cries wolf etc. Things are inter-connected in incomprehensible ways and I don't want to poke at things (i.e. all of our lives being connected via a largely unregulated internet, with far too many callous, irresponsible, self serving or actively malicious participants, owners etc.)

My apologies if that still does not make sense. It is several streams of consciousness without a specific narrative. But I think I am going to wean myself off the net save for mentally soothing things like science and the bare minimum monitoring of politics needed for basic awareness. I said nothing about not labelling all politicians the same or if I did, that was not my point. I was saying that when you criticize a politician, you have to be careful it is accurate and not open to misinterpretation. I have no idea if I have myself met that standard. I have never made false statements, but I have certainly made broad generalizations in the past. And that is something I would be cautious about going forward. Clearly, language has consequences. I actually did not think the rubbish coming out of Trump's mouth would lead to such major acts of violence, plots etc. I thought they would radicalize people to the -still awful-but less scary extent of having people believe nonsense of increasingly lower quality and make them vote for generally awful Republican candidates of deteriorating quality (from policy to character) and I thought they were horrible on important policy points (e.g. science, environmental issues, animal welfare, education, poverty, equality, regulation of corporations) 17 years ago. And I was and am sure that their policy prescriptions in general are terrible. But, clearly you can do even worse than having terrible policy prescriptions-like inciting violent insurrections and attempting to throw over democracy.

I am usually so disappointed over bad policies (specially wrt the environment), which are bound to have bad consequences in the long run, that this even lower bar was not even needed. But now that is the bar apparently (thanks to people like Trump)-at the minimum not backing violent overthrows of democracy. Which means, I suppose, that bad policy prescriptions are more acceptable now. The right wing race to the bottom continues.

And I am going to take a 6 month break (at least) from the net. I have actually wanted a break from the net for a decade now. It is disruptive, a time-suck and net unhealthy. And anything with not just right wing nuts and misogynists, but also generic trolls, miscreants, hackers, larpers etc should be avoided. I don't touch garbage from companies like Facebook and Google (or any other privacy violating, safety threatening, poorly regulated drivel). I like DU...so I'll probably check back when I have time but I don't now. Anyway it looks like thibgs should settle down now.
At any rate, I am hoping for and expecting all forms of real privacy and safety regulations to sweep in at some point.
I don't think social media in general has come off well in tge Trump era. I hopw other companies and groups that generally operate like this quit at least now.
When my life has stabilized, I will check back here.

That was not a reply to you wnylib, but just generic disengagement from the net for a while. A lot of stuff I have seen in a long time -a series of really bad ideas. I would strictly pare out all but necedsary stuff from my life, except for some animal welfare and environmental groups and a few things off and on like du.
Trollish stuff never ends well-least of all when trolls are elected POTUS.
I prefer complete privacy and solitude save for the bare minimum amount of surveillance needed for actual safety wrt physical violence from external sources. I cannot believe the amount of corrupt, deregulated drivel that even democracies push.

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Response to nam78_two (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:11 AM

62. I did. I definitely saw articles were one of the kidnappers was talking about rape.

Look back at some of the articles in the DU.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:06 AM

6. This had been in the planning since the day Dumpy lost the election

Planting his boys in positions of power. This plan was not created by Dumpy alone. Some trained individuals were involved. Thank God their army wasn't trained and left many clues for the FBI and HHS. Would've been way worse. And what a scary thought. Trump as monarch of this country. 12 more days until this gets closely investigated. Thank you, God, for dems now being in charge. Hallelujah!

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Response to judesedit (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:58 AM

48. +1000

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:14 AM

10. Malcolm Nance is a national treasure. Those terrorists carrying zip-tie restraints are telling.

I wouldn't have put it past them to capture the leading members and run a fast kangaroo court and murder them. There was also some audio I heard from a congressperson that the terrorists knew exactly how to access various parts of the building. There was more planning for this than we know at this point.

Trump needs to be removed and arrested.

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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:58 AM

19. +1000

The zip-ties said it all. I don't want them to find and arrest just the ring leaders, I want everyone who stepped foot inside the Capitol unlawfully to get arrested, tried, and jailed.

