Just had a terrible confrontation w/ a friend: Damn Fox "news" to hell!

[BComplex]

This woman and I have been becoming friends for a few years, and have friends in common. We've met a couple of times car-window to car-window for social distancing lunches, which a lot of girlfriends are doing these days.

This woman is a Phd. and a minister, late 60's. So we're talking about this man she's interested in, and how she hasn't seen him because of social distancing, and all of a sudden....here she goes with Fox "news" crap:

"The liberals are trying to count all deaths as coronavirus to make trump look bad".

"Trump is the chosen one of God, and when he's out of office, the liberals are going to start what the Bible says in Armageddon. These are the end days, and the liberals are the devil's pawns."

I interrupted her and said, "You must be a Fox "news" fan."

She says "Of course I am! They're the only ones that tell the TRUTH about things. All the other channels are run by the liberals, and they lie all the time. Fox is the only place that I can get a fair and balanced take on what is going on!"

She said: "what corked it for me...ya wanna know what corked it for me? Liberals kill babies!!! The doctor puts the baby in her hands and she kills it!!!" (She said it. Her face was all contorted.)

I said: "I AM A LIBERAL!!! And that is SO not true!!!"

It went downhill from there.

It was over an hour ago, and I'm still shaking, and deeply sad. Fox is making liberals out to be the devil with these people. How is that not splitting this country apart? How can they be allowed to do this?

Furthermore, this person had "links" to videos that she wanted to send me to prove it. I told her I didn't want to see any such trash. And I told her to turn off Fox news. She said she loves it. She loves it, but she hates liberals.

Fox "news". Something has to be done. I don't see how we can ever heal from this. I don't ever want to see this woman again, and I know so many people think just like she does. How can we be the "united" states, if fox keeps programming 1/2 of the people to HATE the other half?

[sfstaxprep]

1. Friend?

Furthermore, this person had "links" to videos that she wanted to send me to prove it. I told her I didn't want to see any such trash. And I told her to turn off Fox news. She said she loves it. She loves it, but she hates liberals.


And you still call this person "friend?" I prefer to be friends with people who don't HATE me.

[BComplex]

3. Yes, I guess I should have said "former friend; until today."

I can't quit shaking. So much venom!

[msongs]

2. "minister", "bible", "fox news". that about covers it nt

[BComplex]

4. I know. Right?

I never saw the Fox "news" part until today. But, boy! Did I ever get a load of it today!

I didn't even tell the rest of what she said, which was every bit as bad. But I just sat there shaking my head, saying "that is so not true!" at all the crap she was saying. These people are TOTALLY brainwashed. Totally and completely. There is no room for discussion.

[Wounded Bear]

5. Yeah, if those ain't red flags, someone is color blind...nt

[essaynnc]

6. My condolences.....

I'm sorry that you had such a confrontation with an "almost" friend.

I had a similar experience earlier in the week, with an acquaintance and his girlfriend. We started talking about the pandemic and he quickly started spouting obvious faux news talking points... how the cure is worse than the disease, how more people are dying due to the shutdown, how it's killing the economy and the deaths are overblown, we have to get people back to work, how sunshine and blood transfusions "cure" the disease. His girlfriend was looking on with horror as he talked, I finally told him, look, you're obviously a fox news junkie, and you're just repeating what you've heard. You need to do some research, not just parrot what you've heard.

He just turned around and walked away...... I don't think that he'll ever reach out to me again.

[BComplex]

12. That's about how this went, too.

They just can't keep their mouths shut, I guess. I'm still trying to process my encounter with this woman, and it just hurts.

Hurts to watch otherwise positive and fun and funny people all of a sudden contort their face in hate and start spewing one lie after another. It's really a shock to the system.

[dawg day]

7. I think proclaiming you're a liberal is a good tactic, actually-

As long as they can imagine liberals and Democrats are monstrous anonymous boogie men, they can come up with the most insane impressions. But when you say, "I-- the one you have lunch with and trust with your confidences-- am a liberal," they might actually stop and think.

I don't know. I wonder if they do. I wonder if they ever think, "Why am I choosing this Trump guy over actual friends?"

