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Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:36 PM

Should I go buy an AR-15?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by applegrove (a host of the General Discussion forum).

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that Trump will not accept defeat in November, no matter how overwhelming the results. I believe Trump will call for armed resistance when he loses.

I'm pretty well known in my little town as an anti-Trumper. I have to be on "the list." I have no reason to believe the local police would protect me and mine from Trump's brown shirts if they decided to cleanse the community.

I spent nearly thirty years in the Army. I am well trained in the use of an M-16/AR 15. (Maybe I need a 9mm too.) If the brown shirts came calling, I could do a lot of damage on my way down. I have never had any interest in owning any firearm other than a shotgun for hunting. Maybe, it's time to be prepared to defend myself and mine.

Please talk me off the ledge.

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Reply Should I go buy an AR-15? (Original post)
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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:39 PM

1. Conservatives underestimate how many guns "liberals" have

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:40 PM

2. So, you think I should go buy the weapon?

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:45 PM

11. If you are experienced and responsible, sure.

I’d rather the real thing than a plastic or wooden homemade penis extension.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:54 PM

22. At least pick up a shotgun and maybe a handgun:

Here in MN, don't need a permit for a shotgun. If you get a pump action one, you could scare many people away just by putting a shell in the chamber. I felt I needed one with us living so close to the riots here.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:27 PM

56. I have a .338 RUM, .300 Win Mag, and

3 1/2 inch Gold hunter. My Alaska rifles and shotgun. I hope I never need to use them

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 03:46 PM

150. If you're using 338RUM in a "combat" situation, you're either insane or very very skilled

I have one myself and while I'm sure it would absolutely stop someone if I had to use it in self-defense...I mean, using a round that can kill a man at a mile is just a skitch overkill for home protection, innit?

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 10:35 AM

136. Jumping in to ask you to think about exactly what may happen

Assume the election is contested. So red wave on Election Day, blue wave as early votes are counted. (most likely IMHO). let us play this one out.

Trump riles up his rabid followers, they arm up and take to the streets. Ask yourself this, what streets? I would guess by the courthouse holding the vote returns. What is their goal, scare the vote counters, what will the reaction be to this, large protests against the scare tactics (think Bush Gore, only way larger/violent). So what we have are two large groups around the courthouse, both most likely armed one overtly, the other concealed. (again just a guess).

Where are you? Is you residence next door to the courthouse? If not, I would not worry in this situation. If your at the courthouse as a counter protester a small light sidearm would be a better option. (you can conceal it, you do not appear to be a threat, but are ready just in case)

When to worry (buy the gun), if you truly believe that Trump will win a contested election, and give the okay to "remove" the "problems". Second situation, you honestly believe that even if he looses, the people you describe will take up arms against any one they believe voted "the wrong way".

What I believe, that the violence if it comes to that will be at the protest sites, not a house to house thing.

My opinion again, when he is removed, his supporters will talk a big game, but mostly just crawl back in their holes, and be the trolls they are.

Not self protection reason to buy the gun, it will most likely go up in value, Biden has spoken a lot about gun control, the gun you describe would most likely be included, prior gun control laws bumped up the value of that specific weapon a whole lot, as in 3 to 5 times initial purchase price.

I am not a huge gun hater or lover. I have thought many times in our recent past of purchasing a nice Beretta 9mm pistol (for me, light, easy load, easy trigger) , we have a couple of long guns at the house, but they are not easy to use, there my SO's who has them as part of his hobby of restoring WWII objects (cars, motorcycles, etc), so in comparison to today's guns not as user friendly.

One last note, I do know how to shoot, have owned guns, have done skeet (that's hard), and basic target (pretty easy once you get your sites set). I have never felt the need to have a gun since I moved from a very rural area. Two reasons I no longer own guns, I would have to pay for a range to practice, and I live where police exist, rather than two sheriff cars covering over 100 square miles.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:40 PM

3. Your mileage may vary depending on skin tone. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:43 PM

7. My DNA testing says that I'm more Scottish than most people in Scotland.

I'm white enough but I have a genetic predisposition to fighting losing battles.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:46 PM

13. You're safe then. Proceed. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:55 PM

25. HAH!

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:41 PM

4. No.

Next question.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:44 PM

9. What if Barr and millions of trumpers and police and rank and file military decide YOU and me

are the enemy?


Just asking what people think. Sincere question.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:06 PM

39. I'd rather do as my grandparents did when repressed by Stalin.

And look for alternative places to seek asylum and live free from repression.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:42 PM

5. You dont have any weapons now? Can you buy one?

As an exercise my cousin and I looked at popular gun sale sites, per him, I dont know, and many weapons were not available, much ammo also not available, but there are so many sites...might not be the case on all of them.

