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Thu Dec 10, 2020, 12:59 PM

Biden tells civil rights leaders that 'defund police' was 'how they beat the living hell out of us'

Defund the Police cost us a ton of seats and races that we should have won. I saw this in two local races where the GOP used this phrase in almost all of their ads.



Joe Biden told civil rights leaders, according to a Thursday report, that the 'defund police' slogan was the reason Democrats experienced widespread losses in congressional races across the country on November 3.

'That's how they beat the living hell out of us across the country, saying that we're talking about defunding the police,' Biden said during a two-hour closed-door meeting with civil rights leaders on Tuesday, according to audio of the meeting obtained by Bad News.....

House Majority Whip James Clyburn and even former President Barack Obama have blamed the 'defund police' slogan and other 'snapp slogans' on costing them votes.

Biden insisted at the meeting 'we're not' trying to defund police, but rather 'hold them accountable' and reallocate money.

'We're talking about giving them money to do the right things,' Biden continued. 'We're talking about putting more psychologists and psychiatrists on the telephones when the 911 calls through. We're talking about spending money to enable them to do their jobs better, not with more force, with less force and more understanding.'

I agree with President Elect Joe Biden on this

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Reply Biden tells civil rights leaders that 'defund police' was 'how they beat the living hell out of us' (Original post)
Gothmog Dec 2020 OP
mcar Dec 2020 #1
Gothmog Dec 2020 #7
mcar Dec 2020 #11
Gothmog Dec 2020 #121
Mz Pip Dec 2020 #2
oswaldactedalone Dec 2020 #18
Duppers Dec 2020 #66
BGBD Dec 2020 #145
Duppers Dec 2020 #146
Botany Dec 2020 #3
elleng Dec 2020 #5
Botany Dec 2020 #6
George II Dec 2020 #63
redstateblues Dec 2020 #4
Hortensis Dec 2020 #13
betsuni Dec 2020 #93
Johnny2X2X Dec 2020 #8
maxsolomon Dec 2020 #22
Crunchy Frog Dec 2020 #28
maxsolomon Dec 2020 #33
yardwork Dec 2020 #30
rockfordfile Dec 2020 #106
Thomas Hurt Dec 2020 #9
Crunchy Frog Dec 2020 #31
Hekate Dec 2020 #97
Lunabell Dec 2020 #10
maxsolomon Dec 2020 #23
Lunabell Dec 2020 #56
BannonsLiver Dec 2020 #12
StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #14
melman Dec 2020 #37
Johnny2X2X Dec 2020 #43
melman Dec 2020 #46
Johnny2X2X Dec 2020 #51
melman Dec 2020 #62
AmericanCanuck Dec 2020 #103
ProfessorGAC Dec 2020 #71
LanternWaste Dec 2020 #73
melman Dec 2020 #75
Gothmog Dec 2020 #112
bigtree Dec 2020 #140
George II Dec 2020 #141
cwydro Dec 2020 #52
Gothmog Dec 2020 #149
Gothmog Dec 2020 #161
Caliman73 Dec 2020 #39
stopdiggin Dec 2020 #49
Jirel Dec 2020 #15
Crunchy Frog Dec 2020 #34
stopdiggin Dec 2020 #57
Jirel Dec 2020 #76
stopdiggin Dec 2020 #108
Gothmog Dec 2020 #113
StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #61
Gothmog Dec 2020 #64
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #85
Gothmog Dec 2020 #162
gratuitous Dec 2020 #16
Gothmog Dec 2020 #78
gratuitous Dec 2020 #91
Gothmog Dec 2020 #92
bigtree Dec 2020 #102
George II Dec 2020 #94
gratuitous Dec 2020 #100
AmericanCanuck Dec 2020 #104
gratuitous Dec 2020 #107
AmericanCanuck Dec 2020 #109
Gothmog Dec 2020 #120
Gothmog Dec 2020 #115
Gothmog Dec 2020 #114
maxsolomon Dec 2020 #17
Mariana Dec 2020 #58
Adelante Dec 2020 #19
NurseJackie Dec 2020 #20
Gothmog Dec 2020 #21
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Gothmog Dec 2020 #55
yardwork Dec 2020 #24
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yardwork Dec 2020 #65
Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2020 #25
Hekate Dec 2020 #99
Gothmog Dec 2020 #116
KG Dec 2020 #26
Caliman73 Dec 2020 #29
stopdiggin Dec 2020 #60
AmericanCanuck Dec 2020 #35
onetexan Dec 2020 #38
BusyBeingBest Dec 2020 #40
bigtree Dec 2020 #41
Gothmog Dec 2020 #160
Barbara2423 Dec 2020 #42
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #86
betsuni Dec 2020 #95
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #98
betsuni Dec 2020 #105
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #128
betsuni Dec 2020 #129
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #132
Hekate Dec 2020 #101
Midnight Writer Dec 2020 #45
wryter2000 Dec 2020 #48
cwydro Dec 2020 #50
bigtree Dec 2020 #53
cwydro Dec 2020 #54
bigtree Dec 2020 #68
Gothmog Dec 2020 #80
bigtree Dec 2020 #89
Gothmog Dec 2020 #117
bigtree Dec 2020 #123
Gothmog Dec 2020 #124
bigtree Dec 2020 #126
Gothmog Dec 2020 #127
bigtree Dec 2020 #138
R B Garr Dec 2020 #96
George II Dec 2020 #59
peggysue2 Dec 2020 #70
Boogiemack Dec 2020 #67
bigtree Dec 2020 #69
Boogiemack Dec 2020 #72
bigtree Dec 2020 #74
Gothmog Dec 2020 #79
bigtree Dec 2020 #83
Gothmog Dec 2020 #122
bigtree Dec 2020 #125
Gothmog Dec 2020 #144
bigtree Dec 2020 #147
Gothmog Dec 2020 #148
bigtree Dec 2020 #150
Gothmog Dec 2020 #151
bigtree Dec 2020 #153
Gothmog Dec 2020 #155
bigtree Dec 2020 #156
Gothmog Dec 2020 #157
bigtree Dec 2020 #158
Gothmog Dec 2020 #159
Gothmog Dec 2020 #152
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #87
Gothmog Dec 2020 #77
DeminPennswoods Dec 2020 #81
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #88
leftstreet Dec 2020 #111
Gothmog Dec 2020 #118
DeminPennswoods Dec 2020 #130
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #134
backscatter712 Dec 2020 #82
Gothmog Dec 2020 #165
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #84
Gothmog Dec 2020 #119
uponit7771 Dec 2020 #137
Gothmog Dec 2020 #143
Meowmee Dec 2020 #90
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #110
dansolo Dec 2020 #131
bigtree Dec 2020 #139
Hotler Dec 2020 #133
dsp3000 Dec 2020 #135
bigtree Dec 2020 #154
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #136
George II Dec 2020 #142
R B Garr Dec 2020 #164
Gothmog Dec 2020 #163
George II Dec 2020 #166
Gothmog Dec 2020 #167

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:00 PM

1. That, and "socialism" killed us in SFL

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Response to mcar (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:09 PM

7. Even in my part of Texas, the GOP was using socialism as an attack line

We failed to flip any congressional seats and lost a number of state house seats that we should have won due to these attacks

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:13 PM

11. We had a good chance of taking the FL state senate

only needed 5. We lost ground, despite good campaigns from good candidates.

