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Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:04 PM

 

How does California plan on enforcing mandatory mask wearing?

Does Newsom want people to hate cops even more than they already do right now?? Misdemeanor for not wearing a mask??

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday ordered all Californians to wear face coverings while in public or high-risk settings, including when shopping, taking public transit or seeking medical care, following growing concerns that an increase in coronavirus cases has been caused by residents failing to voluntarily take that precaution. Newsom’s order comes a week after Orange County rescinded a requirement for residents to wear masks and as other counties across California are debating whether to join other local jurisdictions in mandating face coverings. The Newsom administration did not address how the new requirement will be enforced or if Californians who violate the order will be subject to citations or other penalties.

“Simply put, we are seeing too many people with faces uncovered — putting at risk the real progress we have made in fighting the disease,” Newsom said in a statement. “California’s strategy to restart the economy and get people back to work will only be successful if people act safely and follow health recommendations. That means wearing a face covering, washing your hands and practicing physical distancing.”

Until now, state public health officials had only recommended that Californians wear the face coverings which, if worn by someone with the virus, have been shown to decease chances of spreading it to others. The Sacramento Bee on Wednesday first reported that the Newsom administration was considering a statewide face covering requirement.

Newsom’s order comes a week after Orange County rescinded a requirement for residents to wear masks and as other counties across California are debating whether to join other local jurisdictions in mandating face coverings. The Newsom administration did not address how the new requirement will be enforced or if Californians who violate the order will be subject to citations or other penalties.

Under state law, residents who violate the new requirement could be charged with a misdemeanor and potentially face a financial penalty, according to a representative for the Newsom administration. However, officials have shied away from enforcing other statewide coronavirus mandates with similar actions, choosing instead to encourage compliance and educate residents about the benefits of safeguards against spread of the virus.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-18/california-mandatory-face-masks-statewide-order-coronavirus-gavin-newsom

47 replies, 1427 views

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply How does California plan on enforcing mandatory mask wearing? (Original post)
ansible Jun 2020 OP
TheBlackAdder Jun 2020 #1
tinrobot Jun 2020 #2
rufus dog Jun 2020 #4
mike_c Jun 2020 #3
struggle4progress Jun 2020 #5
dumbcat Jun 2020 #6
Ex Lurker Jun 2020 #8
dumbcat Jun 2020 #10
former9thward Jun 2020 #20
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #23
Caliman73 Jun 2020 #26
dumbcat Jun 2020 #34
Caliman73 Jun 2020 #41
Hekate Jun 2020 #28
maxsolomon Jun 2020 #7
Codeine Jun 2020 #9
dumbcat Jun 2020 #11
Codeine Jun 2020 #13
dumbcat Jun 2020 #15
Codeine Jun 2020 #16
dumbcat Jun 2020 #18
unc70 Jun 2020 #24
dumbcat Jun 2020 #35
Hekate Jun 2020 #29
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #25
Hekate Jun 2020 #30
dumbcat Jun 2020 #33
Hekate Jun 2020 #36
dumbcat Jun 2020 #38
dumbcat Jun 2020 #31
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #39
dumbcat Jun 2020 #42
SlogginThroughIt Jun 2020 #40
drray23 Jun 2020 #12
dumbcat Jun 2020 #17
tinrobot Jun 2020 #21
dumbcat Jun 2020 #32
tinrobot Jun 2020 #43
dumbcat Jun 2020 #44
NutmegYankee Jun 2020 #45
hunter Jun 2020 #37
JI7 Jun 2020 #14
hunter Jun 2020 #19
Hekate Jun 2020 #22
intrepidity Jun 2020 #27
Retrograde Jun 2020 #46
ecstatic Jun 2020 #47

Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:15 PM

1. NJ has mandatory masks if you want to go into any place of business. It's working out well.

.

After the initial flare up, things are coming under control now. NY and NY were the first main infection states.

.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:18 PM

2. We'll turn it into a fashion statement.

We're good at that.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:24 PM

4. And it allows people like me to be an asshole if someone isn't wearing a mask

 

I have one in my car at all times, 70 plus percent of the time I forget, going into home depot, going to pick up food. In each case I turn around or stop short, put the friggen mask on, and do my business.

NOT THAT HARD!!!!!

