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Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:31 PM

Re: Family who have uttered "rifle dropper" or "surrender monkey"..

I humbly submit for your review, if you've ever heard a family member historically ignorantly refer to France with the terms: "rifle dropper" or "surrender monkeys", (or if you yourself have uttered these words...)* That [email protected]% is over after 45*'s presidency. No on has surrendered and retreated more than this man. Mostly just the past months accumulated examples:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/retreat-from-germany-11591566310
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0PGyRSTH/trump-orders-military-troops-to-retreat-from-protests-says-everything-is-under-control
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/501472-cheney-blasts-trump-move-to-draw-down-troops-in-germany-dangerously-misguided
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-withdraw-us-key-arms-control-pact/story?id=70815149
https://theintercept.com/2020/05/12/two-female-reporters-refused-let-trump-bully-silence-ran-away/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52957113
https://www.web24.news/u/2020/05/donald-trump-has-already-withdrawn-from-these-organizations-and-agreements.html
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/19/21224305/world-health-organization-trump-reform-q-a
https://www.dispatch.com/zz/news/20200605/dc-mayor-bowser-demands-trump-withdraw-military-and-federal-law-enforcement-from-city-amid-protests-over-george-floyd
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2020/06/07/trump-withdraws-out-state-national-guard-members-from/MhwLdw2m2EmitOvDdGg3fK/story.html
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/20/trump-threatens-federal-funding-for-michigan-mail-in-voting-270609

This was just a quick list (*and calling out for else-wheres use) to make a point but would not mind adding to the collection. Peace!

(don't feel it really should be necessary here with the DU but I'll simply add that the Maginot Line and not getting high on your own supply of propaganda are highly relevant to the subject)

edit: the context just dawned on me after posting, as well that, the egregious moment that escalated this even further was him removing protestors from Lafayette Plaza. Just thought I'd add that.


edits for over a month ago suggestions and other things:
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/2019/10/16/another-former-centcom-general-weighs-in-with-displeasure-over-trumps-syria-gambit/

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply Re: Family who have uttered "rifle dropper" or "surrender monkey".. (Original post)
Shiv Jun 2020 OP
genxlib Jun 2020 #1
Shiv Jun 2020 #2
Mike 03 Jun 2020 #3
Shiv Jun 2020 #4
sarisataka Jun 2020 #5
Shiv Jun 2020 #6
sarisataka Jun 2020 #9
Shiv Jun 2020 #10
Aristus Jun 2020 #7
11 Bravo Jun 2020 #8
jrandom421 Jun 2020 #11

Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:38 PM

1. It was always offensive

During the buildup to the Iraq War that used to piss me off.

No matter what you thought of our own decision to start a war, we have no right to criticize the positions of other countries. Especially one that had the two most horrific wars of the last century fought on their own turf. They have every reason to be wary of violence as a means to solve international problems.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:41 PM

2. a whole adult person's worth of age..

has passed and "freedom fries" are still fighting words in my presence. France was our first serious overseas ally as far as I know.

so heck yeah.

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Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:45 PM

3. Yanking our troops out of Syria and throwing the Kurds to slaughter

following a phone call with Erdogan that no one was allowed to listen in on was one of the very worst things Trump did IMO. News moves so quickly now that's all but been forgotten.

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:53 PM

4. its disturbing that was out of my mind with the focus on recent events. ty Mike! (nt)

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Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:31 PM

5. I prefer the formal phrasing

"Cheese eating surrender monkey"

it is tongue in cheek. I have read about the French campaign and the strategic flaws of the allied battle plan in the early war.

Coupled with the misplaced faith in the Maginot forts, French leadership could not summon the will to continue the war. Pétain was brought in to end the conflict rather than rally them àla Gandalf ("Ils ne passeront pas" ) as he did in the previous war.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:33 PM

6. Thank you, sir(?) -

I stand corrected

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Response to Shiv (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:43 PM

9. I declined an offer to go to OCS

But you did guess correctly.

My interactions with modern French troops were few but I found La Légion Étrangère to be an extremely professional, well trained force.

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Response to Shiv (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:53 PM

10. actually..

was more concerned with the internet phenomena of not knowing the gender of someone I'm speaking to, I'm a young-enough still civvie that it'd feel appropriate there regardless

dang do I enjoy having a place full of like-hearts if not always like-minds on every little detail.

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Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:35 PM

7. Plus, it's wildly inaccurate.

France had some problems in World War II (mostly political in nature, but anyone tsk-tsking the state of readiness of the French Army prior to the war should know that at least it was higher than our own.)

But the French military really has a tradition of fucking your shit up, in a bad way. The French tradition of military excellence goes back to the 9th Century a.d.

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Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:40 PM

8. France lost damned near an entire generation of young men in WWI.

20 years later, they were ill-equipped and understandably reticent to do it again.

The "surrender monkey" bullshit, particularly when tossed around by people who have never heard a shot fired in anger, chaps my ass.

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Response to Shiv (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:42 PM

11. Just ask the Vietnamese Army

veterans who fought the French at Dien Bien Phu how much they were like "surrendur monkeys"

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