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Tue Jul 14, 2020, 06:58 AM

Question for the psych experts here: Given all the terrible things that Mary Trump

says about Donald Trump's early life, mainly a complete lack of parental love and nurturing, could he have become a different (better) person with counseling or was he a lost cause from the get-go?

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 07:10 AM

1. I am no expert, but I'm guessing that the essential thing would have been if he'd wanted to

become a better, or even different person.

It seems to me that the self understanding and the willingness to change would be essential.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 07:26 AM

2. That's a "the Chicken or the Egg" question

There was definitely something wrong with him from the get-go. Other people grow up in environments like that (his siblings, for instance) and don't turn into an abyss.

Whether counseling or a different environment would have made enough difference to compensate for those deficiencies, instead of exacerbating them like what actually happened, is unknowable. And it's possible that it wouldn't have made him better, just more adept at hiding it.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 07:31 AM

3. ive seen kids who were raised under horrid conditions turn out better....

...hes just evil.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 07:39 AM

4. I was raised in a severely dysfunctional family in the South

I was so messed up mentally that I just quit going to school at age 15- it wasn't a conscious decision to drop out, rather I just tuned out, and stayed home.

All during this- my sister got married (big wedding), and had a kid. No one noticed that I had not left my room in years.

I left home and took a job basically cleaning animal cages at a park.

I am now 56, married for the better part of 2 decades, and hold a double BS in religious studies and history, and a double masters in library and information science.

I work in a middle school and try to work with "tuned out students."

At some point- it's a decision for most people. Donald Trump had a chance-- much more of a chance than I did. He didn't have to live off 15 bucks a week for groceries. He had EVERY societal opportunity that money can buy.

He CHOSE.

There are some, particularly those born into extreme poverty, that I believe are lost at some point. Trump had a choice-- he could have left and gone to college in Europe easily.

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Response to essme (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:19 AM

7. So glad you were able to turn your life around.

People like you have made the world a better place. At some point, you made the choice to improve your life and be a positive influence on the people around you.

Donald is rotten from the inside, he seems to have nothing but venom in him.

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:22 AM

8. Thank you-- I still have constant running anxiety

from my youth. I have never felt like I "deserved" to have anyone even like me. I fake all that mess constantly. Years on the shrink's couch--- reading horoscopes--- Dr. Wayne Dyer, Louise Haye--- etc. It's hard.

I understand how Trump's childhood could make him feel empty-- I do. But, he had the means to turn that around and be a good person.

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Response to essme (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:52 AM

15. You have something that Trump has never had: empathy for others.

I think what sets Trump and people like him apart is his inability to feel emotions that most people have. He’s able to commit his atrocities without a second thought because he doesn’t think.

People like you, with a conscience, struggle through life; you think about the decisions you make and the words you say because you know they have an effect on other people. It’s a more difficult life to be a thoughtful, caring person than a cold, calculating one. The life you lead is a tribute to your inner strength and goodness.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 08:07 AM

5. The perfect storm...

Trump is the product of genetics and environment growing to blossom in an atmosphere of extreme wealth, privilege, and entitlement where he was indulged completely and held accountable for nothing. Then he grew to power in the fertile ground of conservative Republicanism which had been headed in his direction anyways for decades, and could appreciate his dark gifts for manipulating and controlling an undereducated, mean-spirited mob mentality...

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 08:16 AM

6. I am of the opinion that Cluster B disorders are entirely genetic.

They’re just born that way. Absent brain surgery, there’s nothing that can be done for them.

Roughly 1 in 8 humans suffers from a Cluster B personality disorder. In 2012, British scientists found a link between Cluster B disorders and a brain anomaly known as Cavum septum pellucidum (easily Wikiable). It’s also thought that the brain anomaly known as Cavum vergae (easily Wikiable) plays a role in the Cluster B disorders. These are not brain “defects.” If they were, they would likely have been wiped out of the human genome long ago. They’re anomalies. Evidently, we need these parasitic, lazy, sadistic, emotionally-retarded agents of chaos for something. What, I do not know.

But it appears that these disorders are genetic. Naturally, most people who have them were abused as children. They had to get the gene from somebody—either one or both of their parents had a Cluster B disorder, themselves, so we can assume that most people with Cluster B disorders were abused as children, but we can also assume, because the condition is genetic, that they can not change for the better. They can’t alter their own genetic code. In addition, tragically, the condition is progressive. They get worse over time. Trump is proof of that. They can only be marginalized and avoided. I certainly wouldn’t recommend making one of them President of the United States.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:24 AM

9. Only use I can think of for them would be fertilizer.

Thanks for the tips - looks like I'll be doing some reading today. My life has been ruined by a Clusterfuck B in the family.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930915/

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:26 AM

10. Probably more than one.

Cluster B disorders run in families, naturally—further proof that they are genetic.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:40 AM

11. Most definitely - but I only have to deal with one.

End of the genetic line in that person's case, which is a good thing. Likely got it from both sides; a double dose.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:48 AM

13. It's interesting.

I have two nephews who are completely healthy except for the fact that they are both infertile. Both their biological parents suffer from Cluster B disorders. My Cluster B-disordered ex-wife had trouble conceiving. Her mother had to take fertility drugs in order to conceive her. It’s as if nature has a built-in limit on how many of these monsters it will allow, but they tend to be the most seductive creatures on Earth. If nature didn’t limit their reproduction in some way, our species would have died out ages ago. We can’t all be lying, lazy, useless, sadistic, manipulative parasites. Somebody has to actually WORK in order for the species to survive.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:52 AM

14. I think you've nailed it.

Mercifully, there does seem to be a limit on the fertiity of these creatures. Based on the reading you pointed me toward, likely the pituitary is affected; that is the driver of all hormones in the body, including the ones essential to reproduction.

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Response to Laelth (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 10:01 AM

18. prenatal alcohol exposure

This study (among lots of other fascinating material) mentions prenatal alcohol exposure as a likely contributing cause. Very possible in the case I'm familiar with. Of course, alcohol use while pregnant probably also correlates with the parent's overall personality issues, so is not 100% independent of the genetic factors.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930915/

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 10:09 AM

19. Strange.

Of the many Cluster B-disordered people I know, none of them has addiction issues. They’re control freaks, and they tend to shy away from things that alter their innate, predatory, alert, observant, sadistic, and utterly aggressive mental state.

Those of us who have to live with them, however, often have addiction problems. Alcohol is a useful (and almost necessary) sedative.

-Laelth

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:45 AM

12. I'm an expert on being a patient receiving mental health treatment. My professional

mental health treatment began when I recognized that I needed help and requested to be taken to
the nearest hospital. There are cases where mental health treatment is forced on a person but the
best results happen for persons who who see treatment as their best option.

tRUMP has never had the benefit of either path to mental health and the rest is a too-well-known history. I think it's a waste of time to deal with the what-ifs regarding tRUMP. It'll take a lot of effort
just to deal with the reality involved...

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Response to abqtommy (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:53 AM

16. The only way America can get well is to purge the disease of Trumpism.

The Trumpists themselves are the pathogens.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2020, 09:54 AM

17. Trump told his son he bought him a puppy

When one of his sons was just a small child, he came home and told him that he'd bought him a puppy for his birthday, when the puppy didn't arrive he told his son that he just wanted to teach him a lesson that life isn't fair.

He's a full psychopath.

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