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Response to mcar (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:58 AM

121. You are correct

To many of the Latinx voters in Florida. socialism has a meaning and this attack killled Democratic in Florida

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:02 PM

2. I agree also

If you have to keep explaining that your slogan doesn’t mean what it says it means then you really need a new slogan.

The first time I saw that at a march I was seriously WTF?

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Response to Mz Pip (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:38 PM

18. Me too

I couldn’t believe anyone would get that going. Terrible, horrible, and awful messaging.

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Response to Mz Pip (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 03:25 PM

66. 💯% agree....

I would hope but not expect the average American voter to go online for an explanation, if they didn't fully understand. Remember, folks, average voters aren't as savvy as we are.

Here's the first explanation on my Google search:

From Wiki:
"Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.


And the 2nd was from Good Housekeeping:
While while some organizations are indeed calling for the abolishment or dismantling of police altogether, "defunding the police" simply means reducing police department budgets and redistributing those funds towards essential social services that are often underfunded, such as housing, education, employment, mental ...Jul 22, 2020
WTF??!

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Response to Duppers (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:01 PM

145. Have you even met

an average American?

Research isn't a thing they do very well.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #145)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:10 PM

146. Totally agree. That's why...

I added "do not expect" in bold.

Most Americans form opinions only on what they hear by word-of-mouth, social media, & broadcast media, in that order. 😣 That's it, imo. No wonder our democracy is teetering.

I've heard excuses that "they don't have the time." Then why can they spent so much time on social media?



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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:02 PM

3. Telling us what we need to hear.

The right takes one or two things and distorts and runs with them.
Example: Hillary Clinton, "I want to take your jobs." to coal miners.

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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:03 PM

5. Right.

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Response to elleng (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:05 PM

6. They aren't burdened by having to be honest.

This is one of the ways the right gets the poor and low information white people to
vote for them even though in most cases it is against their own best interests.

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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:55 PM

63. Yes, they're masters at taking half a sentence or thought and omitted the rest.....

But it's not just the right. It's done by some in our own "tent" to others in our own tent.

An example of that is what was done to Eliot Engel. His opponents took part of a sentence out of context and played it over and over and over again, and he lost. That was the one thing that people held up after the primary and said "this is what beat him."

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:03 PM

4. I agree. We Dems need to get our messaging together

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:19 PM

13. WE have it together. WE cannot control the hostile left or right's messaging.

And of course the groups and media agents on the left who insisted on pushing that term knew it was harmful. That's WHY they did it.

This is not the first or the 50th time the anti-Democratic left have doubled-teamed tactics with the Republicans to sabotage Democrats in elections.

To have a revolution, you have to have a lot of really unhappy, scared and angry people. Good times would consign groups like Nina Turner's to at least another 30 years of dreaming in obscurity, perhaps a lot more. This is their first big chance since Democrats took over in the 1930s-40s and created our longest, most prosperous era so far.

They imagine. But an almost certain RW authoritarian takeover instead would still be far preferable to the restoration of prosperity and security under liberal democracy that they very rightly fear.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:18 PM

93. +1

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:10 PM

8. Defund the police was the #1 issue for a lot of moderate Republicans

People I know, people I work with. The rioting and Defund the Police mantra was all they could talk about.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:40 PM

22. "Moderate" Republicans are mental children who can't see past their own privilege.

They interpret complex issues as Binary Oppositions.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:45 PM

28. That may be true, but they can make the difference in close elections.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:49 PM

33. Of course.

I've talked with conservatives, to try get them to see that nuance and gray areas are how the world actually works, but it is largely futile. They shut down.

"They sentenced me to 20 years of boredom for trying to change the system from within."
-Leonard Cohen, 1st We Take Manhattan

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:46 PM

30. That's because the Republicans scared them with their messaging.

We lost the messaging on this one.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 09:15 PM

106. Then those people are idiots

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:10 PM

9. If the GOP were demanding defunding the police, they would be calling it...

smaller gov't and fiscal responsibility.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:46 PM

31. Apply fiscal responsibility to policing.

That actually sounds much better.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:38 PM

97. There you have it. Why couldn't our "progressives" think of putting it that way?

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:12 PM

10. Who came up with that slogan?

I'm all in for dismantling the system, but defund the police? That was a loser from day one.

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:41 PM

23. I've seen that question asked 100x on DU.

Maybe you should look it up.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:31 PM

56. Ok, done.

And fuck that noise. I was a part of this type of thinking in the 80's and nobody did anything about my abusive husband because of this way of it. My alleged feminist boss at the Feminist Women's Health Center, in Tallahassee, Florida was arranging his bail after he threatened me with a knife.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:15 PM

12. I agree with Biden

A lot of people don’t want to hear it, but the messaging was bad. If you’re explaining you’re losing.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:26 PM

14. True

 

"Defund the police" was different than "Black Lives Matter."

"Black Lives Matter" means exactly what the words say, but some people played dumb and pretended either that it wasn't clear or that it meant something other than what the plain words said. Any "explaining" that needed to be done was to push back on people who pretended the message wasn't clear when it was as plain as day but they just didn't like the message.

"Defund the Police" is another story. The words themselves don't convey what the message is supposed to be. No one was calling for the police to actually be defunded but for policing to be reshaped and reformed. The message itself made no sense and was successfully used to undermine candidates.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:54 PM

37. "No one was calling for the police to actually be defunded"

 

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Response to melman (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:03 PM

43. Terrible slogan then.

This was one of the worst slogans in political hisotry.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:05 PM

46. It's not a slogan

 

It's an extremely straightforward policy demand.

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Response to melman (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:13 PM

51. Burn down the forests!

Burn down the forests is about as effective of a policy demand to prevent forest fires as Defund the Police is for police reform and community investment. It was horrible messaging and cost the Democrats up and down the ticket.

There was nothing straight forward about it, if it was straight forward it could have stood on its own without explanation.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:54 PM

62. It says what it means

 

And it means what it says.


Defund the police. Give the police less money. It could not be more clear.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:52 PM

103. +1000

 

The ideologically inflexible are unable to fathom simple concepts.

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Response to melman (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:29 PM

71. Does It Fit On A Bumper Sticker?

If it does, it's not policy, it's a slogan.

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Response to melman (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:39 PM

73. "Huh, what?" By its very nature, and form, it's just a slogan.

 

...as actual policy, real law and the reallocation of municipal money require much more than a t-shirt slogan.

However, if one desires to believe or pretend commercial branding is the equivalent in form or function of actual policy, well... that's ok I guess. There's a particular bliss to be found.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #73)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 05:38 PM

75. "There's a particular bliss to be found"

 

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Response to melman (Reply #46)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:09 AM

112. Do you ever tire of being wrong??

This was an ignorant slogan that killed down ballot candidates

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #112)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:16 AM

140. here's the fellow you posted disagreeing with you

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Response to melman (Reply #46)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:34 AM

141. Katie Porter on "The View" just called it a slogan and said "relying on a slogan" is wrong.

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Response to melman (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:14 PM

52. Yup.

They meant it. And those who espoused it here meant it too.

