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Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:22 PM

 

AOC: Why do we listen to people who lost elections as if they are experts in winning elections?

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Reply AOC: Why do we listen to people who lost elections as if they are experts in winning elections? (Original post)
melman Nov 2020 OP
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Response to melman (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:32 PM

4. AOC is awesome and is an amazing Democrat.

She’s the face of the future of our party whether you like it or not. And I love it!!

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Response to PTWB (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:42 PM

13. Then she should get her ass off Twitter and prove it.

Come to the South and start doing rallies in these rural areas where Trump goes and see how well she is received. If she's right, more power to her, since she will help Democrats and prove to skeptical Democrats like McCaskill and myself. If she is wrong, she should pipe down about what these type of voters want.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:30 PM

61. She's a rep in NYC

She does plenty there. Perhaps you should find you own AOC.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:00 PM

27. I like her too...but this election has shown clearly that we can't win the Senate in red states

without moderate candidates. So she can not be the face of our party or we will end up in the minority consistently. Based on this election, with Black men and Latina voters, demographics will not be enough. We must compete in purple or red states. I think Stacey Abrams is the face of our party really in the future.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:01 PM

29. Has it?

Look how much money we burned in McConnells race when we ran the moderate instead of the progressive. Not saying the progressive would win in KY, but I doubt it would be any worse! 😂

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Response to PTWB (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:03 PM

36. Exactly! nt

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Response to PTWB (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:03 PM

117. I like AOC, but she would not have won in Kentucky.

No one like her would have won, I know because my parents still live there, and they thought that McGrath was far left.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:06 PM

42. I live in a purple state and we ran a moderate candidate

and still lost. If you wondering I live in NC. It's much bigger than running a moderate candidate to win in those states. I think the hardcore red states have made up their mind in the sense that they will never elect a democratic candidate regardless of how moderate that candidate is. It's come to that point of extremism.

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Response to Jspur (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:48 PM

99. But yet a red state like Florida passed a progressive measure like $15/hr min wage.

We've listened to repukes bad-mouth progressives so long that we've come to believe it too it seems.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:59 PM

100. Polls have consistently favored progressive polices such as universal healthcare, free college,

15 dollar minimum wage but when a Democrat tries to introduce these type of policies immediately they are branded as socialist. My theory is if a republican ran on these polices that it would not be seen as socialism. Look at the ACA and how they have screamed it is socialism when it was actually a policy the GOP came up with during the 90's but because Obama passed it is now seen as socialism. I'm just convinced these people will always label anything a democrat does as socialism. I know this sounds unpopular among some in here but I believe AOC,Bernie would lose by the same margins as Biden did in these red states because all Democrats are now socialists in 21st century America in the eyes of republicans. I say this because even when a democrat passes a right leaning policy that policy is branded as socialism. I can say this that the solution is not to keep going more to the right to win these people over because they will never be satisfied. I wish there was a way to fix this but I don't see any solution in the short term.

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Response to Jspur (Reply #100)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:22 PM

220. John Dingell SENIOR introduced universal health care insurance (not just "universal health care")...

back in 1943. He wasn't branded a socialist.

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Response to George II (Reply #220)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:30 AM

295. It was a different era where people loved and

trusted government. The country had just been scarred by the Great Depression so there was a lot of distrust of corporations. The New Deal was very popular and made people trust government. We are now in an era that’s bizarre in a way that the majority of people want progressive economic reforms but the problem is a good chunk of these people hate the government and democrats which prevents implementing these policies. At least half of country is stuck with 1980 mindset that government is evil and corporations are good.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:30 PM

62. It was proven back in 2018 that we can't win in red states or "middle America" without ....

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

....moderate candidates. Thankfully it was proven only in primaries, and our Democratic candidates who won those primaries went on to win their General Elections.



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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:51 PM

87. We ran a moderate in KY

how did that turn out?

We ran a moderate in Iowa. That didn't go well either.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #87)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 05:41 PM

110. And you think that running someone less moderate would have done better

 

in a red state?

Do you have any sort of research on this other than your opinion?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #87)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:28 PM

133. Amy McGrath is not a moderate

She tried to run to the middle, but she was hung with her stupid gaffe about "being the most progressive person in the state in Kentucky." Mitch ran that over and over and over.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #87)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:39 PM

183. Do you actually think

A leftist NY-style Dem can win in KY or Iowa? Because that is irrational. People aren't voting for McConnell because they want a lefty. Jesus. Funny how people turn around and do exactly what AOC just said people shouldn't do.
This is the DU member formerly known as BainsBane.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:02 PM

89. That proved to be true here in AZ in 2018 with Krysten Sinema

And this election Mark Kelly ran (and won!) as pragmatist who would act independently from party leadership.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:00 PM

198. many of the fails Senate-wise where the more moderate ones from the primaries

Stacey Abram is not a centrist moderate btw (and yes, I love her and wished she had run versus the worm Perdue or the uber thugette criminal vermin Loeffler, but she did heavy-lifting in other ways so not a total loss) She transcends labels, IMHO.


The biggest problem was the horrific recruiting by Schumer and Cortez Masto.

we only had THREE (out the 13 flappable races) races where we had our strongest candidate

AZ win

CO win

MT (and Bullock could have won if he had not been cash-starved (for instance millions of people tossing away over 200 million USD to the fantasyland KY and SC races, as he was leading up until RW dark money dropped in well over 50 million USD to falsely smear him as a commie, and he did not have the cash to truly fight back) I max out to him and Pete, the only two Dems I maxed out on, other than Biden. So frustrated, as Daines is a true POS.

that leaves (none of these had the strongest candidate)

TX I understand why Beto did not run, but the plain fact is, he was the best shot, Hegar was a poor candidate, and an ex-Repub, and tbh, should not even have been in the mix, as she might have (proably would have perhaps) won in 2018 for the US House, if DINO forced-birther, anti-immigrant anti-LGBTQ bigot Henry Cuellar (who almost lost just now in 2020, we really need to primary him out in 2022) had not back-stabbed Hegar and the Party and actively campaigned and fund-raised for her Rethug, racist, climate change denying, forced birther, rabid anti-immigrant, gay-bashing opponent, John Carter.

