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DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:40 AM Sep 2012

Your car, tracked: the rapid rise of license plate readers

Largely unregulated, cameras now collect millions of travel records every day

Tiburon, a small but wealthy town just northeast of the Golden Gate Bridge, has an unusual distinction: it was one of the first towns in the country to mount automated license plate readers (LPRs) at its city borders—the only two roads going in and out of town. Effectively, that means the cops are keeping an eye on every car coming and going.

A contentious plan? Not in Tiburon, where the city council approved the cameras unanimously back in November 2009.

The scanners can read 60 license plates per second, then match observed plates against a "hot list" of wanted vehicles, stolen cars, or criminal suspects. LPRs have increasingly become a mainstay of law enforcement nationwide; many agencies tout them as a highly effective "force multiplier" for catching bad guys, most notably burglars, car thieves, child molesters, kidnappers, terrorists, and—potentially—undocumented immigrants.

Today, tens of thousands of LPRs are being used by law enforcement agencies all over the country—practically every week, local media around the country report on some LPR expansion. But the system's unchecked and largely unmonitored use raises significant privacy concerns. License plates, dates, times, and locations of all cars seen are kept in law enforcement databases for months or even years at a time. In the worst case, the New York State Police keeps all of its LPR data indefinitely. No universal standard governs how long data can or should be retained.

Not surprisingly, the expanded use of LPRs has drawn the ire of privacy watchdogs. In late July 2012, the American Civil Liberties Union and its affiliates sent requests to local police departments and state agencies across 38 states to request information on how LPRs are used.


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/your-car-tracked-the-rapid-rise-of-license-plate-readers/


A large and detailed article. It's re-posting by Ars is interesting because a couple of days ago in front of our work the locals (using plate readers) stopped a car from Pennsylvania because of unpaid summonses. The car got towed and the driver got arrested. The passenger was LEFT on the side of the road. One of the people from work who lives out in Eastern PA (40 minute drive) took her home that night. Fucking horrible. The town Where I work they LOOK for people on cell phones and have mobile signs announcing they will ticket you for using while driving, and proudly display they have arrested 41 drunk drivers this year. They have a ONE MILE stretch of major highway to patrol and they have THREE Dodge Charger Hemi cruisers.


They protect no one they are simply a money generating machine for the town.

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Your car, tracked: the rapid rise of license plate readers (Original Post) DainBramaged Sep 2012 OP
Thanks to the USA PATRIOT Act, all the states share data. Octafish Sep 2012 #1
Try it with unpaid child support. Same thing. MineralMan Sep 2012 #45
one nation, under surveillance MindPilot Sep 2012 #2
Not the 1%. They built the pens. lonestarnot Sep 2012 #5
We best get used to it since this was bound to happen lunatica Sep 2012 #3
Driving in public, I have no issue with this. May catch people with... Logical Sep 2012 #4
Do you believe we waive all our rights when we get into a motor vechicle, MindPilot Sep 2012 #6
What do you think the difference between a LEO running plates on his own... Lightbulb_on Sep 2012 #7
Speed of processing is one aspect. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #9
Stores keep video of you shopping for years. Big deal. Logical Sep 2012 #11
Yes, it's a BFD. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #15
I think you are paranoid. I can stand on the street and take photos of your house. Going to stop me? Logical Sep 2012 #17
You are not a LEO or an agent of the government. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #22
This is not Europe. And TSA is a joke because it does not make us safer. But no one forces you... Logical Sep 2012 #23
So are license plate scanners. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #25
Not I know you are just joking. Logical Sep 2012 #30
It is attitudes like yours that ensures we will lose all our privacy rights as time goes on. nt Mojorabbit Sep 2012 #40
Also, I can take photos of your house from a public location and not have to answer TO ANYONE! You.. Logical Sep 2012 #24
I'd confront a LEO. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #26
LOL, I get it. You have nothing. n-t Logical Sep 2012 #31
And you're annoying. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #32
Nonsense, they do no such thing. Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #33
LOL, the microcenter store my son works at keeps it for 24 months! Feel stupid now? Logical Sep 2012 #41
LOL, I can make idiotic claims on teh intrawebs with zero proof too! Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #44
Then don't drive a car. You are on a public road. You are driving a car licensed by the... Logical Sep 2012 #10
Then lets just put cameras in your house. MindPilot Sep 2012 #16
Wow, fail! So different. One is my property on private land. One is public land. Get it? I bet.... Logical Sep 2012 #19
I guess probable cause is now out the window. LiberalFighter Sep 2012 #18
Not true at all.... Logical Sep 2012 #20
More surveillance from the folks who brought us the Patriot Act. GoneOffShore Sep 2012 #8
Poor gatsos... hunter Sep 2012 #12
Ah the industrious anarchists, gods bless them.... DainBramaged Sep 2012 #13
Wow, that's a lot of destroyed surveillance cameras. I'm outraged. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #27
Round up the usual suspects... hunter Sep 2012 #39
The Golden Gate Bridge will soon eliminate all toll collectors and use plate readers to bill Gormy Cuss Sep 2012 #14
I think that might create a nice underground market for "smart glass" license plate blankers... hunter Sep 2012 #21
Cool. I have actually day dreamed about something like that. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2012 #28
In tech savvy San Francisco, what are the chances that people will use those? Gormy Cuss Sep 2012 #35
They really just want to get rid of the toll-takers. DollarBillHines Sep 2012 #38
Pretty obvious, isn't it? Gormy Cuss Sep 2012 #42
First they came for the check out cashiers, now the toll takers DainBramaged Sep 2012 #43
As this technology advances, more and more roads will have "smart tolls". Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #29
Yeah what happens when that "crime" MindPilot Sep 2012 #34
The technology can actually prevent this kind of abuse. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #36
I need that explained. MindPilot Sep 2012 #37

