Thu May 21, 2020, 01:13 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

Suddenly Yang's idea of universal basic income doesn't seem so crazy

It was often ridiculed, even by some on here, but now Pelosi and many others are warming to the idea, according to the LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-05-20/universal-basic-income-coronavirus-stimulus-aid

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27 replies	Author	Time	Post
Suddenly Yang's idea of universal basic income doesn't seem so crazy (Original post)	Bradshaw3	May 2020	OP
Isn't nice to be ahead of the curve	rpannier	May 2020	#1
Too true	Bradshaw3	May 2020	#2
Medicare was going to take away our freedoms	rpannier	May 2020	#5
Yep, gave Rayguns his start	Bradshaw3	May 2020	#6
I bring him up when retired people decry the ACA as Socialism	rpannier	May 2020	#16
Its either UBI or societal collapse.	roamer65	May 2020	#3
I think the repubs learned a lesson from 2009	Bradshaw3	May 2020	#4
I would agree.	roamer65	May 2020	#7
The recovery would have been even faster without the Repubs riding the brakes...	Wounded Bear	May 2020	#23
he can send me a check every month if he wants :-) nt	msongs	May 2020	#8
Nope. Not buying it.	GulfCoast66	May 2020	#9
Valid points	Bradshaw3	May 2020	#11
How about universal housing, health care, education, and food?	Hermit-The-Prog	May 2020	#13
I support universal healthcare, not to be confused with MFA	GulfCoast66	May 2020	#19
Yang's proposal was for $1,000 a month,	Qutzupalotl	May 2020	#14
So you know a few	rpannier	May 2020	#17
What happens when your job is replaced	JmAln	May 2020	#20
I've been hearing that for 30 years.	GulfCoast66	May 2020	#25
It never did	lame54	May 2020	#10
I agree	Bradshaw3	May 2020	#12
it was always a great idea, and it's becoming necessary	AlexSFCA	May 2020	#15
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2020	#18
No kidding.	dalton99a	May 2020	#21
We definitely need to redefine how people make a living...	Wounded Bear	May 2020	#22
I never thought it was crazy. Just unacheivable.	GoCubsGo	May 2020	#24
People have very short memories	Steelrolled	May 2020	#26
imo, we desperately need UBI.	area51	May 2020	#27

Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:16 AM

rpannier (23,958 posts)

1. Isn't nice to be ahead of the curve

Everything is crazy to those who don't want to take a chance
If you went back to 1927 and proposed Social Security, people probably would have said you were crazy

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Response to rpannier (Reply #1)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:18 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

2. Too true

Same with Medicare and universal healthcare.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #2)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:21 AM

rpannier (23,958 posts)

5. Medicare was going to take away our freedoms

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Response to rpannier (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:23 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

6. Yep, gave Rayguns his start

Until then he was just a has-been B list actor.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #6)

Thu May 21, 2020, 03:04 AM

rpannier (23,958 posts)

16. I bring him up when retired people decry the ACA as Socialism

I ask if they're taking medicare or returning it. They all say they're taking it. Then I remind them that Reagan called that Socialism.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:19 AM

roamer65 (33,975 posts)

3. Its either UBI or societal collapse.

The amount of unemployed cannot be ignored for long.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:20 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

4. I think the repubs learned a lesson from 2009

They saw the Dems' bailouts worked to save the economy.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #4)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:25 AM

roamer65 (33,975 posts)

7. I would agree.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #4)

Thu May 21, 2020, 10:58 AM

Wounded Bear (55,360 posts)

23. The recovery would have been even faster without the Repubs riding the brakes...

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:35 AM

msongs (65,340 posts)

8. he can send me a check every month if he wants :-) nt

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:39 AM

GulfCoast66 (11,949 posts)

9. Nope. Not buying it.

Don’t get me wrong, I want a much bigger safety net and love the way Nancy got the $15 an hour unemployment benefits put thru to the end of July. Lots of workers going back to work for less are gonna be pissed.

Why am I opposed to a UBI? Many of my extended family members. Had they had that when they were fucking around in their 20’s they would have never changed. But the pressure to get off their ass and stop drinking and smoking pot all day pushed many of them into making something of themselves. Not that I’m opposed to legalized pot. But I’ll be damned if I want to help pay for someone to do it all the time. And my family members would have.