KY (Beshear would have been best, but he ran and won the Governor race) Charles Booker would have won the primary if it had been a month later, and would have done better versus Moscow McTurtle, I am very sure, than McGrath, who started her campaign in true 'look at me I am so centrist' mode by saying she would have supported and voted for drunk-rapey Kavanaugh (disastrous move, it demoralised the Dem base so much)

TN Tim McGraw is one of the ones (probably the number one) I am most irate at for turning down running, as he has now TWICE, in 2 years turned down OPEN SEAT RACES (he would have easily won in 2018, Blue wave and a SHIT opponent in wingnut and genuinely stupid (up there with Daines (MT), Ernst, and Ron Johnson for the least intelligent US Senator) Marsha Blackburn, after promising for the past 2 decades he would run for TN US Senate when he was 50 and he is 53 now) I am just FURIOUS with McGraw

NC 2 more huge turn-downs, Foxx and Stein, that I am so upset with, as Cunningham was the weakest by far, and blew an easy pick off versus the horrid and oh-so-vulnerable Tillis, in good deal due to his damn sex scandal

AK we did not even field a candidate! Begich, who WAS a Dem US Senator, refused to run, ffs

ME Susan Rice, grr, she would have smashed the fuckstick Collins, Gideon was not at Rice's level

IA another blown opportunity, Vilsack would have won, and yet said nope, same for (probably) Chet Culver and maybe even Cindy Axne. Greenfield was the weakest of all 4 IMHO

GA Special and GA Regular (we still have a shot at each, woot) All things weighed up, Stacey Abrams and Sally Yates would have had the best chances IMHO, both said nope.

KS another one I am raging on, Sibelius was BY FAR our best shot, the major papers said she was not only the only Dem who could win, but that she probably would win, and she flat out said NO, grrrrrr Bollier, another ex Rethug (can we stop running recently ex Rethugs!) lost and it was not that close.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:00 PM

116. I think that she's more Justice Democrat. n/t

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Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:42 PM

11. AOC is a Democratic candidate and office holder

 

McCaskill is a TV pundit. So exactly who is attacking the Democratic party?
This is the DU member formerly known as Trumpocalypse.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #11)


Response to Post removed (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:49 PM

17. Sound like Republicans are attacking Democrats

 

And have never heard AOC claim to know more about rural voters.
This is the DU member formerly known as Trumpocalypse.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:53 PM

19. AOC is claiming she knows better how to win voters over in these states.

And then when a Republican run against """socialist""" boogeymen like her and Sanders, she has the nerve to claim that it is the fault of the DEMOCRAT that lost because of bullshit like that.

Like I said, she should get the **** off Twitter and come to these areas and see what reality is. If she thinks there are all these hidden progressives hidden out in the boondocks of these Southern states, come ******* find them for us.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:55 PM

23. Link?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:58 PM

26. Link to what?

Read her damn tweet.

Who do you think knows more about the voters in Missouri: McCaskill, even though she lost, or AOC?

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:00 PM

28. To prove your accusations

 

Or at least prove what he tweeted is false.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:02 PM

33. It's up to HER to prove HER claims.

Come to these ******* areas and hold some rallies in these rural areas and let's see how well she is received. Show us all these secret """socialist""" voters out there in the boondocks. Sanders relied on that same false narrative in the last two primaries -- how well did that turn out for him?

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:03 PM

37. Thanks for admitting

 

You can prove what you've posted.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:07 PM

43. I can prove it:

See Sanders's failures to turn out these secret """socialists""" in the either of these primaries.

Now, time for his and AOC's side to show us how we're all so wrong, but they won't be doing that on the internet or by doing rallies in blue cities in blue states. See all those red areas on the map? Go there and let's see how well you are received.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:14 PM

51. Not proof but opinion

 

And AOC and Sanders are not the same person. So prove your accusations or admit that you can't.
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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:32 PM

66. Woe just wow.

You’re certainly not helping yourself. Need a bigger shovel?

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Response to Javaman (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:01 PM

249. Seriously.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:44 PM

83. Here's one, where she got into it with Tammy Duckworth. As it turned out....

....Tammy Duckworth was right - every candidate she endorsed in the Midwest wound up losing to a Midwestern moderate Democrat. That's the case elsewhere around the country - even outside the Midwest.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/01/democrats-ocasio-cortez-tammy-duckworth-midwest

As you may recall, in 2018 she and Justice Democrats endorsed 79 Democrats in primaries and/or general elections, only 7 of them won. And of those 7, two were already incumbents and one ran unopposed. Thankfully in most of those primary cases the victorious Democrat went on to win in the general election.

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Response to George II (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:48 PM

84. Link just shows the headline.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #84)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:01 PM

88. Here are the first four paragraphs:

Ocasio-Cortez politics will not win in midwest, says Duckworth

After stunning primary upset in New York, Illinois senator cautions party that democratic socialism will not work nationally

As Democrats calibrate their political messaging in advance of the November midterm elections, Senator Tammy Duckworth cautioned her party not to become too starry-eyed about the success in New York of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who won an upset primary victory this week.

While Ocasio-Cortez’s candidacy might have been a fit for New York’s 14th congressional district, said Duckworth, the junior senator from Illinois, her brand of Democratic socialism would not work in the midwest. Ocasio-Cortez ran to the left of incumbent Joe Crowley, a 20-year veteran of Congress.