And I do stare down people for not wearing masks.

It is really simple, don't be an asshole!

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:23 PM

3. Our county public health officer mandated masks weeks ago.

Most people wear them in public without being told, at least here in rural Northern California. We don't go out much but the places we do go, like grocery stores, generally require masks for entry. Can't speak for anywhere else.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:32 PM

5. It's the same as with all other laws: most people comply, and you stop the egregious violators

Something can work well without working percectly

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:34 PM

6. So far no one has answered the question in the OP

I wish this would be discussed. It may apply in other states also.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:40 PM

8. If they start charging misdemeanors for masks

At the same time they're dropping misdemeanor charges against protestors, the right will go apeshit.

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Response to Ex Lurker (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:51 PM

10. In order to charge and punish (convict) , fine, jail them of a misdemeanor

Don’t they have to be arrested, arraigned, tried, sentenced, etc.? Who is going to do all that?

A group of cops in a Trader Joe’s or Macy’s taking down the mask scofflaws, handcuffing them and hauling them to the paddy wagon? With all the cell phones recording the video. You think the cops are going to do that? Now?

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 10:42 PM

20. No, and everyone knows it.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:07 AM

23. Same way they handle speeding.

Ticket, show up in court - or waive your right to challenge and pay the fine + court costs. If you have too many tickets, you lose the right to waive the court hearing.

Not like we haven't used tickets to enforce misdemeanor offenses before.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:26 AM

26. You get a citation, then you have to appear in court. No arrest needed.

No need for any handcuffs. You don't wear a mask, you get a ticket. Likely you will get a warning first to find your mask and put it on.

Only assholes will resist and cause a scene.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #26)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 11:15 AM

34. Why does no one think this through?

How is the cop going to give a citation? How does he know the person's name? If the person the cop stops for not wearing a mask tells him he doesn't want to wear a mask and walks away, how does the cop give him a citation? He can't. So now the cop has to decide to escalate the situation and detain (and usually cuff) the perp. Cameras are rolling. Abolish the police!

And yes, only assholes will resist and cause a scene, but I believe there are a lot more than a few of them, especially in Trumpie areas, and California has some.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:31 PM

41. Probably because we don't think like a scofflaw.

You are imagining the worst case scenario right off the bat.

Why don't you just wait and see how this happens before dooming it?

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 02:30 AM

28. My answer downthread is: social shaming & signs on business entrances will do the most

I don't think you need to call the cops unless someone is threatening you.

People bitched about their God-given right to smoke cigarettes until the rest of us simply made it socially unacceptable to have smoke blown in our faces. Sure there were laws passed -- but all the laws did, imo, was to give non-smokers the license to say, "Actually I do mind." And I say this as a non-smoker who used to carry matches in my purse in college, and also bought an ashtray for my apartment.



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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:37 PM

7. Summary execution for violators.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:47 PM

9. Suck it up, cupcakes.

 

Sick unto death about people whining about masks. It’s nothing. Deal.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 08:58 PM

11. So, how would you enforce it?

There are people that don’t want to. You think cops will arrest and cuff them? What if they are black and resist arrest? Is that SF cop gonna get a SWAT team? Now?

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 09:21 PM

13. Arrest them?

 

You write them a ticket and send them on their way. They’ll pay it or they won’t. Nobody’s going to be jailed over this.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 09:56 PM

15. He writes a ticket? For a misdemeanor?

That maybe works for a Traffic citation. So, a cop tells a scofflaw he is going to issue him a ticket and asks for ID. The scofflaw tells him to FOAD and walks away. What does the cop do? Arrest him? Now you’re back to the scuffle and handcuffs and resisting arrest, all being recorded by other scofflaws. The scofflaw (resistor?) fights the cop and struggles. Cop does what? He’s thinking he doesn’t want to be suspended and on the evening news.

You have to think this through from several perspectives.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 09:57 PM

16. You're worrying about nonsense.

 

Most people will comply. A handful of shitbirds won’t. Nobody fucking cares.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 10:03 PM

18. So you let the scofflaws go?

They certainly won’t care.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:08 AM

24. No, just keep them from stores, etc without a mask

Sort of like getting people to wear their seat belts. Or to follow the rules about smoking, etc. Having it as a rule is not perfect, but is surprisingly effective.