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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:34 AM

42. Don't forget the gallows out front.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:33 AM

12. Overwrought Analysis

The line of succession is determined by Titles, not People. Not all members of Congress were in the Capitol, because of COVID restrictions. If something had happened to Pelosi or Grassley, a new President Pro Temp or House Speaker would have been elected

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:10 AM

59. Agree - wasn't Biden in Delaware during the attack?

If so, inauguration on 1/20 as scheduled.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:35 AM

13. During the melee I had thoughts of the tv show "Designated Survivor"

If they had gotten pipe bombs into the Capitol...

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:48 AM

15. Fortunately Congress escaped

Can you imagine if Trump's mercenaries had succeeded with their orders? This will unravel. And there should be the most severe penalties.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:03 AM

52. Treason and attempted pre-meditated murder.

I generally do not agree with capital punishment, but Ivthink I would make an exception in this case, just like I shed no tears over Timothy McVeigh or OBL.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:48 AM

73. I'd Prefer Life Solitary Confinement

I'm not inclined to extend the mercy of capital punishment to these seditionists.

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Response to smb (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:01 AM

81. Maybe, but as long as they are alive,

they become rallying cries for release and "unfair" confinement. Executing them makes them martyrs, so it's 50/50 I guess.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:50 AM

16. With guidance and direction from Putin and other autocratic favorites of dumpster, no doubt

This is what I, among others, generally foresaw happening more than 4 years ago.

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Response to debsy (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:51 AM

74. Some people recognized traits in Trump

that made this kind of thing a possibility, even a likelihood. Then there was Michael Cohen's warning, at the end of his Congressional testimony, that Trump had no intention of ever leaving office.

I remember that whenever concerns about Trump refusing to leave office and possibly resorting to violence by his followers were expressed, several posters said such concerns were over the top. Several posts insisted that Trump's followers were couch potato "insurgents," too cowardly to do anything but talk.

I wish they had been right. But clearly there are some very violent, blood thirsty thugs among Trump's followers who are not afraid of carrying out violent actions.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:50 AM

17. I think they were more interested in finding those ballots than murdering anybody.

A small cadre was no doubt tasked with this, not the Mob.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:23 AM

68. The two young ladies that saved Democracy on 1/6/21


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214835169

We need to spread this all over.

They literally save it and I'm not hearing this on MSNBC or CNN. Please contact them with this.

We need statues of them on the Square.
We need to name towns, roads and parks after them.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #68)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:36 AM

88. Agree, absolutely

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 08:53 AM

18. Only 3 people in the line of succession were in the Capitol

Pence, Pelosi, and Grassley.

The other dozen or so people in the line of succession were nowhere near there.

The State of the Union Address is a much more sensitive situation because the Cabinet is there. This was a different situation. I love Malcolm Nance and appreciate his heightened awareness and warnings, but he was a little off on this one.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:26 AM

71. Yes, on the State of the Union.

The entire Congress is present for that, plus the potus, the veep, the cabinet AND the Supreme Court. ALL THREE branches of the federal government.

Speaking of which, there needs to be AT LEAST double the normal amount of security when Biden gives his address in February. Make that triple!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:55 AM

76. The idea seemed to be creating such a terrible situation that Trump would have to enact martial law

for the "good" of the nation. Only one or two needed to be murdered for that to happen.

This was going to be Trump's Reichstag fire.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:01 AM

20. I think this was his last attempt.

He decided to 'go big', his rhetoric was to 'go big'. He did this on purpose. If he had succeeded, he would be president for life. He is only conciliatory now because his last ditch attempt failed.

Oh, and you don't think all those private meetings with Putin are connected to this?

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:05 AM

22. Many? As far as I know, ALL of them were there.

This looks like the Michigan terrorists' plan to kidnap the governor and execute her.

They were caught and stopped before they could follow through.

The Capitol security who got Pence and Pelosi out first prevented it this time. Then they advised the rest on sheltering until they could be escorted to safety.

This might have been a bloodbath without the officer who was murdered blocking the door, the stacking of chairs at the door, the escorting of people to safety.