Cost us a lot of seats. Smh.

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Response to melman (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:57 PM

149. Do you ever tire of being wrong??

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Response to melman (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:09 PM

161. These ads were very effective

These ads were used very effectively by republican. Do you ever tire of being wrong?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:58 PM

39. People were actually calling to defund the police. Literally take money out of police budgets...

They were calling for that money, which is millions and in some places billions of dollars, to be reinvested in other services that attack the root causes of crimes.

If you can alleviate or eliminate homelessness, increase drug and alcohol treatment, fund jobs programs, hire more counselors, therapists, and community organizers, then you can attack the root causes of criminal activity instead of reacting to it by arresting and investigating crimes after they happen.

You are absolutely correct that, "Defund the police" captured none of what would be funded in their place, but the aim of the movement is to shift away from policing to trying to resolve the problems that facilitate crime.

I think there will always be some need for a police type force, but not the massive, militarized police we have now.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:12 PM

49. nope. people were actually calling for exactly that

There were the "explainers" -- and then there were quite a few people whose bottom line was "we would be better off without them." Full stop.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:34 PM

15. Joe's human, which means sometimes he is wrong.

People said this exact thing about “Black Lives Matter” a few years ago. Right now, they’ve shut up because (a) there’s nothing wrong with the phrase, and only a racist or rank coward in the face of racism is going to keep whining about it, and (b) everyone openly or secretly admits they know EXACTLY what it means. “Defund the police” is exactly the same kind of thing.

Democrats want votes. We want votes of disenfranchised communities. We don’t get to ask for those votes, then tell people to stop their own fights and stop using their own slogans because racist scum trigger to it. If this party is going to be an ally to the communities whose votes we want, it’s time to stand with those communities FOR REAL and stop complaining about their messaging.

You can go on all you want with speculations about some races being lost because racists used a fight against racism as a hot button issue. You know what? Without that phrase they STILL would have made it a hot button issue. The language isn’t the issue. The fight against racism is. Newsflash - these races were lost because racism is freaking popular in the good old USA. The words weren’t the problem. If that phrase had never entered the lexicon, those ads would instead be showing videos of protests, burning police stations, and probably a fair number of foreign movie clips.

Meanwhile, we watch rethuglicans screaming “Lock her up!” Creating appalling falsehoods out of thin air. Throwing Nazi salutes and carrying burning touches through the streets. Threatening armed insurrection. Beating or killing people of color. Threatening officials with armed mobs at their homes. Where, oh where, do they give one flying f*** about how their message is perceived?

The fact is, people are more upset by anti-racist work (not slogans) than they are by blatant, violent racism. The problem is that racists are feeling their power right now... and we have a contingent among us who think that bowing to that by not standing with OUR BASE that is being oppressed, is somehow a virtue.

Shame, shame, shame.

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:49 PM

34. I don't think Biden was wrong about this. nt

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:35 PM

57. sorry the language is the issue

We lost winnable races because of it. There might well be racist underpinnings in that -- but it is not speculation.

Respectfully. The idea that we can go out and do stupid sh*t -- but it doesn't really matter because the other side is "stupider" (or more racist) -- is foolishly naive.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 05:52 PM

76. It's not "stupid shit."

First off, it is not “our” phrase to choose. It is the language chosen by activists whose votes are desperately wanted and needed by this party. You get to choose whose votes you court, but you do not get to ask them to change THEIR activism to make it politically easier for you. Your options are then to either address their issues and work together, or to decide they’re not your people or your causes, stop courting them, and do without those lovely, lovely votes.

Your wholly sideways analysis is to blame that phrase rather than to address the troubling issues. That is not what lost those few elections. It was our commitment to civil rights during a tumultuous period of extravagant, empowered racism. Whether it was “that phrase” (*eyeroll*) or videos (real or falsified) from the protests of the spring and summer or simply inflammatory QAnon conspiracy theories about the deep state and Democrats and George Soros and paid rioters bussed in from North Korea wearing blackface, it would make no difference. The bottom line is that Democratic candidates allied themselves with anti-racists and their work. The right wingers would have manufactured whatever phrase or images they wanted to whip up their violent brethren and scare their fellow quiet racists in sheep’s clothing, including racists on the left. Bottom line, racism was used to leverage away those seats.

Foolish naďveté is believing that a phrase has that power, or worse yet, believing that we have any say about the use of that phrase, or that we in any way “own” it. The party is going to have to come to terms with the idea that it is going to have to commit to real anti-racist work, and it’s going to be utterly castigated for it by the white supremacist right. (Or, the party has to walk away in cowardice and abandon our core principles and a large portion of our base. Not sure what we have left to offer if we just become the sane, centrist wing of the Republican Party.) So, better get all-in, and that includes not pissing and moaning about one damned slogan that is not even ours to piss and moan about.

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Response to Jirel (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 10:14 PM

108. the "phrase" (as you put it) constitutes "stupid sh*t"

A self-inflicted wound is virtually always -- stupid, and a mistake.

It wasn't only Republicans and racists that were put off. Plenty of Ds were reacting with the equivalent of WTF?, and "are you f*cking joking?" But -- go ahead and dig in your heels -- and keep "explaining" to the audience how words really have no consequences. Meanwhile -- the rest of us are going to try to figure out what we might be able to salvage from the setbacks we suffered on Nov.3rd. But, thanks!

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Response to Jirel (Reply #76)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:11 AM

113. You are wrong

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:53 PM

61. This isn't the same as "Black Lives Matter"

 

The only reason "Black Lives Matter" needed to be "explained" is because people pretended not to know what it meant when they knew exactly what it meant.

"Defund the Police" needed to be explained because no one knew or knows what the hell it means.

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 03:17 PM

64. You are wrong and Joe Biden is correct

This motto killed down ballot candidates in the last election

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:15 PM

85. ***BINGO!!!*** Why didn't down ballot democrats respond appropriately to polling saying they were...

... going to under perform polling so badly before Nov 4th?

Also

No slogan or term is going to explain how down ballot dems under performed polling so horridly relative to years before ... not one.

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Response to Jirel (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:11 PM

162. The GOP is using this stupid slogan in Georgia

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:36 PM

16. I disagree with President Elect Joe Biden on this

But then, if people would just quit getting themselves killed by our faultless boys in blue, there'd be no problem at all. Instead, certain people insist on forcing the police to shoot them, gas them, baton them, and snatch them off the street.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:30 PM

78. Defund the Police killed a number of downballot candidates

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.




The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue
Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively
Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #78)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:54 PM

91. Incompetent candidates aren't my concern

If a candidate can't make a case for less oppression and more compassion, I don't know what will save that candidate. Republicans seem able to explain their support for selfishness and kicking the poors; why can't Democrats do that for far loftier goals?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #91)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:55 PM

92. Good candidates lost due to this idiotic slogan

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #92)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:49 PM

102. they lost because they failed to defend BLM against distortions and lies

...like those pols who couldn't countenance calls for 'withdrawal' from Iraq because of their inability to defend against republicans calling them 'soft on defense.'