Locally, people seemed to have become lax about mask wearing. Recently, our county joined others in requiring masks in public. Today I saw only one person without a mask.

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Response to unc70 (Reply #24)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 11:24 AM

35. Keeping them from stores is a good point and

Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

should be effective.

Our local grocery chain in central Texas had a policy of requiring the customers to wear masks in their stores. Just yesterday I read an announcement that they were cancelling that policy because their employees at the doors trying to enforce it were receiving too much verbal and even physical abuse. The local police in our town said that they didn't have the manpower to station an officer at every place of business to enforce such policies.

We are going to do our weekly grocery trip tomorrow. We'll see how many people are wearing masks. It used to be over half.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #18)


Response to dumbcat (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:11 AM

25. Are you raising the same questions about speeding tickets?

Parking tickets?

Stop trying to discourage using the law to keep COVID under control. You are aware that COVID has killed far more more people than traffic accidents this year, right? If we can enforce safe driving rules with tickets, we can enforce public health safetyrules the same way.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 02:36 AM

30. Someone is really anxious about the coming police state, I guess

Or just trying to stir things up. It's a bit strange.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 11:06 AM

33. It's partly that, and partly the opposite

I worry both about the coming police state, and the coming anarchy. The issue in the OP was about making mask wearing mandatory. Making it a misdemeanor not to wear one. People like us would expect it to be enforced. People like Trumpers will be expected to resist, and there are more than a few. So now, with all the defund the police, fuck the police, abolish the police, cell phone videos and prosecution of cops, I have to wonder, like the OP, how this is going to be enforced.

I've seen a lot of flippant answers on this thread about "tickets". That requires identification. A refusal to provide ID starts a confrontation. Now what? I'm surprised so few here want to think this through.

If asking for people to think is "stirring things up", i plead guilty. Maybe that is strange.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:07 PM

36. How did you react to the no-smoking ordinances? My post about that is dead serious...

Smokers pissed and moaned for years about the infringement on their liberty, but times had changed and it was a matter of public health. Smokers finally got over themselves, didn't they? (Altho tobacco companies came up with a new, even more addictive, device but that's another conversation.)

Our biggest problem right now with facial coverings is the Mad King in the White House. He uses this and everything else as fuel for culture wars, and the fact that it is his cultists who are going to get sick and become super-spreaders in Tulsa bothers him not at all.

We don't have to play his games, we just have to keep our heads on straight. Support or pressure your local government, as needs dictate. Wear your own facial covering. Act like an adult and avoid people who don't. Support businesses that require customers to comply with this new public health measure -- show them you care.

No Shoes
No Shirt
No Mask
No Service

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Response to Hekate (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:23 PM

38. I didn't. I didn't smoke.

And it was a different time. And cops were different.

But, I yield.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 10:52 AM

31. Tickets? I'm surprised you don't see the difference

A cop gives a speeding ticket to a driver. He can do that because he has (and can) demanded the driver's ID and gotten all his info. The cop also has the vehicle license info and registration for ID. If the driver refuses to hand over his license, what usually happens?

A parking ticket is based on the registration info on the vehicle. ID is available.

So a cop encounters a group of young people who are mask scofflaws at the park. He demands their ID so he can give them tickets. They tell him to FOAD and walk away. A bunch of bystanders pull out their smart phones and start the videos.

You know the law. Imagine you're the cop. What do you do now? How do you give them a ticket?

Do you see the dilemma?

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #31)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:23 PM

39. So because some speeders evade the law, we should stop enforcing the speed limit -

Same issue.

What about peope who are jaywalking? In public parks after the park closes? riding bicycles on streets in places where it is prohibited? Littering?

Do you see how silly you are being? There are hundreds of misdemeanors that pose the same issue you believe is fatal to this solution.

That a law is not perfectly enforceable is not a reason to just toss our hands in the air and say, "Oh well, I guess millions more will just have to die."

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #39)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:44 PM

42. I never said that!

I think you and others are getting me all wrong. I WANT the law enforced. It's a good law. The question posed in the OP was, in the current anti-cop atmosphere, HOW is the law going to be enforced. The most common answer was TICKETS. Which has other issues.