I dont know what the status of that is but wont be surprised if the sycophant fascist base has it all.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:46 PM

16. I can buy the weapon. I know a guy.

Given the money, I could arm an infantry platoon.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:42 PM

6. Good lawd, no. n/t

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:43 PM

8. You really have 30 years in the military and don't even own a 9mm?

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Response to Flaleftist (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:50 PM

20. Nope. Never wanted or thought I needed one.

I have my grand father's .22 revolver.

The last few years in the Army, my assigned weapon was a pistol. Maybe the answer is a 9mm. I was a better shot with the 9mm than the M16 anyway.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:45 PM

10. No, but if you must

Learn how to use it properly. Your area probably has a gun club. Go there, and learn how to use and handle it properly, disassemble it, reassemble it, load it, unload it, and get advice and tips from other AR-15 owners.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:53 PM

21. I have very nearly thirty years of the best training available.

The membership of the local "gun club" and the Trump brown shirts significantly overlap.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:45 PM

12. No.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:46 PM

14. Personally, I wouldn't.

I always try to think things like this through to a conclusion.

Picture how bad things would have to be in order for you to use the AR-15.

What scenario would have to take place in order for you to use it?

Would we be in a Nazi Germany situation?

Would we be in a hot civil war?

So you use the AR-15, maybe kill a dozen people, then what? Would you be killed by more of "them" because they overwhelmed you with their sheer volume of people?

Would you need to hide your family in your attic in order to try to keep them safe?

Are any of these scenarios really plausible? If things did indeed get that bad, do you think having a few guns would save you?



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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:54 PM

23. it's not just a matter of saving yourself

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:58 PM

29. What is the entire matter then?

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:13 PM

47. if he believes the shit might hit the fan in his neck of the woods then protecting his family

and his neighbors might be worth getting gun protection, with proper training and knowing the weapon.
you don't bring a slice of salami to a gun fight, you can't reason with many of these gun nuts

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:14 PM

49. So he kills a few of them. Then what happens?

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #49)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:21 PM

53. what do you think?

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #53)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:28 PM

57. Many possibilities

1) He gets himself/his family killed

2) He is hauled away and prosecuted for murder

3) His house becomes like a scene from the shootout at the OK Corral.

4) He's forced to run with his family to avoid retaliation.

My point is this: If things get bad enough where we have to start slaughtering people because they are trying to kill or imprison us on a mass scale, we are all fucked anyway. People somehow get in their minds that they can take care of what would amount to dystopia, simply by owning a gun.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:46 PM

68. how many guns are out in the general public?, 100 million, 500 million? more?

be as prepared as you dare

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:51 PM

73. The estimates range from 400 to 600 million, with hundreds of millions of high capacity magazines

and hundreds of billions of rounds of ammunition.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #73)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:21 AM

125. And despite all the silly billy big bollocks bravado I see on here all the time, the VAST

majority of those guns and ammunition are in RWers hands.

If a limited but hot shooting war breaks out, then for a Dem (especially an open, active one) who lives in an overwhelming RW area that goes hot, fleeing is deffo the best answer. They will simply be outgunned if they try and fight back.

I truly do not think some on here understand who deeply programmed tens of millions of RWers are. They have been scientifically trained to dehumanize anyone who is a political opponent. They literally will start killing if they are given the right inputs.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #125)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:30 AM

127. In another thread, someone flatly asserted that liberalls owned far more guns per capita than

conservatives. When pressed for documentation, they said they didn't have access to the data any more.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #127)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:56 AM

129. That is a laughable assertion on its face. They are just trolling you m8.

Cheers

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:52 PM

74. I have no idea.

I don't really care about guns.

I shot a gun once in my life.

I've never needed one for protection in 62 years.

I like to plan far ahead when it comes to onerous possibilities, and come up with a plan of action. Those plans don't include owning a gun. I want two things for me and mine:

1) To stay not dead by weighing risks and acting accordingly

2) To stay out of prison

Other people feel differently and that's fine with me.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #74)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:54 PM

77. I have a pistol, got it in the eighties for plinking

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #77)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:55 PM

79. What is plinking?

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #79)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:59 PM

82. it's fun

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #79)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:00 PM

83. "Casual" shooting. Still following all safety rules, of course, but not striving for the most

possible accuracy, but rather (for instance) shooting at a tin can over and over to see how many times in a row you can hit it.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:01 PM

86. Thank you...I had to Google it.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:46 PM

15. I think you have 2 choices if you honestly feel you'd be in danger:

leave town until it blows over or stay and defend yourself. From the way you talk about where you live there must be way more of them than you, so I'd consider option one.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:04 PM

36. Robert Burns rings in my head

"Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave?
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee."

