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[gibraltar72]

This message was self-deleted by its author (gibraltar72) on Mon May 4, 2020, 11:25 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Hekate]

1. I am glad management took this very seriously

[TheBlackAdder]

26. You call someone a See You Next Tuesday and place your hand on a firearm, that's assault.

[smirkymonkey]

2. This is just out of control.

I fear that it is only going to get worse. This is not about masks. This is political for them. It's about who is winning the culture wars and they are starting to feel like they are losing the "upper hand", if they ever even had it. They know they are wrong, and they know Trump is wrong, but they can't face it so they are doubling down. This won't end well.

[gibraltar72]

4. Afraid you are right

I love it when people are proactive. My local grocer has been way out front on the c 19 protections both for customers and employees. Early on he suggested masks, also the service type departments he eliminated employee customer contact and severely limited hours. The meat, deli and other departments are not manned during working hours they prepare the stuff at night put it out and that's that. The other day he issued a message that all customers had to wear masks. He said if you don't have one we will have one for you and you will be escorted directly to customer service where you will pay two dollars for it.

[leighbythesea2]

30. I think so

It feels like a lethal extension, to everyone, of hating millennials for talking about triggering or any other "lets be thoughtful for one another" attitude that had developed. Across the board, not just the young. The attempts to be more civilized made everyone "snowflakes". And now the mask is symbolic of our collective concern. So, they have to hate it, rail against it, because it represents that. Except now death is attached, and they couldnt be happier. Because it strikes fear, by simply not complying.

[yuiyoshida]

37. With 50 thousand dead? Its just the beginning...

Before the election 100 thousand will be dead if they listen to Trump. Let them try and carry an AR-15, Covid 19 doesn't care, it can't be shot... but it will kill them. I suspect many in the FOX NEWS generation and Magats...will be dead.

[roamer65]

41. THIS.

[unblock]

3. That likely constitutes assault with a deadly weapon

Not sure about Michigan law specifically, but likely, putting a hand on a gun or even just pointing out that you're carrying, especially combined with an aggressive, defiant statement, likely legally constitutes a threat involving a deadly weapon.

Maybe there's a lesser crime for mere "brandishing"

[gibraltar72]

6. Yeah I'm sure that is covered somewhere in Mi. law. The baggers went

berserk here in changing the laws. My little C 19 hotspot in the last few months made the county a sanctuary county. Not for people but for guns. I guess just in case sensible gun laws are passed they think they can exempt the county.

[Kaleva]

7. Menards allows open carry in the store?

[gibraltar72]

12. These bastards are emboldened They believe they can do anything they want.

I don't think they do. But they think they can get away with anything.

[Kaleva]

17. Unless Menards has signs near the entrances of the store prohibiting open carry on the premises,...

then it's legal to do so. Your SIL would know if the store she works at allows open carry or not.

[gibraltar72]

19. My daughter relayed what she was told by my SIL.

The point is they are fucking nuts. The asshole may have been referring to Governor. Not the first time I've heard that shit since her first order. The threat is real.

[spudspud]

22. He could probably be charged with brandishing a firearm.

See Section 750.234e of Michigan's statutes. Seems like it's only a misdemeanor though with up to 90 days jail time.

[Kaleva]

27. Maybe but it'd be hard to prove that it was his intent to threaten

Drawing a weapon and aiming it at someone satisfies the intent requirement but just patting a holstered gun may not convince a jury.

"According to MCL §750.222(c), the term “brandishing” as used in this statute refers to pointing, waving, or displaying a firearm with the intent to cause fear in another person."

https://baronedefensefirm.com/michigan-gun-lawyer/brandishing-a-firearm-in-public/

[spudspud]

29. Might be, but the original post info, if accurate...

should convince any reasonable jury, assuming they believe the woman.

Key part of the original post: "He put his hand on his gun and said no fucking cunt was gonna tell him what to do." There's your brandishing. He threatened her and put his hand on his weapon, with the clear intent to cause fear.

Then, we have some evidence that she in turn felt threatened because "She keyed her walkie and several employees came to her aid. She informed manager she wasn't going to put her life on line for Menards." That followed by the posting of the armed guard within an hour or so. I'm pretty sure it would be an easy case. It would never go to trial as his PD would plead for a fine, etc.