There are real life needs and concerns that deserve representation from a party that professes their fealty to the black lives they expect to vote for them. But that's not what happened in that election. BLM's views were not only distorted and demagogued by republicans, their views were dismissed and scorned by Democratic leaders.

WHY? Well that's pretty clear today. Democratic leaders were more concerned with how republicans portrayed BLM, than with defending the truth about their stance, opting to scorn activists for their beliefs instead of representing them accurately.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #91)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:22 PM

94. What candidates, specifically, are you calling "incompetent"?

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Response to George II (Reply #94)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:47 PM

100. Seems rather obvious

Any candidate who can't make the case for compassion over oppression. Republicans don't back off an inch from hatred, fear, and bigotry, but Democrats run people who can't run against that. That's political malpractice as far as I'm concerned. I'd look at Amy McGrath in Kentucky. Backed by oodles of money and national support, running against the embodiment of Washington corruption, and she couldn't crack 40% of the popular vote. How does that happen?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #100)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:55 PM

104. Name specific examples of who lost because of being incompetent

 

otherwise it is just blaming the victim of a bad slogan

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Response to AmericanCanuck (Reply #104)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 09:32 PM

107. Please re-read my post

Unless you're unwilling to own up to the incompetence of some Democratic candidates, and that's fine. At least be honest about it.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #107)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 11:12 PM

109. I said give specific examples of who the incompetent Democratic candidates were

 

according to you.

Specific as in names, states and districts.

Otherwise you are just speculating.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #107)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:40 AM

120. So it was okay to lose the Maine and South Carolina senate seats due to this dumb slogan?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #100)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:15 AM

115. Are calling Sara Gideon an incompetent candidate?

Do you tire of being wrong?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #91)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:14 AM

114. Are you calling Jaimie Harrison an incompetent candidate

I am sad at your comments are so wrong and poorly informed

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:37 PM

17. I wonder how it would have gone if they'd used my preferred slogan:

"Fuck the Police"? It's pretty catchy, no?

DEFUND, DE-MILITARIZE, RE-INVENT, RE-IMAGINE.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:40 PM

58. "Fuck the Police" would have had exactly the same effect as "Defund the Police".

ANY criticism of the police, their policies, or their behavior would have been seized on by the right and used in exactly the same way.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:38 PM

19. Is there a link to a news article?

I'd appreciate it if someone posted one.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:52 PM

36. Thank you.

Not a tweet person.

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Response to Adelante (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:29 PM

55. My kids laughed at me a couple of years ago about twitter and so I had to figure it out

My kids disparage my technical abilties at every opportunity. I am now being told by my kids that Facebook is for old people

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:44 PM

24. I agree, but the DNC didn't promote that message.

"Defund the police" came from the Democratic Socialists, BLM, and other very loosely organized groups of people who usually don't align with the Democratic Party.

The Republicans are skilled at painting Democrats as radicals, when the real radicals usually want nothing to do with us.

The only solution is for the DNC to adopt our own radical messages. Drown out calls to "defund the police" with louder calls to REFORM THE POLICE and saturate social media with our messages.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:45 PM

27. Yeah, but those groups don't want to REFORM THE POLICE

so why should that be the slogan?

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:48 PM

32. Those groups aren't the Democratic Party.

Those groups are going to have their own agendas, priorities and slogans. Often, they're not going to be in agreement with the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party needs stronger, more radical messages of our own. It will not be enough for some people, but they're already not with us.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:04 PM

44. Those groups are part of the Democratic Party,

but, yeah, they aren't the DNC. And I wouldn't say that they already aren't with us. They are. Not saying the DNC has to adopt their agendas, but deliberately shitting on them might make them then not want to be on our side. Or acting like we are doing what they want we we instead say "reform" the police instead of "defund" the police.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:10 PM

47. Since most of those groups caucus with us

we get painted with that brush. A headline from the Hill: "Ocasio-Cortez dismisses proposed $1B cut: 'Defunding police means defunding police'"

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

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Response to Sgent (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 03:17 PM

65. Good point. It's still up to the DNC to take control of the message.

For some reason, the Republican Party never gets blamed for the insane, racist, stupid things Republicans say. But the Democratic Party gets blamed for everything.

It's up to us to fix that by taking control of the message.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:44 PM

25. It's still the right thing to do.

And people can complain about it all they want, but we need to change how we do police and a huge part of that is cutting their funding by A LOT and giving that to organizations that can solve those problems better.

I bet the civil rights movement in the 60s cost the liberals some elections, too.

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:45 PM

99. Different times entirely.It was LBJ who lost us some Democrats, because the Dixiecrats all exited...

...Stage Right. After that both Parties were different.



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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:16 AM

116. Only if you want to make sure that Republicans beat Democrats in close races

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:44 PM

26. I lulz'd

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:45 PM

29. What does "reallocate" money mean?

Is that "reallocated" money going to stay within the police budget or used for other resources like those psychologists and psychiatrists. Are the psychologists and psychiatrists going to be police? Work for the police? OR is the money going to be "reallocated" away from the police to those other services?

I have already stipulated in multiple threads that "Defund the police" was not a phrase that resonated with people and it was too easy to mischaracterize and be used by right wingers to say that Democrats wanted to eliminate all police immediately. This is not the argument. I am asking what Biden means by "reallocating" money.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:51 PM

60. ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers

and the simple fact is, most communities/cities (where budgeting and policy get hashed out) are not at all interested in slashing the number of uniforms on their force. (although you might find some agreement in less armored vehicles and assault weapons)

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:50 PM

35. Biden is 100% correct

 

Plus - he must have real internal data

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Response to AmericanCanuck (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 01:56 PM

38. +1 K&R

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:01 PM

40. I don't know how much of an effect it had.

But slogans that take extreme positions for shock value are usually a bad idea. If one of those sign-holders was punched in the face by a counterprotestor, you bet your ass they would call...the (hopefully adequately funded) police.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:01 PM

41. the people who get bashed over the head with this are invariably folks who haven't used the phrase

...it's catapaulting rw propaganda to keep mentioning this.

It's much less important, for instance, that civil rights leaders who have nothing to do with the phrase to hear this, than it is to just define what he stands for and leave slogans that the rw exploited out of the conversation.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:07 PM

160. Again you are totally wrong

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:01 PM

42. I love Joe Biden but disagree that the slogan costs votes.

The Democrats should be more forceful in their messaging.

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Response to Barbara2423 (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:20 PM

86. +1, if the slogan was that damaging why didn't dems respond to it before Nov 4th. The notion that a

... single slogan had down ballot dems underperforming polling so historically horrible is a dismissal of other shit that's wrong in this election.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #86)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:33 PM

95. They did. Joe Biden said many times "I do not support defunding police"

and "We don't have to defund police departments. We have to make sure they meet minimum basic standards of decency" and so on.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #95)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:39 PM

98. Down ballot dems, not the top of the ticket. Biden responded but why didn't down ballot do such ...

... and why didn't polling reflect the issues with DTP?

tia

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #98)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 09:12 PM

105. They did. "In all these races, the Democratic candidates opposed defunding law enforcement."

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Response to betsuni (Reply #105)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 03:04 AM

128. That's not individual dem down ballot polls, that's a polling of DTP. Dem down ballot polling was up

... outside of MOE, we should've won more of a majority of down ballots and did not.