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #36)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:33 PM

95. Excellent! Made better by your location!

Can’t see you fleeing your home!

Have a nice evening.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:47 PM

17. If you are ever in Albuquerque give me a call and I'll sell you

mine. My shooting group has dissolved and my guns are collecting dust. I also have a very nice Benelli M2 suitable for clays.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:47 PM

18. Ammo for all guns is very scarce. You might end up with an AR-15 club.

I went to the Buds Guns website and they are out of all 223 Remington/5.56 NATO ammunition .

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:03 PM

34. Just go to ammoseek.com, and you'll find all the 5.56 you could ever want.

You'll have to pay vastly inflated prices for it, granted.....

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:16 PM

51. Prices are high. Lowest cost .38 Special is 3 times what I paid this summer

Thanks for the site. I'm thinking of getting a break action single shot 20 gauge for my wife to use as a backup but have been holding off because of the scarcity of ammo.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #51)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:33 PM

59. I'd be very hesitant to recommend a single shot (in any caliber) for self defense. Granted, it's

better than nothing, but you could get an inexpensive 20 Ga. pump shotgun for not much more than a single shot. 20 Ga. buckshot is absurdly expensive right now at $3/round, but a couple of places have it.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:22 PM

116. In a panic situation, an inexperienced shooter could short stroke the pump action

My wife will never get the training that, IMO, she would need to handle a pump action or semi-auto with skill in a pressure situation. A single shot break action is about as simple and reliable as could be.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #116)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:47 PM

119. Good point. Something that people with experience around firearms tend to forget.

One thought: What about a double-barreled coach gun in 20 Ga.? Every bit as simple and reliable as a single shot break open, and twice the capacity.

Disadvantage: Cost. You can get an ATI Nomad single shot 20 Ga. on Gunbroker right now for $120 (plus shipping, transfer fee, etc.). You can't touch a Stoeger coach gun right now for less than $450.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:23 PM

93. Ask your local sporting goods store or target range when their ammo truck get delivered.

Show up right after that. One near me gets their truck at 5am on Tuesdays and there are about a dozen people waiting outside before they open.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:49 PM

19. .223, 9mm, .45 auto ammo is really hard find right now. Get a Mossberg shotgun. They're more

practical for home defense and easier to find ammo.

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Response to stewrat (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:58 PM

30. I saw a thread that buckshot is hard to find

But goose or turkey loads should be an adequate substitute at close range.

OTOH, if they are coming with body armor, .30-06 or .308 should be preferred.

Make sure you have a good position with cover. If they are close enough for a handgun to be useful, you are doing it wrong.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:05 PM

38. It's out there, but you're going to pay $1 to $2 per round for it right now.

Makes me glad I picked up a few hundred rounds of it at a fraction of that price some time ago.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:25 PM

54. I've got enough firepower for several zombie apocalypses.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:43 PM

65. ...or Winchester .30-30

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #65)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:49 PM

69. It's amazing how many people think that 5.56x45 is some sort of magic death ray

compared to Great-Great-Grandpa's deer rifle. A .30-30 has almost twice the energy as 5.56x45, and .30-30 is rather anemic as big game rounds go.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:50 PM

72. I love shooting my dads old Winchester model 1894.

Not a ton of kick but goddam powerful and accurate as hell.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:53 PM

75. I still have my father's Winchester Model 94.

It's a classic.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #75)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:53 PM

76. Yes they are.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 02:31 PM

144. I do love that old-school levergun action

I'd use mine for self-defense...bit hotter than Gramps' 30-30 though, Marlin 1895 Guide in 45-70 topped with a reflex sight and eating "modern" loads. A little spicy on the shoulder, but it'll stop just about anything I'd care to shoot it at dead in their tracks

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:55 PM

24. Good luck trying to find one. Ammo is almost impossible to find and prices have skyrocketed

The Great TP Shortage has transferred to guns and ammo. 5 million new gun buyers since March, gobbled it all up.


'Tectonic shift' as first-time gun buyers grow to nearly 5 million

NEWTOWN, Conn. — Nearly 5 million Americans purchased a firearm for the very first time in 2020, according to NSSF, the trade association for the firearm industry. NSSF surveyed firearm retailers which reported that 40 percent of sales were conducted to purchasers who have never previously owned a firearm.