“I think that you can’t win the White House without the midwest,” Duckworth told CNN’s State of the Union. “And I don’t think that you can go too far to the left and still win the midwest.

“Coming from a Midwestern state, I think you need to be able to talk to the industrial midwest. You need to listen to the people there in order to win an election nationwide.”


As we saw shortly after that, Tammy Duckworth was correct.

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Response to George II (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:03 PM

90. Thanks but

 

Duckworth was criticizing AOC not the other way around.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #90)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:09 PM

92. That was a response to comments made on Twitter about Midwestern Democratic candidates being too....

...."moderate". As it turned out each of those "moderate" Democrats defeated the more "progressive" Democrat in the primary and then went on to win their general elections - confirming what Senator Duckworth said.

It was more than two years ago, I don't know how to go back that far to find specific tweets. Maybe someone here more experience in searching Twitter can do so.

It went back and forth a few rounds, too.

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Response to George II (Reply #92)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:11 PM

93. What comments?

 

Can you post them?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #93)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:37 PM

95. Like I said, I don't know how to find 2+ year old tweets.

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Response to George II (Reply #95)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:40 PM

96. Here's a link to twitter's advanced search

 

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Response to melman (Reply #96)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

242. Not interested in going back more than two years to "answer" something that's obvious. But thanks.

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Response to George II (Reply #242)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:58 PM

246. Okay

 

So you acknowledge these "comments" do not exist.


Thanks.

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Response to melman (Reply #246)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:02 PM

252. No, I know they exist. Just not interested in doing someone else's work for him/her. You're welcome.

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Response to George II (Reply #252)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:06 PM

255. No

 

You claimed they exist. You were asked to prove this.

You said you couldn't provide proof because you didn't know how to find them.


Now you've been shown how and you switched to "I don't want to find them"


This is because you know they do not exist.

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Response to George II (Reply #95)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 04:42 PM

97. Is there anything in the article?

 

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Response to George II (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:03 PM

156. Exactly - moderate and centrist Democrats are the future of the party

 

Not twitter celebrities in extremely safe district.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:09 PM

46. The republicans are now painting every Democrat as a

socialist. They did that with Biden-Harris and we both know those 2 are far from being socialist. Notice how Biden lost every southern state except VA despite not being a socialist. The republican strategy from this point forward is to scream that every democrat is a socialist so I don't see the point of getting angry at AOC.

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Response to Jspur (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:58 PM

147. I think that was what lost us Florida. (nt)

 

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 05:12 PM

104. Unfortunatelyi her endorsement in Iowa for Greenfield didn't help Greenfield

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:51 PM

18. A week or so ago she was urging New York voters to vote on the Working Families Line, NOT....

....the Democratic Party line.

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 01:55 PM

22. So were Schumer and Gilibrand

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:10 PM

47. Here is what McCaskill said about the Democratic Party in the clip in the OP:

"Whether you are talking guns or...abortion...or gay marriage and rights for 'transexuals' and other people who we as a party 'look after' and make sure they are treated fairly. As we circled the issues we left voters behind and Republicans dove in."

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Response to Mariana (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:15 PM

52. So?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:25 PM

59. It's funny to read folks squawking that AOC is criticizing the Democratic Party

when she was responding to criticism of the Democratic Party by McCaskill.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:20 PM

73. Yes

 

Yes it is.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:22 PM

74. Actually she wasn't criticizing the Democratic Party, not at all.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:29 PM

77. Exactly

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #77)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:02 PM

200. But you said AOC should be criticized for criticizing the Democratic party.

 

Which is it?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #200)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:17 PM

216. Yes she should

 

But in this case she wasn’t the one criticizing the Democratic Party.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #216)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:41 AM

344. And you're right about AOC. My apologies.

 

See how that works?

However Senator McCaskill was offering constructive advice, and not diminishing the party as someone who is an outsider. And she certainly has the experience in successful elections to be respected when she does offer suggestions.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #344)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:49 AM

349. That's your opinion

 

Which you are entitled to. And others are free to disagree.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #349)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 02:19 PM

471. Irrelevant. No one said they weren't... what did that strawman ever do to you?

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #471)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 03:33 PM

477. Just as I thought

 

It’s just all about winning
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #477)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:14 PM

478. Irrelevant.

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #478)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:15 PM

480. Weak

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #480)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:16 PM

482. Lulz... just sayin' what you would.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #477)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:17 PM

484. More projection.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:17 PM

53. A turd with a D next to it wins in her district.

 

Claire on the other hand had to win in a less friendly locale.

I like a lot about AOC, but this was an unnecessary shot.

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:19 PM

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

 

Over a Democratic party elected official?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:20 PM

56. I am defending a former dem politician

 

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:21 PM

57. Former, being the operative work,

 

vs a current one.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 02:23 PM

58. Ok...

 

Look I am not a massive claire fan or anything but a freshman rep from a super safe district dismissing a seasoned politician who had to win in a tough location seems like one of the dumber things to be going on about. I like AOC but there was no reason for this.

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:31 PM

78. So it was wrong for her to defend the party

 

against the criticism of a TV pundit?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #78)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:38 PM

80. Good Lord.

 

Yeah sure whatever.

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #80)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:48 PM

85. Thanks!

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #78)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:16 PM

123. One could describe AOC as a "pundit," as much as she's on the media.

 

Or appearing at SXSW, etc.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #123)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:19 PM

125. She's an elected Democratic Party representative

 

Not a paid tv pundit.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #125)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:21 PM

129. So that makes everything she says more valuable than any former Party representative,

 

no matter how much more experienced? Like Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama?

Why is that?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #129)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:25 PM

131. .

 

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Response to melman (Reply #131)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:28 PM

135. .

