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Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:31 AM

So, Trump is OK with mail in votes if the voter must request their absentee ballot

I do NOT accept Trump's evidence free assertion that all other scenarios for mail in voting are rife for massive voter fraud, e.g. States automatically sending out requests for absentee ballots or those actual ballots themselves. To the contrary, all evidence proves the exact opposite. However, to be better prepared to prevent Trump from declaring victory on Election Day based on any minority tally of same day votes only, we should be prepared with some facts that are indisputable.

Specifically, we should be ready to cite the names of every state where voters must initiate a request for an absentee ballot prior to one being sent to them. By definition Trump, in his own words, has conceded that there is no new potential for "fraud" in counting those votes, according to state election laws, in the days that follow Election Day, before declaring a winner in those states. Further, we should be quick to identify those states that have conducted exclusively mail in vote elections for years, where Republicans have never before raised any objections to how those elections function (I think Oregon, Utah, and Colorado fall within this group, but I may be wrong).

I am asking DUers to help compile a "data base". I know that in my own State on New York, a voter must initiate the absentee ballot process, nothing is automatically sent out to us. So, for example, Trump should have no trouble allowing New York State to count absentee ballots before declaring a winner here. Of course we all know that A) Trump has no chance of winning New York and B) Trump has already called how long it takes New York to declare a winner in a tight race "unacceptable". But the point isn't to win Trump over with logic (Ha!) The point is to arm our talking heads, pundits, and journalists in general with strong arguments to counter any attempt by Trump to declare victory based on fragmentary returns,

Trump is on record saying that mail in voting in states like Florida is "fine". When Trump is pushed to explain his claim that mail in voter fraud will be "massive" he always describes a delusional scenario of millions of ballots being pushed out by states to voters who never even requested them. Yes Trump is incoherent on this issue, like with most everything else, but on Election Night we should know which States even qualify for Trump's delusions.

I've heard it reported that the only potential "swing State" that will send out unsolicited ballots is Nevada, but I don't know if that is accurate. I've heard New Jersey mentioned as a state that either sends out unsolicited ballots or requests for same also, with it being noted that no sane political observer thinks that Trump has a ghost of a chance to win New Jersey. My expectation is that, come Election Night, even if Trump tries to "throw out" the results from States that distributed unsolicited Ballot requests or ballots to voters, he would clearly lose the electoral college to Biden once all votes are countered in all of the other States if the votes of solidly blue and red states get logically apportioned . If so, WE SHOULD BE READY TO POINT THAT OUT.

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Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply So, Trump is OK with mail in votes if the voter must request their absentee ballot (Original post)
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2020 OP
cyclonefence Oct 2020 #1
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2020 #2
drray23 Oct 2020 #3
BadgerKid Oct 2020 #4
onenote Oct 2020 #5
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2020 #6
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2020 #10
onenote Oct 2020 #13
Laurelin Oct 2020 #7
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #8
Tom Rinaldo Oct 2020 #9
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #12
brooklynite Oct 2020 #11

Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

1. In Pa you must request a mail-in ballot n/t

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Response to cyclonefence (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:38 AM

2. This is an incredibly important example! n/t

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:38 AM

3. In Virginia you must request the absentee ballot.nt.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:43 AM

4. Also look at correlating with USPS dismantlements.

Probably canít look at historical absentee ballot trends. I think you could argue either way in the event of a large spike or drop as compared to previous elections. Would be glad to be wrong.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

5. Here:

Colorado, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Hawaii have previously sent all registered voters mail-in ballots. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, California, Nevada, New Jersey, Vermont, and Washington, D.C. have introduced the same procedure for the 2020 vote

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Response to onenote (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 11:57 AM

6. Thank you...

Of those, Trump could only semi-plausibly argue that the final count in Nevada could end up going either way. Colorado not only is almost certainly out of Trump's reach but it has voted this way for multiple cycles already.

I'm willing, for the sake of argument, to give Trump Utah when all is said and counted, even though he is weaker there than a Republican presidential candidate should be. The remaining states you list are solidly for Biden.

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Response to onenote (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:30 PM

10. Does that mean all the other states do not send out ballots or applications

without a specific request, or is your list partial?

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:34 PM

13. My understanding is that these are the states that send ballots to all registered voters

As far as I know, the other states all either require someone to request a ballot, although some of them may automatically send a form to every voter that they can use to request a ballot.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:10 PM

7. Good

I'm so glad he's okay with my vote for Biden. It's going to FedEx on Monday.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:12 PM

8. He has been all along.

But when those ballots must arrive to be counted is a separate issue - pretty sure he believes they need to be received by election day.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:29 PM

9. He has also said that he wants a winner known on Election Day

Even if only votes received by Election Day got counted, that counting can take a long time, days or even a week or more, to complete in states that do not begin processing their votes until Election Day. Trump may try to use that window to push for early results to be certified in States where he is leading. He has railed against States where counting itself when on for days, implying that it implied "fraud" was involved.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:31 PM

12. Most states process them in advance.

Most of the first vote totals announced are absentee/early voting. They are, for the most part, scanned in - just waiting for the magic moment at which it is legal to press the tally button.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2020, 04:31 PM

11. Let me explain it in Trump's terms...

If you allow States to send ballots to EVERYONE (instead of having patriotic Americans request them), there will be millions send to ISIS Mexicans in China.

Does that clear things up?

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