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Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:40 AM

I am worried about MN now, horrid ruling by the 8th Circuit court of Appeals


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Reply I am worried about MN now, horrid ruling by the 8th Circuit court of Appeals (Original post)
Celerity Oct 30 OP
Grasswire2 Oct 30 #1
elleng Oct 30 #2
Eyeball_Kid Oct 30 #7
madaboutharry Oct 30 #3
Buckeye_Democrat Oct 30 #21
mr_lebowski Oct 30 #4
pat_k Oct 30 #5
Celerity Oct 30 #8
mr_lebowski Oct 30 #6
Celerity Oct 30 #11
Statistical Oct 30 #24
mr_lebowski Oct 30 #26
Alhena Oct 30 #9
radius777 Oct 30 #10
Rice4VP Oct 30 #12
Thekaspervote Oct 30 #15
Rice4VP Oct 30 #29
ooky Oct 30 #25
TreasonousBastard Oct 30 #13
Celerity Oct 30 #14
TreasonousBastard Oct 30 #17
radius777 Oct 30 #18
Thekaspervote Oct 30 #16
FBaggins Oct 30 #19
TreasonousBastard Oct 30 #22
sl8 Oct 30 #28
malaise Oct 30 #20
AmericanCanuck Oct 30 #23
MineralMan Oct 30 #27

Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:42 AM

1. the timing really stinks. nt

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:46 AM

2. I agree, BAD decision.

Senator Klobuchar seemed pretty confident about MN (generally.)

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Response to elleng (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:57 AM

7. IMO, MN's election won't be decided by the late ballots.

Yes, horrible decision. Made by partisan GOP justices. It had to be. But what the justices are assuming, perhaps falsely, is that all of those votes held up are Democratic votes. They simply aren't. The MN election won't be decided by a few hundred votes. (If there's a Republican advantage in the held-up votes, those votes will likely be a small percentage of the state-wide tally and, if it's a GOP majority in the held up votes, it won't be enough to flip the election.) The Dems have a better grip on the majority. Besides, this latest ruling will bring out MORE Democrats on election day. Call it the Wisconsin effect: when voters believe that they're being given a raw deal by the right wing, they'll react with defiance and they'll become more determined than ever to vote.

My guess is that the state will issue an emergency appeal for a stay. They will argue that the appeals court decision was made in bad faith since MN voters were already voting under a specific set of conditions that, in mid stream, the appeals court denied. The state should argue that the time for making sound and prudent decisions should occur after the election and not before.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:47 AM

3. This is who republicans are.

They hate Democracy.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 05:58 AM

21. Yep.

They can't win a fair fight.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:48 AM

4. That is F***ING BULLS***T man ...

It's literally like the day after the latest day one can safely mail it in and have it arrive by Nov. 3.

F*** THIS NOISE. You can't DO THIS this late in the game, when everyone's been told they just have to mail it by election day by the state and now it's too late? WTAF?

Could this decision be used to make ALL states adhere to this same thing? What's special about MN that isn't true in other states that allow votes to be counted on a similar timeline I guess is what I'm asking?

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:54 AM

5. I think there is a "game plan" . .

See this post.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:58 AM

8. the fact it is a FEDERAL court could be used (via twisted corrupted logic) possibly to

attempt a nation-wide ruling, via the SCOTUS (assuming it ends up there).

I fully admit that is above my pay grade as to the possibility of that occurring.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 12:54 AM

6. Actually per another source, this is an exaggeration of the current situation ...

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 01:04 AM

11. little solace in that article, tbh, especially as the corrupt Federal judiciary foodchain's involved

The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that Minnesota absentee ballots may need to be in by 8 p.m. Election Day in order to be counted. The ruling puts the state’s extended counting period at risk and sets the stage for post-election litigation.

The ruling doesn’t block Minnesota’s seven-day extension for counting absentee ballots — but it does order a lower court to issue a ruling to segregate the ballots so they can be “removed from vote totals in the event a final order is entered” that finds them unlawful. The ruling orders Secretary of State Steve Simon to inform local election officials so they can comply, and sends the case back to the lower court for further proceedings.


“The court’s decision is a tremendous and unnecessary disruption to Minnesota’s election, just days before Election Day. This last-minute change could disenfranchise Minnesotans who were relying on settled rules for the 2020 election — rules that were in place before the August 11 primary and were accepted by all political parties. It is deeply troubling that the people who brought the lawsuit, a conservative legislator and presidential elector, would seek to sabotage the system for political gain,” Simon said. “I won’t let any Minnesota voter be silenced. My mission is now to make sure all voters know that a federal court has suddenly changed the rules, and that their ballot needs to be received by Election Day.”

The decision is likely to create voter confusion, with people who haven’t returned their absentee ballots scrambling to make sure their votes count. People who are worried their absentee ballots may not arrive on time may drop off their ballots at a designated location, vote early at an early voting station, or vote in person on Election Day.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:11 AM

24. In some ways that decision is far worse. If Trump is up don't count late ballots.

If Trump is down = count late ballots because maybe he wins in a hail mary attempt.