NSSF tracks the background checks associated with the sale of a firearm based on the FBI’s National Instant Background Check System (NICS). The organization reports that background checks increased more than 71 percent over the same time last year, equating to nearly 5 million first-time gun owners in the first seven months of 2020.

NSSF surveys revealed that 58 percent of firearm purchases were among African American men and women, the largest increase of any demographic group. Women comprised 40 percent of first-time gun purchasers. Retailers noted that they are seeing a 95 percent increase in firearm sales and a 139 percent increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019.

Sales spiked in March, with a record-setting 2.3 million NICS background checks conducted for a firearm sale, the same month the corona virus pandemic struck.

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/tectonic-shift-as-first-time-gun-buyers-grow-to-nearly-5-million#:~:text=%E2%80%94%20Nearly%205%20million%20Americans%20purchased,never%20previously%20owned%20a%20firearm.

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Response to Baclava (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:01 PM

33. Oh, you can get them. My local gun shop still has AR-15's for under $750. Ammo is harder,

but you can get it if you're willing to pay through the nose. If you shop around you can still find it for about $700 per case of 1,000 rounds.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:32 PM

58. True and if U are Ret military, LE or 1st responder, gun stores have what u need, they keep extra

Ammo too, a quota not going to general public, but you have to identify yourself, sometimes they don't ask, reduced prices too

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Response to Baclava (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:35 PM

60. You must go to different gun shops than I do.

Rest assured, every one I'm familiar with treats everyone the same when it comes to inventory.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #60)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:45 PM

67. Certain manufacturers will allocate shops guns for special purchase, Glock has a program like this

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Response to Baclava (Reply #67)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:50 PM

71. Fair enough.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:55 PM

26. My guess?

If the shit really hits the fan, you will be able to buy them cheap.

What will happen is real killers will see a market for them and kill the idiots that march around in public, then take their gun and ammo. The crooks likely will sell at 5 cents on the dollar, hell, they wouldn’t have paid for them, so it’s all profit for the crooks.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:57 PM

27. I don't think so.

What good will it do, even if you are squarely within your rights to shoot them dead as they break and enter. Everything gets twisted nowadays.

I think spend money on food and supplies, and lay low until it becomes clear what's going on. If nothing, you have supplies. But, shooting someone is irreversible. Things have to be really clear. Put a surveillance system in instead.

If it turned out that you needed to join something and needed a weapon, one would be given to you, by someone.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:57 PM

28. Is your plan to go down in a blaze of glory? It sure sounds like it.

Let's suppose that your predictions are absolutely right. If this is the case, it seems to me you have two options:

A) Buy an AR-15, and wait for the Brown Shirts to show up, hoping that they do so while you're awake rather than at 3 AM.

B) Move to a blue city before the election. Is that inconvenient and expensive? Hell, yes. Does it beat being dead? Hell, yes.

What are you going to do?


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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:08 PM

42. Well, I ain't running.

I may send Herself to stay with her parents but I'm a Scots/Irish redneck.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:10 PM

44. So the answer is "yes".

To each their own.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:59 PM

31. Comrade Kalashnikov is not a bad ally to have when the SHTF

I'd get the 9mm first though.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:12 PM

45. That's my thinking.

My most recent training is with the 9mm - the assigned weapon of field-grade staff officers.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:44 PM

66. Why not both?

I give you the PSA AK-V 9mm:

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 08:45 AM

130. Pretty cool, too bad there isn't a left-handed version nt

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:00 PM

32. One day we are going to wish we had kept the ban in place.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:04 PM

37. Why do you assume that the police wouldn't provide protection...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:14 PM

48. Why would they?

If it comes to Trump attempting to seize power by claiming Biden’s victory as illegitimate, law enforcement is very likely to back him up. That’s the primary reason he has debased himself to win their support since 2015.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:57 PM

80. Congratulations: Trump has won already

I'm not talking ideology; I'm talking fomenting distrust of the entire civic structure. You seriously believe that local authorities are going to ignore their local leadership an obey orders from the Federal Government?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #80)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:20 PM

114. If it came down to it? Yes. Enough would.

Look how many Republican Sheriffs already refuse to enforce laws and orders they disagree with.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #114)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:37 PM

117. In which case: no point having a gun...

...you'll be outgunned, as it were, but overwhelming firepower.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #117)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:42 PM

118. No point?

Things get that bad and you’ll be wishing you had several.

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Response to PTWB (Reply #118)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:06 AM

121. Why?

MY City puts extreme limits on gun ownership, requiring clear evidence of a security need. I'm happy to keep it that way.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #121)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:10 AM

123. If we could keep it that way everywhere we'd be better off.

But that ship has sailed and at this point for the vast majority of the country.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #121)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 01:36 PM

142. Our City that gave Trump a CCW?

Our City where the PBA made their first Presidential endorsement ever, for Trump?