So anyway, I yield. The answer is that the law will usually be enforced, and sometimes not. Works for me.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:26 PM

40. ohhhh so your one of those

 

One of those laws and rules and ordinances don’t work so why have them types eh?

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 09:18 PM

12. That is a ridiculous question.

They can enforce it just like any other misdemeanor already on the books. Usually, this means a fine.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 10:02 PM

17. How will they know who to fine?

The law specifically states drivers have to show a license (ID) if operating a motor vehicle.

Out on the street is much different. Mask scofflaw says he has no ID. Now the cop has to decide this is worth a confrontation and risking his career. For not wearing a mask?

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:58 AM

21. You're making up a lot of absurd hypotheticals. The vast majority of people carry ID.

Those that don't carry ID are usually on the fringes anyways. Cops deal with those types daily.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 10:55 AM

32. What if the person doesn't want to show his ID?

How does the cop get the ID if the scofflaw refuses to comply?

Does the cop escalate the situation, or just let the guy go?

That is what my problem is.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:02 PM

43. People get thrown in jail for less. Some people get shot.

In case haven't been paying attention.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:06 PM

44. Yes, they do. That was the point

I was trying to make. That's what it will take.

Thank you.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #44)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 10:10 PM

45. And that's a problem?

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 12:13 PM

37. I never carried ID anywhere, not even driving, until I met my wife.

She told me in no uncertain terms that if I was ever hauled off to jail for that it would be the last I saw of her.

My mind went a little sideways in adolescence and I didn't really find it again until I was 25 years old or so. Before that most of the local cops knew me, at least by reputation. They didn't bother asking for ID. I did have my drivers license number memorized, and sometimes gave it to them if they insisted, but mostly I didn't have to.

I think the cops considered me a comic interlude to their usual sordid duties. I didn't drink, I didn't do drugs, and was usually amicable.

Mostly they'd pick me up running, usually between midnight and five in the morning. Or dumpster diving. Or both. There was a time a nice officer offered to drive me home and I accepted. When we reached the door to my apartment, which I hadn't visited for at least three days, we heard my roommate and his girlfriend enjoying some very loud sex. We stood there silently for an awkwardly long time and then the cop pounded on the door and identified himself as the police.

My roommate's girlfriend, looking very disheveled, soon opened the door and glared at us both. If looks could kill...

The officer asked "Do you know this guy?"

I thought for sure she would say "NO!" but she didn't. She told him I lived there. So I went inside until the officer drove away. I apologized to my roommate and his girlfriend and ran off into the night.

As a white guy I rarely had any violent encounters with the police, even at my craziest.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 09:25 PM

14. There was a guy removed from some train or something becsuse he refused

to put in a mask. the police carried him out.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2020, 10:25 PM

19. The Second Amendment allows us, as ordinary citizens, to shoot those who don't wear masks.

I see that shit every day in front of our local Costco.

Bam! Bam! Bam! Another unmasked protester bites the dust and the corpse is dragged away by guys wearing space suits, and bleach is poured on the blood.



Um no, I don't see that.

I have seen people go back to their cars and get their masks after they "forgot" and were denied entrance.

People always look at them like, "Sure dude... you forgot." (It's almost always a guy.)

Of course parts of our state are overflowing with trump-bots and they won't be convinced it's not a hoax even when their moms die of the virus. Or maybe they want their moms to die. They've been living in mom's basement a long time and it's the only way they'll ever move upstairs.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:03 AM

22. Well if you live here you could do your part by shouting: "Back off!" & "Stone the lepers!"

In other words, social opprobrium might be helpful.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 01:38 AM

27. It gives cover for businesses to enforce it nt

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 10:34 PM

46. My county has had a mandatory mask law for a while

I haven't seen any people in stores or other places of business not wearing masks - they're not allowed in if they don't have one. People walking or exercising in their own neighborhoods or local parks aren't cited, and people do tend to keep a good distance (I'm getting a tad paranoid about people crossing the street when they seem me walking towards them, though )

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Fri Jun 19, 2020, 10:36 PM

47. I don't think it's about enforcement, it's about encouraging those who

can be persuaded to (via laws) to wear it. I think that's the vast majority of people.

Keep in mind that sometimes people cave to peer pressure and that affects mask wearing as well. The law takes care of that angle by making it mandatory.

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