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Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:26 AM

📍BREAKING--First ever reinfection death from #COVID19 has now been scientifically confirmed.



Tweet text: Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
📍BREAKING—First ever reinfection death from #COVID19 has now been scientifically confirmed. An 89-year old woman infected 2 months ago; recovered. New reinfection by different strain (🧬verified), then led to death.

➡️ Total now up to 23 reinfections. https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/10/dutch-researchers-report-first-death-from-covid-19-reinfection/
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📍BREAKING—First ever reinfection death from #COVID19 has now been scientifically confirmed. An 89-year old woman infected 2 months ago; recovered. New reinfection by different strain (🧬verified), then led to death.

➡️ Total now up to 23 reinfections. bnonews.com/index.php/2020…
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Dutch researchers report first death from COVID-19 reinfection - BNO News
An elderly woman in the Netherlands has died after getting COVID-19 a second time, researchers reported on Monday. It’s the first time a death has been reported from reinfection with coronavirus. The …
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/10/dutch-researchers-report-first-death-from-covid-19-reinfection/

2) “An elderly woman in the Netherlands has died after getting COVID-19 a second time, researchers reported on Monday. It’s the first time a death has been reported from reinfection with coronavirus. The researchers said the woman arrived at ER earlier this year...”

3) “while suffering from a fever and severe cough. She tested positive for coronavirus and remained hospitalized for 5 days, after which her symptoms subsided completely, except for persisting fatigue.
Nearly 2 months later, she developed a fever, cough, and shortness of breath”

4) “When she was admitted to hospital, her oxygen saturation was 90 percent with a respiratory rate of 40 breaths per minute. She again tested positive for coronavirus while tests for antibodies were negative at days 4 and 5.”

5) ““At day 8, the condition of the patient deteriorated. She died two weeks later,”
To team had access to test samples from both infections and confirmed that the genetic makeup of each virus was different to a degree which cannot be explained through in-vivo evolution.”

6) 📌This supports the finding that the woman was suffering from a reinfection with coronavirus.

📌 7) Troubling—official @BNODesk reinfection tracker of confirmed REINFECTIONS (scientifically documented by RNA 🧬 comparisons) now has recorded 23 reinfections. Of 17 w/ known clinical status, 📌9 of 17 (53%) had a worse 2nd infection than first. #COVID19 bnonews.com/index.php/2020…
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COVID-19 reinfection tracker - BNO News
The table below shows confirmed cases of COVID-19 reinfection. The first confirmed case of reinfection was reported in Hong Kong on August 24, and 14 others were reported over the next few weeks. Earl…
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/

8) Meanwhile, the earlier 2nd case of reinfection from Reno Nevada now finally Lancet published. Study confirms first case of #COVID19 reinfection in the USA, indicating exposure to the virus may not translate to total immunity. thelancet.com/journals/lanin…
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Genomic evidence for reinfection with SARS-CoV-2: a case study
Genetic discordance of the two SARS-CoV-2 specimens was greater than could be accounted for by short-term in vivo evolution. These findings suggest that the patient was infected by SARS-CoV-2 on two s…
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30764-7/fulltext?utm_content=142230937&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292

9) The authors conclude: “These findings suggest that the patient was infected by SARS-CoV-2 on two separate occasions by a genetically distinct virus. Thus, previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2 might not guarantee total immunity in all cases.”

10) “All individuals, whether previously diagnosed with COVID-19 or not, should take identical precautions to avoid infection with SARS-CoV-2” ...

...[cough] Trump [cough].

11) Also, vaccine implication being debated. One author says reinfection could affect vaccine, another immunologist @VirusesImmunity says no. In fact, vaccine would protect better than even an actual prior #COVID19 infection would.

• • •

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Reply 📍BREAKING--First ever reinfection death from #COVID19 has now been scientifically confirmed. (Original post)
Nevilledog Oct 13 OP
crimycarny Oct 13 #1
Blue_true Oct 13 #23
crimycarny Oct 14 #28
Blue_true Oct 14 #41
crimycarny Oct 14 #42
Blue_true Oct 14 #43
crimycarny Oct 14 #45
Blue_true Oct 14 #46
questionseverything Oct 13 #2
qazplm135 Oct 13 #3
Hugin Oct 13 #5
qazplm135 Oct 13 #7
Hugin Oct 13 #11
questionseverything Oct 13 #8
Loki Liesmith Oct 13 #15
questionseverything Oct 13 #16
Blue_true Oct 13 #24
Hugin Oct 13 #4
Blue_true Oct 13 #25
Hugin Oct 14 #29
Blue_true Oct 14 #40
Celerity Oct 14 #31
Hugin Oct 14 #34
Celerity Oct 14 #39
LisaL Oct 14 #37
Piasladic Oct 13 #6
Grammy23 Oct 13 #9
moondust Oct 13 #10
Fiendish Thingy Oct 13 #12
Hugin Oct 13 #13
W_HAMILTON Oct 13 #14
judeling Oct 13 #17
BlackOpz Oct 13 #19
McCamy Taylor Oct 13 #18
wnylib Oct 13 #20
Blue_true Oct 13 #26
ecstatic Oct 13 #21
Blue_true Oct 13 #27
Blue_true Oct 13 #22
Hugin Oct 14 #30
Silent3 Oct 14 #32
Hugin Oct 14 #38
Hortensis Oct 14 #33
Saboburns Oct 14 #35
LisaL Oct 14 #36
anamnua Oct 14 #44

Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:30 AM

1. All the more reason for antivirals

Not as sensitive to mutations.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:13 PM

23. Can you explain more? Thanks. nt

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 12:25 AM

28. Antivirals stop a virus from replicating in the body

In a nutshell, antivirals work by interrupting the virus replication process thus not allowing it continue to grow and overwhelm your own body’s immune system. Antivirals can also often be used post-exposure to prevent the virus from infecting your body if taken right after exposure.

We now have “post exposure” antivirals for HIV which can prevent infection in someone exposed to HIV but not yet infected.

We have flu antivirals like Tamiflu and Xofluza which can work against both influenza A and B, and seem to work each year despite the flu mutating every year. Tamiflu has been on the market for 20 years and is still effective at stopping the flu virus—whatever type or strain. Flu antivirals are especially important in those—like seniors—who may not generate a strong enough immune response to a flu vaccine.

In our family we consider Tamiflu almost a miracle drug. Our experience has been fever gone in 24 hours and all symptoms gone (fatigue, etc) 48-72 hours after starting Tamiflu. An antiviral like Tamiflu will also greatly reduce the severity of symptoms because the viral load isn’t allowed to grow higher and higher as the replication process has been halted.

SO...if a good antiviral can be developed for coronavirus it should be able to reduce severity of symptoms, shorten the length of time a person is symptomatic, and even prevent spread because it can be taken as a precaution if you’ve been exposed. AND..it should remain effective despite mutations because the replication process of a virus usually remains relatively stable.

Sorry for going on so long...I just think the advances in antivirals are going to be a big weapon against coronavirus mutations.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 07:13 PM

41. One of the stated downside to a single anti-viral is that it is a one-trick pony,

once a virus mutates, the anti-viral is no longer effective. One way that researcher have gotten past that is to produce a cocktail that has several anti-virals in it.

You do make a good point about Tamiflu, it is used year in and year out against the flu, even as the flu mutates year after year.

For SARS-COV-2, it seems that an effective anti-viral would be one that directly attacks the spikes of that virus, make the spikes fall off, for example, regardless of the mutation of the virus. Without the spikes producing the ACE2 receptor lock-picking spike protein, my uneducated sense would be that the SARS-COV-2 virus would be rendered harmless, for a duration if it can somehow re-grow the spikes, for good if it is unable to regrow spikes once they have been ripped off of it by an anti-viral.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #41)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 07:25 PM

42. It was the spike or stem...??

My son was telling me that they found one part of SARS-COV-2 that relatively unchanged despite mutations. I admit I was only half-listening (making dinner) so can’t remember.

There are a lot of promising COVID antivirals in clinical trials, including an antiviral currently used on cats for a fatal (to cats) coronavirus. Also Gilead’s inhaled version of Remdesivir.

I find the science fascinating but it’s frustrating and painful waiting for the breakthrough.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 07:33 PM

43. The spike is where the critical spike protein is produced.

That protein opens a pathway into the cell guarding ACE2 receptors, allowing the SARS-COV-2 to infect cells. So, in my uneducated mind on such things, if I had to attack a part of the virus, I would formulate something that consistently attacked the spikes and demolished them, regardless of the mutation.

I did read that there was one part of that virus that was unchanged mutation to mutation, but I don’t remember the details.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #43)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 07:47 PM

45. You sparked me to look up status of favipiravir

Lots of clinical trials going on with the Japanese antiviral favipiravir, including a human trial at Stanford. I can’t find any info on the human trials, but if you’re a hamster there’s potentially good news.

https://www.firstpost.com/health/high-doses-of-favipiravir-works-to-curb-covid-19-in-hamsters-hcq-ineffective-finds-new-study-8909041.html


Let’s hope the human trials are promising. I don’t like the fact that it took very high doses for favipiravir to be effective in hamsters. But maybe in humans it will be different (or high doses won’t be harmful if required).