If DTP was hurting down ballot dems polling (not a polling of a slogan or idea) of individual dems would've said such, it didn't.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #128)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 05:26 AM

129. You don't know why Republicans win? Don't know about cheating, voting suppression, playing

on people's fear and anger and stupidity and ignorance and racism? You blame Democrats? You think if Democrats just have the right message Republican voters will vote for them?

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Response to betsuni (Reply #129)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:18 AM

132. No, I know down ballot dems didn't underperform polling because of a slogan. That makes no sense

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Response to betsuni (Reply #95)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:48 PM

101. Yep. Joe said that & "progressives" went ballistic. Why give a long rational answer when a snappy...

... 3-word slogan can be used as a firebrand?

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:04 PM

45. Isn't it time to make an issue of Republicans defunding the police by blocking aid to cities?

In our current crisis, local governments are going broke because their tax base is crippled.

The Republicans, who spend trillions to shore up multinational corporations, won't authorize a penny to help struggling municipalities.

We need to get that message out.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:11 PM

48. I have to agree

All the things people want to do under the banner of "defund the police" are great and should be done. Calling it "defund the police" makes it sound as if we want to get rid of all law enforcement.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:12 PM

50. Clyburn says the same thing.

They’re both right.

Where are the posters who claim this isn’t true? Hmm?

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Response to cwydro (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:19 PM

53. it's as true as any phrase the rw has expolited

...except this one had nothing to do with the Democratic Party.

So here's a group of people being made to account for something next to none of them said or promoted.

But if it makes people feel righteous proclaiming that an exploited phrase that had absolutely nothing to do with the party caused republicans to do something, then I'd suggest they buckle up, because there's an endless stream of distortions coming from the republican party they'll associate with Democrats which we can take responsibility for and beat each other on the head with.

And people will tell you this is a productive exercise. Foolishness.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:22 PM

54. Well, sorry, but I got lost in that run-on sentence.

Plenty here espoused the “defund” the police, and that’s a fact.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #54)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 03:44 PM

68. the percentage of people who said that on this site was likely a fraction of a fraction

...do the math and extrapolate that to the population.

Absolutely meaningless what some people here expoused.

There's an endless stream of distortions coming from the republican party which they'll associate with Democrats which we can take responsibility for and beat each other on the head with. Foolishness.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #68)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:37 PM

80. Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats




As of June, just 27% of Americans supported “defunding the police,” compared with 57% who opposed it, according to a HuffPost/YouGov poll. At the same time, more moderate reforms ― such as banning chokeholds by law officers, creating a federal registry for complaints about police misconduct and developing a national use of force standard ― all had the support of large, bipartisan majorities of Americans.

“What other movement would take a set of policies that an overwhelming number of Americans support and slap an unpopular label on it?” asked Danny Barefoot, a Democratic consultant who worked on some Senate and state legislative races.

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #80)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:30 PM

89. here's who this article blames

Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:59 AM - Edit history (1)

"A vocal group of Black Lives Matter activists included a call to “defund the police,” and a minority faction among them used it literally..."

This is such a bullshit charge. The Democratic party NEVER embraced the slogan or the sentiment. Yet, even with the election OVER, they're STILL more concerned with their political positioning than with their constituents crying out for drastic reform of the police forces which are literally killing them.

But go on and complain to me about some politician who had a hard time representing the truth about the people who they expect to vote for them.


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Response to bigtree (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:18 AM

117. We lost races and seats that we should have won due to this ignorant slogan

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #117)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:01 AM

123. it's just astounding how disconnected this argument of yours is from reality

...and you spam these quotes on your thread like I'm supposed to genuflect to them.

These one sentence replies of yours don't even begin to address my responses to you.

Have fun spamming your own thread.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #123)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:06 AM

124. It is you who is dsconnected from the real world

In Texas we needed nine state house seats to flip control. We netted zero seats due to crap like Defund the Police, Socialism and MFA. I saw the ads being used by the GOP and these ads evidently worked

Again, in the real world, candidates need to win their races to be effective. Losing candidates have no effect on policy in the real world.

Why don't you go work on some real campaigns. I was busy on several campaigns this cycle while working the voter protection boiler room on LBJ, Slack, Zoom and signal.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #124)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:27 AM

126. you have some damn nerve telling me what to do

..have some respect for posters here.

You don't know a goddamn thing about me of any substance, and you have no right to tell me to do anything. How dare you lecture me about my own life.

I said your argument is disconnected from the real world, not you. Keep your personalizations in line.

The point is that MOST Americans don't live inside of campaigns in the real world, politicians and their flacks do.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #126)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:58 AM

127. I have been working hard in the real world to turn Texas blue. This means winning races

I have three good friends lose their races due to attacks like defund the police, socialism and MFA. I both donated to these candidates and I worked on their campaigns. Heck I was at Walt Disney World during a special election for one of these candidates when I was ask to call the local election administrator. We had over 1000 poll watchers out in just our region
this election and a large number of attorneys in the virtual voter protection war rooms. We had slack, zoom, LBJ (the DNC voter protection database) and signal to coordinate. We poll watchers at most early voting ballot boards/signature verification committees and we were successful in getting a large number of ballots saved from rejection due to signature mismatches. I was told that there were lines of voters who came into correct their rejected vote by mail ballots

I have been working for a very long time to turn Texas blue and we had a setback on down ballot races. I saw the MFA and defund the police ads and it is clear that these ads worked In the real world, you can change things if you win. We elected all of the judicial races in my county and have a new African American sheriff in my county (the first since reconstruction). We picked up two other countywide races which means that Democrats control the county committee that control elections in my county.

I live in the real world where we try to win races. We just formed a new statewide organization for Texas Democratic Lawyers. I was pleased to find out that there are so many voter protection attorneys volunteering to help in Georgia that we do not need to send attorneys to Georgia. The real world is a nice place and we are gearing up to win races I like living in the real world. It takes hard work but we are making progress

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #127)


Response to Gothmog (Reply #80)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 08:36 PM

96. Thanks. Now we have to pretend there were no demonstrators

or rioters who promoted this phrase on live TV for months.

Of course the RW was going to use this against Democrats. It was tailor- made for them, and it was accompanied by visuals from the riots. Who wouldn’t think RWers were going to exploit this unfortunate phrase.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 02:47 PM

59. As the famous Representative said a few weeks ago, "Defund the police means defund the police!"

Biden is 100% correct, that slogan resulted in republicans "beating the living hell out of us!"

Whether some who use it protest that it doesn't mean "defund the police", yet the vast majority of Americans think it means just that, then it's a terrible slogan.

If it's not doing the job that it's proponents think/want, then it's time they step up and change it. Period.