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #129)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:30 PM

137. No it means she shouldn't get slammed

 

for criticizing a TV pundit who knocked the Democratic Party.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #137)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:46 PM

140. You were the one slamming people for being paid to appear, if they were former politicians.

 

I didn't slam AOC... are you confusing me with someone else, or just attacking a strawman when you have been shown to have double standards for politicians you don't like - former or present?

If you just don't like McCaskill, just own it. Don't try to make it about being on TV or being paid or no longer being in office.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #140)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:56 PM

146. I never slammed anyone for being a pundit

 

or even for what she said. So don’t dishonestly try to put words in my mouth.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #146)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:58 PM

148. This was you, yes?

 

Trumpocalypse (5,995 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?


Apparently, a TV pundit, who is a former Democratic party elected Senator is a lower form of life than a currently serving freshman congressperson, according to your statement.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #148)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:02 PM

152. Thanks for proving my point

 

I never criticized her but you keep trying to dishonestly put words in my mouth.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #152)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:03 PM

155. I didn't put these words there.

 

Trumpocalypse (5,995 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #129)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:52 PM

142. McCaskill wasn't just any former Party representative, she was a former Senator...

Her first election was historic, and being from a very red state being elected and re-elected is huge.

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Response to George II (Reply #142)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:55 PM

144. Yes. She has had more successes in her career than a freshman house member, and more exprerience.

 

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

In a red state, no less.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #144)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:08 PM

161. Big deal

 

Doesn’t absolve her of any criticism.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #161)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:35 PM

179. And being a sitting democratic freshmen congressperson does not automatically bestow more worth

 

than a former democratic rep who appears on TV to give commentary, and gets paid, which would mean the same for Carter and Obama.

But you seem to want to evade admitting that obvious fact.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #179)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:40 PM

185. Never said it did

 

But I’m not going to slam an elected Democrat versus a paid TV pundit.

And do you have proof Carter and Obama get paid for appearances on cable news?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #185)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #221)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:41 PM

231. So I guess that's a no

 

And I don’t care how many times McCaskill was elected in the past because it is not the past. It is the present and in the present she is a cable news pundit and anyone has the 1st amendment right to criticize her comments regardless of her past accomplishments.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #231)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:12 AM

287. Her success as a Senator is called "experience." This is why she a "political analyst"

 

Seriously? AOC's experience as a Bartender, degree at BU, being a board member of DSA and with her mother's health care issues are farther in the past than Senator McCaskill's Senate career, but are considered relevant to her current insights, yes? How long ago was Bernie involved in SNCC and MLK's March on Washington? Is that all irrelevant as well because it didn't happen in 2020?



She has far, far more experience with getting elected in a red state, and therefore firsthand knowledge about elections than AOC has. Granted, AOC has more experience in her short career with endorsing candidates that don't win elections, so I'll give you that...

BTW - the First Amendment is about government suppression of speech.

No one's First Amendment rights - not yours, not AOC's are at issue here. If someone can't handle a politician that they admire being
criticized, or handle the heat from their own public statement, that's a emotional issue, not a "free speech" issue.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #287)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:26 AM

290. Seems to me

 

you are the one having a problem handling a (former) politician you admire being criticized.



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Response to melman (Reply #290)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:09 AM

300. Well said

 

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Response to melman (Reply #290)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:47 AM

345. Projection?

 



I'm just pointing out the clear dislike and disrespect for people that a freshman congresswoman gets irritated by, that others try to futilely and disingenuously rationalize.

But it's nice of you to make them feel like they have someone to defend them, when several others have pointed out the same.





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Response to ehrnst (Reply #345)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:18 AM

365. I don't think so

 

Unless it's me that has over 90 rage-filled abusive posts in this thread.


But it's not.

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Response to melman (Reply #365)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:24 AM

370. "rage filled"

 

Projection? I think so.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #287)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:08 AM

299. And it's a shame that some can't handle criticism

 

of Claire McCaskill.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #299)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:01 AM

354. Some just can't handle criticism of a freshman congressperson who is clearly irritated

 

by a more experienced Democratic leader, Senator McCaskill who is talking on TV, on the news in a discussion, in a respectful and inclusive way about the Democratic party and what it should be focusing on next.

Perhaps the freshman congressperson felt that she should have been the one talking on TV about the election and the Democratic Party instead of the Senator.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #354)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:13 AM

359. Nope

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #359)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:24 PM

421. Yep!

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #421)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:28 PM

427. Nope

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #427)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:32 PM

433. Yep!

 

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Response to George II (Reply #142)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:59 PM

149. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman are former Democratic Senators

 

And whatever she accomplished in the past doesn’t absolve her of criticism.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #149)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:03 PM

154. Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama are former Democratic POTUS, who are paid for appearances.

 

Which makes them inferior to any freshman reps who might disagree with something they said, according to you.


Trumpocalypse (5,995 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #154)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:08 PM

160. Did AOC criticize Obama or Carter?

 

Please provide a link.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #160)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:26 PM

171. Nice attempt at a derail...this is about you refusing to acknowledge the logical extension of your

 

judgement on the terms that you judge McCaskill.

You keep bringing Leiberman and Miller into the discussion... I might well ask you for a link to where AOC has criticized them for all the relevance that has.



If *you* are going to diss McCaskill as a "paid TV Pundit who is just a former elected Democratic representatives" as being less worthy of respect than AOC because she is a currently serving rep, then *you" are also tarring Carter and Obama with the same brush.

Unless you just don't like McCaskill, and you like Obama and Carter, which would make more sense.

You got upset that people criticized AOC for saying something negative about someone you don't like. You lashed out at the person that AOC was criticizing as less valid or worthy, in defense of AOC, but when it was pointed out that your criticism of McCaskill was something that also applied to Obama and Carter, it came as a surprise, and you got flustered.

Doubling down on rationalizing your distaste for McCaskill and trying to deflect when it's pointed out that she's no different than Obama and Carter in that aspect, just becomes, as you put it, "embarassing" and not convicing.