I have a young cousin whose parents (they are my actual cousins-- she's "once-removed" I guess) are furious Trumpers. They used to be kind of rightwing but okay, you know, against gay marriage in principle but polite to the gay couple next door. Since 2015, though, they've become (in tandem) really loud and angry and utterly devoted to Trump. They're not into the more arcane conspiracy theories, but they're into blaming Democrats for everything including the virus.

My young cousin is - amazing considering who raised her-- liberal and tolerant. The last time she was home, her parents went on a rant about how it was the Soros-gay conspiracy that brought the virus over (the trifecta-- antisemitic homophobic anti-science) to destroy Trump's presidency.

She hasn't gone back. She's a mild person and doesn't want to make a big scene over it, but she's staying away. And I thought, "Her parents chose Trump over their own daughter."

I don't know how those people are going to come back into the normal range. They're too far gone.

[BComplex]

14. That was another one of the things she said: that the liberals created the virus.

Where are they getting this shit? Even Fox "news" doesn't preach THAT, do they?

[dawg day]

52. Wait, I thought they thought it was Chinese bio-terrorism!

But if they blame liberals, they can bring Soros into it.

[BComplex]

55. What is a good blame without bringing Soros into it?

I know! Right?

[cayugafalls]

8. The extreme right media machine has demonized the left.

We are to be considered dangerous and evil.

They have done exactly what Goebbels did in Nazi Germany. Dehumanize the enemy so that people feel justified in their hatred.

It will be very difficult to fight and make things right again.

I am very afraid for our country, the division is very deep.

[gristy]

9. Choose your friends more carefully

It's a mystery how you had been becoming friends for a few years and found out only today that she is a full-fledged MAGA RWNJ. Did she recently convert? Did you not express your views in the past?

[BComplex]

20. No. Up until more recently, our friendship has been mostly professional, so we never discussed

anything political. Mostly just regional, educational issues.

[get the red out]

10. Fox is disgusting

And she's a PhD you said, and she wanting to send you links to her cult brainwashing tapes in order to prove the truth of the cult brainwashing tapes? Round and round they go.

JMO but I think Churches are a huge distributer of Fox thinking and shit for brains "news". My gentle, loving aunt passes sick RW memes along on FB, I guess that's what white, rural southerners who have been terrorized about going to hell feel they have to do.

I hate this sick shit.

[BComplex]

26. For some reason, I expect more from highly educated people.

Maybe that's just a stereotype I have to get over, but I have to say, I was shocked out of my boots.

[womanofthehills]

68. An ex boyfriend from high school who has a PHD recently contacted me on Facebook

He told me he gets his news from Tucker Carlson. You can have a PHD and be clueless. Some people in my rural town have posted that Fox News is becoming too liberal so they only watch Tucker.

[BComplex]

69. OMG!!!

Fox is becoming too liberal????

[Different Drummer]

63. Can confirm that's what a lot of rural white Southerners who have been terrorized...

about going to hell do. I've often said my idea of hell would be to end up in heaven and find it populated by such people.

[orwell]

11. Consider yourself lucky...

...you found out all you need to know about your "friend".

I just chalk them off as mentally unbalanced and move on.

There no discussion with crazy.

[BComplex]

22. No, there is no discussion with crazy. You're absolutely right. eom

[Bucky]

13. Destroying civility is always job number one for fascist takeovers

I won't give them the satisfaction. I stand my ground with against disinformation, but I force facts and civulity upon them. Human decency and basic compassion are among our strongest weapons.

[Downtown Hound]

19. Civility didn't defeat the Nazis.

Overwhelming and unapologetic force did.

[Bucky]

25. Cute, but flawed analogies didn't either

Of course I'm not saying don't fight. I literally said the exact opposite.

You know how we didn't defeat the Nazis? We weren't copying their slave economics. We didn't copy their war crimes policies.

The major human rights problem we did exhibit, the internment of the nissei, profoundly worked against us and made it harder to defeat the fascists in both fronts.

[BComplex]

27. People forget the we had a nazi party in the USA at the time.

But that's where Smedley Butler came in.

[Downtown Hound]

35. Um, I haven't forgotten

And with everything I've seen in the country in the past few years, I see it as more likely than ever that we may go down that route. Which is why we're well past the time for "civility."

