Pres Obama said we shouldn’t judge him against the ideal but judge him against his opponents.

[rhett o rick]

I am disappointed by this remark. Think about it. The President doesn’t have to do much as long as he is better than the idiots that our over-lords run against him. Don’t you wonder why all the republicon candidates are idiots? I know you want to think that all republicons are idiots, but I doubt it.

When there is only one choice, I think we are being manipulated.

[Arctic Dave]

1. It does seem like a very strange remark coming from

afrom a guy who pushed the "race to the top" meme.

I guess that is only for "other" people.

[boxman15]

2. Or it could just be that President Obama has been held back by the most partisan and treasonous

actions taken by a political party since the Civil War. He's been fighting for progress and has achieved a hell of a lot in the face of unprecedented obstructionism. We need to vote these GOPers out in 2012 or else we are screwed. It'll just be more of the same. No, Obama has not been perfect. Far from it. But, he's our best hope for progress in the future, and giving him a solidly LIBERAL Democratic majorities is crucial for progress.

[MisterP]

5. just like Reagan's far-left agenda was thwarted!

[Zoeisright]

12. Exactly.

Nice to see an honest, pragmatic reply.

[rhett o rick]

20. How have the Republicons affected his DOJ. They have spent way more resources

on prosecuting medical marijuana dispensaries and food stamp fraud than he has Wall Street crime. His DOJ has prosecuted less Wall Street crime than Bush. BUSH WAS TOUGHER ON WALL STREET THAN OBAMA.

OWS happened because Obama failed to change the Wall Street/Congress connection.

[rhett o rick]

4. First please explain why I should be respectful to republicons.

And Huntsman will not take any votes away from the very conservative Obama.

[Uranus Needs Men]

8. I find it very divisive, which is not how I see the world

I grew up in a liberal area and have lived here all my days, so perhaps others are more reactionary about Republicans, etc. because they've had to deal with close-mindedness. My blue state has moderate Republicans, some of whom (I dare say) are more respectable than some of the Democrats have acted.

To be a progressive doesn't mean only liking who agrees with you but having compassion to understand why people vote otherwise (sometimes against their best interests!). For instance, I know a sweetheart of a man who is Republican, middle-class (only because he and his wife work their asses off) and pissed off because he falls between the cracks when it comes to his sons getting college loans, etc. He makes too much for them to get subsidized loans and I think that's unfair, too! He has worked hard all his life and I think he doesn't like people being on the dole for no reason (in his mind). He isn't racist or unkind but we all have blind spots. I also know fundamentalists who became down on Dubya when their small business hit the skids. They saw how the banksters got away with their crimes AND got bailed out and they know who's to blame.

[rhett o rick]

16. Actually I understand and dont totally disagree.

My grandfather and father were good Republicans. I was a Republican until Nixon. I wish there was a decent Republican party to keep the Democratic Party honest and more progressive. But in my mind the current Republican Party is a literal joke.

[rhett o rick]

17. By the way, I disagree with the jury in hiding your post. nm

[JDPriestly]

48. Actually, the Republicans were mostly to blaim for the fact

that the banksters got bailed out. Obama is responsible for the fact that the banksters got away with their crimes.

Just try committing fraud on your bank or embezzling money your employer has entrusted to you. You will see how quickly the wheels of justice turn. You will be facing the judge very quickly.

Yet the Wall Street crowd committed fraud and embezzled money entrusted to them -- and is getting by with it thanks to the Obama administration.

That Wall Street did not commit crimes is a pretty unbelievable idea. How about bribery of government officials? That's a big one. Aren't all those campaign donations just a form of bribery?

[FarLeftFist]

7. 2nd item on the agenda: Go AWAY.

[rhett o rick]

19. Yikes, where does that come from? nm

[Motown_Johnny]

6. that remark was aimed at swing voters, not at us

[FarLeftFist]

9. What he actually said was "Don't judge me to the Almighty, judge me to the alternative".

[rhett o rick]

14. What he actually said was, "He rejected questioner Steve Kroft’s suggestion that the public was

judging him on his performance as president. “I’m being judged against the ideal,” he said. “Joe Biden has a good expression. He says, ‘Don’t judge me against the Almighty, judge me against the alternative.’”

