I, for one, have had more than enough of this "religious liberty" nonsense. To be sure, you have

[Atticus]

the right to believe or not believe as you choose. But, damn it, do not ask me to bow to your vision of a supreme being.

You are free to believe that homosexuality is a sinful choice, men were ordained to rule over women or that sex outside of a hetero marriage should be a "stonable" offense, but don't you dare require that others respect that ignorance and adjust their behavior to comply with it.

I wish I could credit whoever coined this example, but I cannot: "Having a religion is sort of like having a penis---it's fine to have one and it's OK to be proud of it, but waving it in people's faces is likely to start a fight."

I'll close with a favorite bumpersticker: "Stop using God as your excuse for being an asshole!"

Can I get an "AMEN"?

[Alliepoo]

1. Amen, Brother Atticus!!

[Turin_C3PO]

2. Amen!

My thoughts exactly.

[dlk]

3. Our country was founded on freedom from state-sponsored religion

The Constitution has been twisted for political purposes.

[Retrograde]

7. Not really - some states had established churches

well after the Constitution was ratified. Connecticut had an established church until 1818. But in the modern world no one religion should have the right or power to impose its beliefs on others.

[dlk]

10. Some states may have had established churches but the Constitution is pretty clear

People don’t mind a state-sponsored religions, as long as it’s theirs. When it’s something different, then it’s another story entirely.

[keithbvadu2]

31. government sanction of a religion...

Madison also made a point that any believer of any religion should understand: that the government sanction of a religion was, in essence, a threat to religion. "Who does not see," he wrote, "that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" Madison was writing from his memory of Baptist ministers being arrested in his native Virginia.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/?no-ist=

[paleotn]

60. The founders in a nutshell

They lived through or were not many generations away from religious conflicts we cannot imagine. They knew all about the cancer of state sponsored religion.

[Ohiogal]

4. Amen!

You are fully within your rights to worship however you please .... go to whatever church you want ..... believe whatever you choose ....

But don’t force everyone else to live according to your beliefs.

What don’t they get about this?

[Tommymac]

19. Evangelicals believe it is their sacred duty to convert everyone to their way of thought.

It is a sin not to try.

It's in their dogma.

Small town 'Revivals' are legion. If you are a urban dweller, and you have never been to one, it has to be experienced to understand the pull for bored small town residents. They are a traveling circus, a pot luck dinner, music and entertainment, spiritual extravaganza, and oh yeah...a money maker for the grifters who speak and run most of them.

Not all are bad - but too many are. They prey on boredom and ignorance, and honest folks naivetes.

[Missn-Hitch]

53. Your post reminded me of Season 1 True Detective.

I have been and never will return. Your description is spot on.

[misanthrope]

67. This one

[robbob]

73. What a first season!

My respect for Mathew and Woody went right through the roof. Anyone who thinks Woody is only good at light, goofy roles needs to see the scene in the prison cell. (Shudder)

To bad seasons 2&3 couldn’t really catch that lightning in a bottle again...

[Missn-Hitch]

87. LOL!! That's the one. Had me rolling because I have lived it.

[SergeStorms]

94. Now I'm going to have to watch that again.

That was one magnificent mini-series. I have the boxed set of DVDs and I'm going to have to watch that again very soon. Set in the bayous and rural coastal areas of Louisiana, it lent a very surreal and menacing air to the entire series. McConaughey and Harrelson were magnificent together. I recommended it to my son-in-law, and he loved it, and he hates everything I recommend.

Thanks for posting that. Now to go dig out the DVDs.

[Mariana]

57. According to the Bible, Jesus expressly ordered his followers

to convert everyone to their way of thought. The Evangelicals take that seriously.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20 NIV

This instruction does not allow for any exceptions to be made. Jesus does not go on to say, "...unless they don't want to be my disciples, in which case go and leave them in peace."

[Tommymac]

59. Well, looks like we need to Repeal that one.

I knew there was a reason I'm not a christian. Or follow any organized religion.

I don't take kindly to blindly following a dictator or a dogma, secular or heavenly.

I got a brain, I read the manual, and I learned how to use it.

Thanks god, but no thanks.