We need to concentrate on making honest work result in an honest wage, which now it does not. Not making work optional.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:47 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

11. Valid points

The problem is the cost of living, especially housing costs, have increased so much that even $15 an hour or more isn't enough to cover the basic cost of living. I agree that working can teach good life lessons and we don't need to enable the lazy, but when those who do work are still suffering, do we demoralize them to prevent the bums from continuing their lifestyle? I don't know to be honest.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:55 AM

Hermit-The-Prog (27,170 posts)

13. How about universal housing, health care, education, and food?

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #13)

Thu May 21, 2020, 09:58 AM

GulfCoast66 (11,949 posts)

19. I support universal healthcare, not to be confused with MFA

But I think the other 3, except K-12 education should be based on ability to pay.

Good housing and food help for the poor. Sure. Housing and food subsidies for people in my situation? No way. It takes resources from those who really need help.

I’m just a fan of means testing to determine aid. And of course, much more generous help than we now give.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2020, 02:03 AM

Qutzupalotl (13,263 posts)

14. Yang's proposal was for $1,000 a month,

which would cover food but wouldn’t go far for rent. So someone could live on the street or in a tent on that, or maybe have a bunch of roommates, but if you wanted to live somewhere decent you’d still have to work. There is would still be an incentive to work to better oneself.

I opposed UBI at the time because I thought it was another scheme to eliminate Social Security. It would certainly cause a revolt among the top 0.1%. Now I’m thinking it’s a way to keep people alive if they can’t safely work — but only as a short-term measure.

There does seem to be reluctance to return to work among people who are making more with the stimuli while not working — just an anecdotal report from a restaurant owner who couldn’t get workers to come back for that reason. Then again, maybe if they paid their workers better, they would.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2020, 03:44 AM

rpannier (23,958 posts)

17. So you know a few

The honest work for an honest wage is all fine and good. But, given the direction companies are going, those good paying jobs are drying up quickly.
Also I would add, you're sharing a tiny fraction of society -- your extended family members. To use such a small sampling is an insult to those who are not wastrels. It also feeds into the narrative of those who spend their time verbally lashing the poor and those who have almost nothing and require help.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2020, 10:50 AM

JmAln (69 posts)

20. What happens when your job is replaced

by a robot or AI? UBI is going to be necessary in the future. Otherwise people won't have any money to buy the shit produced by robots and AI.

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Response to JmAln (Reply #20)

Thu May 21, 2020, 07:01 PM

GulfCoast66 (11,949 posts)

25. I've been hearing that for 30 years.

And it may be true someday. Probably way after Texas turns blue. Which I have also been hearing about for years. In that case we need different policies.

But when President Obama left office employers could not find good workers. And when President Biden is in office I expect the same to happen.

The problem is not the lack of jobs. But lack of the will to force employers to pay a decent wage.

Seems to me convincing Americans that everyone deserves a good wage is an easier sell.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:42 AM

lame54 (33,604 posts)

10. It never did

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Response to lame54 (Reply #10)

Thu May 21, 2020, 01:49 AM

Bradshaw3 (6,889 posts)

12. I agree

And Yang did a good job during the campaign of explaining why it would work.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 02:18 AM

AlexSFCA (6,086 posts)

15. it was always a great idea, and it's becoming necessary

Biden needs Yang in his cabinet. Secretary of Labor.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 10:52 AM

dalton99a (74,341 posts)

21. No kidding.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 10:54 AM

Wounded Bear (55,360 posts)

22. We definitely need to redefine how people make a living...

and the basic definition of work for pay in our society.

UBI is one strong suggestion.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 11:00 AM

GoCubsGo (31,099 posts)

24. I never thought it was crazy. Just unacheivable.

Not in my lifetime, anyway. Not with all these corporate oligarchs running the show. Glad to see it getting some attention. A good stepping stone would to separate healthcare access from employment.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 09:59 PM

Steelrolled (2,022 posts)

26. People have very short memories

The crisis of today will be viewed very differently in two years.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2020, 10:05 PM

area51 (10,980 posts)

27. imo, we desperately need UBI.

Also, giving a UBI to people would help stimulate the economy as it'll be spent on food, housing, etc.

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