Come on science!!!

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #45)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 07:53 PM

46. For some reason, SARS-COV-2 seem to be a tough out. That may explain the high dose needed.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any hamster in my family tree, which in most cases would be a good thing.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:33 AM

2. Terrible news

If every strain can infect separately this is our new normal

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:36 AM

3. no

not with a vaccine. It can be more effective against multiple strains.

We will get past this, but it's not going to be next week or "before the election," and of course it's going to be a lot harder/longer if Trump is re-elected.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:38 AM

5. You forgot more expensive... If Trump is re-elected.

I'm not sure about the effectiveness on multiple strains thing.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:03 AM

11. Very interesting.

So, if I'm reading what was said correctly. If a vaccine for a genetically simple virus, such as COVID appears to be, were developed targeting multiple factors within it's structure it would be effective longer because any mutations over time would change it less. Compared to a more genetically complex virus such as the flu.

Sure, that seems reasonable.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:46 AM

8. "Can be".....but we don't know

If it takes multiple vaccines for multiple strains we are in uncharted territory

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:42 AM

15. Not so uncharted

There are many flu vaccines. We get a new one each year.
Epidemiologists make an educated guess which flu strains (new or old) will be prevalent in the coming season and a vaccine is developed for those strains.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:49 AM

16. I believe we already have six mutations documented

If everyone of those change every year it will definitely complicate things


On the other hand I hope you’re more optimistic view is correct

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:40 PM

24. The article that was linked stated that vaccines under development for SARS-COV-2

have multiple sites on them that can induce an immune response.

Time will tell. There is just so much that isn’t well understood about SARS-COV-2. I believe that we will get the disciplined effort to figure out the unknown only if Joe Biden becomes our President. Trump is far to incompetent and corrupt to let a process which he doesn’t have direct control over happen to the extent that vast progress is made against SARS-COV-2.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:37 AM

4. I had read somewhere that the second infection can be much worse...

As this case would indicate.

So much for that 'herd immunity' horseshit.

And no, I don't have any links handy. (For all of the Walruses out there)

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Response to Hugin (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

25. In at least two cases, it has been, the 89 year old and a 25 year who I believe is still alive.

I wonder whether some of the cases where people seemed cured, but fell ill a couple weeks or more and ended up dying from COVID19 were not cases of reinfection. There has been a very large number of such events.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 02:41 AM

29. It really could be.

So much is not known.

Are the so-called long haulers a reinfection scenario?

Also, what kind of sanitizing is required in a victim's living space to prevent eventual re-infection? That's a biggy for me. Even with the flu and other more common illnesses my SO throws away toothbrushes, washes sheets & towels, sanitizes dishes, laundry, and etc. Very thorough, but, is rarely sick and is never sick for very long.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 06:52 PM

40. With novel viruses, experts are learning as they go, that is what makes them so difficult.

The only thing that is certain is that the USA handled SARS-COV-2 poorly as a nation, the blame for that rests entirely with Donald Trump. It still completely baffles me that an idiot like him can be made leader of this nation,

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Response to Hugin (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 03:45 AM

31. Sealion, not walrus

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Response to Celerity (Reply #31)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 08:37 AM

34. Them, too.

I knew it was something like that!

Thanks.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #34)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 11:03 AM

39. Yes, those types are super annoying trolls

Cheers

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Response to Hugin (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 08:40 AM

37. Not a good sign for a vaccine either.

Yikes.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:40 AM

6. Terrible News, but

on the bright side, there's still hope about the orange menace... Let's let him kiss all those guys and beautiful women. Must be an exotic strain out there that can take care of him.

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Response to Piasladic (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 12:52 AM

9. Just what I was thinking.


He thinks he has a magical shield protecting him. He’d better think about what happens if he encounters a different strain of the corona virus, especially if he gallavanting all over the country to different rallies. He might meet up with one with his name on it.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:09 AM

12. I think I'll wait to see what established, reputable news outlets say

Before considering this as a confirmed fact.

BNO is a new, small (3 person) news outlet, with no record or reputation. For all we know, it’s just a click bait factory.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:15 AM

13. The Lancet has been tracking re-infections...

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:22 AM

14. That's worrisome...

I got COVID back in July and, even though I knew it was unlikely that I would have lifetime immunity from catching it again, I at least thought that (1) I would have a longer period of temporary immunity and (2) I figured that if I got it again, it would be even milder, not worse.

Damn...

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 01:59 AM

17. Every case is different

you probably do have a longer immunity then you are thinking.
What we are finding out is that the immunity appears to be temporary, but if that means months or years on average we just don't know. Do not get side tracked on the genetic differences, that is more how they are identifying that these are true reinfections and not relapses.