[Kaleva]

32. Michigan law is tricky

If the person was conceal carrying and opened his jacket or pulled up his shirt to expose the weapon while he said such, then that could be considered brandishing because intent to instill fear or to intimidate is clear. Open carry is something else. If the person clearly gripped the gun, giving the impression he was ready to draw it, instead of just putting his hand on it as described in the OP, maybe you'd have something.

We should also remember that Michigan is a gun friendly state and charging the gun owner may not result in a slam dunk conviction. The PA may not even bring charges.

Your comment

"Then, we have some evidence that she in turn felt threatened "

The key is proving the that it was the intent of the gun owner to instill fear. The lady feeling threatened doesn't satisfy that requirement.

"According to MCL §750.222(c), the term “brandishing” as used in this statute refers to pointing, waving, or displaying a firearm with the intent to cause fear in another person."

https://baronedefensefirm.com/michigan-gun-lawyer/brandishing-a-firearm-in-public/

[Hermit-The-Prog]

36. The "or displaying" could be enough for some prosecutors.

[Kaleva]

47. Again, one has to prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt and that's hard to do.

Had he drawn the gun and pointed it at her, that would have shown intent to instill fear or if he had threatened to shoot her and put his hand on the gun.

There's also the issue of trying to prove that the man actually did place his hand on the gun.

[roamer65]

43. Definite brandishing.

If he has a CPL, it will get it revoked.

[Kaleva]

48. Doubt it because apparently this wasn't reported to the police.

[jmowreader]

16. That stupid fucking open carry law they have in Michigan allows them to carry just about anywhere

It was bad law, it is now worse law, and it needs to be repealed, tout suite.

[Kaleva]

18. Michigan law allows private businesses to prohibit open carry on their premises

[LisaM]

20. My boyfriend had an encounter with an armed shopper

in Seattle. He was getting on an elevator from the parking lot that is clearly labelled "One household.at anytime" and a guy with a gun and visible ammunition got on with him.

[Rebl2]

21. I don't

know about MI, but you can open carry in MO and conceal carry as well. I have only seen open carry once. It was a nicely dressed man checking out at a drug store. Found it rather odd.

[Kaleva]

24. One can open or conceal carry in Mi where allowed by law.

Private establishments can prohibit open carry on their property if they choose to do so.

I live in Upper Michigan and have yet to see anyone open carry.

[cab67]

35. I encountered people openly carrying sidearms in Tucson.

They were invariably elderly white men. And this was nearly always at a grocery store.

[captain queeg]

5. I hope they banned that asshole

Maybe they couldn’t arrest him. Or maybe they could. There should be repercussions for these impotent fools.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

8. Maybe I'm just too old for this world,

but WHEN did it become acceptable for men to spew that insulting, disgusting word at women ?

[Kaleva]

9. Back in the day when it was legal for a man to rape his wife.

[LuvNewcastle]

11. It still isn't acceptable.

Any man who would say that word in anger to some woman he doesn't even know must have a problem with women in general.

[Takket]

10. he should be charged, and his guns should all be confiscated

once you commit a crime with a gun you should no longer have the right to own one

[smirkymonkey]

39. +1000

[cwydro]

13. I kind of always thought Michigan was a pretty cool state.

Met many people from there when I lived in the Keys. I always thought Minnesota sounded like a nice place too. Met many Minnesotans in the Keys too. Always nice folks.

Hmm, maybe that’s why they left. So many posts here about what seem to be really vile people up there, who stalk mask-wearing Dems in grocery stores...yikes!

I no longer have any interest in visiting many of these states. Sad places with sad people. I really had no idea.

[gibraltar72]

14. The baggers ruined this state.

Racist vile people. Republicans dance to their tunes.

[leighbythesea2]

33. I grew up there

And i have mixed feelings. Bought a house (from Florida, so at time qualified as a vacation home lol) near my mom just to be set up to help her. Was gone 18 years.
I cant say I was pleasantly suprised. Heartbroken is better description. I guess i changed. Ive become too liberal for west Michigan. Have a house in another state. Prefer that.

