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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Mike Pence Cannot Block t...

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 02:56 PM

Star Member Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (85,801 posts)

Mike Pence Cannot Block the Certification of Joe Biden's Victory When the Senate Formally Counts

Electoral College Votes on Jan. 6th

President Donald Trump’s quest to overturn the results of the 2020 election have been rejected at every turn, resulting in an unprecedented string of court losses that have left the former “Apprentice” host and his supporters to pursue increasingly impractical efforts to remain in power. Chief among the latest exercises in futility is Trump imploring Vice President Mike Pence to prevent ratification of Joe Biden’s victory when the Senate counts the Electoral College votes next month.

The Electoral College formally selected Biden as the next U.S. President on December 14 when each state’s electors publicly cast their official votes. There is no mechanism for reversing these votes, and on Jan. 6, the House and Senate will meet to count those votes. Under the 12th Amendment, Pence is constitutionally mandated to preside over the joint session of Congress which will accomplish the task.

Trump on Wednesday retweeted a theory from one of his supporters calling for Pence to reject the certificates of votes from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, falsely claiming those states did not “receive a constitutionally permissible slate of electors.”

Unfortunately for Trump, legal experts say Pence has absolutely no authority, constitutional or otherwise, to prevent ratification of the electoral college votes. The Constitution states that Pence “shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” The “shall” in the provision is an imperative command, unambiguously requiring the act be completed, making Pence’s role merely ceremonial.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mike-pence-cannot-block-the-certification-of-joe-bidens-victory-when-the-senate-formally-counts-electoral-college-votes-on-jan-6th/ar-BB1cfgXE?li=BBnb7Kz

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mike Pence Cannot Block the Certification of Joe Biden's Victory When the Senate Formally Counts (Original post)
 Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2020 OP
LineReply And if for some reason pence doesn't want to perform that duty, it changes nothing
 Thekaspervote Dec 2020 #1
LineReply It's all past silliness now
 treestar Dec 2020 #2
LineReply SHALL is the operative word,
 elleng Dec 2020 #3
LineReply Yes and the oath of office which Trump repeated
 PCIntern Dec 2020 #4
LineLineNew Reply Just what I'm thinking too. n/t
 Myrddin Dec 2020 #33
LineReply So sick of this man-baby
 Joinfortmill Dec 2020 #5
LineReply The world's biggest loser is also the world's biggest baby...why doesn't this POS grow up and
 SWBTATTReg Dec 2020 #6
LineReply How nasty are the tweets going to be when Pence does not do Trump's bidding? nt
 Irish_Dem Dec 2020 #7
LineLineNew Reply Maybe the "base" will finally let the republican party go to pasture.
 BComplex Dec 2020 #34
LineLineLineNew Reply I think the GOP is on its last legs. The base is the Trump party, not GOP. nt
 Irish_Dem Dec 2020 #35
LineReply Gaming Rules Lawyer
 kurtcagle Dec 2020 #8
LineLineNew Reply Very astute!
 Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2020 #29
LineReply He only votes in the case of a tie
 FakeNoose Dec 2020 #9
LineLineReply And, since he was the Republican candidate for VP,
 MineralMan Dec 2020 #10
LineLineLineReply There is nothing that would prohibit him from voting, even if there were a conflict of interest
 StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #15
LineLineLineNew Reply The only vote the Senate would take would be on a challenge to a electoral slate and Pence
 onenote Dec 2020 #28
LineReply It would be 'against the rules' certainly. Possibly unconstitutional. But how long would it take
 wiggs Dec 2020 #11
LineReply Just for the sake of a theoretical arguement,
 Mr.Bill Dec 2020 #12
LineLineReply exactly-- and how much pressure is Dump putting on him to do that?
 LymphocyteLover Dec 2020 #13
LineLineReply He has no power to accept or reject any electoral votes
 StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #16
LineLineLineReply Sure, and this administration
 Mr.Bill Dec 2020 #18
LineLineLineLineReply Again. He has no power to accept or reject the vote
 StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #22
LineLineLineLineLineReply Thank you, I can read.
 Mr.Bill Dec 2020 #23
LineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Lol. "Thank you I can read!". You go Mr. Bill!
 Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2020 #30
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Yes, it would be inpecedented.
 LiberalLovinLug Dec 2020 #27
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Yes, could see them doing something for a momentary pause.
 Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2020 #31
LineLineReply Worst case: President Pelosi. Nt
 Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #17
LineReply I can't believe how many people here don't understand this
 SCantiGOP Dec 2020 #14
LineLineReply And at this point neither would surprise me. n/t
 Mr.Bill Dec 2020 #19
LineLineNew Reply I think what some people are asking is, who, specifically, would stop him if he tried
 ecstatic Dec 2020 #36
LineReply Pence & the Fly are between a
 Cha Dec 2020 #20
LineReply Can he stomp his feet
 ToxMarz Dec 2020 #21
LineLineReply He could, and then someone else would have to do it.
 subterranean Dec 2020 #24
LineReply Idiots
 Roy Rolling Dec 2020 #25
LineReply You have got to be kidding. Little, meek, frightened Mikey Pence standing up to the world?
 BarbD Dec 2020 #26
LineNew Reply No but he can accept, in fact has to accept,
 Voltaire2 Dec 2020 #32

