America has no idea of what a disaster we created in Iraq

[sad sally]

Seems so far from reality when the President told soldiers that the country they left behind is "an extraordinary achievement."

Post-American Iraq by the Numbers - Posted on 12/14/2011 by Juan Cole
----
Because the US media focuses on personalities instead of on social realities, they find it easy to go on interviewing Dick Cheney (who should be in jail), rather than reporting on what exactly Iraq looks like. If we examine some basic social statistics, the reasons for which American Iraq is not considered a model by other Arabs becomes blindingly obvious. For one thing, Iraq still suffers from a steady drumbeat of violence, with regular bombings and other attacks. Indeed, the monthly death toll in political and guerrilla violence for Iraqis is broadly similar to that in Afghanistan, an active war zone!

Moreover, the American public still for the most part has no idea what the United States did to that country, and until we Americans take responsibility for the harm we do others with our perpetual wars, we can never recover from our war sickness, which drives us to resort to violence in international affairs in a way no other democracy routinely does.

Population of Iraq: 30 million.

Percentage of Iraqis who lived in slum conditions in 2000: 17
Percentage of Iraqis who live in slum conditions in 2011: 50
Number of the 30 million Iraqis living below the poverty line: 7 million.
Number of Iraqis who died of violence 2003-2011: 150,000 to 400,000.
Orphans in Iraq: 4.5 million.
Orphans living in the streets: 600,000.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/12/post-american-iraq-by-the-numbers.html?du

[Sabriel]

1. Not to mention the hideous birth defects.

Last edited Sun Jan 8, 2012, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Those will last generations.

[Gregorian]

5. The halflife of Depleted Uranium is 400,000 years if I recall correctly.

A crime of the worst magnitude.

[Igel]

12. Off by orders of magnitude.

Which means, of course, that the radiation risk is also off by orders of magnitude.

The radioactive iodine I was given with a half-life measured in hours was much more dangerous than the stuff with a half-life measured in days.

[Gregorian]

14. That's right. It's 4 billion years.

[ret5hd]

58. So you don't mind if we store some in your closet?

We've got way too much, and are kinda looking for someplace.

[ManiacJoe]

13. Radioactivity is not the problem with DU.

The problem is that it is a heavy metal, like lead and mercury.

[Gregorian]

15. We're only talking about ingestion. You're right. We're all correct.

It's the problem with Fukushima as well. Most people miss this crucial point.

[wakemewhenitsover]

47. I'm unfamiliar with this issue in Iraq. What is the source of depleted uranium in Iraq? n/t

[Gregorian]

48. Armor piercing munition.

It's a kind of bullet that is made of depleted Uranium that goes through thick steel, and then essentially explodes once it is through. That's my understanding of it.

Here's the explanation- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Ammunition

[wakemewhenitsover]

52. Jeez. ty for the info.

What a fuck-up, from start to finish.

[Major Nikon]

59. Exactly

There's little doubt that there's been many times more lead deposited in the country mostly from small arms bullets, so why all the attention on DU while lead is being ignored?

[The Magistrate]

2. Indeed, Ma'am: A Cock-Up Of Monumental Proportion

[Pacafishmate]

3. The bigger problem is that America doesn't care.

[RKP5637]

8. Yes, sadly IMO that is so true. For many, the war was really out of

sight and out of mind. Most were not affected by the war in the least, hence, I think it's off most Americans radar screen, and MSM does little to focus on the horror of the war. Basically, we destroyed a functioning country.

[sad sally]

40. Media AWOL in exposing Iraq War’s years of ineptitude

The U.S. war in Iraq ended just before Christmas, and if you blinked you probably missed it.

TV news coaxed some seasonal sentiment out of the troops getting home for the holidays, but the Sunday-morning talk shows — where news of consequence is usually autopsied — barely noticed. The Beltway sages had weightier matters to discuss, such as the Gingrich ascendancy and the latest congressional standoff.