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Response to ehrnst (Reply #171)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:31 PM

174. No it calling out a false equivalency

 

and strawman argument.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #174)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:38 PM

182. Because you say so? I've pointed out the very uncomfortable fact that your dismissive

 

generalization of "former Democratic elected official paid TV pundit" as less worthy than AOC includes Obama and Carter.

It's not a straman or false equivalence simply because I pointed out an embarassing gaffe.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #182)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:42 PM

186. No it is because it is

 

And Carter and Obama are not paid TV pundits. Stop pretending that they are.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #186)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:54 PM

193. You're still trying to double down on a gaffe and it's embarrassing.

 

Stop pretending that you can say that McCaskill is not worthy of respect because she's a former democratic rep who is paid to be on TV, and not include Obama and Carter.

You're mad people are defending her against AOC's criticism, and you lashed out at McCaskill with the first insult that you thought of, and it was a gaffe.

Just owning that it's dislike, and not about her being paid to be on TV that makes her seem inferior to AOC to you. That's just rationalization.





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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #149)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:12 PM

163. Those politicians changed their party and outright betrayed the dems.

It is a false equivalent

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Response to DLCWIdem (Reply #163)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:14 PM

165. So is bringing up Carter and Obama.

 

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Response to DLCWIdem (Reply #163)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:39 PM

184. It's an attempt at evading being called out on a gaffe. (nt)

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #149)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:22 PM

169. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman spoke at the republican National Convention. Has McCaskill?

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Response to George II (Reply #169)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:27 PM

172. True and were rightly criticized for it

 

As was McCaskill for the comment she made which she has since apologized for.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #172)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:57 PM

194. You're comparing a comment made by McCaskill on a political talk show to two "Democrats"....

....addressing the republican National Committee?

I'm gob smacked. Have a great evening.

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Response to George II (Reply #194)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:00 PM

197. I know. The false equivalence is breathtaking.

 

But when one is embarassed...

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Response to George II (Reply #194)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:20 PM

218. And some are comparing a former Senator

 

who is now a cable news pundit to former Presidents. Talk about gob smacked.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #218)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:28 PM

224. Actually, the comparison began with your assertion

that Democrats out of office were fair game for smearing.
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #224)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:32 PM

228. Well if they appeared on TV, anyway.

 



Carter and McCaskill even have the same booking agent.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #228)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:42 PM

234. Ah, AOCs comment was about not listening to

people who lost elections. Is that why you picked Carter? You never answered about Hillary.
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #234)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

238. I never picked Carter

 

Don’t pretend that I did.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #238)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:02 PM

251. Actually, I used Hillary as an example of a Democrat

out of office. AOC used Democrats who lost elections. Hillary lost an election, and she is worth listening to, just like Claire is. Both are ex Senators.

Now we see why smearing Democrats is kind of dicey. That’s probably why people analyze AOC’s comments.
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #251)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:07 PM

256. That still doesn't mean

 

McCaskill or anyone else can’t be criticized for their comments.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #256)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:12 PM

259. The same goes for AOC. She can be criticized for her

comments.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #259)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:21 PM

264. Sure she can

 

Never said she couldn’t be.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #264)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:18 AM

288. You've been rather testy and have gone on the offensive when someone actually has..

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #288)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:05 AM

298. Projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #298)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:49 AM

348. Projection of projection.

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #348)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:51 AM

350. Projection of projection of projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #350)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #353)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:14 AM

360. Projection of projection of projection of projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #360)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #470)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 03:32 PM

476. Already did

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #476)


Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #476)


Response to R B Garr (Reply #234)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:47 PM

240. I was responding to someone else who stated that McCaskill was less worthy than AOC

 

because she was a "former democratic rep who is a paid TV pundit."

I pointed out that both Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama also were paid to be on TV.

I used them as examples because one could not make the case that their views were worth less than AOC's, being former POTUS'.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #240)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:57 PM

245. Yes, I see that now, thank you. My phone doesn't

expand replies in the thread so I responded to you in error.

Agree with you — That’s why I asked the poster about Hillary Clinton — she’s an ex-Senator who lost an election, as the poster said it was okay to smear Democrats who are out of office. A Senator is just a step or so down from a President, so that makes lots of Democrats smearable.
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Response to ehrnst (Reply #228)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:43 PM

235. So what?

 

McCaskill is an NBC news contributor and is introduced as such. Is Carter?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #235)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:26 PM

266. And the goalposts keep on moving...

 



You really don't like Senator McCaskill, and you really get very protective of and defensive about any criticism of AOC. We get it.

You can take a break from trying to say it's something else... that keeps shifting one way or another and changing when people point out others to whom your insults apply who clearly aren't inferior in value, dignity accomplishment and intellect to AOC.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #266)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:31 PM

268. Yes because you keep moving them.

 

Never said I don’t like McCaskill just that she shouldn’t be immune from criticism.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #268)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:26 AM

291. Don't pretend someone said she should be immune from criticism.

 

Attacking a strawman: when you need to misrepresent someone else's statements as extreme to make your reactions seem reasonable by comparison.




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Response to ehrnst (Reply #291)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:02 AM

296. Never misrepresented anything

 

I let you do that.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #296)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #327)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:13 AM

329. Yes

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #329)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:18 AM

334. And yet you still post.

 

Being called out must have REALLY gotten under your skin. If I and the other people here were wrong about what you revealed about your dislike of who AOC is irritated at, you could just let it go.

But you can't.

And you keep on fishing in vain.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #334)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:19 AM

335. And so do you

 

Projection?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #335)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:25 AM

337. You keep on trying to get me to say something...

 

And I'm denying you that.

It's clearly very frustrating you, like when people point out Senator's McCaskill's far greater experience and insight on winning elections - difficult ones - than AOC.