I lived in key west the first time in fla. I still think mid westerners are nice, overall. But i started unfriending the fb high school connections that are mad at the governor. Its a good benchmark.

OH AND, grand rapids has the 9th fastest growing COVID spike in the US. This is new. My poor hc worker friend posted---west Michigan is spiking 3x state average.

[llmart]

34. Like any other state, Michigan has good people.

The Republicans of the past couple of decades have emboldened these idiots and like gibraltar said, the teabaggers got a lot of attention because of their hatefilled rhetoric. When I moved here I remember reading a statistic that said Michiganders were the most likely people who have never lived anywhere else but in Michigan. Their worlds are very, very small especially those who live outside the tri-county area and "Up North".

[mvd]

15. These Trump nuts are everyone

Here in SE PA I was at Wawa, and there was a near accident in the parking lot. The probable Trump nut in one of the cars shouted out, “you couldn’t see with your mask on?” Just terrible.

[SheltieLover]

23. Glad she is ok!

This is, I believe, the direct result of not locking them up for domestic terrorism when blocking hospital ambulance entry road.

Coddling is enabling, which serves only to embolden them.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

25. too many 2nd Amendment notions are itchin' to shoot someone.

They've been primed like a pump and must figure the time has come. Surely Covid-19 his the tyrannical virus they've spent all their money on guns to protect them from.

[KPN]

28. You are absolutely right.

These “fine people” ARE fucking nuts!

[blakstoneranger]

31. THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T MOVE THE ROCK

The rock is there for a reason, to keep all the nutjobs from crawling out. Trump moved the rock. He is so desparate for "fans" he moved the rock and now we have this. Every smart president knows--YOU DON'T MOVE THE ROCK!!

[roamer65]

38. This is why the Michigan National Guard needs to be put in charge of the state capitol grounds.

These freaks are being emboldened by the shit that is going on there. Gov Whitmer needs to call them in and crack down hard.

Best thing police did in Oregon during Malheur was shot that stupid fuck Finicum dead.

[smirkymonkey]

40. Absolutely! These people have become much too bold and are a danger to society.

They need to be reigned in and tought a lesson. Personally, I wouldn't care if they were all shot dead. They should be made an example.

[roamer65]

42. I think I am going to buy pepper spray.

If anyone threatens me about wearing a mask, then I will pepper spray their face.

[roamer65]

44. I just bought it and I am gonna carry it.

[smirkymonkey]

45. Probably not a bad idea.

These people have become much too bold and too hostile. If government won't push back on them, then we need to take things in our own hands. However, be careful.

You never know who you are dealing with and how willing they are to use lethal force. It's best to walk away if you think they are going to get violent. If they are carrying, I would advise you to just get away from them as quickly as possible

[Fla Dem]

50. Totally agree. Should ban all except those that have business there.

Those terrorist s/h/b arrested on the spot and their guns taken from them.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

46. I hope Menards staff sent the security video to the police for review.

With a threat and a hand on the gun, this moron likely committed crimes serious enough to get jail time, and lose his guns forever. The local prosecutor should be involved.

[warmfeet]

49. They are nuts and complete, fucking, assholes.

They put lives in danger and need to be stopped.

[Daxter]

51. I am from Michigan

These idiots do not represent all of us from the fine state of Michigan. These idiots are in the minority and hopefully the ideology in which they are subscribed to will no longer exist in this country.

Your daughter did the right thing, the money isn’t worth dying for. Also, bully’s like that prey on women and others that they perceive as weak, a hand on the pistol is a clear intimidation tactic. I would also encourage your daughter to look into self-defense classes. I always recommend boxing on case of defending from multiple attackers, but if she isn’t comfortable with striking then Brazilian jiu-jitsu is the way to go. So if some idiot tries something like that, she can defend herself and not give that idiot the opportunity to even attempt drawing his weapon.

[gibraltar72]

52. OK I said my daughter relayed info from My SIL who works at Menards.

My daughter is not the employee in question. Yes the baggers have nearly ruined Michigan. Our gun laws are insane.