The silence was understandable because the topic is so awkward. The Iraq war wasn’t a defeat, like Vietnam. But it wasn’t a win either: Saddam Hussein is long gone, but the strategic menace the invasion was meant to thwart was bogus, the installation of democracy seems shaky at best, and the country seems on the verge of tearing itself apart again.
----
Our country isn’t unique in making war needlessly, but we may be unique in our insouciance. Attention really should be paid. After all, destroying another country is a big deal. Between 105,000 and 130,000 Iraqi civilians died violently, and half a million more were lost to degraded infrastructure, lousy healthcare and other miseries caused by years of murderous strife uncorked by the U.S. invasion. Some two million Iraqis are now refugees, and hundreds of thousands of ordinary lives have been mutilated.

You’d think some sort of examination is in order: Congressional hearings? A truth and reconciliation commission? At least, an extended segment on 60 Minutes?

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/01/2567324/media-awol-in-exposing-iraq-wars.html#storylink=cpy?du

[RKP5637]

42. Thanks, excellent article. As usual, the media fails this country miserably.

[Solly Mack]

31. +1

[joshcryer]

4. Glad Juan Cole is welcome at DU again. Excellent piece illustrating just how horrific...

...Bush's Iraq War was to the Iraqi people. I am glad that Obama did not force the Iraqi's hands and kept his campaign promise to leave Iraq, because as tonights debates showed, the Republicans don't care about what the Iraqi people feel or want, and McCain very likely would've forced our imperialist troops on them for another decade.

[unkachuck]

6. K&R....God will punish us....n/t

[Old and In the Way]

7. A truly shameful chapter in our American history.

If there was justice in this world, Bush, Cheney, Wolfiwicz, Rumsfield, Pearle, et al would be at the Haaqe pleading for their worthless lives.

[tabatha]

9. The Bagdad Burning Blog still exists

It was mentioned in one of the comments:

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

[Skittles]

10. and NO ONE will be held accountable

remember, Obama said we all need to "LOOK FORWARD"

[Solly Mack]

32. I think about that everyday and I do mean every single day. That they got away with it.

The lies, the trumped up evidence, the invasion, the abuses of office, the torture & other war crimes....they got away with it all.

[Tsiyu]

55. I know, I do as well

My dear old dad and I often discuss politics, and he brought up the fake invasion of Iraq yesterday - with disgust.

"Bush lied! He lied through his teeth and look what it cost us and the people of Iraq," he said.

It feels like such a crime and a sin, that all of us in America can never wash clean. It's done and it's horrible, all perpetrated so a few of Cheney's and Bush's cronies could make a frickin' fortune.

And those SOB's run around free as birds.

[Skittles]

63. meaning it can, and will, happen again

[Solly Mack]

66. Yep. What's to stop them? Certainly not fear of prosecution.

[G_j]

11. K&R!!

[T S Justly]

16. K&R nt)

[AnotherMcIntosh]

17. "until we Americans take responsibility for the harm we do others with our perpetual wars" WE?

"Our" perpetual wars?

[fujiyama]

18. Useful stats

that totally debunk neocon idiots that claim the war was a success. Even if it had been a success, it still wouldn't have justified the massive waste of lives and resources this horror has brought about. And with the constant bloodshed and the worse off living conditions, this ranks right up there with Vietnam (the only major difference is that this conflict didn't cost nearly as many American lives due largely to military technology).

[stevenleser]

19. People really ought to stop using the term 'perpetual wars'. It is historically naive

What has been going on since 2001, or 11 years, pales in comparison to history's longest wars. To wit:

19 years - Vietnam (not just our part in it)
21 years - Second Northern War - (Sweden vs Russia, Denmark/Norway & Saxony Poland)
27 years - Peloponnesian War
30 years - Thirty Years' war (Various european powers re: Catholicism vs Protestantism)
31 years - Achinese War (Dutch vs Aceh Indonesian peoples)
32 years - Wars of the Roses (English civil wars)
36 years - Civil war in Guatemala
43 years - Punic Wars (Rome vs Carthage)
51 years - Greco-Persian Wars
116 years - Hundred years war (between England and France)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Calling our wars 'perpetual' in the backdrop of this history of mankind makes one seem silly.