Carry on.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #337)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:28 AM

339. More projection.

 

And it's former Senator.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #339)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:33 AM

342. One is called by the last office they held. You don't hear people address Obama or Carter as

 

"former president," but "Mr President." joe Biden was called "Mr. Vice President" all through the campaign. Do you have a problem with that? Are you going around DU correcting people who refer to him as Vice President and say it's Ex-Vice President?

I didn't think so. You know what the response would be... even if it's "a fact."



Senator McCaskill is the proper way to refer to her. You're welcome.

And your anger at people pointing out that Senator McCaskil far more experienced as a Democratic leader, and her insights on elections that are in deep blue districts is going to be more informed by years of experience than a freshman congresswoman who won a deep blue district, and whose endorsments did not win most of her candidates' elections.

Those are just facts, BTW.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #342)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:47 AM

346. Nope

 

When someone no longer holds an office it is proper to refer to them as former. Here is an example:

Former Vice President Joe Biden broke the record for the most number of votes cast for any presidential candidate in history by early Wednesday afternoon.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/04/biden-breaks-obama-votes-record-434057


Here's another:

Former President Barack Obama campaigns alongside Florida's leading Democratic candidates in Miami at Ice Palace Films Studios on Friday, Nov. 2, 2018.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/obama-campaign-biden-trump/index.html



No anger, just don't think that just because someone is an ex Senator makes them immune from criticism.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #346)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #352)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:15 AM

361. Great

 

Glad we agree!
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #361)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:34 PM

435. You and your strawman agree, that's for sure.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #346)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:09 AM

356. Here's your chance!

 

Go correct them, because they're calling Biden "Vice President Biden," instead of Ex-Vice President Biden or "Former Vice President" because they might TOTALLY think that they're talking about the CURRENT vice president!. You go tell 'em!!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214423417

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #228)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

237. Oh, phone typing! Sorry ehrnst, wrong reply.

Yes, the logic of who is smearable is hard to figure out, lol.
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #224)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:42 PM

233. Never said smearing

 

So please don’t lie.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #233)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

241. You smeared, you didn't say "smearing."

 

Still isn't working.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #241)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:59 PM

248. I never said it was ok to smear anyone.

 

Don’t lie.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #248)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:38 AM

343. Don't pretend that I ever said that you did. I, along with others, pointed out your obvious dislike

 

of that multi-term Senator that irritated a freshman congressperson by going on TV and talking about elections.

Don't lie.


Projection?





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Response to ehrnst (Reply #343)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:48 AM

347. No dislike

 

Why don't you debate the issue rather than the personal attacks? Isn't that you can't?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #347)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:06 AM

355. I'm pointing out what others have observed as well.

 

If you feel that pointing out that Senator McCaskill is far more experienced in winning elections, especially those which are not in a deep blue district, than the freshman congressperson is a "personal attack," then that's your issue.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #355)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:10 AM

357. Nothing wrong with that

 

Nor is it wrong to point out that she's a former Senator currently employed by NBC as a pundit.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #357)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:10 AM

358. Who disputed that or said those things were wrong?

 



Some thought that they made Senator McCaskill less credible than a freshman congressperson that was irritated that the Senator was on TV, when the freshman congressperson clearly thought that she was more of an expert analyst on what wins elections.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #358)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:17 AM

364. Good

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #364)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:27 PM

425. Good.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #233)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:06 PM

254. Claire was smeared for losing an election.

It’s the subject of the Twitter comment,
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #254)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:10 PM

257. That's your opinion

 

And you entitled to it. But I never said that it was ok to smear anyone as you accused.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #257)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:18 PM

261. However, you smeared McCaskill. Don't pretend you didn't.

 

Scroll up if you forgot.

Several people now have commented on that.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #261)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:20 PM

262. How did I smear McCaskill?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #262)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:35 PM

274. Don't pretend you didn't. Others have commented on your swipes.

 

But here you go... you don't even have to scroll. You can see the evolution and evasion as it's pointed out that those smears also apply to others who are clearly not inferior to AOC in accomplishment, intellect, experience and expertise...

Trumpocalypse (6,035 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?


and when someone points out AOC is also on news shows...

Trumpocalypse (6,035 posts)

125. She's an elected Democratic Party representative

Not a paid tv pundit.


When it's pointed out that she's Senator McCaskill, which is also a Democratic Party representative...

Trumpocalypse (6,036 posts)

267. An ex-senator who is now a pundit.



Any questions?



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #274)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:39 PM

276. Those are not smears

 

They are statements of fact. McCaskill is a cable news pundit. AOC is a democratic elected representative. Is that untrue?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #276)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:22 AM

289. Several people here have commented on your disrespect and insults. Here they are again...

 


Trumpocalypse (6,035 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?


and when someone points out AOC is also on news shows...

Trumpocalypse (6,035 posts)

125. She's an elected Democratic Party representative

Not a paid tv pundit.


When it's pointed out that she's Senator McCaskill, which is also a Democratic Party representative...

Trumpocalypse (6,036 posts)

267. An ex-senator who is now a pundit.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #289)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:05 AM

297. Not disrespect or insults, but facts.

 

What statement is untrue?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #297)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:17 AM

363. I'm one of several who saw the clear irritation with others who pointed out that

 

Senator McCaskill is far more experienced in what wins Democratic elections than the freshman congressperson.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

Perhaps the freshman congressperson was irritated because she wasn't invited on instead?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #363)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:22 AM

367. I stated facts

 

If others read something more into them, that's their issue.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #367)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:23 AM

368. I am stating facts as well.

 

If your posts were 'misunderstood' in the very same way by several people, that's your issue.