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Response to George II (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:17 PM

70. And Joe Biden would be right

Defund the Police, the socialism accusation, as well as packing the courts. None of these were winners and in many cases put strong candidates into defensive postures. That's not how you win. We need to take a page out of Mayor Pete's book: be clear and specific in our point of view, always.

Slogans and memes that need explanation do not work and are ripe for twisting. And why telegraph our every intention anyway? Packing the courts may sound good to us, for instance, to rebalance SCOTUS. For Republicans? Manna from Heaven.

We need to stop giving Republicans ammunition, get off our heels and make the aggressive arguments for good governance, something the Republicans have no interest in and/or have forgotten (intentionally or unintentionally) how to do.

We are on the right side. But our messaging sucks!

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 03:25 PM

67. He is correct It was a huge contributing factor along with "socialism."

 

But many well thought of blacks will never concede that nor will many progressives. Until we understand our enemy, they will continue to defeat us where it counts the most...in the House and in the Senate.

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Response to Boogiemack (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:05 PM

69. why should anyone stifle their beliefs because republicans might expolit something said?

...party officials make their own calculations based on whatever they think will fly with constituents.

But Americans outside of government shouldn't have to parse their words. Politicians (and others) need to look at their own failure to counter republican propaganda which could have come from any source.

The cw here is that people outside of government used the phrase and they need to be chastized for what republicans ultimately did with their stated beliefs. That's garbage. Politicians needed to communicate their own beliefs effectively.

Blaming citizens expressing themselves for POLITICIANS' failure is a recipe for a repeat of whatever harm they think the phrase caused. It's on them. Not on citizens expressing themselves.

Moreover, until the problems in communities which sparked these beliefs change drastically, defunding police will resonate there. There's not going to be a lifeline from the black community to politicians until their needs are met.

Find a way for police to operate with fairness and comity in these communities, don't just chastise people who live there for refusing to support vicious, deadly police forces.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #69)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:31 PM

72. Because we want to win. We want to win to get the positions of power we need to bring about

 

the changes we want. It's called "strategy"

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Response to Boogiemack (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 04:54 PM

74. we live our lives in the middle of elections, we don't live for elections

...and our needs out here rarely comport with what a politician needs to get elected.

But, go on and tell us to stifle ourselves. Let's just wait until it's something that affects your life or livelihood, then let us tell you to stifle it because some politician isn't willing to defend the truth.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #69)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:33 PM

79. The goal is to win elections

I trust President Obama on this issue



Former President Barack Obama drew criticism from progressive Democrats this week for suggesting that “snappy” slogans like “defund the police” are alienating voters and making it harder from a political standpoint to enact “changes you want done.”

In an interview with Peter Hamby, who hosts the Snapchat political show “Good Luck America,” Obama said “you [lose] a big audience the minute” a slogan like “defund the police” is used, making “it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done.”

“Defund the police” refers to the reallocation or redirection of government funding from police departments to social services for minority communities. As Rashawn Ray of the Brookings Institution noted, defunding does not mean the abolishment of police departments but instead “highlights fiscal responsibility” and “advocates for a market-driven approach to taxpayer money.”....

Obama ― echoing other centrist Democrats who’ve similarly taken issue with “defund the police” and what they’ve decried as radical messaging ― told Hamby that Democrats could benefit from adopting softer rhetoric when talking about police reform.

“If you instead say, ‘Hey, you know what? Let’s reform the police department so that everybody’s being treated fairly. And not just in policing, but in sentencing, how can we divert young people from getting into crime?’” he said.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #79)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:01 PM

83. trust who you want, but you should recognize that most people don't live for elections

...as our needs and concerns aren't as easily compromised in real life, as politicians regularly compromise them for political expediency.

In between elections I'd expect people to recognize those needs, irrespective of what some pol might need to keep his political balance. I don't live to fit some politician's expectations. It's disgusting to find, after the election is OVER, to have people still insisting folks should temper their expressed beliefs, because next election.


Politicians have some responsibility to represent the people who vote for them. I think comporting our beliefs to Obama or any other elected official is fine, if that's what you want. But it's not the way this democratic process is supposed to work. It's the exact opposite.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #83)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:00 AM

122. A huge catastrophe': Democrats grapple with congressional and state election losses

Again, you are wrong. Candidates need to win elections if they are to be effective. That is how the real worls works Here is a good explanation https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/huge-catastrophe-democrats-grapple-congressional-state-election-losses-n1248529

The Biden campaign's goal was to make 2020 a referendum on Trump's chaotic term, and it succeeded, but the results were far worse down the ballot.

In leaked recording, Biden says GOP used 'defund the police' to 'beat the living hell' out of Democrats
Republicans barraged swing districts with ads linking moderates to the most far-left voices in the party, which has led to bitter recriminations between the factions.

"When you're Joe Biden and you have 47 years in public life and you have a billion dollars behind you, you can build your own brand," said Matt Bennett, executive vice president of the centrist think tank Third Way. "But when you're down-ballot, it's hard to outrun that brand in red and purple districts."

I saw this in two down ballot races in my county where the GOP ran a ton of defund the police and soclialsim ads

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #122)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:16 AM

125. these candidates need to defend themselves better

...next time it will be some other bullshit attack.

Next time you may well want someone to defend your own misrepresented slogan.

It's high time for folks to stop blaming BLM for failed candidacies. No matter how much you spam me, no matter how many times whoever repeats this sorry excuse (Obama or anyone else), this scapgoating of private citizens for politician's failures isn't going to wash with me.

Blaming citizens for political failures is weak. If you believe all you need to do is hit people over the head with what republicans say, you have no one but yourself to blame when the next bullshit attack comes. WHEN that time comes, it may well be something as vital to YOU as black lives are to BLM.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #125)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:57 AM

144. This attack is sad and does not reflect how campaigns work in the real world

Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Blaming the candidates for losing is sad and wrong. If you had ever worked in a real campaign you would understand how sad and wrong your claims are

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #144)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:33 PM

147. blaming the people politicians expect to vote for them for expressing themselves is not only sad

...it's piss poor strategy.

Failing to defend themselves against republican nonsense is the candidate's fault, not a handful of BLM supporters. Politicians won't get much mileage out of trying to control what people say, so they'd better prepare themselves for the next bullshit attack.

It's entirely possible it will be something you've said which they exploit which you'll want someone to defend.

Next time you may well have something as precious as black lives to defend, and you'll want support against republican lies. I hope you won't find this kind of recrimination against you, all in defense of a politician.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #147)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 12:55 PM

148. Have you ever worked on a campaign in the real world?

You are wo wrong in your attempt at analysis that it is sad. The candidates who lost were in purpble or swing districts and the GOP used slogans that may work in deep blue districts against them. Is it your position that the Democratic Party should not waste its time trying to run in swing districts because the progressive branch of the party wants to force all party members to run on slogans that only work in deep blue districts.

