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Fri May 29, 2020, 10:41 PM

I get those protest in peace, but looting & destruction of personal property, really?

Even here in Omaha the crowd tried to get into a Target store. The police are blocking the doors and are refraining from using forced removal.

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Reply I get those protest in peace, but looting & destruction of personal property, really? (Original post)
imanamerican63 May 2020 OP
bottomofthehill May 2020 #1
marble falls May 2020 #2
customerserviceguy May 2020 #6
marble falls May 2020 #7
customerserviceguy May 2020 #10
marble falls May 2020 #12
customerserviceguy May 2020 #14
marble falls May 2020 #19
customerserviceguy May 2020 #37
Doremus May 2020 #33
customerserviceguy May 2020 #34
Doremus May 2020 #35
customerserviceguy May 2020 #38
Doremus May 2020 #39
customerserviceguy May 2020 #42
NutmegYankee May 2020 #8
customerserviceguy May 2020 #11
NutmegYankee May 2020 #13
customerserviceguy May 2020 #16
NutmegYankee May 2020 #17
customerserviceguy May 2020 #18
Doremus May 2020 #40
customerserviceguy May 2020 #41
brush May 2020 #20
Igel May 2020 #21
marble falls May 2020 #23
SharonClark May 2020 #24
marble falls May 2020 #28
LizBeth May 2020 #3
Raine May 2020 #4
Bettie May 2020 #26
backscatter712 May 2020 #32
liberalmuse May 2020 #5
question everything May 2020 #9
liberalmuse May 2020 #15
Igel May 2020 #22
question everything May 2020 #30
question everything May 2020 #29
MissB May 2020 #25
yardwork May 2020 #27
Marrah_Goodman May 2020 #31
Codeine May 2020 #36
R B Garr May 2020 #43

Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Fri May 29, 2020, 10:51 PM

1. Protesters by day

The looters come out by night.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Fri May 29, 2020, 10:59 PM

2. "Riot is the language used by those not allowed a voice." MLK.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:05 PM

6. And what did that get us?

Nixon as president, effectively using the dog-whistle of "law and order". He even managed to win with George Wallace bleeding off the votes of the worst racists.

If the Democratic National Convention this year looks like Chicago 1968, we will see the orange anus get re-elected.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #6)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:11 PM

7. So you'll blame it on PoC? They just need to know their place until someone rescues them ...

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #7)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:17 PM

10. No

I'm blaming it on those who choose to burn, destroy, and loot.

I'm old enough to remember how what the media labelled as "race riots" gave us the Nixon administration. Twice.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #10)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:25 PM

12. I'm old enough to remember voting for Nixon and his promise to get us out of Viet Nam ...

was the reason I made that mistake. How comes the riots in his first term didn't interfere with his second term???

Shutting up and taking it hasn't worked yet. I'm still not buying it.

Why won't these riots interfere with his second term but corvid19, unemployment will?

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Response to marble falls (Reply #12)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:29 PM

14. Well, there was that Watergate thing

Nixon and his minions didn't get caught until after the election. I'm sure that some of the information stolen was helpful in the re-election effort.

Also, Nixon managed to do an effective job of demonizing George McGovern. We already see Trump and his media arm Fox News doing that like crazy with Joe Biden. Biden is going to come under pressure to distance himself from the nastier aspects of the events unfolding now. He may not do it as deftly as we'd like.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #14)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:56 PM

19. Watergate happened in his first term. Maybe it would have inerfered with his third term???

Your advice is for Biden to divorce himself from Democratic PoC? Whose side are you on????

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Response to marble falls (Reply #19)

Sat May 30, 2020, 02:53 PM

37. Watergate did happen in the first term

But it was not until after the election and Nixon's re-inauguration that he and his White House staff were directly tied to Liddy and his "plumbers". I remember it very, very well. Sure, I thought that Tricky Dick was behind it, but that was not confirmed until way later.

Also, I did not call for Biden to alienate himself from people of color. Clearly, he seems to do that on his own every once in awhile. All I intended to say was that he will be under some pressure to make statements about the burning and looting, and he will have to be very careful about his answer. Pete Buttigieg was my choice in the SC primary, and I felt that he knew how to deliver an articulate answer in this regard. I have a bit less confidence in Joe Biden's ability, but I do know that African-American voters are likely to be forgiving.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #10)

Sat May 30, 2020, 01:22 PM

33. Then blame it on the agent provocateurs who started and continued the violence. nt

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Response to Doremus (Reply #33)

Sat May 30, 2020, 02:37 PM

34. I've certainly heard the rumors of them

but only here. Once something comes out in the mainstream media about these supposed outsiders, and who their identities and agendas are, I'll have more information to consider.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #34)

Sat May 30, 2020, 02:41 PM

35. St Paul mayor says everyone arrested in his city was from out of state





Minnesota Attorney General Suggests Auto Zone Riot Starter Was ‘Provocateur’

[link:https://thesource.com/2020/05/29/minnesota-attorney-general-suggests-auto-zone-riot-starter-was-provocateur/|


There are many more. If you're genuinely curious you can easily search them out. Suffice to say there is evidence, not only mere rumors, of agent provocateurs in full force.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #35)

Sat May 30, 2020, 02:55 PM

38. Yes, I saw that

Have names been released? Has investigative journalism tied those arrested to a particular ideology?