Our City where the lovely Commissioner Dermot Shea outright says "[S]ystems of government are literally cowards who won’t stand up for what’s right. They’re failing at every possible measure to be leaders and they throw it on the backs of the men and women of this police department. And curse them with one hand and then blame them with the other. How dare they. They have screwed this city up so much in a short period of time, it's gonna take some time to get our arms around it."

Our City where fat, racist old Brooklynites (nothing personal!) and Staten Islanders attack counterprotestors at their "BaCkThE BlUE" rallies, then get bundled away and escorted home by the NYPD?

Our City where the Sergeant's Union leader says "“We’re wiping away our history, and we’re painting Black Lives Matter signs in the streets. What they’re attacking is the fiber for what we believe in. They’re attacking law and order and authority. When they get past us, Joe, they will be in your studio taking control of the message. They will be in people’s homes taking control of their homes, running the subways, not letting children play in parks. The silent majority cannot sit by and be silent.”

I guarantee that there's a not-insignificant number of fat, racist old BK and SI'ers with a few pieces of illegal weaponry; and of course it's the NYPD that approves weapons permits - call me cynical but I suspect if the right type of person is making a request, "PROTECT MYSELF FROM ANTI-BLM-FA-OOGA-BOOGA/'civil unrest'" would be a perfectly valid security need.

Granted, I only sort of grew up here and haven't been here full-time but 10 years; still, it's pretty obvious the NYPD is a lost cause.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:38 PM

62. Because I grew up here.

Because I practice law here and know the local cops.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:08 PM

40. If you find yourself in a situation where you need 30 round mags, you really fucked up

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:40 PM

64. That's why Magpul invented 40 round mags and 60 round drums.

And unlilke most POS drums, the Magpuls actually work.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:08 PM

41. I'm practicing my Hail Trump salute and working on a beer belly.

I look like an old farmer and I think I can "pass".

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:09 PM

43. Given what we now know about the police, if you can be safe with it, might be good

If things ever do collapse to the point of violence, we have very few friends with weapons right now

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:12 PM

46. Yes.

The worst thing we can do is allow conservatives to monopolize law enforcement and gun ownership.

All responsible, eligible Democrats who feel comfortable owning a firearm should own a firearm.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:15 PM

50. I would go with something else

But that's just my opinion. AR is fine. But SKS would be more effective

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:17 PM

52. No, unless you like spending thousands for a dust-collecting prop.

Trump can refuse to accept defeat, but he would still be forcefully ejected from the White House. It won’t even get to that point. Trump can call for “armed resistance,” but he’ll just end up in jail and 99.99% of his armed followers are not willing to shoot anyone. This isn’t some banana republic with a military and government structure loyal to Trump.

However, let’s say a hypothetical Trump-installed Fascist government were installed. Secret police would just grab you when you went for a walk, or drag you out of your car in a few seconds. Even if you did somehow get away, the secret police would get you at some later point.

The best defense against a Fascist army is not allowing it to exist in the first place. At that point, it’s too late. Cherish your freedoms and be active politically - you’ll do more than a useless gun that will never be used in all situations.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:26 PM

55. Yes.

Assuming you aren't now or think you might become suicidal.

Other than that, yeah I think you should. There's no reason to stop at one either. Get an AR (be sure it's compatible with the NATO 5.56 rounds and not just the .223), get a pistol (I'd suggest the a .40 or .45 cal Glock, but 9mm rounds are plentiful), get a 30.06 and get a shorter 12 gauge.

I suggest that everyone should buy a gun (a .22 LR) and get comfortable handling and firing it. If after that they want to, I suggest they buy some more serious ones.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #55)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 02:24 PM

143. I'd recommend .308/7.62x51 over '-06

In a situation where you're actually going to have to use weapons, 308 is going to be more readily scroungable than 30-06.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #143)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 03:13 PM

148. Absolutely

I don't disagree.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:37 PM

61. Honestly, if trump's thugs go apeshit, I'll probably take cover with my armed buddies.

You'll probably be the go-to guy for other anti-trumpers as well. They'll need help too.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:39 PM

63. If you have a wife and children, focus on a bug out plan first.

Get them out first and fast to a safe zone.

If you need a gun to accomplish that task, then consider one.

Since you are former military, try to stay alive. You may be needed for military-style training for the rest of us.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:50 PM

70. Uh......

This is just disturbing.

