NYT posts hit article on Biden's health.

[RandySF]

I won't bother posting the slime.



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/04/us/politics/biden-covid-test-trump.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

[mucifer]

1. For those of us who don't subscribe can you give any info on the article?

[RandySF]

2. Claiming the Biden campaign hasn't transparent about his testing protocols.

[mucifer]

8. From the paragraphs people have posted, it doesn't seem too bad.

[elleng]

9. It's not, and based on old campaign practices (it appears.)

[uppityperson]

3. A clip

After Biden’s Exposure to Trump, His Team Is Cagey on Health Questions
With transparency on health newly significant in the presidential race, Joe Biden’s safety protocols have remained largely under wraps. But on Sunday evening, his campaign said he had again tested negative for the coronavirus.
.........

But beyond the public examples of safety precautions, Mr. Biden’s health protocols have remained largely under wraps, with his campaign saying little about what steps it is taking to protect the 77-year-old Democratic nominee.

His aides will not answer questions about whether Mr. Biden is tested daily; they say simply that he is tested “regularly.” Until this weekend, they had promised to inform the public only if he had a confirmed positive case. Then, on Saturday night, after two days of refusing to provide details about Mr. Biden’s testing procedures, the campaign committed to releasing the results of all of his tests. He tested negative on Sunday, his campaign said.
......

[elleng]

6. One example:

*Mr. Biden tested negative for the virus twice on Friday, the Biden campaign said. He was not tested on Saturday and left his home for part of the day, going to a theater to participate in a virtual event and a church to attend Mass. The campaign announced his latest negative test result on Sunday night. Pressed on CNN about the frequency of Mr. Biden’s coronavirus tests, Ms. Sanders said the candidate was “tested before we travel.”

In the coming days, the Biden campaign is aiming to balance health precautions with continued travel in Florida on Monday and in Arizona on Thursday. Yet Mr. Trump’s positive test has plainly injected an extraordinary measure of uncertainty into the race.

“We only have a few weeks left to the election, and they want Joe Biden to have the ability to present himself to the American public,” Dr. Redlener said. “And the president’s recklessness has thrown things off track and the Biden campaign is frustrated by that.”

But whatever his travel schedule, Mr. Biden should be tested every day at least until Oct. 13, two weeks from the night of the debate, and probably even after that given his interactions with people on the campaign trail, experts said.

“Getting a negative test does not necessarily mean that you’re not infected,” said Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside. Early in the infection, the amount of the virus may be too low to trigger a positive result. “You have to keep being diligent, and assuming that you may have actually been infected, so you need to be testing on a daily basis,” she said.'

Mildly judgmental, imo.

[SharonClark]

17. I don't subscribe and the link worked for me.

[Blue_true]

40. Your IP address could have indicated that you qualified to read the article for free.

Some papers give a certain number of free reads without a subscription.

What I read doesn’t sound like a hit piece. It sounds like reporters wanting to know all details given what is happening. I can see why the Biden campaign is hesitant, Trump’s recklessness has basically upended the private lives of everyone on the Biden campaign.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. 4 paragraphs

WASHINGTON — For months, Joseph R. Biden Jr. has gone to great lengths to model responsible behavior in the coronavirus era. He wears masks in public. He does not hold crowded rallies. When he gives speeches, reporters sit at a distance from one another, with white circles on the ground to mark their turf.

These actions have so far helped keep Mr. Biden healthy and able to continue campaigning while President Trump, who mocked masks and held large events, is now hospitalized with Covid-19.

But beyond the public examples of safety precautions, Mr. Biden’s health protocols have remained largely under wraps, with his campaign saying little about what steps it is taking to protect the 77-year-old Democratic nominee.

His aides will not answer questions about whether Mr. Biden is tested daily; they say simply that he is tested “regularly.” Until this weekend, they had promised to inform the public only if he had a confirmed positive case. Then, on Saturday night, after two days of refusing to provide details about Mr. Biden’s testing procedures, the campaign committed to releasing the results of all of his tests. He tested negative on Sunday, his campaign said.

snip

[JI7]

5. They need to make up for the articles on Trump's taxes

[Elwood P Dowd]

7. Rupert Murdoch (Fox News) owned trash paper. (nt)

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Murdoch owns the Times now?

[Elwood P Dowd]

22. Sorry, got the Times and Post mixed up.

My 73-year-old eyes have trouble sometimes reading these blue links.

[TreasonousBastard]

23. No problem-- mine are the same age, and one of them doesn't work at all. Amazing what I

don't see.

[Walleye]

10. So this is all they could find to nitpick about?

[TreasonousBastard]

11. But you'll post the link. As the quoted passages seem to say, the article is a reasonable assessment

of what Biden is and isn't doing, especially after being on the same stage as a known Covid victim.

