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Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:06 AM

Riot and crowd control or rather the complete lack of training.

I was serving in the Delaware Air National Guard when the Kent State murders occurred. I don't know about other regions of the US but Guard units from several states gathered in iirc Philadelphia for extensive training in riot/crowd control. The number one thing drummed into us was to use minimal force. There was a range of actions with the last being deadly force. Our primary tool was a hickory riot stick. I'm not sure of the length but it was plain smooth wood with a lanyard. We were cautioned not to put the lanyard around the wrist buth use a method that would allow us to release it if grabbed.

We had classroom lectures on mob psychology. One of the most important I remember is cutting the crowd into smaller groups decreases the energy of the mob. We learned various formations to do just that. First with the riot sticks and later with fixed bayonets. We did learn offensive moves with the riot stick that were exactly the same with rifle and bayonet. However the indent was to project an image of danger to the mob hopefully not to inflict injury.

After all these years I still remember the training that I never had to put into practice. Watching the police on TV in various protests around the country I am struck by the fact that they have ZERO training in how to defuse the situations they find themselves in. They never do anything to break the crowds into smaller groups. They push them around but without any sort of plan.

What happened yesterday at the capital was the worst. I am torn between condemning the Capital Police and wanting to excuse them. They were completely unprepared, lacking in numbers, equipment and training. 98% of this is on the leadership. The way the military works is that the highest ranks of leaders sets the objectives. The sergeant get it done with the rank and file.

These cops had no head. They had no clue what and how to do it. No one was organizing them. They all acted as individuals, basically chickens without heads.

Knowing the possibility of a large crowd on Capital Hill I would have deployed the National Guard is several locations. When the crowd moved from the White House this would be the time to split them up. I don't have a map in my head but causing them to split off in side streets is a great method. Just blocking is not particularly effective because it increases pent up rage.

Somebody used the phrase A Confederacy of Dunces. That is a perfect description of everything that tRump touches. Incompetence personified.

I'm done, thank you for letting me get this off my chest. My heart was hurting yesterday as I watched in horror.

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Reply Riot and crowd control or rather the complete lack of training. (Original post)
TexasProgresive Jan 7 OP
onecaliberal Jan 7 #1
Beringia Jan 7 #2
uponit7771 Jan 7 #3
TexasProgresive Jan 7 #6
fleur-de-lisa Jan 7 #4
TexasProgresive Jan 7 #7
Fyrefox Jan 7 #5
WhiskeyGrinder Jan 7 #8
TexasProgresive Jan 7 #9
WhiskeyGrinder Jan 7 #10
TexasProgresive Jan 7 #16
WhiskeyGrinder Jan 7 #20
beachbumbob Jan 7 #11
TexasProgresive Jan 7 #17
beachbumbob Jan 7 #18
MrsCoffee Jan 7 #12
EarthFirst Jan 7 #13
apnu Jan 7 #14
Cosmocat Jan 7 #15
mopinko Jan 7 #19

Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:07 AM

1. Way more people at the BLM protests and they didn't have a problem holding the line. So no.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:09 AM

2. Thanks for this info

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:14 AM

3. No people, if the MAGA Terrorist yesterday were Muslim they would've been shot in the face

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:24 AM

6. If there were armed terrorist of any stripe they should be stopped.

What I am seeing is police around the country have no training and no leadership in how to defuse situations.

I agree that the response would've been over the top violent if the protesters were peaceful people of color. This crowd should never have gotten to the steps of the capital much less inside.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:16 AM

4. How can law enforcement in DC have no clue about crowd control?

Think of all the protests over the decades. I would think all LEO anywhere near DC would have riot training. DC is the epicenter for political activism.

I live in New Orleans. We have probably 30 major festivals every year, including the month-long Mardi Gras hoopla and two weeks of Jazz Fest. There are hundreds of thousands of shit-faced people at these events. If New Orleans can train for crowd control, how can any LE organization the the DC area not be properly trained?