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 02:59 PM

Star Member Thekaspervote (25,678 posts)

1. And if for some reason pence doesn't want to perform that duty, it changes nothing

Next in line to tally the votes would be grassley

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 02:59 PM

Star Member treestar (80,027 posts)

2. It's all past silliness now

In no way did the Founders intend any such up-ending of an election to be possible. These are mere formalities. No state would stand for it, either! To have your state's election annulled just because the incumbent did not like its result? It is only a pathetic attempt at disenfranchising the majority for no reason other than not liking the result, in a system they were fine with in 2016 when its technicalities did allow a loser to assume the office.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 03:00 PM

Star Member elleng (116,613 posts)

3. SHALL is the operative word,

he has no choice.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 03:00 PM

Star Member PCIntern (22,424 posts)

4. Yes and the oath of office which Trump repeated

Was that he shall faithfully execute blah blah blah. But he didn’t.

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 27, 2020, 04:52 AM

Myrddin (317 posts)

33. Just what I'm thinking too. n/t

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 03:00 PM

Joinfortmill (6,818 posts)

5. So sick of this man-baby

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 03:06 PM

Star Member SWBTATTReg (17,897 posts)

6. The world's biggest loser is also the world's biggest baby...why doesn't this POS grow up and

be an adult?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 03:41 PM

Star Member Irish_Dem (25,118 posts)

7. How nasty are the tweets going to be when Pence does not do Trump's bidding? nt

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 27, 2020, 12:21 PM

Star Member BComplex (6,468 posts)

34. Maybe the "base" will finally let the republican party go to pasture.

We can always hope.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 27, 2020, 12:23 PM

Star Member Irish_Dem (25,118 posts)

35. I think the GOP is on its last legs. The base is the Trump party, not GOP. nt

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:06 PM

Star Member kurtcagle (1,325 posts)

8. Gaming Rules Lawyer

OVer the years, I've run a number of role-playing game sessions, from D&D to GURPS to Call of Cthulu. Every so often, we'd get someone in our group - usually male, teenaged or early twenties, and white - who would try to rule lawyer their way out of every negative action, throwing up every excuse they could find in the rules (which as GM, I generally treated more as guidelines anyway) for why their character's stupid action didn't get them fireballed, petrified, or losing their +5 Holy Sword of Greatness. Typically, once they saw how the landscape lay, they bailed to find some other group to try to take advantage of.