I am a little confused at your anger here. Are you angry because I call the republicons names or because I object to being forced into a corner and voting for Obama?

[AtomicKitten]

28. "... I object to being forced into a corner and voting for Obama."

Really? Do tell. You've made it pretty clear you aren't voting for him period.

Why the kabuki theater?

[rhett o rick]

31. Nice try. I said nothing of the such. I object to being manipulated into

only one choice. Apparently you dont.

[AtomicKitten]

39. Uh-huh.

[Wait Wut]

50. Are you that easily manipulated?

I was supporting Pres. Obama before he made this statement. Trust me, I'm far from easily manipulated. I can admit that if he were the worst possible Democrat running against the clowns on the right, I would still support him. I just wouldn't be AS supportive.

I've seen what happens under Republican rule and I don't like it. My vote goes for the Democrat. My enthusiasm goes to the Democrat currently occupying the White House.

[FarLeftFist]

40. When was I angry? I think you posted in the wrong place. I'm all FOR calling republicons names.

[rhett o rick]

45. My mistake. I am having a little trouble following the thread lines. I thought your "go away" post

was aimed at me. Now I see it was for poster #3 and I concur.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Vote for me because I don't suck as much as they do. Nice. n/t

[emilyg]

23. What a slogan.

[Zoeisright]

11. He's absolutely right.

This is the real world, not some purity test. And there are consequences to elections.

[nobodyspecial]

13. Yes, when Obama loses

the Republicans will make it really, really bad. At this point, the people will rise up and usher in our glorious revolution.

Only problem with this thinking is how long it will take people to really wake up, how many will suffer, if revolution really is possible and whether it will bring the change we are seeking or usher in something even worse.

[Ship of Fools]

34. Agreed. Otherwise, it's going to be a tight race.

But in the end enough people will be denied access to the voting booth
to start getting pissed off/violent. This is not going to end well, imho.

[tblue37]

46. Molly Ivins said it best--She said it was tempting to agree with Nader

that people needed to see how bad the Republicans would make things so that they would learn their lesson, but that in the process our country--and our children's country would be pretty much ruined beyond repair. Besides, as is all too obvious, people don't pay close enough attention to "learn their lesson." Instead, the "lesson they" learn is "Throw the bums out!"--i.e., vote out all incumbents, even when they are the ones on our side, and even if they are voting in Teabagger idiots. Or they learn, "Don't bother voting. Express disapproval and disappointment by staying home," which also allows the radical rightwing to take control.

[ProSense]

15. Um

"Don’t you wonder why all the republicon candidates are idiots? I know you want to think that all republicons are idiots, but I doubt it."

...what?

[rhett o rick]

18. Your one word argument is lacking. I would like a strong two party system.

What we have today is a joke. Because the Republicans have gone right off the edge of the world, we are left with one party. And without any challenge from the right, the Democrats can shun the progressives and wallow with the corporatist lobbyists. I know you dont understand because you apparently dont care what kind of leadership we have as long as they put a D behind their name. Jeff Immelt isnt a Democrat.

[ProSense]

22. What

"I would like a strong two party system."

...I would like is for the Republican Party to disappear.

See post 21, I concur.

[Angry Dragon]

26. And then you have chaos

Look what happened when the USSR lost its super power status.
No one to keep the US in check. The world needs balance and
balance does not exist in the world today.
The political process is out of balance and if the republicans
would just go away it would be even worse.

[rhett o rick]

30. So you want a one party political system?

I guess you dont care what they do as long as they are Democrats.

[ProSense]

32. Does

"So you want a one party political system?"

...a two party system mean the other party has to be the Republican Party? I mean, unlike you, I believe the current Republican party are all idiots.

In fact, many of the President's critics despise the fact that he deals with them at all.