[BComplex]

51. Agreed. eom

[Downtown Hound]

31. Your post is pretty much the definition of a flawed analogy

Calling someone out on their stupidity and ending a "friendship" is not copying slave economics or war crimes policies, and it's complete hyperbole to suggest that it is.

If more Germans had aggressively challenged their neighbors and friends who were buying into what the Nazis were selling early on, one of histories greatest tragedies might have been prevented.

[Turbineguy]

15. It seems to me that we need some sort of antidote

to the effects of Fox News propaganda. I think of it a bit like heroin. Anybody can become addicted. But you have to start by taking it.

Years ago I asked my Doctor "How can people inject themselves with this stuff?" She replied that the reward was greater than the reluctance to stick a needle in their arm.

Fox News being a psychological addiction can be overcome by not watching it. But I'm sure there must be some sort of withdrawal.

This propaganda has the effect of a base-level emotional satisfaction that becomes worse. I think this feeling and the further need for it become so strong that people arrange their lives around it, they make decisions in such a way that the result is this satisfied feeling. It's not based on logic or facts.

In normal circumstances we are all subjected to these pressures. Marketing people use it to sell cars. But with a car, you have the physical fact of owning the car to tell you if you are happy with your decision or not.

With Fox propaganda you only have the emotional feeling to reward you. It's not physical substance.

We need to figure out how to de-program millions of people who are owned by their belief in this stuff.

[totodeinhere]

16. There are people like that. If I were you I would just ignore her opinions and move on. n/t

[Downtown Hound]

17. My advice is to rethink your friends. She's crazy even for a Trumpanzee.

[BComplex]

53. I see that now.

I can't say I would be meeting her again for car-lunch anytime soon.

[Aristus]

18. PhD.? From what uncredentialed cow college? Or diploma mill?

Obtaining a PhD. really requires the kind of incisive and curious mind she doesn't seem to possess...

[BComplex]

32. No. It's a state university.

She's got the degrees, and I know local people who went to school with her.

[pandr32]

21. It is otherworldly and not in a good way

A few people I have known for years have worn me down, too. I give up with them.

Many times I have taken time to send them accurate information and links because I have always believed that the truth shines through--they have just somehow missed it. It hasn't made one speck of a difference. No matter how many times I have shown study links and factual articles that counter Fox News' narratives no difference has been made. They continue as though I never bothered and worse, that there is something wrong with me.

This is like living in a nightmare.

[BComplex]

34. It is like living in a nightmare, pandr32!

It's not like we're a divided country: it's like we're two different species!

[pandr32]

72. Very true

[90-percent]

23. Prejudice towards liberals

It hurts my feelings when facebook acquaintances describe liberalism as a cancer on our nation.

What these fox viewers think liberals stand for has been programmed by 30 years of hate radio and fox news.

In other words, the view foxbots have is not there own. It was brainwashed into them using the tried and true NAZI BIG LIE propaganda method. The more the lie is repeated, the more it becomes truth in their minds. And they don't understand their thought and point of view was IMPLANTED into them by the morbidly wealthy that think a life of economic servitude is all us inferior by virtue of not being a billionaire deserve.

Their wealth is not due to innate superiority and ability, their wealth comes from morally bankrupt sociopath's greed.

Behind every great fortune is a great crime.

-90% Jimmy

[BComplex]

37. So true, 90%Jimmy. I'm going to keep your quote: "Behind every great fortune is a great crime".

Good one, and no doubt true.

[90-percent]

70. it's plagerized

some famous guy like oscar wilde or upton sinclair or john steinbeck or norman mailer or gore vidal came up with it.

-90 % Jmmy

[renate]

38. in a weird way I almost find it comforting that this is mostly due to Fox

Of course, it's terrifying that so many people are so easily brainwashable. (And I'll readily admit that my sources of information surely affect my world view. The difference is that my sources of information aren't deliberately lying to me and getting me all worked up about stuff that isn't even remotely true.)

There's something about anger--not justifiable anger, which is a good thing, but lashing-out anger--that really appeals to a certain kind of person. My neighbor listens to Fox in his garage. How do I know, even before I walk by and can see, that it's Fox and not CNN? From the tone of their voices. A lot of MSNBC and CNN commentary is angry, but it's measured. It's about facts.