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
1. Thanks to the USA PATRIOT Act, all the states share data.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:57 AM
Sep 2012

Tried getting a new driver's license with an unpaid ticket from 1986 the other day...

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
45. Try it with unpaid child support. Same thing.
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 03:28 PM
Sep 2012

It's tough to be a scofflaw these days. And it's not going to get any easier, either.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
2. one nation, under surveillance
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:12 PM
Sep 2012

Judges--not matter how much they want to--can't put the entire population in prison, so the next best thing is that we are all effectively under house arrest.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
3. We best get used to it since this was bound to happen
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sep 2012

I bet this is why public crime is down in the US rather than up because of the economy. It's the only thing that makes sense.

It really doesn't matter whether we're for it or against it. It's a fact of modern life now.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
4. Driving in public, I have no issue with this. May catch people with...
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:22 PM
Sep 2012

Warrants or find missing cars, people, etc.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
6. Do you believe we waive all our rights when we get into a motor vechicle,
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:41 PM
Sep 2012

or just most of them?

I can't believe anyone thinks this level of surveillance is OK, because it *might* catch someone with a warrant or find a stolen car.

 

Lightbulb_on

(315 posts)
7. What do you think the difference between a LEO running plates on his own...
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:47 PM
Sep 2012

... and a camera doing it?

Speed of processing?

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
9. Speed of processing is one aspect.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:52 PM
Sep 2012

Keeping the records is another and most worrying.

Bet you're a fan of the TSA gropers as well.

Anything to be safe?

You're forgetting your Ben Franklin epigram about security and freedom.

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
15. Yes, it's a BFD.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:11 PM
Sep 2012

Stores neither need nor should have those kinds of records.

And the cops need more impediments to surveillance rather than fewer. Take a look at "The Lives of Others" for an insight into what it's like to live in a society that is constantly under watch.

As I said, I'm sure you're a big fan of the TSA.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
17. I think you are paranoid. I can stand on the street and take photos of your house. Going to stop me?
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:15 PM
Sep 2012

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
22. You are not a LEO or an agent of the government.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:26 PM
Sep 2012

And if you were and I saw you taking pictures, I'd ask you why you were and under what authority you were taking those pictures.

And I'd expect a really good answer or a look at the warrant.

In Europe it is considered an invasion of privacy to take pictures of strangers in the street. I'm very careful doing street photography when I'm there, always making sure that my subject is aware of what I'm doing.

And you didn't answer my earlier implied question: Are you a big fan of the TSA gropers?

And obviously you don't subscribe to what Benjamin Franklin said about freedom and security: Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
23. This is not Europe. And TSA is a joke because it does not make us safer. But no one forces you...
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:37 PM
Sep 2012

to fly. And if you do you are scanned. Don't like it, do not fly.

I don't like being checked at NFL stadiums either but it is not illegal.