"could do a lot of damage on my way down."

Please stay away from Assault rifles. Geez.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #70)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:03 PM

88. Not sure I understand.

If the brown shirts come to cleanse the community, is it better to go quietly?

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #88)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:00 PM

138. I'm not down with talking about human life

and taking out as many as I can, even if I find their politics horrible.

If brown shirts come for us, defending your life is fine. But it isn't happening now, as toxic as some of the boogaloo/maga movement may be. And speaking like this is just furthering the divide and dehumanizing people who think differently than us. I'm not down with that. Sorry/not sorry.



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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #70)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 09:24 AM

132. Good luck trying to buy an Assault rifle,

new ones have been banned for sale since 1986, there are still assault rifles in private hands, but those are tightly regulated and if one comes up for sale, there are hoops you have to jump through first before you can buy one, if you can even afford one.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:54 PM

78. I've never fired a gun in my life

Most of my adult life has been in NYC and its environs. Guns are very difficult to own and use in that locale, unless you're a criminal.

Regardless, I wasn't raised in a hunting/fishing/wilderness environment. However, I'm fundamentally agnostic about gun ownership. We live in a country that has more guns than people. We're never going to be able to regulate or control that proliferation.

Still, we've been living in our mountain house to stay isolated from the coronavirus. It's located in northeast rural Pennsylvania and it is most definitely pro-Trump.

Like you, I'm suddenly thinking of buying a couple of weapons for self-defense: A long gun and a hand gun. Of course, I will need to train with them.

I'm an artist and these thoughts disturb me.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 08:59 PM

81. Get off the ledge. Now.

Vote.
Peace out, man.
That is all.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:00 PM

84. I'm finally breaking down and buying a home defense rifle

I own a couple of .22s. They're tools.

I don't any illusions about how long I would last if push came to shove. I'm just not willing to be pushed too hard.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:01 PM

85. You should

They are probably the best for self defense. If I knew I was going to be in a shooting I would take a rifle. Buy some for your family too.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:02 PM

87. If things are actually that bad,

I would seek asylum in another country - seriously.

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Response to Disaffected (Reply #87)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:06 PM

90. Things are not that bad yet and may never be.

If things go bad, it will go bad quickly with no time to flee.

Besides which, Americans aren't welcome anywhere in the world.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #90)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:10 PM

91. you might not be liked

but your $$$$ are more than welcome.
You got to be a friend to get a friend. Don't be 'that guy' and stay low key.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #90)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:17 PM

92. Canada has a pretty open refugee policy.

But, the US probably doesn't qualify (yet) and the Covid thing is also problematical.

Still, all you have to do is walk across the border at an uncontrolled crossing point, surrender to the RCMP and you are in (until your refugee hearing and appeals are exhausted at least, which can take years).

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:05 PM

89. Don't feed the industry

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:28 PM

94. I'll stick with my M-14 and S&W .40 cal.

People like to tell me that the S&W means short and weak but it holds 15 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #94)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:41 PM

97. I hopped on the .40 S&W bandwagon intially, but with modern defensive loads I don't see any

advantage of it over the 9x19mm, which has less recoil and a bit more capacity.

That being said, .40 S&W remains an excellent choice, and I would never tell someone to change if that's what they prefer.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #94)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:42 PM

98. I trained with the M-14 as a cadet.

As I recall, a reliable weapon.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #94)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:52 PM

101. LOL, ok! nt

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Response to marie999 (Reply #94)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 03:30 PM

149. I prefer ammunition commonality myself

When I'm in a location where firearms ownership is permitted, I have a 1911 and a carbine in .45 - I can just keep a large stock of one caliber for both firearms.

Plus a stock of .308 for my target-spec AR-10, but that's entirely useless for self-defense...unless somebody's charging me from 300 yards

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:41 PM

96. It's for the children

I'm a war vet. Some may call me a hero. There's really no good reason to buy a gun. Don't become like our enemy!

There's more chance of a child or loved one being accidentally killed than the need to use it to defend yourself.

Just buy some wasp spray. It works as good as a stun gun and won't kill anybody. Those M16 bullets can go through 3 or 4 houses

killing anyone in there...not worth the risk. Trust me.

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:45 PM

99. I'm with you, Dolphin.

You're talking sense. Welcome to DU!

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Response to crickets (Reply #99)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 09:38 AM

135. He is not talking sense,

he very obviously doesn't know what the hell he's talking about when he says the M-16 round will go through 3-4 houses.