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #38)

Sat May 30, 2020, 03:39 PM

39. The mayor says he will be releasing names.

I'm sure you'll be watching for that. Investigative journalism will do what investigative journalism does.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #39)

Sun May 31, 2020, 09:09 PM

42. I look forward to that. n/t

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #6)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:13 PM

8. It's not a logical response, it's an emotional release.

Rage is usually destructive, and riots are one of its worst methods of release.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #8)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:19 PM

11. And the "emotional release"

of the mushy middle, the swing voters who decide the weekend before an election who to vote for, might be to punish the party they think is more aligned with violence.

They usually vote for whichever side scares them the least. Of course, we could repeat the riots of the 1960's and see if it gets a different result this time.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #11)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:28 PM

13. Unlike the 60s, the rightwing is much smaller today

If they continue to rule as a minority, that rage will sweep them all away like the Ancien Régime.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #13)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:31 PM

16. I disagree

They got Trump elected, even though he is absolutely unqualified to be president. The fact that there's still a significant chance of him being re-elected proves that they're not as small as you and I would like to see.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #16)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:35 PM

17. You misunderstood my point.

I'm talking longer time lines than just this year.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #17)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:56 PM

18. Yes, perhaps I did

I guess I'm pretty focused on this year right now. And a second Trump term could produce changes, especially in the court system, that lock in right-wing advantages for many years to come.

We need to put forth our very, very best efforts this year, and activity that is seen by the mushy middle as going over the line is not helpful.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #11)

Sat May 30, 2020, 03:40 PM

40. BS



Talk about mushy middle.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #40)

Sun May 31, 2020, 09:08 PM

41. If you prefer

the term "swing voter" it refers to people who are so damned uninformed that they make up their minds the weekend before an election as to who to vote for. If you really feel that such people don't exist, fine, but when we see both sides of Congress and even the White House switching back and forth between the two major parties, then you need to come up with a suitable explanation as to why that happens without people who are indeed, "mushy".

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #6)

Sat May 30, 2020, 12:07 AM

20. You actually think protests in dozens of US cities, on top of...

the cratered economy and the bungled virus response is going to help trump get elected?

Nah, these protests by mostly young people of all colors is waking more and more people up. And I'm betting this awakening will be the thing that finally gets younger people to vote heavily to get trump out.

This is not helping trump. His disappearance from even addressing the nation is making people see he's no leader. We need a president and he ain't it.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Sat May 30, 2020, 12:54 AM

21. Not "riot is the language used only by those not allowed a voice."

The two are rather different in meaning and should not be confused--otherwise we're justifying something that's wrong through mental sloppiness and bias.

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Response to Igel (Reply #21)

Sat May 30, 2020, 06:15 AM

23. MLK repeated it many times and I'm not arguing with him, but you go right ahead.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #2)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:09 AM

24. Riot is the voice of those who just want

to burn it down.
Looting is the voice of those who just want stuff.

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Response to SharonClark (Reply #24)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:46 AM

28. Do you really believe that? Isn't your rage a bit misplaced?

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:03 PM

3. This has been going on for a very long time, protests, pleads, kneeling. So they tear things up.

A man was murder, just a long line of black people murdered.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:03 PM

4. Peaceful protests get ignored

and forgotten. I would bet that if last might had been nothing but a peaceful protest that murdering cop wouldn't have been arrested and charged.

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Response to Raine (Reply #4)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:19 AM

26. I agree

they would have swept this under the rug, offered a low-ball settlement to the family and gone on their way. All of those cops would have been rehired quietly over the course of the next few months and that would be it.

NO ONE CARES about peaceful protests anymore, well, unless it is a handful of idiot right wing white dudes with guns, then they are the most important thing on the planet.

POC? Women? No one who has power cares.

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Response to Raine (Reply #4)

Sat May 30, 2020, 01:10 PM

32. This.

Kaepernick took a knee, and got fired.

BLM protested, they got arrested and ignored by the government and police. Then they got harassed and threatened and worse by the alt-right.