Anyway. I'm glad that the brainwashables' anger comes from a specific source, because that gives me a little shred of hope that they can change if that source changes, the way Germans changed after WWII.

What I really don't understand is why there isn't some major boycott of Fox advertisers. I'm not equipped to start one, but it sure seems as though MoveOn or somebody with a social presence should make it a huge focus of their work. Starve the beast. Fox, not CNN, not MSNBC, is still the main cause of all this hatred and divisiveness. If they weren't making a buck any more, they'd have to change or die.

[BComplex]

79. I've wondered the same thing. Seems like there should have been a boycott a long time ago.

It worked a little bit with rush limbaugh. I remember all his advertisers started leaving him for a while...Snapple was one, and I can't remember what else.

[sinkingfeeling]

24. Liberals don't have to try to make MF45 look bad, he does that himself.

[SammyWinstonJack]

86. He does that himself, like ordering "Live and Let Die" to be blasted while touring a factory making

masks while not wearing one himself, during a pandemic. Pretty callous and sadistic. God's chosen one? Sounds about right.

[Solomon]

28. Gee whiz. Where have you been for past, oh,

twenty years! Fox is brainwashing to a degree that Hitler couldn't even dream about.

You should take a look at the video produced about how it brainwashed an old man. When his family made him stop watching he finally returned to his normal self. Wish i could provide the link for you.

[BComplex]

39. There is really such a video?

I would love to see that!

[Mister Ed]

76. Here's the homepage for the documentary:

https://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/

And here's a link to the trailer on youtube:

[BComplex]

77. Thanks, Mr. Ed.

It looks like I have to pay to watch it, but I might just do that.

[Blecht]

29. Sorry for your loss

Losing a friend is terrible -- and you have lost her.

I wonder where she earned her Ph.D. ... She sure is not demonstrating any critical-thinking skills.

[BComplex]

65. Thank you for articulating that.

I usually do expect well-educated people to have good critical-thinking skills, and nobody that watches Fox has any of those left.

She earned her PhD at a State University.

[Totally Tunsie]

30. It's a shame to lose a friendship, but toxic people must be shed for your

peace and sanity.

I've been surprised over the recent years by the underlying feelings of several of those who I considered a friend, some for quite a long time. Previously there had been nothing this derisive to bring these deep-seated emotions to the fore, and the friendships flourished. Now? Well, Faux News has entitled their moron audience to spew their hatred without fear because their exalted leader does the same on a daily basis.

Better to let such friendships rest for a while. Maybe they'll return; maybe not. There needs to be a whole lot of healing in our land. It's getting dangerous out there.

I hope the rest of your day has a more positive and calming note to it. Breathe deeply and concentrate on the friendships you can trust and value. If you're so inclined, perhaps this old stand-by may be a moment of solace for you:

Serenity Prayer:
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Peace and good wishes...

[BComplex]

41. Thank you Tunsie.

When the world blows up around you, DUers understand.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

33. Don't blame Fox News

This person would most definitely be an ass hole with or without Fox News. Fox News just feeds the beast. She was just defective goods from the start. That is a failure of character, a failure of morality and a lack of critical thinking skills...and no doubt absolutely confident in the correctness of her views. What cult made her a minister?

[Downtown Hound]

45. Bingo!

We always try and excuse the individual by saying that Fox News made them this way, or Rush Limbaugh made them this way. No, being this way is a choice. Fox News didn't hold a gun to anybody's head and make them be a Trump cultist. They chose that path because somewhere inside of them the hate that Fox News tapped into was already there. And it's long past time we start holding individuals accountable for it.

I say this as someone who has lost several, life long friends over Trump. But the funny thing is, I don't miss them. I would rather spend my life with people who share my values. Anybody stupid enough or hateful enough to be taken in by Trump is not someone I'm proud to call a friend.

[Mariana]

47. Really.

This person is a minister. She's preaching this hatred and these lies.

[BComplex]

58. I think that was what shocked me so. That, and the contorted face, and the hatred in her eyes.

[Mariana]

60. Like I said elsewhere in the thread

this is pretty mainstream stuff. Many, many Christians in the US are like this now.