This is what I think about his assertion,

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:57 PM

102. Do *not* use wasp spray for self defense.

https://www.mattcanovi.com/wasp-spray-for-self-defense-a-dangerous-myth/


Those M16 bullets can go through 3 or 4 houses


http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html

No they don't. In fact, with some loads .223 rounds penetrated less than handgun rounds.

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:01 PM

105. I'm a cold war vet. I've never fired a government issued weapon except at the range.

You make a point about the risk of the M16 round. I think I'll stick with my shotgun. I could humble a few before they got to me.

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:01 PM

106. Wasp spray is useless- it is an urban myth that it will stop an attacker reliably

Those M16 bullets can go through 3 or 4 houses

Yeah, and I hear they will vaporize 3/4 of a 350 lb. wild boar

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 09:34 AM

134. It's pretty obvious you don't know shit about the M-16,

it most certainly WILL NOT go through 3-4 houses.

With a ridiculous statement like that, I question your so called war vet status.

I trained on numerous weapons, including the M-14 and the M-16, the M-14 round is much more powerful than the M-16 round and might go through 2 houses, the M-16 round is a much lighter round than the M-14 round and will be lucky to make it through 3 walls before it loses it's power.

If you're going to make such a statement, at least know what the hell you're talking about.

BTW, I retired from the Corps with 30+ years, so I do believe I know what the hell I'm talking about.

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Response to dware (Reply #134)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 02:46 PM

146. 5.56 will penetrate a lot more than 3 walls.

The Box O' Truth is an underrated but very handy site (and refreshingly apolitical, for a gun group). 5.56 tumbles pretty bad after the first one or two layers of sheetrock, and of course there's all manner of pipes, wires, framing, and whatnot that it could also hit, but plain wallboard isn't much resistance to a 5.56 - it'll clear 12 layers and keep on going. From personal experience, NATO-spec 7.62 will completely penetrate two well-built, wooden-walled cabins (they were slated for demolition, we were curious). .45ACP with hollowpoints is probably best, but you're still gonna penetrate at least to the next room.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth/
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-2-the-box-speaks-again/
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-12-insulated-walls/
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

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Response to Dancing_With_Dolphin (Reply #96)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 02:51 PM

147. Wasp spray is more or less harmless to humans. It's an urban myth that it's in any way effective.

The active ingredient is a class of chemicals called "pyrethroids", which are 2250 times less toxic to humans than insects.

Sure, the other ingredients in the spray might burn their eyes or something, but you're realistically just going to piss them off; they're far more likely take your wasp spray away and use the can to club you to death than to fall down and be rendered harmless. If you must use chemical weapons for defense get bear spray, it's quite effective (if illegal) to use on humans.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:50 PM

100. Get off the ledge and pack a bug-out bag for each of you...

Figure out a place to go and wait out trouble (if there is trouble — maybe it’s just hot air). Keep the car(s) gassed up and pointed in the right direction for departure. If you really feel you have to leave, you might take some time to peel off the bumper stickers.

See, I believe in Having A Plan. It makes me feel in control. I don't know that having a firearm would help, but that’s just me.

In my area you need a plan for wildfire evacuation. Rather than packing in advance, I just try to know where everything is, even in the dark. I have several laundry baskets whose sole purpose is to have a bunch of things thrown in them and be carried to the car. I have a box in the trunk of my car with a few necessities, too.

Off the ledge. Have A Plan.


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Response to Hekate (Reply #100)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:44 PM

112. A voice of reason in a sea of insanity.

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Response to c-rational (Reply #112)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:11 PM

113. Thank you kindly

I read the thread after I posted. SMH. There is a LOT of anxiety going around and no one is immune from this Perfect Storm.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #113)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:21 PM

115. You are most welcome, and you read 'the scene' correctly - there is much anxiety going around.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:57 PM

103. Poor choice of firearm for home protection.

There is not going to be a massive insurrection. Yeah, in a few places a few nuts may get rowdy, but they will be dealt with. They certainly aren’t going to come the homes of rando democrats.

I hunt. I own old but very reliable shotguns and a Modern deer rifle am good at to 300 yards. A 22 and one handgun I no longer need. There was a time when I did. Or thought I did.

My suburban neighborhood is very Peaceful and will not change after Biden wins.

If someone did come to my home to do me harm I figure my shotguns are good enough. Never really thought about it much.

But I don’t have kids and neither the wife nor I suffer from depression and have never been suicidal at all.

If you do buy a firearm make sure you buy a gun safe at the same time to prevent theft.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:11 PM

139. A shotgun with buckshot or slugs will over penetrate.

A frangible defense oriented .223 round will stop much sooner and the chance of injuring someone in another room is much lower.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:58 PM

104. Go big or go home



You are familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the rifle. Personally a 12 gauge is my go to for home defense. There may be a 9mm in the electronic safe near the bed along with a flashlight and cell phone.