In the real world this slogan costs of races such as the Maine and South Carolina senate seats. Sara Gideon had to deal with signs like this


I am working hard n the real world to turn Texas blue and this cannot be accomplished unless we flip swing districts where slogans like Defund the Police, socialism and MFA are used

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #148)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:10 PM

150. how special of you. You must be the only person who worked for a campaign here

...you can't control what private citizens say.

And you can't influence them by complaining that a politician (and their supporters) failed to defend themselves against republican lies about them.

So it begs the question what you think you're doing here looking to castigate a handful of BLM supporters for their slogan. It's surreal, and you haven't once mentioned the black lives behind the phrase. It's as if you believe we live inside of a campaign.

Do you really think you're actually reaching anyone who used that phrase? That's the 'real world' disconnect I'm getting at.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #150)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:37 PM

151. Thank you for confirming that you do not understand how campaigns in the real world work

The Defund the Police slogan was pushed by AOC and the progressive wing of the party and that slogan killed down ballot candidates. This slogan had a great deal of traction because it was being pushed by the progressive wing ont he party who are all in very Democratic districts. The candidates who lost were in swing districts where this slogan was very effective

The real word is a nice place. I will continue to work hard to turn Texas blue which means flipping seats and winning races in districts that are not D+28 districts.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #151)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:30 PM

153. what a trip

Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2020, 03:13 PM - Edit history (1)

...my life is not a campaign.

Btw, your assertion about AOC is false, and it's clear now what this is all about. You think you're railing against AOC. All she did was try and DEFINE the term and the rw (and Democrats opposed to her, as well) tried to make her own it. She's no more responsible for the term than any of the other people you're directing this screed at.

CHECK YOUR OWN ARTICLE THAT YOU POSTED:

here's who this article you spammed blames, The article titled, 'Why ‘Defund The Police’ Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats: Republicans spotlighted an unpopular activist slogan, but it’s not all the fault of progressives.' (some title, huh?)

"A vocal group of Black Lives Matter activists included a call to “defund the police,” and a minority faction among them used it literally..."


At least AOC had the courage to make clear what the term meant, but she is not the originator, nor is she legislating anything of the sort. But here you are distorting what she said, leaping past the people who originated the phrase in defense of black lives in their communities.

Here's a person who did what politicians concerned with their political hides should have done. She stood up and made clear what was at issue, political timidity not one of her characteristics.

This is a despicable distortion, and you have yet to acknowledge the black lives behind the slogan.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #153)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 03:18 PM

155. Do you ever tire of being wrong??

You are again wrong. AOC pushed the Defend the Police and was so upset at the fact that Democrats got killed due to this ignorant slogan that she nearly abandoned politics

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #155)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 03:54 PM

156. not one word of this article you just posted contradicts me

...pretty much like the majority of your responses on this thread where you proclaim posters wrong.

CHECK YOUR OWN ARTICLE THAT YOU POSTED in another response to me:

here's who this article you spammed blames, The article titled, 'Why ‘Defund The Police’ Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats: Republicans spotlighted an unpopular activist slogan, but it’s not all the fault of progressives.' (some title, huh?)

"A vocal group of Black Lives Matter activists included a call to “defund the police,” and a minority faction among them used it literally..."


What a sad effort. And you've not only failed to acknowledge the origin of the phrase, you've deflected it on someome with the temerity to contradict republicans.

Not one word from you about the black lives at the heart of the phrase, or the people who originated it. This is just despicable.

You've deflected the phrase onto a white woman, I can only suppose, to keep from acknowledging the black lives at risk who are at the root of the phrase.

I'm absolutely disgusted by this thread of yours and your responses.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #156)

Sat Dec 12, 2020, 01:03 AM

157. Again do you tire of being wrong? Why do you want Democratic candidates to lose elections?

Does it make you happy to see real democrats lose elections due to a talking point forced on the party by progressives. You are totally wrong in your claims. AOC nearly dropped out of politics because of all of the caniddates who lost due to the idiotic Defund the Police slogan. Even now, the progressive wing is attacking Joe Biden and President Obama for not agreeing with this idiotic slogan. Here are members of the squad attacking Preisdent Obama


"We lose people in the hands of police," Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., shot back. "It’s not a slogan but a policy demand. And centering the demand for equitable investments and budgets for communities across the country gets us progress and safety."

Other members of the so-called "Squad" joined Omar in pushing back against Obama's comments.

"Rosa Parks was vilified & attacked for her civil disobedience. She was targeted. It's hard seeing the same people who uplift her courage, attack the movement for Black lives that want us to prioritize health, funding of schools & ending poverty, rather than racist police systems," Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., tweeted.

Even Barbara Lee admits that Joe Biden is correct on the fact that Defund the Police cost down ballot candidates.



Burnett told Rep. Lee “I want to give you a chance to react to President-elect Biden. The quote he said is Republicans, quote, ‘beat the living hell out of us across the country,’ he says, because of the ‘defund the police’ movement, because of those words, and he says that is not what Democrats are talking about,” and asked “What’s your response? What do you say?”

Without hesitation, Lee replied “Well, it’s not. Yes, it’s not and President- elect Biden is absolutely correct.”

“The Republicans in many ways weaponized police reform policies, and that is what they did in their ads, and that is the misrepresentation of what police reform is about,” she explained, and pointed out that the House-passed George Floyd Justice and Policing Act “has been sitting on Mitch McConnell’s desk for months.”

“So the Republicans have this way of just trying to misrepresent what we’re doing, so we move forward on our police reform efforts, and I believe that we’re going to be successful with the Biden-Harris administration,” Rep. Lee said.

Your claims are false and sad. Why do you want real Democrats to lose their races. This is sad to me.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #157)

Sat Dec 12, 2020, 01:12 AM

158. putting you on ignore

...for spamming me.

talking to yourself in 3, 2, 1....

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Response to bigtree (Reply #158)

Sat Dec 12, 2020, 08:10 AM

159. I am glad that you admit that you are totally wrong

Your claims are false and I am sad that you are happy that Democratic candidates lost due to this idiotic slogan

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Response to bigtree (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 02:10 PM

152. Obama Says 'Defund The Police' Alienates Voters

I trust President Obama



In an interview with Peter Hamby, who hosts the Snapchat political show “Good Luck America,” Obama said “you [lose] a big audience the minute” a slogan like “defund the police” is used, making “it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done.”,,,,

Obama ― echoing other centrist Democrats who’ve similarly taken issue with “defund the police” and what they’ve decried as radical messaging ― told Hamby that Democrats could benefit from adopting softer rhetoric when talking about police reform.

“If you instead say, ‘Hey, you know what? Let’s reform the police department so that everybody’s being treated fairly. And not just in policing, but in sentencing, how can we divert young people from getting into crime?’” he said.

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Response to Boogiemack (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:23 PM

87. There is ... NO ... empirical proof of this, not one poll. Also, if that slogan was so damaging to

... down ballot dems why wasn't the sentiment responded to before Nov 4th !?

No .. I disagree with notion that a slogan made down ballot dems under perform polling to this historically horrible degree.