[SergeStorms]

95. That's very presumptuous...

of jesus now, isn't it. Of course the personage of jesus was based on many earlier permutations of holy men, each embellished as their myth grew. But let's not argue religion. You either choose to believe it, or not. It's not difficult to opine on which side of the debate I reside.

[Mariana]

96. The Evangelicals take that instruction seriously, as written.

What I believe or don't believe is irrelevant, in the context of this discussion.

[SergeStorms]

101. I didn't say that was presumptuous of you.

In this country we can all believe as we wish, except if many evangelicals are elected to our government. Then all bets are off.

[xxqqqzme]

81. Tent or Camp

meetings, where I grew up, were set up in the fields after harvest. My paternal grandmother attended everyone she heard about. For weeks after attending one, the 'spirit' would guide her to practice 'laying on of hands'. I had a small broken surface capillary on my cheekbone that she insisted she could heal. She would begin by speaking 'in tongues' and guiding her trembling hand to my face. I considered the entire ritual strange but my father said it made his mother feel better.

[not_the_one]

86. Church three times a week was a given, until the (usually tent) revival set up on the

outskirts of town, then it was nightly.

I wish I could say I had fond memories of that time in my life... Unfortunately that is not the case.

Life revolved around the church and controlled the family dynamics. But that is religion in a nutshell.

[misanthrope]

99. That was akin to what I experienced

Not the tent revivals but my Southern Baptist family went to Sunday School, then the worship services, then we would leave for lunch and have to be back in time for the Sunday evening version of both.

On Wednesday evening, we were back again. No classroom attendance, just the worship service in the main sanctuary then downstairs to the fellowship hall for dinner.

My father was a deacon, my mother taught teen groups. My maternal grandmother was a church secretary, her husband was in the choir. My mother's brother became an evangelist preacher after being a pretty shady and trouble-prone teen. My paternal grandfather was a Gideon, the folks who put Bibles in hotel rooms.

The experience made me keenly aware of the vast discrepancies between the dictates of the figure adherents worshipped and those followers' own behavior in action and words. I find the entire phenomenon depressing now. It gives me little hope for the species.

[Under The Radar]

5. That is liberty in a nutshell....

You have the right to do and act as you wish as long as it does not infringe, impose, impede or bother others and their liberties.
Those liberties with your Bible, your body, your guns and what you drink and smoke ...in your own house.
No one has the right to force their rights on to someone else, and the government shall pass no laws that endorse your beliefs on others....I don’t care what MRs Barrett believes.

[Docreed2003]

6. The problem with these "sincerely held religious beliefs" folks

Is they sincerely believe it's their right to act like total assholes to anyone they disagree with and some intentionally go looking for conflict so they can act out and then scream "oppression". Personal beliefs should extend no further than the person when it comes to society interactions and government, but these folks simply cannot see it that way

[smirkymonkey]

8. Amen and Thank YOU!

Brilliant. Well said!

[treestar]

9. It is very twisted of them to

insist that it is a matter of their religious liberty that the state cooperate by making their rules into law. They don't seem to realize that if someday another religion were to dominate (or atheism dominate) that they would be the ones who need the protection of the First Amendment. And that to have that, they need to respect others' religious liberty now.

[KS Toronado]

20. You get a AMEN also.

[modrepub]

11. Amen

Someone should plot up all the churches that have closed in the last 50 years. I wouldn't be surprised if a great majority of them come from "red" counties. I believe most folks connection to organized religion is truly tenuous. They'll show up for Christmas and Easter services and shyly agree with the religious right when they begin their proselytizing but they rarely seem to practice anything that would resemble the 10 Commandments or even be able to state what they are.

[Solly Mack]

12. K&R

[stopbush]

13. In the USA, you can believe what you want, but that doesn't obligate

anyone else to allow that your beliefs are based on a scintilla of truth/fact.

Stupid beliefs may be summarily dismissed, no matter how fervently believed.

[spanone]

14. AMEN!!!

[Jamastiene]

15. I wish we could add something in our laws about not making laws enforcing

a certain religion on the whole country. Apparently, saying something about the US government not being allowed to establish a religion wasn't enough. Maybe we need to make one that says hell no, stop that. No laws enforcing your religious views on the whole country. I could not agree with you more and I would add no more laws based on someone's religion, trying to force it on the whole country.