If the mob come for ethnic cleansing and you are on "the list" you will go down if you are alone.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #104)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:03 PM

107. I'll raise your "Go big".

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #107)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:06 PM

108. Davy will keep Santa Anna from taking the Alamo...

of course there won't be an Alamo afterwards

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #108)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:40 PM

111. The Alamo is still there (mostly).

My memory from history is that Davy didn't leave the Alamo alive. The Alamo defenders had +/- 250 KIA. Santa Anna had +/- 500 WIA and KIA.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #111)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 11:52 PM

120. My reference was to Davy Crockett

the nuclear recoilless rifle which is what was pictured above. It launched a .02 kt warhead about 1-2 miles. While it was one of, if not the smallest, nuclear weapons I would not want to be that close when it detonated.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #104)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:07 PM

109. A howitzer is hard to store in the house.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Tue Sep 15, 2020, 10:34 PM

110. At least you have the option

It's tough living in NYC.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:06 AM

122. Feel free to leave...I'm happy with the gun restrictions here...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #122)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:14 AM

124. It's easier said than done

I have too much family and money here to leave at this time.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:27 AM

126. Here's a tidbit for you: In NYC, you are not allowed to possess a rifle or shotgun magazine of over

five rounds. So a Henry lever action rifle made in 1860 is illegal there.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:52 AM

128. I would move.

You will be outgunned and will more than likely die if a hot shooting war comes your way. That is assuming your area is overall really red.

Regardless of the outcome of the election, I cannot see myself ever moving back to the US unless there are massive, sweeping, systemic changes, changes that I cannot see gappening. More than likely I will renounce my citizenship as I am also not into double taxation. I am now at an income level where this is a reality, and I already pay a shedload here in Sweden. Fuck if the US is going to grab more, and especially as it is 100% foreign earned. I only lived in the US for 2 other years (see below for the first 18 months or so), and that was as a uni student. The US is the only remotely advanced nation on the planet that taxes foreign earned income.

My state of birth (I was born in Los Angeles and was moved back to London at less than 2 years of age by my UK citizen, non American parents) is burning like Hades and will only get worse as global.warming increases. Plus the country is in course for civil war within 20 years max, IMHO, regardless of who wins in 2020. A Rump steal, plus Rethug Senate hold, and a take back of the House would just speed that all up. As a mixed race black married lesbian, the US offers far more threats than benefits for me and my wife at this point. The quality of life jere is simply better on balance. 400-600 million guns on the US streets alone is damn near an a priori deal breaker. Rando, ultra violent, white power MAGAts are another.

Best of luck, whatever you choose.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 09:18 AM

131. Don't buy one, buy two.

Good luck on the ammo hunt!

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 09:31 AM

133. NO.NOPE. FUCK-A NO!

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 11:18 AM

137. I see this has already turned into a gun porn thread.

If you want an AR-15, go ahead and buy one. Ammo is hard to find right now, though.

However, unless you're planning to go outside and take on the crazies, you would be better off with a pump shotgun and a bunch of 00 buckshot rounds, frankly, if you're worried about protecting your home and family.

There are not going to be platoons of Trumpers going from door to door shooting people, though. That's not going to happen.

If you feel the need to arm yourself against the odd individual coming to harm you or your family, the 12-ga. shotgun will be your best bet.

If people come in force, nothing is going to protect you, frankly.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #137)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 12:18 PM

140. The AR is better than the 12 gauge by far.

Less penetration with defense rounds, more accurate, less recoil, more capacity.

I own both. A firearm is a tool - you wouldn’t use a sledgehammer to drive a finishing nail. Select the right tool for the job!

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Response to PTWB (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 01:31 PM

141. I disagree. I will not be going outdoors to defend my home.

Nobody will be coming in my home, either. Not if they hope to survive. I have a position in my home where I cannot be seen from outside, but from which I can defend all possible entry points.

As you say, the right tool for the job is important.

Bye now.

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 02:36 PM

145. Buy an AK-47 or better yet an Armored Tank with a fixed machine gun

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Response to TomSlick (Original post)

Wed Sep 16, 2020, 03:47 PM

151. After discussion with hosts ... LOCKING

Alert: belongs in gungeon (gun group)

It does not belong in General Discussion:

Statement of Purpose GD

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum

It belongs here:

Gun Control & RKBA (Group): Statement of Purpose
(Find it under Justice and Public Safety)

Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.


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