[BComplex]

62. They sure can't see the forest for the trees, can they?

I mean, how do you somehow twist the person of donald trump into someone sent "by God"? He is soulless.

[coti]

36. Sometimes friend picks end up being bad apples. nt

[BComplex]

43. Yep. And when you find out they are, it's sad.

Sad for me. Sad for her, but she probably doesn't know it.

[Initech]

40. Last week I found out one of my neighbors went to the Huntington Beach protest.

I wanted to scream "ARE YOU INSANE???" but then she kept spewing all kinds of crap about Gavin Newsom, and I pretty much answered my own question.

[BComplex]

46. Ouch! And yuck!

Gavin Newsom is Gavin Awesome.

[Initech]

75. Yeah once this is over I really got to find a new place to live.

I like my neighbors for the most part but I live among some hardcore Fox bots.

[Mariana]

42. Those are pretty mainstream Christian beliefs these days

The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016. Most of them will probably do it again in 2020, because they believe stuff like, "Trump is the chosen one of God, and when he's out of office, the liberals are going to start what the Bible says in Armageddon. These are the end days, and the liberals are the devil's pawns." This is what is being preached in a lot of the churches. Love of Trump and hatred for liberals/Democrats are literally tenets of their Christian faith.

They love Fox News because Fox News repeats back to them what they already believe. Fox News tells them what they want to hear. If Fox News ever started saying things they don't already agree with, they'd turn it right off.

[GoneOffShore]

81. There are some interesting studies about Christian evangelicals

Over on Quora, Habib Fanny connected some dots that you might find revealing.

https://qr.ae/pNy7wR

He references a 2018 study by the Voter Study Group -

https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/religious-trump-voters

[BComplex]

88. That is a fascinating study! Who woulda thunkit?

The more people go to church, the more they disagree with trump's policies, and the more empathic and tolerant they are to race, income, immigration, other religions.

There's some kind of disconnect, but I can't really put my finger on it. So it's the non-church-going radicals that are doing all the protesting and rebel-rousing.

[GoneOffShore]

91. So it would appear. I guess they're going to the Temple of pmurT.

[andym]

44. The current incarnation of Fox News must be "destroyed"

the only way might be the creation of a fairness doctrine for all media whether on cable or over the air.

[BComplex]

50. From your lips to God's ears, my friend.

What I wouldn't give to have the Fairness Doctrine back and improved.

[WhiskeyWulf]

48. I feel for you.

I have a couple of unavoidable Trump-cultists* in my life, one of whom repeatedly attempts to start political arguments with me even though I've said many times that I'm just not willing to discuss politics with him. There's no way to get through to them, because they don't care about evidence or proof; they watch Fox because it's emotionally satisfying, not because they offer truth. And I've pointed that out to this guy -- that he's letting Fox manipulate him emotionally even though their claims are easily debunked. Since he also thinks of himself as a Christian (though not active in any church), I've tried telling him that the Trump-worship is a form of idolatry. That should give an actual Christian pause, right? At least for a moment? But no. He just doesn't care. It's so frustrating. I'm sorry your friend is putting you through it, too.

*Studying cults has been a hobby of mine since I was in my early 20s, so about thirty years. I don't think it's exaggerating or inaccurate at all to describe right-wingers as a cult at this point.

[BComplex]

57. I won't be meeting her for lunch again, but she's part of my circle, like what you said.

I will have to see her again, and often, once we're back to being social again.

[Boomerproud]

73. Are others in your circle like-minded?

I work with people like her and it's a lonely feeling

[BComplex]

78. If they are, none of them have ever said those "key words" like you hear rightwingers say all the

time. One of them I'm pretty sure would be a rightwinger, just because of her job; but I might be stereotyping her. She's head of economic development for the county, so I kind of assume she might be. But she's never said anything.

And like I said, we're not all bosom buddies, so we don't talk much about personal things, except peripheral small talk. It's mostly just community support work.

[CrispyQ]

49. Those were almost the exact words a member of my family used:

"...The doctor puts the baby in her hands and she kills it!!!" Only my family member used the word execute. And that comment is what "corked it for me" with that family member. I will probably never talk to them again. Where did they hear this bullshit? Who believes a woman would carry a pregnancy to full term just to kill the baby once it's born? It's insanity.