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Response to Statistical (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:33 AM

26. Yeah, it presents a host of potential problems ...

But the tweet in the OP is not entirely accurate, that's all I'm saying.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 01:03 AM

9. I can only hope that things like this give us more votes by making our voters angry

and thus more likely to turn out and vote.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 01:04 AM

10. This is changing the rules near the end of the game.

Voters were under the impression that they had time, but now their votes will be discarded. Luckily we seem to have a good lead in MN and Dems hopefully educated voters about this situation. The USPS workers (despite DeJoy) will likely try as hard as they can to get the ballots in ontime.

The right wing truly does not believe in democracy.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 02:59 AM

12. The last update showed 578,805

ballots outstanding. That was on October 23.

They update every Friday it seems so let’s wait until later today to get a better idea of what’s really outstanding


https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/MN.html

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Response to Rice4VP (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:35 AM

15. Let's hope! With 4 more days of mail service b4 8pm on Tuesday that # could diminish a lot

Having said that, let’s hope MN Dems got the message and are now not going to trust their ballot to the mail

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:09 PM

29. After the update today there are 388,535 outstanding

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Response to Rice4VP (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:20 AM

25. Yep. Most Democratic voters have known the court challenges were coming for a long time

and were ready not to fall victim to this Trump plot. I have to believe that the great majority of these will be received in time.

There are some things you just can't procrastinate on and this is one of them.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:30 AM

13. I'm missing something here-- states run elections and the feds normally have no say unless...

they are really out of line.

This decision doesn't say the late votes don't count, but should just be put into a separate pile in case they become invalid in the future. Why they might be invalidated is in some other suit somewhere.

No word on dealing with provisional ballots. Also no word on the point of not counting the ballots for a month-- Electors are not set until December.

No question this is just another Trumpian stalling action, but I really don't see any legal basis for it.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:34 AM

14. what I do not understand is how a federal court can get involved in the first place

when the action in question is up to the individual state

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Response to Celerity (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:40 AM

17. That's my problem-- I think it's involved because there's a state law that bureaucrats have...

ignored. That could give the feds the excuse. Or maybe some constitutional bullshit they made up.

But it's not spelled out anywhere.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:42 AM

18. Federal courts rule on constitutionality,

or so they claim.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 03:37 AM

16. Thx for posting that! A voice of sanity

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 04:38 AM

19. What does it mean that "states run elections"?

That’s the question here.

From the summary of the ruling... it appears that state law set one standard and then the Secretary of State changed it due to the pandemic. Obviously if the legislature took the same action, that wouldn’t be a problem... the question is whether the SoS has the power to do it alone.

It isn’t a question of whether the decision is right or wrong... but whether the person who made the decision had the power to do so.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:07 AM

22. That's what I thought was going on, but it wasn't clear what the original law was.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:46 AM

28. Here's the section of code referenced:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/203B.08



203B.08 MARKING AND RETURN OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS.
Subdivision 1.Marking and return by voter. An eligible voter who receives absentee ballots as provided in this chapter shall mark them in the manner specified in the directions for casting the absentee ballots. The return envelope containing marked ballots may be mailed as provided in the directions for casting the absentee ballots or may be left with the county auditor or municipal clerk who transmitted the absentee ballots to the voter. If delivered in person, the return envelope must be submitted to the county auditor or municipal clerk by 3:00 p.m. on election day.

The voter may designate an agent to deliver in person the sealed absentee ballot return envelope to the county auditor or municipal clerk or to deposit the return envelope in the mail. An agent may deliver or mail the return envelopes of not more than three voters in any election. Any person designated as an agent who tampers with either the return envelope or the voted ballots or does not immediately mail or deliver the return envelope to the county auditor or municipal clerk is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Subd. 1a. [Repealed, 1999 c 132 s 46]

Subd. 2.Address on return envelopes. The county auditor or municipal clerk shall address return envelopes to allow direct mailing of the absentee ballots to the county auditor or municipal clerk who has the responsibility to accept and reject the absentee ballots.

Subd. 3.Procedures on receipt of ballots. When absentee ballots are returned to a county auditor or municipal clerk, that official shall stamp or initial and date the return envelope and place it in a secure location with other return envelopes received by that office. Within five days after receipt, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver to the ballot board all ballots received, except that during the 14 days immediately preceding an election, the county auditor or municipal clerk shall deliver all ballots received to the ballot board within three days. Ballots received on election day either (1) after 3:00 p.m., if delivered in person; or (2) after 8:00 p.m., if delivered by mail or a package delivery service, shall be marked as received late by the county auditor or municipal clerk, and must not be delivered to the ballot board.
Subd. 3a. [Repealed, 1999 c 132 s 46]

Subd. 4.Rules. The secretary of state shall adopt rules establishing procedures to be followed by county auditors and municipal clerks to assure accurate and timely return of absentee ballots. The rules of the secretary of state may authorize procedures and methods of return in addition to those specified in this section.

[...]

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 05:57 AM

20. I just watched Ben Ginberg on CNN

He expects the Supremes to over rule this

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:08 AM

23. This will piss off the voters

and they will vote in person.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:35 AM

27. Don't worry. Minnesotans will vote in time.

Those who have been waiting will either hand-deliver their ballots early or vote on Tuesday. Minnesotans know how to do elections.

All that news will do is further encourage early votes and election day voters.

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