Communication 101.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #368)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:24 AM

371. Nope

 

That's their issue.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #371)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:40 AM

377. I guess we didn't misunderstand you then.

 

You just weren't subtle enough in your attempts to anger on people who defended McCaskill as being more experienced in winning elections, especially outside a deep blue district, and pointing out the freshman congressperson's previous judgement on what wins elections for Democrats did not pan out as well as McCaskill, who knew she would sacrifice her political career by serving her country in harmony with other Democrats.

Did you get a chance to read this? It really clarifies what you appear to be missing in the comments of people who thought that the freshman congressperson was misguided in her comments.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #377)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:42 AM

378. I just stated facts

 

Can’t help that some were threatened by them.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #378)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:45 AM

379. As many have pointed out, it is your attitude, not the facts.

 

Speaking of facts, did you get a chance to read this?

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

It explains the many of the statements that people made about how the freshman congressperson's tweet sounded misguided, that you've clearly misunderstood. After all - if you misunderstood them, that's your problem, right?



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #379)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 11:50 AM

382. My attitude is to discuss facts

 

and the issue and not to comment on people’s motivation.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #382)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:03 PM

384. The facts are that people here were pointing out your attitude

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #384)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:25 PM

385. That's their issue

 

I only stated facts.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #385)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:48 PM

391. Says the one who grouses about others' "attitudes" that you can't back up

 

with any facts. Can't provide any quotes that anyone "announced" that the Senator "is immune to criticism" just hyperbole that's hypocritical.

This is a fact. The freshman congresswoman's judgement on elections has not been as accurate as the multi-term Senator who got a red state to vote for them, despite the piqued response from the freshman congresswoman that she, not the Senator, should be "listened to" on a television program she clearly thought was influential enough to be problematic for her.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #391)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:50 PM

395. Projection again.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #395)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:01 PM

398. Fact...

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #398)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:01 PM

399. So?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #399)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:03 PM

402. This is a fact. Sorry that you seem bothered by facts. Not my problem though.

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #402)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:04 PM

405. Nope

 

It’s irrelevant to my argument.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #405)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:23 PM

420. Yep. It's relevant to what other people are talking about in this thread, which is what you are

 

complaining about. Is that clearer?

Just because it's uncomfortable for you doesn't make it irrelevant. The freshman congresswoman is asserting that she knows better than the Senator who actually won races outside of a deep blue NY district, when the facts show otherwise. Many people here commented on that, and I guess you chose to try to pretend otherwise.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #420)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:28 PM

426. Nope

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #426)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:31 PM

432. Yep. Just because you refuse to read the posts doesn't mean they're not there.

 

Unlike that "people are announcing that McCaskill's immune from criticism' strawman.

That's not there.



Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #257)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:20 PM

263. AOC's Twitter comment was an unnecessary

attack on an ex-Senator. The Twitter comment is in the OP.
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #263)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:26 PM

267. An ex-senator who is now a pundit.

 

McCaskill’s former job doesn’t mean she can’t be criticized for her comments. AOC, me, you or anyone else has the right to do so.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #267)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:31 PM

269. AOC's comments were about Claire's loss. Do we get to attack and

mock all those Cortez endorsed and then lost? Like Bernie?
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Response to R B Garr (Reply #269)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:33 PM

270. That's your opinion.

 

And no one should be immune from criticism.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #270)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:35 PM

273. Yes, AOC should not be immune from criticism.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #273)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:45 PM

278. Agreed

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #270)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:44 PM

277. It's your opinion that Senator McCaskill is less worthy of respect than AOC because

 

A. She's no longer in office
B. She gets paid for her analysis on TV, instead of being interviewed without pay, which a sitting representative must by law do for free.
C. She talked about the Democratic party (including herself in that definition) in a respectful way about how it could improve
D. AOC was offended by the idea that McCaskill spoke on TV about elections, in a way that indicated that AOC, as freshman rep dismissed the electoral insights of a Senator who was elected to multiple terms in a red state, because she knowingly sacrificed her seat to vote against Kavanaugh for the sake of party unity. AOC who has endorsed several candidates who went on to lose, and never be sitting Democratic reps at all, which she clearly didn't see the irony in when she questioned why McCaskill should be talking in public at all about elections, and accused her of "taking her base for granted."



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #277)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:47 PM

279. Never said McCaskill is less worthy of respect

 

so please don’t put words in my mouth.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #279)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:52 PM

280. Again...

 

Trumpocalypse (6,035 posts)

55. So you're defending a TV Pundit

Over a Democratic party elected official?


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #280)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 04:14 AM

304. Which is true

 

Are you claiming it isn’t?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #304)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 07:36 AM

306. And you're claiming you're not insulting McCaskill with the word choice, despite others here

 

getting that loud and clear?

Now who's the one doing the "pretending" that you accuse everyone else of who calls you out on your not-so-subtle digs?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #306)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 08:56 AM

310. How is it an insult

 

She works for NBC news. It is a statement of fact, not an insult.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #310)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 09:59 AM

314. Don't pretend your posts weren't diminishing and insulting the Senator.

 

Look at the replies from other people to your post pointing out the same thing.

TagURit.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #314)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:00 AM

316. Not pretending anything

 

Stating a fact that McCaskill is not a TV pundit who is employed by NBC is just a statement of fact. It is in no way an insult.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #316)


Response to Post removed (Reply #320)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:07 AM

321. Just stated facts

 

Don't you like facts?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #321)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #325)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:13 AM

328. Nope it's the facts

 

McCaskill is a TV pundit who works for NBC.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #328)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:15 AM

331. Yes,your choice of words in your posts made it obvious to several people your dislike of the Senator

 

TagURit!