[Wounded Bear]

16. Amen...Without freedom from religion, there is no freedom of religion.

[BarbD]

25. Amen to that as well.

[Duppers]

17. Hear hear!

👍👍

[Missn-Hitch]

18. Hear, hear!!

1. Atheists/Agnostics want to be neighbors with the religious. THEY are the ones that do not want to be neighbors. Hell, they want to see us hang.

2. My prayer: Dear God(s), please protect me from your followers. Amen.

I will not be rounded up.

[iscooterliberally]

21. Dog is my co-pilot, and he has something profound to say regarding religion:

[AZ8theist]

22. But there is COMPLETE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM in America!!!

As long as you're Christian, you are free to believe in any and all bigotry and stupidity you can muster up.

As long as you're Christian, it's ok black and brown people are murdered in the streets. but don't you dare touch that fetus!!!
(and, by the way, once that fetus is born, as a Christian, it's ok to not give a shit about it again...)

As a Christian, you are free to follow the teachings in the bible. Well, not ALL of them. It ok to pick and choose.

To paraphrase Sam Harris; "What's believed by the millions would be treated as insanity when believed by the individual"...
(That's not the direct quote, but you get the gist of it..)

[ProfessorGAC]

23. Amen To Kick

[Traildogbob]

24. Excellent!

Tax the mofo’s. Joel Olsteen taxes alone could improve our budget with amount he should pay. Churches/religion are Socialism.

[Harker]

26. Settle for a "so be it"? n/t

[keithbvadu2]

27. Freedom of whose religion?

[H2O Man]

28. Amen!

Recommended.

[pansypoo53219]

29. i.m not catholic + i don't wanna be one. fuck fetuses.

[Yavin4]

30. Which religion are they talking about?

There are hundreds of religions, maybe thousands. Each with its own set of beliefs, customs, ethics, etc. How can any legislative body make laws respecting their "liberties"? It's impossible.

In a democracy, laws should be based on respecting the rights of the individual to live their lives as they see fit so long as that individual does no harm to anyone else, not some set of unproven superstitions.

[Cadfael]

32. Amen!

[BadgerMom]

33. Amen!

Preach.

[reACTIONary]

34. Freedom OF religion requires...

... that there also be freedom FROM religion.

[PatrickforO]

35. Amen, brother!

I'm all for freedom FROM religion.

[softydog88]

36. I don't believe that anyone knows for certain what happens to me after I die.

And I don't need the bible (aka the goat herder's guide to the universe) to tell me how to be a good person and live a good life. To quote Sam Harris "do you want to have a first century conversation about ethics, or a twenty-first century conversation about ethics?" I choose the latter.

[patphil]

37. Religious liberty must work both ways.

In the USA, we are free to worship God however we want. That means each religion must respect the beliefs of all others, and of all the citizens.

We are not free to impose our beliefs on others, and certainly not free to make the religious beliefs and actions of others criminal offenses.

I don't believe God cares about all this homosexuals are evil shit. And God certainly doesn't care about who marries who.
Only people do; people who are all too quick to put their words in God's mouth; people who have lots of religion, and no spirituality.

I also don't believe God is opposed to abortion. Since the child's spirit enters the body at the time of the first breath, abortion is definitely not a case of murder.
I even feel that late term abortions are acceptable when the fetus is deemed not viable by doctors, and/or a continued pregnancy would seriously harm the mother.

This religious crap is much more of a dark-side ploy to control people through fear, guilt and threat of punishment than it is a legitimate expression of freedom of religion.

[Talitha]

38. If you confront one of these fanatics in person, here's what you do..

Tell them that God gave us all free choice, and then damn them for trying to deny you of God's generous gift. It always puts their panties in a knot.

[tosh]

39. AMEN and HALLELUJA!!

[Politicub]

40. The religious freedom restoration act

from the Clinton era has done more harm than good. It’s cited in a lot of the religious freedom cases.

I hate that we have to worry about some religious nut being offended by the simple fact that I exist and am unashamed. Their worry can translate into job discrimination and refusal to serve LGBT folk.