Systematically, black and brown voices have been forcibly squelched.

Yet alt-right chuds storm state capitals waving assault rifles, because they want a haircut during a pandemic, and they get a pass.

As JFK said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

I hope nobody gets killed or hurt, but at the same time, Minneapolis' cops are a disgrace to their profession. They deserved to have their police station burned down.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:04 PM

5. Why not?

I mean, if you can get shot and killed by a cop standing on the street licking an ice cream, why the fuck not loot and at least get something for it? Why be expected to adhere to laws police officers can break on camera without fear of punishment? I understand the anger. I'm angry and I have never faced the vile shit people of color have had to go through day in and day out. This is an excellent video explaining a lot of it.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #5)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:14 PM

9. Because often you destroy small businesses in your neighborhood

The looters often come from other areas just instigators. It is the people who live there who have lost their stores, who are now asking: where an I going to get my food? My medicine?

These are residential neighborhoods and many business owners are minority, often immigrants trying yo make a living.

These rioters are shooting themselves in their feet.

Neither Detroit nor South Los Angeles have recovered from their 1967 and 1992 riots. Businesses did not return. Certainly not after Covid 19.

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Response to question everything (Reply #9)

Fri May 29, 2020, 11:30 PM

15. I don't condone it. But I understand the anger.

Better to shoot yourself in the foot than let someone else shoot you in the head. White people have the luxury of sitting back and condemning protests and destruction of property. Too many people of color have nothing much to lose in this country. Like George Floyd some white authoritarian asshat puts a boot on their neck.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #15)

Sat May 30, 2020, 01:03 AM

22. Here's somebody shot in the foot.

Not himself, of course.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/firefighter-business-bar-minneapolis-riots

It's not a story you read in many places because, well, it's off-message.

Don't worry, though, I'm sure that somebody'll come along and show that really he is a bad person and deserved it. Because somebody claims that 25 years ago he said something that obviously (given that he's a bad person) had to be bad.

Apparently a gofundme page has been set up to remedy the righteousness of his bar being burned. If he's smart, he won't build it in the same place. Sadly, he probably will, and I can only wonder if some of the "peaceful protestors" will apply for jobs there.

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Response to Igel (Reply #22)

Sat May 30, 2020, 12:56 PM

30. Really heart breaking

but, hey, so many "white people living in luxury" away from the area cheer the riots for "principles."

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #15)

Sat May 30, 2020, 12:54 PM

29. You understand their anger, but no sympathy or empathy for the residents and the small

business owners who have been serving the community?

No sympathy for the "people of color" who have no place to go, no place to get their needed food and medicine?

What kind of a logic is this?

Yes, "white people of luxury sitting back" and telling the poor resident: too bad, so-called principles is more important than your agony and despair when your neighborhood is destroyed.

And, by the way, many of the destructive was done by... white people who do not even live in the state.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:15 AM

25. Lots of fires and looting in downtown Portland (Oregon) last night.

The police didn’t stop looting. They only swept in when fires were started. The Apple store just opened back up last week. Quite looted apparently. Target, jewelry store, etc all looted. Justice center had fires set inside.

But the police weren’t trying to prevent it, which does seem like a reasonable response when the crowd is out of control.

Curfew now in place from 8 pm to 6 am at least for Saturday night into Sunday.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 08:24 AM

27. Riots are violent. That's the definition of a riot.

The point is not to allow a society that is so unfair, people become angry and frightened to the point where they feel they have no recourse but to riot. That's the point of a democracy, supposedly, to create a society that is just and good enough so that people don't have to riot.

Riots are evidence of OUR failure. Our nation's failure to create a just and good society. Of course they're violent and destructive. Let's work together to prevent the CAUSES of riots, m'kay?

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 12:59 PM

31. Peaceful protest hasn't stopped this crap for 400 years

This is the result of justifiable rage boiling over. This is what happens when you oppress people for hundreds of years.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Sat May 30, 2020, 02:43 PM

36. Because angry people react angrily.

 

We rarely make sensible decisions when our emotions run high, and a whole lot of people are justifiably enraged right now.

Add to that open provocations by the police and the hidden provocations of bad actors and property destruction is inevitable.

And really, who gives a fuck? If that’s what you’re worried about to your priorities are well and truly out of order.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Sun May 31, 2020, 09:15 PM

43. Exactly right. This isn't rioting now, it's just straight up

looting. Grabbing merchandise and running, loading the car then coming back for more. These are opportunists. Rioting implies an emotional reaction to injustice, but this is just opportunistic looting.



The looting takes away from the protestors. It loses the message and enhances the police image.

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