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Sat Jul 11, 2020, 06:44 AM

He can try and kick the shit out of law and order as much as he wants ...BUT



It is always darkest just before the dawn and every day as they get more desperate and they accelerate their far right coup against democracy, the more transparent their nasty becomes and ergo the less votes they will get from independents - they are in a vicious downward spiral of destruction - and in November 2020 I cannot see how they do not get trounced at the polls. And at that point - all of them need to have the law books they have ignored and tried to destroy thrown at them. Biff. Baff. Uppercut. Boom.

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Reply He can try and kick the shit out of law and order as much as he wants ...BUT (Original post)
Soph0571 Jul 11 OP
handmade34 Jul 11 #1
DownriverDem Jul 11 #14
empedocles Jul 11 #2
bucolic_frolic Jul 11 #3
tecelote Jul 11 #4
2naSalit Jul 11 #5
tecelote Jul 11 #17
LiberalFighter Jul 11 #18
2naSalit Jul 11 #20
Mr.Bill Jul 11 #29
Tommymac Jul 11 #24
csziggy Jul 11 #26
soldierant Jul 11 #31
ResistantAmerican17 Jul 11 #6
Soph0571 Jul 11 #9
plimsoll Jul 11 #10
ResistantAmerican17 Jul 11 #16
plimsoll Jul 11 #22
ResistantAmerican17 Jul 11 #23
MissB Jul 12 #38
plimsoll Jul 12 #39
warmfeet Jul 11 #7
Buckeyeblue Jul 11 #8
rateyes Jul 11 #11
sop Jul 11 #12
niyad Jul 11 #19
csziggy Jul 11 #27
Laelth Jul 11 #28
Ilsa Jul 11 #13
2naSalit Jul 11 #21
Mr.Bill Jul 11 #33
johnthewoodworker Jul 11 #15
Bob_in_VA Jul 11 #30
bdamomma Jul 11 #32
oasis Jul 11 #25
elleng Jul 11 #34
KPN Jul 11 #35
Yeehah Jul 11 #36
yuiyoshida Jul 12 #37

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 06:47 AM

1. we surely hope...

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:55 AM

14. Worries me too

I'm old enough to know that repubs will cheat, lie and suppress the vote to win. I'm white and disgusted with many white folks in our once great country. They aren't rich and think repubs are on their side. Many times I feel ashamed of these folks.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:07 AM

2. Latest polls v. traitortrump prez job approval gapping down last 2 weeks

Reuters - trump down 17

Economist - trump down15

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:30 AM

3. Post-Cheating Backup Plan - Impeachment 2.0, Dementia 4.1

No way the current situation will carry to 2024. No way. That is not optimism. That is fact.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:37 AM

4. If we decide to "look forward" and do not prosecute Trump...

We're just asking for it to happen again.

It's imperative that Trump ends up in jail to show that no one is above the law.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:48 AM

5. And all his enablers should at least be

banned from ever holding a public sector job whether elected or not.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 09:07 AM

17. Agreed 100%

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 09:16 AM

18. It needs to go further than that.

They need to be banned from benefiting from any of their work in government too. No lobbying, no side jobs involving the govt.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 09:20 AM

20. They should be stripped of the perks of retirement...

like expensive healthcare and all the things you mentioned.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:29 PM

29. Oh, they'll get free health care.

You get that in prison.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:25 AM

24. They need to be tried for Accessory to Murder

At the least.

McConnell, Collins, Cruz, Barr, Rethug Governors, & every damn one of the Republican's who voted not to Impeach or convict.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:37 AM

26. That's one of the good things about them blaming all their "coffee boys"

And letting them take the fall - it makes those low level people less likely to continue to enable people like this.

I'm old enough to remember Nixon's elections and how many of the low level "coffee boy" types kept doing dirty tricks over the decades and now are high level Republican operatives. I see the danger about letting the lesser supporters of the Republican crooks off without consequences. Every single one of the people who have worked to keep Trump and his cohorts in power and to enable his whims need to be tracked down and receive their punishment.

And as the Lincoln Project said about the current Republican higher ups, remember their names - not just the currently powerful but remember the names of every single low level Republican who have enabled this tyrant want to be. If we don't they will continue the Republican tradition of dirty tricks and violating the law to add to their power.

Just before I began writing this Scaramouche was on the Joy Reid Show. He's going to keep his face in the spotlight and keep the story going that Trump dumped him so that Scrarmouche can still influence people. He is not a good person simply because Trump dumped his ass - he is still the weasel that eagerly took a job from a known con artist and dictator wanna be. He reminds me of the young Roger Stone who was so happy to work for Richard Nixon.

This is the kind of person that we need to remember because they WILL reappear at some future point to try again to fuck up our country.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:46 PM

31. Agreed absolutely.

I think Joe is all about healing, and smart enough to realize that "letting go" isn't the same thing by a long shot. We will never be able to heal unless justice is done and seen to be done. Some of that is probably in his head already, and I think we can get it all through his head. He is not an idiot. Of course we may have to be loud.

Those of us willing to admit we want revenge might think about learning to soft-pedal that, however.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:49 AM

6. When this broken pathetic psychopath pardons himself...

It will have no effect on Vance’s NY state probes. Is that correct?

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Response to ResistantAmerican17 (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:00 AM

9. Yep... n/t

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Response to ResistantAmerican17 (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:29 AM

10. It won't be himself doing the pardoning.

It will be Pence. The question is only of timing. I'm pretty sure he'll lose, but it's still 4 months so we need to continue to be vigilant.