What is likely to happen is that once a vaccine is widely available the induced herd immunity will be enough so that a regular vaccine cycle will be enough. But this will be around for a long long time. But we will just deal with isolated small outbreaks.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 03:16 AM

19. On My 2nd Infection - (1st Dec 2019)

First infection was VERY uncomfortable. painful with double pneumonia - This 2nd version is MUCH milder and mostly loss of taste/smell with some aches & fatigue. I'm assuming its because I have a prev infection. Would suck if its just a milder variant with worse I could catch in the future.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 02:50 AM

18. RNA viruses mutate

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6107253/

RNA viruses are perhaps the most intriguing biological entities in which to study mutation rates. They encode their replication machinery, and thus their mutation rates can be optimized for their fitness (in comparison to small DNA viruses that use the polymerases of their host cells). Their inherently high mutation rates yield offspring that differ by 1–2 mutations each from their parent [9], producing a mutant cloud of descendants that complicates our conception of a genotype’s fitness. Their ability to rapidly change their genome underlies their ability to emerge in novel hosts, escape vaccine-induced immunity, and evolve to circumvent disease resistance engineered or bred into our crops

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 10:42 PM

20. I'm thinking of other viral infections.

I grew up before there were vaccines for measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Parents wanted their children to get these diseases in early childhood in order to avoid complications that could develop if they were contracted later in life. Example: If a pregnant woman got rubella (one type of measles) it could cause harm to the fetus.

Usually, there was immunity after having these diseases. But, if someone had a mild case of any of them, they could get it again. Also, getting one type of measles did not make you immune to another type of measles. And chicken pox only goes dormant. You never get rid of it completely, which is why people who had chicken pox as a child could get shingles as an adult if the virus reactivates. Different types of viruses, of course, from SARS-COV 2.

The SARS-COV-2 virus behavior is looking more like the flu or the common cold in how it can infect people - only with much worse symptoms and consequences. Having a really bad cold does not mean that when you get another one, it will be mild. Same with the flu. You can get either a mild or serious case depending on both the strain of flu or cold and your general health when you get infected. And you cannot develop immunity to colds or flu. They come back again and again. Given how deadly SARS-COV-2 can be, this is scary.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:52 PM

26. Talk about scary. Let SARS-COV-2 mutate with the MERS Coronavirus.

That would be the things of nightmares, IMO.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 10:50 PM

21. We've been hearing about reinfections for months

And we've been hearing it directly from doctors with firsthand experience from their patients.

People just don't want to believe or openly acknowledge it for various reasons.

I will never forgive trump for systematically gutting all of our country's defenses over the past 2 years, which allowed this virus to proliferate and take hold all over the world.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #21)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:54 PM

27. I truly believe that there may have been lots of reinfection deaths also. nt

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Tue Oct 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

22. I wonder whether some of the cases where people tested positive,

were hospitalized for a few days, discharged, went home feeling fine and died from COVID19 two-three weeks later were reinfection, with the second killing the people? The 25 year old in Nevada was much sicker the second time around.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 03:01 AM

30. Early on I remember reading a theory that this was possibly a dual...

Pandemic with virus-1 coming from the east and virus-2 from the west.

It was thought that virus-1 had a higher mortality rate, but, was less contagious than virus-2.

With the expansion and improvement of testing this theory was discounted. However, maybe it was an effect of re-infection instead.

In some ways this is where improved and widely available rapid testing hides some nuances of what's going on. A patient is given a test and yep or nope they have COVID. At that point, the patient is either treated or discharged. Which is always a good thing! Without additional testing information that could be important to a wider understanding of the virus is lost and longer term concerns and remedies are lost along with that deeper understanding.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 04:00 AM

32. On the one hand that sounds scary, on the other hand, since it took so long...

...and so many millions of cases before one case of reinfection and death was confirmed, that could mean that such an occurrence, while possible, is not very common and it hopefully won't be a big factor in getting the pandemic under control.

It's definitely good reason, however, not to prance around like you're immune after having been infected once (not that I have anyone specific in mind when I say that, of course).

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 08:41 AM

38. Perish the thought... Who would do such a reckless thing!

They'd have to be completely and utterly barking mad!

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 04:12 AM

33. So far, quick reinfection seems to be rare,

as Silent3 says. That’s more established so far than otherwise.

The big question is how long immunity will typically last. Before we have a fairly solid answer to that, we will hopefully have started Widespread vaccinations.

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Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 08:38 AM

35. China reported re-infection cases back in April.

This is not the first case.

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 14, 2020, 08:39 AM

36. This is first reinfection death.

The person died from second infection.

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