[Nostradammit]

20. When will the "War on Terror" be over?

[stevenleser]

21. Long before the word perpetual is appropriate. nt

[Nostradammit]

22. And when will that be?

[stevenleser]

23. See post 21. (note, this will be my response going forward) nt

[Nostradammit]

24. So you can't tell me when the "War on Terror" will be over?

[stevenleser]

25. You're the one with the name Nostradammit. You tell me. P.S., see post #21

[Nostradammit]

30. It's perpetual. By design.

I'm surprised someone as smart as you are can't see that.

[Maven]

49. Mighty clever. You've got a PNAC for this.

[bvar22]

37. The War on Terror will be over...

...when we capture their capital city,
and disarm their uniformed army.

I will continue until we do so.




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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[bvar22]

36. We are referring to the "Perpetual State of WAR".

Please list those years that the USA has NOT been "at WAR" since 1939.
Don't forget the "Cold WAR" and the Covert WARS in Latin America.

Thanks!

"We have ALWAYS been at WAR with EastAsia!"

[barbtries]

26. the death toll must be much higher

if you go by the numbers above, and only one parent of each of the orphans died, each of the 400,000 would have had to have orphaned 10 children. check my math but as i read this the numbers do not add up. would there have been that many natural deaths in that time frame? i don't know.
yeah. will we ever admit that Iraq was a travesty and a crime and we should never been there?

[eridani]

27. The Lancet estimated excess deaths to be a million or so

They counted people who died because they couldn't get treatment in a hospital that was blown up, or people dying from contaminated water due to treatment plants being blown up as well as people dying in direct violent acts.

[barbtries]

29. all victims of the violence

we wrought on their country.

[bvar22]

38. And THAT figure does NOT include the 1/2 MILLION children killed by the "sanctions" ....

...during the Clinton Administration.
The number WAS confirmed by Clinton's Sec of State Madeleine Albright:

If THAT doesn't chill you to you toes and make you nauseous,
seek help.




[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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[cpwm17]

65. This infamous video was well known in the ME

And the sanctions are partly what provoked 9-11.

Madeleine Albright is one evil lady.

[sad sally]

39. Here's a site that's been documenting the death in Iraq, and no in my lifetime I don't expect

any leader to stand up and admit a mistake of this magnitude.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/?du

[barbtries]

50. it says 114,000 +

as a high number. how does that translate to 4.5 million orphans.

[Octafish]

28. War wasn't my idea.

It did benefit one class of individual. A minor clerk in their employ said: "Money trumps peace."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Octafish/150

[sad sally]

41. How right you are - ask these corporations how well they've done with war

1. Boeing – United States of America
($28,050,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)
2. Northrop Grunmman – United States of America
($27,590,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)
3. Lockheed Martin – United States of America
($26,460,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)
4. Raytheon – United States of America
(19,800,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)
5. General Dynamics – United States of America
($16,570,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)
6. L-3 Communications – United States of America
($8,970,000,000 in military equipment sales annually)

[midnight]

60. And I suppose they received a tax break on top those outrages profits....

[MH1]

33. Agreed.

But the disaster started long before Obama and at least 98% of the troops who Obama was talking to.

I don't know his exact words but I'm sure they were intended to be morale-building for the troops, not necessarily a statement of historical accuracy.

The disaster started at least as early as when Poppy Bush decided to foment a war there. Everything else afterward has been a choice between bad options. Of course, George the Lesser took probably the absolutely WORST option possible.

[sad sally]

43. You're right, it was intended to be upbeat for the military, and it's now part of the President's

legacy in the history books. From the transcript:

Today, I’ve come to speak to you about the end of the war in Iraq. Over the last few months, the final work of leaving Iraq has been done. Dozens of bases with American names that housed thousands of American troops have been closed down or turned over to the Iraqis. Thousands of tons of equipment have been packed up and shipped out. Tomorrow, the colors of United States Forces-Iraq -- the colors you fought under -- will be formally cased in a ceremony in Baghdad. Then they’ll begin their journey across an ocean, back home.

Over the last three years, nearly 150,000 U.S. troops have left Iraq. And over the next few days, a small group of American soldiers will begin the final march out of that country. Some of them are on their way back to Fort Bragg. As General Helmick said, “They know that the last tactical road march out of Iraq will be a symbol, and they’re going to be a part of history.”