Article does mention that transmission has happened at 16', a few feet more than the 12' separating them. And Trump's yelling no doubt made his effluents a bit worse.

[Ms. Toad]

14. I agree as to the risk -

BUT - the article suggests that Biden is not following the guidelines (in the same way Pence - with much more significant exposure isn't following the guidelines)

I don't agree with the guidelines, but Biden is following the guidelines.

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Seems there's a lot of slack in those quidelines...

In the coming days, the Biden campaign is aiming to balance health precautions with continued travel in Florida on Monday and in Arizona on Thursday. Yet Mr. Trump’s positive test has plainly injected an extraordinary measure of uncertainty into the race.

“We only have a few weeks left to the election, and they want Joe Biden to have the ability to present himself to the American public,” Dr. Redlener said. “And the president’s recklessness has thrown things off track and the Biden campaign is frustrated by that.”

[Ms. Toad]

13. The article stretches the guidelines beyond the breaking point

to make Biden's campaigning equivalent to Pence's.

Biden was not in close contact with Trump during the debate.

The criteria is unmasked, within 6 feet for more than 15 minutes, wihin 48 hours of the onset of symptoms.

Biden was unmasked, but he was not within 6 feet for more than 15 minutes, and depending on what symptoms you count (acknowledged v. not acknowledged) the 48 hours is close. He seemed to me off on Tuesday, he was so fatigued on Wednesday he slept on the plane, and he started running a fever on Thursday.

So - Biden is following the guidelines.

Pence, on the other hand, is not. He has been in close contact, unmasked, within 6 feet, considerably closer in time to the onset of Trump's symptoms.

Pence is not.

Clear stretching to get to both sides.

That said - it is my opinion that the guidelines are not sufficient and Biden should be campaigning remotely.

But to equate the two behaviors is - as you put it - a hit piece.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. But you missed this part, even after I mentioned it earlier...

In August, scientists said they had extracted live virus from the air at seven and 16 feet from an infected patient in a hospital room. “We know six feet is not a magical distance,” Dr. Marr said.

During the debate, Mr. Trump could have released 10 times as much virus as he would have by breathing alone, Dr. Marr said.

“The combination of the two factors makes Biden a close contact, even if the letter of the law doesn’t consider him one,” Dr. Marr said.

[LisaL]

24. Let's hope Mr. Trump wasn't yet releasing that much virus.

NT

[TreasonousBastard]

26. Agreed. I hope so too, but you just don't know.

[Ms. Toad]

25. No I didnt.

The guidelines are clear, and Biden is complying with them. Pence is not. The article equates the two behaviors.

I said, in both posts, that I disagree with the guidelines - I don't think they are sufficient (in case it isn't clear - for the same reasons the Times mentions).

But it is a very different thing to violate the guidelines than it is to fail to take steps beyond the guidelines. I would hope Biden would do the latter - BUT - this article accuses him of the former (equating his behavior to Pences).

[TreasonousBastard]

28. Curiously, I didn't read it that way at all-- just another background article.

[Ms. Toad]

32. Here.

The Biden campaign’s decision to continue with a planned trip to Grand Rapids, Mich., on Friday after Mr. Biden tested negative raised its own questions, and threatened to undermine the former vice president’s message about putting health and safety above politics.

By continuing to campaign after having been exposed to an infected person — Mr. Trump — on Tuesday night, Mr. Biden is flouting an important rule in public health, experts said. So, too, is Vice President Mike Pence, who met with the president in the Oval Office on Tuesday and plans to continue campaigning.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, anyone who has been in close contact with an infected person should “stay home (quarantine) since symptoms may appear two to 14 days after exposure to the virus,” and should “stay away from others.”

Dr. Michelson, the bioethicist, said of the former vice president, “I don’t see why it’s different for Mr. Biden, or Mr. Trump, or anybody else,” adding, “I think like he, like every other citizen, should abide by the C.D.C. guidance.”

Exposure is defined very narrowly in the CDC guidelines - and Biden was not exposed.

I've been wrestling with this personally, since I am not even entitled to know when a student is my class is told to stay home because of symptoms UNLESS they are in a seat that is within 6' of me, and one or both of us is unmasked. I know how rigidly the CDC, and the state departments of health interpret the meaning of exposure.

The NYT is stretching it beyond breaking to say that Biden is ixposed and is flaunting the rules - in the same way Trump (who has clearly had exposure that falls within the guidelines) actually is flaunting them.

[TreasonousBastard]

35. It is not a stretch. I read that and simply saw it as recognition that the guidelines are guidelines

not rules. And are subject to interpretation and change.