[BComplex]

59. It is total insanity to believe something like that.

Manipulative brain-washing people who want to control women's bodies are the people who would push this kind of bullshit.

[Ms. Toad]

89. That's a variation I have not heard - they are getting more extreme.

Here's the more standard variation:

With a late-term abortion, "the mother meets with the doctor. They take care of the baby, they wrap the baby beautifully. And then the doctor and the mother determine whether or not they will execute the baby."

-Trump, April 27, Green Bay, Wisconsin rally

[CrispyQ]

90. So that's where they got it - from the mouth of president shithole.

[BGBD]

54. Dr. Minister?

that should be the tip off.

[Tipperary]

56. You have been "becoming " friends for a few years?

I actually do not quite understand that. But anyway, after a few years, is when you finally learned this?

[BComplex]

61. As I said above, it has been mostly professional, until she started being interested

in this guy. I know the guy, and she doesn't have a lot of our circle who know him, and she wants to talk about him. That's how we started to meet for lunch a couple of times before the coronavirus. Plus, she works out at my gym. So between our professional relationship and the circle of people we relate to over fund-raisers, the gym, and this guy...

We obviously weren't bosom buddies or I would have already known this about her.

[Bettie]

64. Trump has shown us who a lot of people really are

and it isn't pretty.

I blocked my brother today on Facebook (yes, I know...facebook) and plan never to speak to him again. He's always been something of an asshole, but he's now a Q-Anon acolyte as well as a Trumpkin and I just can't with that.

[mnmoderatedem]

66. you can't reason with someone like that but a reasonable retort...

"The liberals are trying to count all deaths as coronavirus to make trump look bad".

Uh, liberals don't NEED the coronavirus to make trump look bad. He beat us to the punch.

[brooklynite]

67. Don't blame Fox News, blame your friend...

There's no evidence that Fox turns liberals into conservatives; what it does is provide a platform for conservatives to hear things that reinforce their biases? If Fox stopped broadcasting tomorrow, their audience would find their way to OAN or talk radio shows.

[ecstatic]

71. How does faux news see things playing out?

If everyone were to become brainwashed by them, we would be a theocratic nation of really stupid people who reject science, are sick from pollution, and are mostly unemployed thanks to a trashed economy.

Public schools and healthcare? A thing of the past. Women would be barefoot, pregnant, and back in the kitchen, "where we belong."

How would that help their bottom line?

[Paladin]

74. Cut all ties with her, as soon as possible. Life is too short. (nt)

[Jamastiene]

80. They are so awful.

They are so belligerent and on the verge of violence at all times. I can't stand to be around them, but unfortunately, I am surrounded by them.

One thing that I have noticed and despise is that not all Trump supporters are Republicans. There are far too many Democrats where I live who support the most extremist, nonsensical garbage imaginable and they love Trump too. I don't get it. How can they be Democrats and actually like anything about the Trump admin? That is why I have a theory that a lot in the Democratic party are only here to keep us disrupted and vote against us at any and every turn they can.

Not only Fox, but AM radio, the preachers in a lot of churches (not all, but in a lot of them), and lots of influential people keep them brainwashed and believing outlandish conspiracy theories and ideas that could not be further from the truth.

[Dorian Gray]

82. The lack of critical thinking....

the lack of the ability to question what you see and read....

is causing all sorts of problems in this world of ours.

People jumping on whatever they see that supports their narratives without questioning the validity of it all.

Attacking others bc of it.

It's turning into the biggest problem in our society.

I'm sad.

[Mike Niendorff]

83. Honestly, just unfriend her and move on.

There are tons of sane people out there who don't see you as a baby-killing harbinger of Armageddon.

Nobody needs "friends" like this.


MDN

[eShirl]

84. Ask her who would Jesus hate?

[struggle4progress]

85. Why do top administration officials get tested daily, and why do White House aides wear masks?

[UCmeNdc]

87. I keep saying that Propaganda is working for the GOP and Trump. Take away FOX News and they

have nothing. if Fox news offered any counter information to its audience Trump and the GOP would cave. Propaganda works.