And there were nowhere near enough LEOs. They knew weeks in advance that this event was planned. Something does not smell right when considering how many LEOs were in place for the BLM protests. So clearly that had plenty of LEOs available but someone chose not to deploy them ahead of the coup rally.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:27 AM

7. A fish rots from the head.

There is a lack of will or intent to be competent.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:20 AM

5. A good and accurate analysis!

I really thought that there would have been a much stronger police and national guard presence prior to the proceedings, especially since Trump issued his marching orders to his most rabid followers, and their intentions were telegraphed. Violence is never far from the heart of people such as these, and you must take them seriously and as a credible threat. Unfortunately, the police and leadership chose to be reactive rather than proactive, and shameful events followed...

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:38 AM

8. So wait, you're saying they need MORE resources and training?

That yesterday’s events were the result of a lack of resources and training?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:54 AM

9. Yes I do. I believe that the law enforcement officers in the United States are woefully undertrained

They have no clue how to do conflict resolution as do cops in the UK and Canada. Many of our cops idea of conflict resolution is a hail of 9mm bullets.

I worked in a technical field and also in non paid work where I would counsel people. I'll bet my continuing education let alone the original training in both fields compares to what cops get like the ocean to a drop of water. I am sure this is true for many other professions.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 07:55 AM

10. Their training isn't conflict resolution because their mission is not conflict resolution.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:43 AM

16. But it should be. We should learn from our neighbor to the north and across the pond.

They routinely make arrests without have to resort to the ever present Glock.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 03:41 PM

20. "Arresting without a Glock" is also not conflict resolution.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:00 AM

11. Give me a break, the people in charge of security of the Capital have the training, the issue is

 

many acted in assisting the trump mob in breaching the Capital. The video evidence is overwhelming. The Capital was LEFT PURPOSELY UNDEFENDED as its a FEDERAL GOVT FUNCTION to begin with. NO Homeland security personnel, NO FBI, NO US MArshalls, NO other presence at all. The mob basically was allowed free and resistant free access into the Capital.

This was an orchestrated event

Review how this handled with BLM demonstration over the summer

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:50 AM

17. What happened at the capital yesterday was just the final example of crap mob training I have seen.

I agree with you that many of these Capital police were complicit in what was happening. Certainly some of those cops were on the side of the protestors.

The generic problems I've been seeing have to do with crowd control all across the nation. There is a severe lack of training of the rank and file and a lack of leadership up above. They brutalize some and coddle others. As to the Capital cops they shirked their duty to protect the Capital. That's their job regardless of who are what is attacking.

Certainly what I saw was a complete lack of order and leadership on the ground. They were as much a mob as the mob.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:55 AM

18. dozens that I saw in several videos, not a few that assisted the breach the real issue was why

 

the Capital was left vulnerable when its a Federal Govt responsibility for overall security, Who ordered the stand down" Why did it take HOURS to get reinforments? ANd why the fuck the curfew NOT enforced, Most of the answer goes back to white privilege combined with a real effort of a soft coup,

Tell me what would have been the outcome if 500 of the protesters were fully armed up with automatic assault weapons had gotten inside? We still be counting bodies this morning, still be hearing more nonsense on healing and coming together. Chamberlain and Hitler all over agin

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:01 AM

12. They fucking let it happen on purpose.

Not all of them.

Just enough of them.

End of.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:20 AM

13. Which page of the training manual is posing for selfies with a mob as part of deescalation training

Just curious.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:23 AM

14. No this is a preparation issue at the very top.

They were prepared for BLM, but BLM was never this unruly.

They weren't prepared for this. There was no coordination with other agencies in DC and the surrounding area. Capitol Police were left to twist in the wind. Given all the social media footage, several of them opened the gates for the mob.

So on top of willfully negligent preparations, there are many who are part of the mob in uniform.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:30 AM

15. It wasn't them - it was the higher ups

There simply were not enough of them to come close to stopping the numbers coming at them.

IF the powers to be had treated yesterday like they did OUR protests, and had rows of body armored national reserve troops with long rifles surrounding the capital it would not have happened. For all their bravado they are fucking cowards, it was unfortunate, but them shooting the woman who was crawling over the last barracade to the House left them shitting their pants.

But, the relentless need to indulge whiteness, in their infinite wisdom they felt doing so was to risky because they did not want a WACO type incident if they did try to push things ...

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Response to TexasProgresive (Original post)

Thu Jan 7, 2021, 08:56 AM

19. metro police and the guard were blocked. their plan a is call in backup.

that's why this all happened. it was planned that way. by trump.

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