Trump's crimes: inciting a riot, inciting an insurrection to accomplish a coup, treason, accessory to murder.

Since it looks like the traitor party will resist removing him, his arrest will have to wait until 12:01 pm January 20. Not a minute later. The jurisdiction for the arrest and detainment better be settled in advance. Until then, he needs to be tailed by the FBI to prevent him from hiding or skipping the country.

And Pence better not DARE even THINK about any pardons.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:10 AM

25. Michael Schmidt was saying tonight on Lawrence I

believe that he didn’t think Pence was likely to but who knows.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:26 AM

34. NPR interviewed two people

from Congress (sorry I don't have their names because they have interviewed so many) who called Pence about the 25th. They were left on hold for 25 minutes and Pence refused to speak to them, if you are referring to removing Trump.

If you mean Pence pardoning Trump and his spawn, Pence can't do it unless Trump is removed by invoking the 25th or by conviction after impeachment. Or if Trump resigns.

According to NPR, some R's are advising Trump to leave DC, delegate people to run the government, and go to Mar a Lago for the next 12 days and indefinitely afterward. Seems to me that such delegation would be a willful choice by Trump, a variation on the 25th, without the official declaration of it.

If that leaves Pence in control, even unofficially, would Pence dare to pardon him? Would it be legal if Pence was not officially declared to be president? All I know is that NOBODY better even try to let that orange tyrant off the hook.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:38 AM

43. Schmidt was answering the question if he knew

of any discussions re Trump resigning so Pence could pardon him as a safer avenue than self-pardon. Schmidt said he hadn’t heard of any such discussions but felt. Pence was unlikely to go along with that. Yeah, I know Pence is also not wanting to initiate the 25th, and it’s clear the resignations of cabinet members are to avoid being asked to. Hopefully the House will do an up/down impeachment vote to get it on the record. There’s not time to remove him.

The plan for him to leave DC sounds like the best way to keep us safer at this point. Being in his environment vs the WH watching the packing!

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Response to moonscape (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:32 AM

72. I'm not entirely convinced that getting him out of DC

makes life safer for the nation and world. Might keep him from starting a war as another last ditch effort, but even being excluded from Facebook and Twitter won't stop him from communicating with his thugs around the nation. He could still call upon them for an uprising.

I do not believe for one second his statement about a peaceful transition, as if that makes it all better. Too late to be saying that. About 4 years too late. Now he is trying to throw the terrorists under the bus with statements that they "defiled" the seat of democracy. Throwing blame at them alone as if he had no part in it.

I've heard about the heavy security in DC for the inauguration. I expect Trump to try to circumvent that by calling on his followers to make the day one of national insurrection to fight against the installment of a fraudulent election winner who will turn the country communist. Even if he has no hope that it would keep him in office, he would do it as vengeance.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:29 AM

37. The whole Cabinet was there?

I don't understand. We had a LOT of people in the line of succession that were not at the Capitol at that time.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:06 AM

23. Secret Service BARELY saved the situation

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:09 AM

24. Here's the line of succession....

1 Vice President Mike Pence Republican
2 Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi Democratic
3 President pro tempore of the Senate Chuck Grassley Republican
4 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo Republican
5 Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin Republican
6[A] Secretary of Defense
7[A] Attorney General
8 Secretary of the Interior
9 Secretary of Agriculture
10 Secretary of Commerce
11 Secretary of Labor

I'm not sure who are in the positions I left blank because of the turnover....In any case, the top three were at the Capitol.

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:11 AM

26. Well, they were too dumb to know this as is the person who sent them.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:13 AM

27. This is a wake up call. Heads are gonna roll, things are gonna change,

in the Capitol in DC and in state Capitols all across the country. There's gonna be a serious crackdown on violent fascist Magat domestic terrorists and terrorism.

Everything, everything that Trump did must be undone, and be prevented from ever being done again.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:17 AM

29. I really hope that this does not wind up being

Another thing that gets swept under the rug "for the good of the country"

No "moving on" this time.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:11 AM

61. I think this action - and this alone! - will insure that it will NOT be swept under the rug.

Trump just went way too far with this one. There is no way we can just put it behind us. Our reputation around the world is at stake, as well as our future security domestically.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #61)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:36 AM

87. I'm not convinced that it just won't be blamed on the rabble

And IF there were other, more organized and powerful elements involved trying to overthrow the government that won't be hushed up.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:19 AM

30. He was also on Dean Obidallah's show last night

and said the same thing.