You are confusing things that annoy you with illegal things.

I am against DUI checkpoints. Because they are intrusive.




 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
24. Also, I can take photos of your house from a public location and not have to answer TO ANYONE! You..
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:40 PM
Sep 2012

need to read more about freedom.

You sound like you would confront law abiding citizens for no legal reason. Like Zimmerman did.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
10. Then don't drive a car. You are on a public road. You are driving a car licensed by the...
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 01:12 PM
Sep 2012

state. You license plate is visible to anyone while you drive.

They are not placing a GPS on your car, which I would NOT be OK with.

They are running your license plate. Nothing else.

If you have no warrants for your arrest then you are OK.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
16. Then lets just put cameras in your house.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:11 PM
Sep 2012

If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

There is little worse than an authoritarian pretending to be a liberal .

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
19. Wow, fail! So different. One is my property on private land. One is public land. Get it? I bet....
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:17 PM
Sep 2012

I know about 1000x more than you about civil liberties. And laws.

Being paranoid does not = logic.

I assume you are against people taping cops also? Interferes with the cops rights?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
20. Not true at all....
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:19 PM
Sep 2012

they cannot stop you for no reason. Even though many asshole cops do.

The license plate scanner is not intrusive. Passive.

GoneOffShore

(17,336 posts)
8. More surveillance from the folks who brought us the Patriot Act.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 12:51 PM
Sep 2012

Perhaps these need to be treated in the same fashion that speed cameras are treated in England.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
14. The Golden Gate Bridge will soon eliminate all toll collectors and use plate readers to bill
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:00 PM
Sep 2012

the owners of any cars without a preloaded payment of some sort and they are promoting it like it's a great step forward to have databases logging every vehicle crossing the bridge.

70% of crossers currently are using FasTrak but that's not good enough so they've come up with other ways to pay, all shifting the cost to drivers who have to make an online transaction or stop at a pay station separate from the bridge as a penalty for not signing up for FasTrak.

Besides FasTrak and invoices, less-frequent bridge users are encouraged to use two "pay-by-plate" options. They can set up a license plate account, which deducts the toll after they cross the bridge and doesn't require a prepaid balance. Or, a one-time payment can be made before or after crossing the bridge. Both options can be paid online or with cash or credit card at cash payment locations to be established in retail stores around the Bay Area.


This quote from the spokesperson really ticked me off:
"We don't want to be in the business of issuing toll invoices," Currie said. "It's a great backup for the customer, and that's how we see it, but we don't want people to get lazy and rely on it."

Characterizing people who don't comply with their Rube Goldberg system as LAZY?

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/New-ways-to-pay-3875988.php

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
28. Cool. I have actually day dreamed about something like that.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:51 PM
Sep 2012

And a switchable ultra-high frequency sound emitter to keep drug dogs away.

DollarBillHines

(1,922 posts)
38. They really just want to get rid of the toll-takers.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 05:53 PM
Sep 2012

They are paid around $50K/yr.

I think this whole thing will be pretty chaotic.

Just another reason for me to not go south of the bridge.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
42. Pretty obvious, isn't it?
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:26 AM
Sep 2012

I cross the GG bridge less than five times a year and think this sucks from a privacy aspect.

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
43. First they came for the check out cashiers, now the toll takers
Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:32 AM
Sep 2012

Should they retrain as bathroom attendants?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
29. As this technology advances, more and more roads will have "smart tolls".
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 02:52 PM
Sep 2012

It makes sense that those who use roads the most should contribute the most towards their cost. And to do this, the system needs to know which vehicle is where, at what time. So we might as well get used to this. I think the advantages outweigh any privacy issues. Car theft will become almost impossible, and any crime requiring a vehicle will become very difficult to pull off.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
34. Yeah what happens when that "crime"
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:16 PM
Sep 2012

is a black woman heading for the polls?

There is a huge potential for abuse here, and the lawmakers need to pay a lot more attention to make the laws--especially those which protect individual rights--keep pace with technology.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
36. The technology can actually prevent this kind of abuse.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:43 PM
Sep 2012

The cop car locations will also be tracked and recorded. It will be harder for cops to intimidate people and/or set them up.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
37. I need that explained.
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 04:52 PM
Sep 2012

Sorry, but I fail to see the connection since most police departments have been able to keep track of their cars for several decades.

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