As your Commander-in-Chief, I can tell you that it will indeed be a part of history. Those last American troops will move south on desert sands, and then they will cross the border out of Iraq with their heads held high. One of the most extraordinary chapters in the history of the American military will come to an end. Iraq’s future will be in the hands of its people. America’s war in Iraq will be over.
---
Policymakers and historians will continue to analyze the strategic lessons of Iraq -- that’s important to do. Our commanders will incorporate the hard-won lessons into future military campaigns -- that’s important to do. But the most important lesson that we can take from you is not about military strategy –- it’s a lesson about our national character.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/us/politics/obamas-speech-to-troops-at-fort-bragg.html?pagewanted=all?du

[Zorra]

34. It is/was an invasion/conquest/occupation conducted solely to increase the wealth and

power of the 1%.

They are sociopaths and regard human beings as nothing but milk cows that can be used and slaughtered in their service whenever and wherever they wish.

Occupy

[Athame]

35. This needs to be read and understood

We have no right at all to claim any sort of victory. We should be hanging our heads in shame.

[The Wizard]

44. If we are true to our creed

The entire Bush cartel would be headed to Iraq in chains with a one day supply of cigarettes and blindfolds.

[sad sally]

45. From President Obama's speech to Fort Bragg troops:

Policymakers and historians will continue to analyze the strategic lessons of Iraq -- that’s important to do. Our commanders will incorporate the hard-won lessons into future military campaigns -- that’s important to do. But the most important lesson that we can take from you is not about military strategy –- it’s a lesson about our national character.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/us/politics/obamas-speech-to-troops-at-fort-bragg.html?pagewanted=all?du


"a lesson about our national character"...says it all.

[NNN0LHI]

46. And it won't accurately be covered in our kids school history books either

About like Vietnam is covered now I imagine.

Don

[Texasgal]

51. It's all so damn sad...

All of the humans affected.

[xchrom]

53. Du rec. Nt

[Fumesucker]

54. Umm.. It was indeed an extraordinary achievement..

Extraordinarily fucked up, but extraordinary nonetheless.

[DCBob]

56. I think the only thing good that came from all of it is that Saddam Hussein is gone.

The rest of it was most likely a waste.

[sad sally]

57. From 2003...then forward eight years later to 2011

Sep26-03

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Most residents of Baghdad say that ousting Saddam Hussein was worth the hardships they've endured since then, says a Gallup poll that shows they are divided on whether the country is worse off or better off than before the U.S. invasion.

Two-thirds, 67 percent, say they think that Iraq will be in better condition five years from now than it was before the U.S.-led invasion. Only 8 percent say they think it will be worse off.

But they're not convinced that Iraq is better off now - 47 percent said the country is worse off than before the invasion and 33 percent said it is better off.

...

The survey found that 62 percent think ousting Saddam was worth the hardships they have endured since the invasion. In the five months since coalition forces defeated Saddam and his armies, Iraq has faced continuing violence, electrical outages, job shortages and civil unrest.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_POLL?SITE=PAPIT&SECTION=HOME http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-6387.html?du

then from September 6, 2011 (antiwar.com, the website DU bans links from):

The latest is a piece on Iraqis’ PTSD: present-traumatic stress disorder. They can’t leave their homes without worrying they won’t come back. Constant bombings and shootings — some 20 a day on average in the country — maintain civilians in a state of chronic terror. Our Margaret Griffis documents several to dozens of Iraqis killed and wounded every day in the country’s low rumble of violence — and these are just the ones that make it into the papers. The controversy for AP reporter Lara Jakes is that Iraq is indeed worse, by far, than it was under the last years of the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein.

[roamer65]

61. The real disaster is coming... a regional ME war followed by WW3.

Iraq will just be a sideshow to was is coming.

[MilesColtrane]

62. Just wait til the government falls.

I still believe civil war is inevitable in Iraq.

George Bush ripped the lid off of Hell there and I'm afraid that it's not going back in the can.

[Swede]

64. A 3 way civil war may erupt,ala Lebanon but magnitudes bigger.

Turkey will get dragged in,Iran will join in. The middle east will erupt.

[deconstruct911]

67. DU Iraq

Part 7

[Bobby S]

68. Some of us do

Really screwed the pooch.