How can we trust the people who are supposed to protect our elected officials?

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:24 AM

32. Orchestrated by Trump's Minions, Maybe

 

But Donnie himself? He thinks Orchestrate is a cis-gendered killer whale!

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Response to American Welshman (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:34 AM

86. He's the figurehead with plausible deniability. All they need to do is tell him they have a plan.

Don't need to tell him the plan, don't need to go into details, just tell him - we got some people who will work to keep you in power, or contest to invalidate the electors count, and we can give you time for the courts to throw out the election and you can have your next term.

Flynn, Don Jr., Manafort, Guliani and his misfit band of toy revolutionaries, Miller, Hannity and the media enablers, and who knows how many other lackeys who Trump put in "acting" or advisory positions within the Administration - and Congress.
Like Mob bosses, they plan in "code words" - "I know a guy who likes to organize this sort of thing, maybe we should ask him how to avoid bad things from happening?", "What would we need to do to keep this thing from happening?"...

Which does tend to put big gaps in planning if everyone is just a fellow traveller trying to avoid any evidence of conspiracy. This isn't planning something that was business as usual, like hijacking, mob hits, extortion or blackmail, etc...this is planning the overthrow of a large democratic government.

Haele

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:31 AM

39. Yeah, well, except Joe Biden and Kamala Harris weren't in the Capitol and they will be

inaugurated. They wouldn't have been able to kill all of Congress and they saved the affidavits from the states certifying the votes and even if they somehow managed to, at least 81,000,000 Americans would never accept King Donald. I think Malcolm Nance is spot on a lot of times, but this was a little overwrought.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:41 AM

44. Actually, that had dawned on me

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:56 AM

47. IIRC, there was a serious issue with the Secret Service requiring replacement wrt Biden...

Biden gets a new team due to Trump loyalty. Don't know if that's typical or not. Don't know if it was organized or not.

Not hard to think the Capitol police had similar issues.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:59 AM

49. Bottom line, even if we don't confirm this...the POTENTIAL for this to happen during

the insurrection is enough to act as if it is true.

Same for Trump remaining in power over the next qw days. We shouldn't need proof that he's insane, unpredictable, dangerous, and unfit...we can all see the potential that he is and therefore have to act accordingly with removal. Risk is too big.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:01 AM

50. Makes you wonder what the "Homeland" the people in

Homeland Security think they are protecting. Shouldn't keeping us safe from domestic terrorism be number 1 priority?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 09:57 PM

95. Many, including members of HS, only care about the safety of US citizens when

it is politically expedient to do so. One person killed by a "muslin" means war. Hundreds of thousands killed by a narcissistic, fascist pResident? Oh well.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:03 AM

51. Trump is totally willing to sacrifice congressional leaders and Pence

This is likely why they fired everyone at the Pentagon recently to replace them with Trump loyalists

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:05 AM

55. As Malcolm had said, coincidences take a lot of planning

This was not a coincidence.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:06 AM

56. I think Stephen Miller has a big hand in this. Notice he's not ...

resigning or denouncing the deaths and violence, yet.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:06 AM

57. That Was the Plan, Assassinate Other Top Leadership including Pence, Thankfully They Failed

It's becoming clearer and clearer this was much more sinister, coordinated than it seemed at first. There were pros that were embedded in the mob with clear objectives.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:09 AM

58. Very chilling

That’s why all those involved and I mean all need to be punished appropriately

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:13 AM

63. Not worse than I imagine, definitely worse than reported.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:20 AM

66. However, it was no coincidence that they failed, with their track record of incompetence. The

opportunity was there though.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:22 AM

67. i had posted on another thread that i believe the Con wanted the entire Congress taken out