Trump reminds me a lot of these guys. He put the absolute minimal amount of work into any decision or initiative (which usually ended up being a boondoggle), and when he inevitably faced a day of reckoning and lost, he'd throw up every obstacle in the book, while simultaneously shouting abuse at the people who held him to task. What's worse, as each loophole he tried to exploit became more and more silly, even his allies would abandon him because he got in the way of actually playing the game.

Had Trump put some effort into stopping Covid-19, he would have had a second term. Had he bowed out gracefully when it became evident that Biden had beaten him, he might have been able to play a position as Kingmaker in the GOP moving forward, possibly even running for re-election in 2024. Now, I think even his closest associates have to recognize that Trump deserved to lose, which means that this will likely be the first, last, and only elected office that he will ever have. Good riddance to him.

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 06:17 PM

Star Member Laura PourMeADrink (38,640 posts)

29. Very astute!

Had Trump put some effort into stopping Covid-19, he would have had a second term. Had he bowed out gracefully when it became evident that Biden had beaten him, he might have been able to play a position as Kingmaker in the GOP moving forward, possibly even running for re-election in 2024


There's a strong element of laziness that led to his downfall. It's much easier to just lie. Good thing he's a narcissist because it made him think he was omnipotent and that everyone really did love him.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:09 PM

Star Member FakeNoose (24,159 posts)

9. He only votes in the case of a tie

... and that only happens in the Senate, not in the Electoral College.


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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:18 PM

Star Member MineralMan (144,022 posts)

10. And, since he was the Republican candidate for VP,

a conflict of interest would block him from voting, even if there were a tie in the Senate about something regarding this tally of electoral votes.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:53 PM

StarfishSaver (18,486 posts)

15. There is nothing that would prohibit him from voting, even if there were a conflict of interest

 

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:56 PM

Star Member onenote (37,378 posts)

28. The only vote the Senate would take would be on a challenge to a electoral slate and Pence

could vote if a tie occurred in the Senate. There is nothing in the Constitution, the US Code, or the rules of the Senate that would preclude him from voting. Just as there would be nothing to prevent the Speaker of the House from voting if he/she was a nominee for President or Vice President.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:25 PM

wiggs (6,945 posts)

11. It would be 'against the rules' certainly. Possibly unconstitutional. But how long would it take

to resolve, if he did try? Is there any reason to believe that trusting elected republicans to do the right thing is a reliable, valid practice?

What will he do when ALL eyes on are him to open and count the votes? Take the opportunity to delay? Take the opportunity to make a statement? Will he gavel down rowdy gop senators in the manner of Gore in 2000? Will there be protests outside trying to convince Pence and everyone else of the 'hoax?' Will he defer to Grassley? What is Trump telling Pence? Giving orders? Threatening to end the gop if Pence doesn't come through? Making a deal?

In the end, Biden will take office...but based on past behavior, a long record of ratfuckery, I have to think the gop will NOT make this an easy, normal process on Jan 6. With them, EVERYTHING is about the partisan battle and the ends always justify the means.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:47 PM

Star Member Mr.Bill (16,980 posts)

12. Just for the sake of a theoretical arguement,

What would happen if Pence stood there with the gavel and said "Because of obvious election fraud, the chair declines to accept the electoral votes from the following states..."

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:48 PM

Star Member LymphocyteLover (3,253 posts)

13. exactly-- and how much pressure is Dump putting on him to do that?

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:54 PM

StarfishSaver (18,486 posts)

16. He has no power to accept or reject any electoral votes

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:06 PM

Star Member Mr.Bill (16,980 posts)

18. Sure, and this administration

has never tried to do something they don't have the power to do, right? If they did try this, the Trumpers would go nuts and say we "rammed it through anyway", just giving more creedence that this was a fraudulent election.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:34 PM

StarfishSaver (18,486 posts)

22. Again. He has no power to accept or reject the vote

 

You can come up with "what if?" scenarios until the end of time. That doesn't mean it's going to happen and doesn't mean it's going to work. In fact, it's just a waste of time and useful only to those who are looking for things to worry about.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:36 PM