[rhett o rick]

37. I would like the republican party to go back to being moderate and leave

the idiots out to swing in the wind. I would like the Conserva-Dems to go back to the REpublican party where they belong. They run as Democrats but they vote as republicons. I want the DEmocratic party to start embracing progressive ideals.
And while I am at it, I want world peace in my lifetime.

[bigtree]

21. this is gibberish

"Don’t you wonder why all the republicon candidates are idiots? I know you want to think that all republicons are idiots, but I doubt it. "

They ARE all idiots.

[slay]

24. So slightly better than a republican is all it takes to win these days huh?

yeah i can see why people think the system is broken - that's like admitting it's a system of purely bad choices - because there are no true choices - just shades of bad.

my dead dog looks good next to the crazy republicans so that shit don't fly with me mr. president.

[Angry Dragon]

25. So sad

[saras]

27. A month-old dead gopher will outperform his opponents. Does he NEED a bar that low?

[Aerows]

36. LOL

I pretty much thought the same thing. The Republican choice of candidates is so pathetic, I don't see how any of them think they can win. The month-old dead gopher would make a better president than any of them, because at least the dead gopher wouldn't do harm.

[bowens43]

29. another Obama cop out

he disgusts me more every day.

[ProSense]

33. Are

"another Obama cop out"

... you certain it isn't arrogance?

[NNN0LHI]

35. Why didn't you post the actual quote by President Obama?

Why are you paraphrasing what he said instead of quoting him?

What was the purpose of doing that?

Don

[rhett o rick]

43. I should have quoted him. I did in post 9.

I am saying what it sounded like to me. What did you think he meant?

[NNN0LHI]

49. You avoided my question

Why didn't you use the actual quote by the president in your OP?

I think he means exactly what he said. His words speak for themselves.

And if in retrospect you now think you should have quoted him accurately you can still edit your OP to reflect that if you mean what you are now saying.

Don

[rhett o rick]

52. Let's look at your questions.

"Why didnt you post the actual quote by President Obama?" I mentioned that I was wrong in not quoting him.

"Why are you paraphrasing what he said instead of quoting him?" I mentioned that I was wrong in not quoting him. And was relating what I heard him saying.

"What was the purpose of doing that?" I was relating what I heard him saying.

Now do you disagree with what I thought he was saying? Dont judge him on his record but judge him against who his opponents are.

[rhett o rick]

51. Self delete

[bvar22]

38. LOL.

You can't set the Bar for Judgment any lower.

Please don't measure me against Ideals, Values, or History.
Instead, look at how bad the Republicans are.

If we surrender Ideals as the Measuring Stick,
we lose all sense of direction.
Just being Better than the Republican Clown Car
is NOT something I am motivated fight FOR.
However, I WILL fight for an Ideal.

Thats the problem with "Centrism."
..NO "Ideals",
no ultimate GOAL,
No "perfection",
and therefore, no way to measure progress or direction.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
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[Sheepshank]

42. Cite and context would be nice

I haven't bothered to read down thread

[Bill USA]

44. Okay, if you judge him against "the almighty" (to quote him) what do you do if he's not perfect?

Last edited Wed Dec 14, 2011, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

ask for God to come down and take over?


.... is that one of your options?

[rhett o rick]

53. I want to judge him against his accomplishments and failures, not on how

much better he is than crap.

And when he said "the almighty" he was quoting Vice Pres Biden.

[bvar22]

47. I hold these "Ideals" to be self-evident for anyone who calls themself a Democrat"

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."--- FDR, 1944

The above values are Human RIGHTS that should be available to everyone without exception.
These are NOT Commodities to be be sold by "private" Corporations to enrich the Ownership Class.
These are the values and goals for which I will fight.
"Ideals" if you will.

I will resist ANY movement AWAY from these Ideals,
and support any movement toward them.
I will use these "Ideals" as MY Democratic Party Measuring Stick.
Movement toward these "ideals" is HOW I will measure progress.

Let the chips fall where they may.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
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