OR, like a mob boss, he's sending a clear message:

https://time.com/5927756/donald-trump-republicans-capitol-riot/

A former White House official who worked closely with Trump believes the President inflamed the crowd and then lost control over what they’d do. “I can’t believe he wanted this to happen. I think he probably wanted there to be a bunch of menace and people projecting noise around him,” says the former official, who believes Trump hoped the crowds would demonstrate his popularity, send a message to Republicans that they should stick with him or face the wrath of his loyal followers, and warn Democrats that if he’s investigated after leaving the presidency, unrest may follow. “Don’t prosecute me when I leave and don’t f-ck with me,” the former official says, summing up the message he believes Trump wanted to send, “because I can marshal a bunch of people to go completely crazy.”

All that was missing was the dead horse head.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:25 AM

69. It would not have left Trump as a monarch

Even if the next three people in the line of succession were killed, Trump is still no longer president in less than two weeks. The only benefit for Trump in that situation would be if he resigned and the next in line in succession, which I believe would be Sec. Of State Pompeo, pardoned him for all his crimes.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:25 AM

70. Not many, but the top 3 were there and the remaining others are all pres appointments

so yeah, chilling

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:57 AM

78. What Trump wanted .. .

What Trump wanted was enough mayhem to allow him to declare martial law. It seems to me that in order to do that he probably did need some deaths of high officials. Once he's declared martial law, with his emergency powers he can do whatever he wants. He can postpone the counting of the electoral votes and indefinitely postpone the inauguration of Joe Biden. If Trump had done all that would anyone in the armed forces have stopped him? Before this week I would have thought definitely, yes, but looking at the lack of security on Wednesday I now have grave doubts about that. There was a method to this madness. Obviously, all these defenses were withheld for a reason. The National Guard leadership needs to give permission for other states' National Guards to come into DC, because D.C. is not a state. Disallowing the National Guard entrance to assist was withheld long enough to allow these horrid people to enter the Capitol Building and do what they wanted. Fortunately, the SS protected all of the officials. These are TERRIBLE people.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:11 AM

83. K&R

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:24 AM

85. Look, if you pay attention to Q, Alex Jones and other types of conspiracism...

It becomes clear that all the ingredients you need were in place. This isn't spy shit. This is dumb shit.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:39 AM

89. What is zip tie guys up to?Did he come prepared to tie up some congress people?

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 11:46 AM

90. Trump did not plan this. Perhaps Miller, or one of the others, but not Trump.

I have said it repeatedly. Trump is an idiot. He does not plan. He reacts. He is good at reading rooms and grabbing on to opportunities to stoke anger, fear, and chaos. He is not a strategist. He was definitely not thinking that he could decapitate the legislative branch and her would be "monarch". I love Malcolm Nance, but I think this is hyperbole.

Trump certainly incited insurrection. He unleashed a potentially violent mob on the Capitol. Some of the "mob" had plans and were looking for the opportunity to commit violent acts. We know because of the found weapons, but this was not a highly planned, fleshed out, master plot by Trump.

Trump is dangerous because of his shamelessness and erratic behavior. He is not dangerous because he is plotting, and some kind of evil genius. He is an evil moron, who only got this far in life because he was born rich and has been shielded from consequences by enablers. If Trump had not been born rich, he would be in prison or dead by now.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 02:56 PM

93. The problem with this thread

is too many sound as if they are assuming things were coordinated and consistent throughout the mob. That doesn't have to be the case.

Were some only looking for the electoral ballots? Sure.

Were some looking to seize personnel? It appears so.

Were some looking just to wreak havoc? Likely.

That doesn't mean those with one aim knew what the others were doing. It was just mayhem with various actors improvising toward their personal goals. The only overarching aim was mayhem. Aside from that, all bets were off.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Jan 8, 2021, 10:05 PM

97. Not true. Not ALL the people in line of succession were there

Last edited Sat Jan 9, 2021, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Theres at least 17 on the list - secretary of state, sec of interior, attorney general, secretary of housing and urban development, etc etc. etc. I doubt all 17 were here. So,no,drumpf would not be a monarch. Nice try - but sorry, no cigar.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Sat Jan 9, 2021, 12:54 AM

98. KnR

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