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #331)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:17 AM

333. Stating the facts is just stating the facts

 

and I don't dislike former Senator McCaskill. I'm just being honest about who her current employer is.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #333)


Response to Post removed (Reply #336)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 10:27 AM

338. Stating the facts is not demeaning.

 

Former Senator McCaskill is currently a TV pundit who is employed by NBC/Comcast. Those just the facts.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #338)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:47 PM

390. As several have said, your choice of words in referring to Senator McCaskill

 

made your feelings very clear. You were not subtle.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #390)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:51 PM

396. I stated facts

 

Either dispute them or admit you can’t.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #396)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:00 PM

397. Facts...

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #397)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:02 PM

401. Again so what?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #401)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:05 PM

407. It's a fact. Why are you bothered by facts?

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #407)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:08 PM

409. Agreed

 

It’s a fact. No dispute on that. It’s just irrelevant.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #409)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:12 PM

412. Because you don't want to acknowledge that it's been discussed several places on this thread

 

as a response to the irony of the freshman congressperson's complaining on twitter and insulting a Senator because a news program is invited a more electorally savvy and experienced Senator on the air who is talking respectfully and knowledgeably about analysis of Democratic party and where it's headed, when she has something different to say.

And AOC certainly made some assumptions about her attitude "takes her base for granted" based on the language she used when she said nothing of the kind...

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #412)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:16 PM

414. It's irrelevant

 

And no cable news pundit should be immune from criticism for their comments and every person has a right to do so.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #414)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:18 PM

415. It's relevant to this discussion, because it's mentioned several times.

 

And there's that poor strawman again... still can't provide any links to where someone "announced" anyone should be "immune to criticism." You just need people to think that so you don't look as extreme in your reactions to any commentary about how the freshman congressperson who didn't show as effective judgement about what wins Democratic elections outside a deep blue district as the Senator did, and therefore seemed rather resentful in her twitter rant.

I don't think you really want to be proving me right so often. What's your post count now?



Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #415)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:19 PM

417. No it's irrelevant to my argument.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #417)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:21 PM

418. That happens when you invent things to argue with that no one has said.

 

You wind up arguing with yourself...and that strawman.

Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #418)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:22 PM

419. Projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #419)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:27 PM

423. Because you say so?

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #423)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:29 PM

430. More projection.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #430)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:36 PM

436. Because you say so? Lulz.

 

Maybe that strawman will finally agree with you..



Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #436)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:45 PM

444. And even more

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #444)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:53 PM

451. And even more more.

 

Pro-tip... if you want people to think you "don't care" how your statements are percieved, frantically trying to one up someone who tells you how you're percieved with dozens of posts with various logical fallacy responses doesn't really give that claim credibility.



Establishment Democrats edge out AOC-backed candidates on Super Tuesday



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #451)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:56 PM

453. And still more projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #453)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 02:01 PM

459. Because you say so?

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #459)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 02:01 PM

461. More projection

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #461)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 02:07 PM

466. Because it makes you uncomfortable? Lulz.

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #277)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:55 PM

282. A lot of people didn't find her comments all that respectful

 

That's why she had to apologize.

--

On an appearance on MSNBC, former U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill called out “transsexuals,” gay marriage, abortion, gun safety, and people Democrats “look after” as part of the reason the Democratic Party has lost some voters. The pundit from Missouri issued an apology (met with a mixed response on Twitter) saying she was “tired.”

The Advocate

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Response to melman (Reply #282)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:02 AM

283. That's not what AOC or the poster I was responding to was talking about.

 

Go back and read it again...

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #269)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:04 PM

404. +1000.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #218)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:29 PM

226. Are you saying that Obama and Carter are NOT former elected Democratic reps who

 

get paid to appear on TV? Sometimes even CABLE TV?

Really?

(See what I did there?)



But seriously:




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Response to ehrnst (Reply #226)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:44 PM

236. You have proof that they get paid?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #236)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

243. You seem shocked and dismayed... Carter has a booking agent.

 

I showed the link earlier, but here it is again, with his fee:

https://www.speakerbookingagency.com/talent/jimmy-carter

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/01/barack-obama-speaking-fees-economic-racial-justice

I hope that doesn't lower your respect for them to the level you have for McCaskill..




But can you tell me how much Claire McCaskill and other pundits get paid?

The secret pundit decoder works like this: A “contributor” (such as Meghan McCain) is an exclusive network hireling who gets paid for his or her sound bites. He or she earns a fee for each appearance or a flat amount for being on call, like a firefighter, whenever his or her services are required. The amounts can range from around $150 per “hit” to the mid-six figures for a marquee name such as Karl Rove or David Axelrod, both former campaign savants and presidential advisers. An “analyst” (such as CNN’s David Gergen or David Gregory, the former host of “Meet the Press”) is a salaried or contract employee who is expected to analyze the day’s Narrative rather than opine about it like a contributor. A “strategist” is usually a part-timer and a partisan hired for his or her political experience and insight.

Not that these rules really matter. Analysts contribute opinions, contributors analyze and strategists do both.

Then there are “guests,” Punditstan’s temporary-worker class. Guests typically aren’t paid, and often aren’t even identified as guests. Guests are free to peddle their thoughts to whichever network will have them (full disclosure: I’ve been an occasional guest on cable, like just everyone in Washington who has ever had a byline). The ever-itinerant nature of this class of talking heads explains why you’re likely to see vaguely familiar faces such as political scientist Larry Sabato or think-tank wise man Norman J. Ornstein on MSNBC one day and on CNN the next.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/style/2016/06/02/pundits/

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #243)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:58 PM

247. So what?

 

Doesn’t mean he gets paid to be a cable news contributor. If he was he would be introduced as such.
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #247)


Response to ehrnst (Reply #250)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:06 PM

253. But you didn't prove anything

 

And yes McCaskill is introduced as an NBC News contributor, that means she works for NBC. Is Carter introduced as a contributor when he appears on Cable News?
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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #253)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:13 PM

260. You're really embarassed now, aren't you?