As for New York state charges, I'm not sure anything will come of it. Not because he won't be prosecuted, but because without the federal charges to worry about he'll be able to lawyer up enough to keep New York at bay. If that looks like it'll be trouble I don't doubt that there's a nice little ratline being built to get him somewhere safe from extradition on state level charges.

While I would love to see him punished for his crimes, I just don't see it happening in fact. He's a career criminal, I'm sure he's planned out escape routes to extradition proof safe harbors years ago.

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Response to plimsoll (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:59 AM

16. Hmmmmm.... as I scratch my chin pensively. I am conflicted

in that I hope you are wrong (Metaphorically , but fear you are on the money. Two follow Up questions and one affirmation if you don’t mind.
1. Wouldn’t pardoning himself be the ultimate power stroke by a weak, pathetic, feeble simp who craves dictatorial power?
2. Without the ability to bankrupt the NY legal system, like he threatens with contractors, employees, and family, wouldn’t his time honored strategy fail?

Your GOTV and stay vigilant comment is gold!!!

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Response to ResistantAmerican17 (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:05 AM

22. Gladly.

1. Wouldn’t pardoning himself be the ultimate power stroke by a weak, pathetic, feeble simp who craves dictatorial power?
Absolutely, but it isn't certain that it would actually work. This is another one of those cases were the SCOTUS might decide that Presidential powers are not the same as regal powers (Alito and Thomas will dissent naturally.)
2. Without the ability to bankrupt the NY legal system, like he threatens with contractors, employees, and family, wouldn’t his time honored strategy fail?
While the state of New York has the resources to outlast Trump, prosecutions often fail against large companies, and rich and powerful individuals. There is a cost/benefit consideration that the state will have to take into account, and frankly prosecutorial weakness in the past makes a vigorous prosecution of Trump look like prosecutorial misconduct. Weighing those items in the balance and the absolute certainty that some kind of GoFundMe campaign will be mounted to "Protect the President from the vengeful State of New York," I'm pretty sure Trump can hold off the New York state charges. Failing that, if it starts to look bad, I'm sure he has an escape plan and a safe harbor destination.


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Response to plimsoll (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:19 AM

23. Food for thought!

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Response to plimsoll (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 12, 2020, 04:40 AM

38. So will that make Biden #47?

If trump resigns on January 20th at 9 am, does that mean Pence becomes #46, ever so briefly?

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Response to MissB (Reply #38)

Sun Jul 12, 2020, 09:19 AM

39. That's my guess.

I don't see a clearer path for Trump to avoid incarceration.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:50 AM

7. K & R

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:54 AM

8. Not only should the family be prosecuted

2016 elections need to be thoroughly investigated. What broke and when. He needs to be proven an illegitimate president.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:35 AM

11. And Roger Stone won't visit him either.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:50 AM

12. This country needs a National Truth and Reconciliation Commission after Trump leaves office.

A court-like congressional restorative justice body has to be assembled, whether Trump is prosecuted, or not. Every single misdeed that has been covered up must be made public. All hidden documents must be revealed: tax returns, financial information, grand jury testimony kept secret, redacted portions of Mueller Report, intelligence reports about Russian activities, everything. All Trump's henchmen would be required to give testimony, with amnesty from both civil and criminal prosecution, but under penalty of perjury if they don't tell the truth.

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Response to sop (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 09:18 AM

19. Absolutely agree.

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Response to sop (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 11:53 AM

27. That is a great idea - and Trump cannot plead the Fifth if he has been pardoned

He CAN incur multiple Contempt of Congress charges if he refuses to appear or to provide subpoenaed documents as well as you say, penalty of perjury.

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Response to sop (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 04:29 PM

28. I would support that. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:51 AM

13. Can he pardon people for crimes they have not been prosecuted

and convicted for?

Can he pardon people for crimes they haven't committed yet? (That's damn scary.)

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 09:25 AM

21. I didn't think that was possible...

I hope I'm not wrong! And I think it's also not possible to pardon someone in order to cover up a crime you committed, wasn't that what we head during the Mueller investigation?

And how can someone who has not been charged of committing a crime be absolved from legal address?

We need answers. Perhaps Neal Katyal and others will tell us about it in coming days.


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Response to Ilsa (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:59 PM

33. Yes.

Gerald Ford did that with Nixon. And Bush Sr. did that for a bunch of the Reagan gang.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:59 AM

15. Cat grabber will challenge the election results and use Barr to do it.

He will claim massive voter fraud with the Chinese as the villains assisting the evil Joe Biden. They will send the election to the courts. Cat grabber is too criminally exposed to allow the DOJ to fall into democratic hands. If it appears that his failure to steal the election is doomed, then he will resign with a Pence pardon prior to the end of his term.

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Response to johnthewoodworker (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 07:33 PM

30. He's out...

if Biden wins. No matter what he does. His term as President ends at 12:00 noon January 21, 2021. So saith the Constitution. At 12:01pm either Biden is sworn in or the Speaker of the House becomes President. Trump's term is over. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

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Response to Bob_in_VA (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 08:55 PM

32. Welcome to DU

or he will deal with all of us on the streets again. Bunker boy will go down.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 10:26 AM

25. JAIL

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 11:17 PM

34. Thanks for 'It is always darkest just before the dawn,'

as Dad said it during hard times. (He had many.)

Hope you are right.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 11:20 PM

35. Thank you Soph. I have a new favorite gif.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sat Jul 11, 2020, 11:21 PM

36. This is my mindset

Trump and his cronies are GOING DOWN HARD.

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