[chowder66]

41. AMEN!! nt

[pamdb]

42. quote

It was from Downton Abby. Maggie Smith says it

"My dear, religion is like apenis. It's a perfectly fine thing to have and take pride in, but when one takes it out and waves it in my face, we have a problem."

I would post the picture of dam Maggie but I don't know how to do that.

[Atticus]

45. Thank you! nt

[Nevilledog]

85. ...

[volstork]

43. "Religious liberty"

only applies to Xian cults, not to mainstream Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Confucianists, Jains, Sikhs, etc.

They would be going batshit crazy if one of those groups was trying to push through THEIR agenda.

[BigDemVoter]

44. EXACTLY +10000000000000000000000000

They want their freedom of religoin to supersede everyone else's rights. . . .

I have NEVER understood HOW they cannot understand that by forcing children to pray in school VIOLATES their rights.

And I get REALLY tired of them talking about their bullshit "non-denominational" business. It is NEVER 'non-denominational.' When they say that, it means fundamentalist and USUALLY evangelical. . . . And I don't care if it TRULY were 'non-denominational', I don't care to participate. If they want US to put up with that, then WE should have the right to force them to participate in seances in which we make contact with our beloved dogs who preceded us in death. Shit.

And as for the gay stuff? I listened to these motherfuckers demean gays my entire life until I got the fuck away from them at 18. . . .

They can take their ignorance and just FUCK OFF. I HATE these people.

[certainot]

46. republican radio's been on it for years, pushing those cases up the courts like they

have for so many other issues

[bluestarone]

47. May i add my amen here?

AMEN!!

[txwhitedove]

48. Ramen, because I haven't seen enough of the Flying Spaghetti guy around here lately. 😏

[Atticus]

49. Gnocchi-dokey with me. nt

[hvn_nbr_2]

50. They think that "religious freedom" means that they get to establish a theocracy

If they can't have a theocracy, then they're being persecuted. Of course, such reasoning only applies for them. Religious freedom means no freedom for anyone but themselves.

[moondust]

62. +1000

Using religion to gain secular power.

[lonely bird]

74. When you mix religion and politics...

you get politics. Religion, the three so-called Abrahamic faiths in particular, is about social control.

[wendyb-NC]

51. Amen.

My sentiments exactly.

[chriscan64]

52. The delusion of infinite freedom.

They don't think theirs ends when it bumps up against yours. They think religious freedom means the right to live in a world free of anyone else's religious freedom.

[mountain grammy]

54. Kick, kick, kick

[Ferrets are Cool]

55. Amen!!!

Righteous rant...so to speak.

[BobTheSubgenius]

56. Amen!

One of my biggest bones of contention with 20th and 21st Century America.

[KT2000]

58. AMEN!!!

AMEN! AMEN!! AMEN!!!

[Skittles]

61. a new neighbor assured me that pedophiles and gay men are one and the same thing

I told her I thought that was ridiculous....she said she thinks homosexuality is an abomination....I said, I think YOU'RE an abomination....have a nice day! and I walked away

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

63. AMEN!!!

Except, it's also, and perhaps more, like waving an empty hand in the air and demanding that everyone agree that you're holding a penis in the empty hand.

[TruckFump]

64. AMEN!!!

I’ll sing your chorus! 👍

[Mike Niendorff]

65. Here's how I've always put it :

Freedom of religion does not include the right to persecute others.


MDN

[pfitz59]

66. Amen

I'm tired of Xian nut-sacks trying to start a Civil War

[brewens]

68. To the colonists, fleeing religious persecution meant coming over here, then doing the

same to anyone that didn't make believe as they did. They were fleeing persecution from other so-called Christians. If we let these evangelicals call the shots, they will do the same.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

69. AMEN!

"Stop using God as your excuse for being an asshole!"

That one is new to me. Perfect.

[marlakay]

70. I have been doing surveys for over 15 years

First it was polling point that turned into yougov most are about what you buy, tech stuff but starting about 5 years ago started asking more and more political and religious questions.

About every third survey I get asked what religion I am, they list about 20 or none then ask if I pray and how often. Sometimes they ask if you go to church and how often.

I think about this sometimes wondering who pays for the surveys and why do they want to know what religion we are. I wonder what the results are.