Saying the Biden is presumably exposed is not a stretch. Now that Trump is known to be infected, Biden should simply act with extreme caution.

The safe assumption should be that Biden has been exposed, since he was within the 16' known zone of dispersal.

If one of us had a child in a classroom 12' from a teacher who was then found to have Conronvirus, would we be so cavalier about that distance?

[Ms. Toad]

36. The guidelines are very specific as to what constitutes exposure.

The debate does NOT count as exposure.

You and I agree as to the reality of exposure - as far as I'm concerned (guidelines aside) he should be isolating himself. Our disagreement isn't about what he should be doing - we're in agreement on that. I expect those in our party to go above and beyond the guidelines. I certainly am far more cautious in my own behavior - and I hope our leaders lead by example.

This discussion is about the accuracy of reporting. It's about the NYTimes equating Biden's behavior to Pence's by falsely stating that Biden isn't following CDC guidelines. He is - because by the terms of the guidelines he was NOT exposed.

Pence, on the other had was - and is NOT following the guidelines.

The two behaviors are not the same - and it is irresponsible for the NYTimes to say they are.

[TreasonousBastard]

37. Guidelines, schmidelines Biden was possibly exposed...

“The combination of the two factors makes Biden a close contact, even if the letter of the law doesn’t consider him one,” Dr. Marr said.

And the point about who "really" blew the guidelines is moot.

This whole thing is simply another attempt to trash the Times. It's not perfect by any means, but this minor comment in a minor article really isn't worth this discussion.

[Ms. Toad]

38. Sorry - but I both a defender of and subscriber to the Times

My subscription is paid out of my own pocket - so I'm not just accessing a subscription provided by work, or a library, etc.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Your quote is from a doctor as to the reality of exposure, on which we agree.

I would have no beef if the NYTimes article acknowledged he was in compliance with the guidelines, whereas Pence was not - and then went on ot point out that as the candidate who is running on a platform of responsiblity he should be doing more.

But that is not what they did. They equated Pence's flaunting of the guidelines with Biden's careful compliance with the guidelines.

[LAS14]

29. I totally agree! See my reply down thread. nt

[SharonClark]

15. It was a hit piece - the language was very accusatory.

My takeaway of the article:
Trump is a liar and ignores health guidelines so Biden must be ultra transparent regarding healh issues so the public can trust public officials again. It's Biden obligation to build the trust that Trump has destroyed and it's Biden's fault if he doesn't. Biden must be tested everyday and reveal the results to the public.

The double standard is shocking.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

30. yup. typical nyt.

which is why i wont give them my money.

[dalton99a]

39. +1

[brooklynite]

16. I'd say the OP is a hit piece on the Times...

They blew up the Trump campaign with their tax expose but they want to "hit" the Biden campaign?

[TreasonousBastard]

21. I found out years ago that no matter what you write, you cannot control how it is received.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. You mean the same New York Times

that ran dozens of articles on Whitewater never mentioning the Clintons had been cleared of wrongdoing by the Arkansas AG years before. The same New York Times that misquoted what Al Gore said about Love Canal so they could attack him for it. The same New York Times that had to had to issue several corrections and retractions to stories they ran about Hillary Clinton’s emails because they falsely intimidated that she broke the law. The same New York Times that still employs a columnist who gave Obama the derogatory name Obambi. You mean that New York Times?

[brooklynite]

41. I mean the New York Times that's being published today.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Which has a questionable history

[Quixote1818]

20. I looked up the author. He seems pretty down the line. I would not worry about it.

Probably just trying to throw something out there on Biden for balance since Trump's health is a complete shit show right now.

[LAS14]

27. Oh, come on!!! Biden was at least 12 feet away from Trump.

He did not violate CDC guidelines. MSM just needs a story!

"By continuing to campaign after having been exposed to an infected person — Mr. Trump — on Tuesday night, Mr. Biden is flouting an important rule in public health, experts said."

[TreasonousBastard]

31. As I have said twice-- the CDC guideines have not been given by God and Trump...

violated them by constantly boviating.

And after all the talk about listening to experts, here are some no one thinks worth listening to.

[Celerity]

33. does not read like a hit piece to me, so I will pass on the framing nt

[Blue_true]

42. I read only a small amount, but it simply sounded like a reporter trying to keep the public

informed.

Trump’s idiocy has thrown a wrench into everything, so I can see how Biden and his campaign people are frustrated. They may have been planning a series of October events to close the deal, but Trump getting himself sick has caused complications that Biden is having to adjust to.

[Celerity]

43. like so many have said, everything Trump touches, dies (Biden will be a huge exception, thank fuck)

cheers