Star Member Mr.Bill (16,980 posts)

23. Thank you, I can read.

As I stated, this is a theoretical discussion. If you don't wish to participate, then simply don't.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 06:21 PM

Star Member Laura PourMeADrink (38,640 posts)

30. Lol. "Thank you I can read!". You go Mr. Bill!

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:53 PM

LiberalLovinLug (13,228 posts)

27. Yes, it would be inpecedented.

Is there written in law somewhere that if Pence says what you wrote above that he'd say, and declares fraud, would it follow that if he did that, and banged the gavel to close the session, that Grassley was backed by law, or written into the Constitution, a requirement that Grassley run up to the mic and say "no no no....its not adjourned.....I will do the the ratification, despite the VP's statement"?

I don't think, in the end, it would work, but perhaps it would drag it out for a few days, while they figured out what to do. During which OANN and NewMax maybe even a few at Fox would start celebrating. Rile up the red hats even more by getting their hopes up. Make them even more bitter and angry when a few days later Democrats or the courts find a way to get through it and ratify the results.

They could definitely use that little stunt to help keep alive the notion that Biden won illegally, and Pence bravely tried to reverse it. But Democrats, and the evil deep state, and activist judges, made sure that Pence was slapped down and installed Biden anyways.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 06:31 PM

Star Member Laura PourMeADrink (38,640 posts)

31. Yes, could see them doing something for a momentary pause.

To gain attention that their crazy cause.

It would be interesting to know what Pence is thinking. Does he want to run in 2024? If yes, hard to know how to play it. If he tries to disrupt, it makes him look like a trump stoolie and loses normal people support. If he doesn't, he faces trump's wrath and could lose many potential crazy followers.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:59 PM

Fiendish Thingy (9,883 posts)

17. Worst case: President Pelosi. Nt

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 04:50 PM

Star Member SCantiGOP (12,431 posts)

14. I can't believe how many people here don't understand this

Last edited Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Pence altering the submitted electoral votes would be no different than having a piece of legislation he doesn't endorse pass 55-45, and he instead announces that it has been defeated by 55-45.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:07 PM

Star Member Mr.Bill (16,980 posts)

19. And at this point neither would surprise me. n/t

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 27, 2020, 01:19 PM

Star Member ecstatic (29,931 posts)

36. I think what some people are asking is, who, specifically, would stop him if he tried

to pretend as if he had the power to stop the certification?

Who would grab the gavel and say, "No, Mr. Pence, you're mistaken. It doesn't work that way, sir..." Would we have to wait for the Supreme Court to step in?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:13 PM

Star Member Cha (276,854 posts)

20. Pence & the Fly are between a

rock & a hard place.

Who doesn't think he deserves that?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:22 PM

ToxMarz (1,889 posts)

21. Can he stomp his feet

And refuse to open the certificates?

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Response to ToxMarz (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:48 PM

Star Member subterranean (3,338 posts)

24. He could, and then someone else would have to do it.

A poster above said that the next person in line to count the votes would be Chuck Grassley.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:51 PM

Star Member Roy Rolling (5,831 posts)

25. Idiots

It’s an administrative function, like a clerk or cashier.

If you go to a bank, the cashier can’t dispense money to whomever they choose. The cashier just processes the money.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:52 PM

Star Member BarbD (1,126 posts)

26. You have got to be kidding. Little, meek, frightened Mikey Pence standing up to the world?

I'm thinking he would like to be hiding somewhere -- probably some rock.

Is this why he is running out of town asap?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Sat Dec 26, 2020, 10:33 PM

Voltaire2 (10,347 posts)

32. No but he can accept, in fact has to accept,

all submitted slates of certified electors. The 12th is expanded by the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and that expansion opens the door to shenanigans by dishonest agents.

At a minimum the t-nazis can gum the process with 50 or so 2 hour interruptions to settle disputes.

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