I say none, I don't pray but who wants to know?

[HAB911]

71. AMEN! PREACH BROTHER!

[WyattKansas]

72. First Rule Mike: Stop invoking God while being a habitual LIAR especially about facts.

I wondered following the debate if Mike Pence immediately went to a Catholic Church or a Priest to confess his sins? And did the Priest instruct him to make amends and sin no more? Or does Mike Pence just use a broad stroke vague summary when he has time to get to it as a means to shield himself for being a Republican and to subvert the instruction?

If not, then Mike Pence should not stand there and wear the Catholic faith as a badge with impunity to attack and question another Catholic.

[Ingersollman]

83. Pence

is not a catholic anymore. He converted. He is an evangelical RWNJ.

[WyattKansas]

93. That is just more of Pence's perversion of the truth and being a fraud.

Especially when he attacks Joe Bidon's faith.

No wonder Mike Pence attracts flies and has bloody eyes... Perhaps Mike Pence likes to demon worship as well, like he has done the last four years.

[niyad]

75. Speak it!!

[SnowCritter]

76. AMEN!!!

N/T

[JudyM]

77. Total agreement. It's also preventing us from saving the planet.

My fundamentalist neighbors think we can trash the planet because ... magical thinking. And they vote en masse based on these magical beliefs.

[3catwoman3]

78. Amen, AMEN...

...and AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I was a kid and someone got too nosey, we would say “MYOB” - Mind Your Own Business.” A good guideline to follow regarding matter of the spirit.

[Cozmo]

79. For me. the existence of God and the teachings of Christ embody the best I can be

Anyone who uses God and Christ for evil is a deplorable. My heart tells me that I am the most happy when following the teachings of Christ in my daily life. However, I do have emboldened my life when I do not hold back on calling out evil. I never held back when I wished for Hitler's demise, nor do I hold back on wishing for the demise of the "hitler in the WH". I would like to see his TAX RETURNS. AND A NICE BIG PRISON STAY FOR HIM AND ALL HIS FAMILY. OK, So maybe I'm not as godly as I should be but ~ right is right.

[bpcmxr]

80. This all day.

Thank you.

[Labiglabocce]

82. Amen

Amen, my friend!

[hunter]

84. I have zero tolerance for anti-intellectual religions lately.

People who worship the psychopath gods, and/or the little gods obsessed with sex, already live in some kind of hell. Damn them all for inflicting their twisted beliefs on others. I don't accept any of their shit. They can keep it in their pants.

Dead-eye Mike Pence creeps me out. There's some really nasty shit in his closet. I'm certain that's why he's vice president. He's on a very tight leash. If he ever turned against his masters they would destroy him.

[SheltieLover]

88. Amen!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

89. A FU**ING MEN...

Everyone who declares they believe in One True God are closer to being an atheist than they think.

They have rejected every god but theirs.

[calimary]

90. Yep. You can get an "AMEN!"

Certainly a big, hearty one from me!

With bells on!

[lambchopp59]

91. Y'all best regret any time you ever had an independent thought, the sky spook a-gonna gitcha.

Opioid of the masses wouldn't be so destructive if it weren't usurped to keep those masses humbly subservient. How very interesting recently that religious zombies ended up sick with COVID because they actually believed in superstitious nonsense, how many are beginning to question the basis of that idiot televangelist that prayed the virus away.
On that belief, since this idiot called for "heat" to destroy COVID, I say we bring out the pitchforks and build the woodpile at the stake for causing all these fires and smoke here on the west coast.
SURE!! That will appease the sky spooks... human sacrifice!!!

[Heartstrings]

92. This sums it up for me....

[gristy]

97. Amen!

[LittleGirl]

98. Yes, and TAX THE CHURCHES! eom

[BeckyDem]

100. Me too.

The Trump administration continues to misuse religious freedom to deny reproductive health care to millions of people.

Particularly in the midst of a pandemic, our government should be protecting America’s workers and students, not putting them at risk and calling it religious freedom. But that’s exactly what the Trump administration is doing with proposed rules that would allow employers and universities to use religion to deny birth control coverage to workers and students.


https://www.au.org/issues/reproductive-rights