There was more than just a slogan

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:26 PM

77. In leaked recording, Biden says GOP used 'defund the police' to 'beat the living hell' out of Democr

Joe Biden is correct https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/leaked-recording-biden-says-gop-used-defund-police-beat-living-n1250757

— President-elect Joe Biden appeared to blame the "defund the police" movement for contributing to surprising Democratic down-ballot losses last month, telling civil rights leaders this week that they should proceed carefully on criminal justice issues.

"That's how they beat the living hell out of us across the country, saying that we're talking about defunding the police. We're not. We're talking about holding them accountable," Biden said Tuesday in a virtual meeting with civil rights leaders, according to audio excerpts posted Thursday in a podcast from The Intercept.

Biden pledged that he would follow through on his promises to address systemic racism, but he warned about getting "too far ahead of ourselves" with critical Senate runoff elections in Georgia on Jan. 5.

"We can go very far. It matters how we do it. I think it matters how we do it," Biden said.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:39 PM

81. Convenient excuse, but wrong

as it totally discounts the hoard of voters who came out only because Trump, to whom they are devoted, was on the ballot. It also discounts the many "never Trumper" Rs who came out to vote for Biden, and whom he courted, then voted for Rs down ballot.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #81)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:25 PM

88. +1, also if DTP was depressing down ballot dems so bad why wasn't there a response before Nov 4th !?

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #81)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 11:18 PM

111. +1

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #81)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:20 AM

118. No you are wrong

Susan Collins was re-elected due to this stupid slogan



Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #118)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 07:02 AM

130. Doubt any area saw more "scary" about not having police

than where I live in PA. Yet, it didn't have much effect at all.

However, you only need look to compare all the elections since 2016 where Trump was not on the ballot and Dems were cleaning up.

Dems who want to deny that there's a significant block of voters who are devoted to Trump, but don't come out to vote unless he's on the ballot are just fooling themselves. This is also true for Dems who failed to understand that courting "never Trumper" republicans/conservatives was a double-edged sword. It would help Biden, but might also hurt down ballot Dems. IMO, it was a combination of both these things that caused Dems to lose seats.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #118)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:21 AM

134. That's not the reason down ballot dems underperformed out of MOE polling. The whole article is a ...

... guess on what happened instead of any empirical evidence.

Bottom line, let us see the data on DTP being a reason a majority of down ballot dems who under performed ALL of the low MPOE polling

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 06:41 PM

82. Democrats and progressives need to learn messaging, and message discipline.

I hope people were taking notes when the Lincoln Project went to work. It's not every election cycle that we get to borrow an evil genius from the enemy and turn their tactics against a deserving target.

They run circles around garbage like "Defund the Police". When I suggested on Twitter that it's time to reframe and make a better slogan, all of the sudden, I'm a tone-policing bougie good-German. Don't blame me the next time we sit here scratching our heads wondering how the bastards got the better of us. I explained it to them, but they didn't like my answer.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:16 PM

165. This attack is currently being used in Georgia

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:13 PM

84. Why didn't down ballot dems respond to polling that showed this beating them down ballot? tia

Because no slogan or term explains why down ballot dems underperformed polling so HORRIDLY instead of polling showing the slogan

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #84)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 01:35 AM

119. A huge catastrophe': Democrats grapple with congressional and state election losses

Here is a good explanation https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/huge-catastrophe-democrats-grapple-congressional-state-election-losses-n1248529

The Biden campaign's goal was to make 2020 a referendum on Trump's chaotic term, and it succeeded, but the results were far worse down the ballot.

In leaked recording, Biden says GOP used 'defund the police' to 'beat the living hell' out of Democrats
Republicans barraged swing districts with ads linking moderates to the most far-left voices in the party, which has led to bitter recriminations between the factions.

"When you're Joe Biden and you have 47 years in public life and you have a billion dollars behind you, you can build your own brand," said Matt Bennett, executive vice president of the centrist think tank Third Way. "But when you're down-ballot, it's hard to outrun that brand in red and purple districts."

I saw this in two down ballot races in my county where the GOP ran a ton of defund the police and soclialsim ads

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #119)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:29 AM

137. Which were countered how by dems? Also, were the candidates you're speaking of...

... up outside of MOE the 5 days before Nov 3rd ?

I'm speaking of the huge amount of down ballot dems who were performing up outside of MOE up to election and then were defeated.

A slogan didn't beat them, they wouldn't have been up beyond MOE the 5 days before 11/3

No where in any developed country is polling that HISTORICALLY HORRID as to have a number of candidates up outside of MOE then get defeated with the multitude of wins going towards one party.

That doesn't happen in other countries.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #137)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:56 AM

143. The real world is a nice place

In the real world, Democrats lost a ton of downballot races that they should have won. In the real world, a down ballot candidate does not have the money or media attention to counter a GOP lie like Joe was able to. Again, read the material posted. From the NBC artile cited in the prior post
"When you're Joe Biden and you have 47 years in public life and you have a billion dollars behind you, you can build your own brand," said Matt Bennett, executive vice president of the centrist think tank Third Way. "But when you're down-ballot, it's hard to outrun that brand in red and purple districts."

This ignorant slogan hurt down ballot candidates. I work on the campaigns for several candidates this cycle. I have three friends who ran who lost this cycle. The party/DCCC put a ton of money into these races and these candidate were unable to overcome the effectos of GOP attackins using Defund the Police, MFA and socialism

The real world is a nice place. You would have a different prespective if you actually worked on a campaign

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 07:38 PM

90. Agree

There were non stop adds against the dem candidate over this and socialism etc. here, she was ahead by 2% in a late August poll, she ended up losing by around 10% once the mail ins were counted.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2020, 11:12 PM

110. PHRASING.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 07:54 AM

131. Defunding the police wouldn't solve the problems

The problem with the police is inedequate training, widespread corruption, and the protection of strong unions which allows cops to get away with illegal acts without repercussion. Defunding the police addresses none of these issues. Proper training and screening of candidates would require more funding, not less.

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Response to dansolo (Reply #131)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:15 AM

139. this town disagrees

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:21 AM

133. And playing nice with the repugs will be how they beat us again. nt

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:25 AM

135. Living near a white middle class republican neighborhood- he is absolutely correct about this

Everyone on nextdoor was posting about how crowds from the city will be pouring into our neighborhood and causing havoc and that the police will be defunded. republicans took that and ran.

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Response to dsp3000 (Reply #135)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 03:16 PM

154. that level of racism from your neighbors

...didn't originate with that slogan.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 09:26 AM

136. "Hold them accountable" for.....?

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2020, 11:36 AM

142. Katie Porter is on "The View" this morning, and she just called it a slogan and said....

....relying on a slogan isn't the way to do it.

I wish I knew it was coming, I'd have gotten an exact quote.

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Response to George II (Reply #142)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:15 PM

164. +1000, love Katie Porter telling it like it is.

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Response to Gothmog (Original post)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:14 PM

163. I saw a ton of ads using the "Defund the Police" slogan very effectively against Democrats in Texas

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #163)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:29 PM

166. They're doing it all over the state of Georgia in the two runoff campaigns. It's getting nasty.

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Response to George II (Reply #166)

Sun Dec 13, 2020, 08:40 PM

167. This dumb slogan may cost us two senate seats

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