This message was self-deleted by its author

[A HERETIC I AM]

This message was self-deleted by its author (A HERETIC I AM) on Fri May 1, 2020, 04:17 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[mr_lebowski]

1. Won't be catching any rotten tomatoes from my direction ... I'll leave it at that ... (nt)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Couldn't agree more, my dear HERETIC!

You've said it better than I could.

We're not about to dump our nominee at this point! That would be stupid and ridiculous.

And it's not going to make us vote for that thing.

We are going to carry on, and vote for Joe in November, goddamn it.

[Stuart G]

3. that thing....will lose in November...Joe will win.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I sure hope you're right, my dear Stuart G. I'm counting on that fact. Doing all I can. n/t

[Tumbulu]

4. I just unfriended two friends on Facebook over this

As I cannot handle them piling on Biden. I must add that they were complete Bernie nuts, so I have this strong feeling that again, it is coming from the Russians. Through bernie’s organizations.

[Wounded Bear]

9. Dems always seem to have to fight on two fronts...

[Squinch]

53. How stupid must they be? They WANT the alternative?

[crickets]

59. "coming from the Russians. Through bernie's organizations." 8 Ball says: "Signs point to yes." nt

[BGBD]

5. The good news is

that you don't actually have to make that choice because the things she is claiming aren't true.

[questionseverything]

12. exactly

[crickets]

60. Thank you. nt

[Wounded Bear]

7. I refuse to cede the moral high ground to Trump...

I just won't.

[global1]

14. How Can Anyone Cede The Moral High Ground To Trump?....

He's a serial sexual assaulter and the king sexual predator. Remember his bus talk. How could anyone think Trump has any 'moral high ground'?

[Wounded Bear]

21. Yeah, tell that to his supporters...

[Sugarcoated]

26. He likely RAPED TWO 13 YEAR OLD GIRLS

That filth is PEDOPHILE....just sayin

[agingdem]

8. couldn't agree more

love Biden...and to be honest, I would crawl over glass to vote for a folding chair if that folding chair was the Democratic nominee

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. I would vote for the folding chair if the folding chair was the nominee for the...

"Folding Chairs in a Room Covered in Shards of Glass" Party.

It would STILL be a better president than fucking Trumpy.

[sfstaxprep]

11. Frankly, He Could Shoot Someone On 5th Avenue

He would still be WAY better than Drumpf.

[Sugarcoated]

27. ...and not matter how it looked

I know Joe would have a reason

[smirkymonkey]

13. +1000

[dawg day]

15. I'm not going to judge what the truth is-- all I know--

I remember some African-American attorney (Elie Mistal?) saying about Biden/Bernie how it wasn't that difficult a decision between two old white men, because neither one of them was likely to be all that progressive about race issues, and so you might as well just accept that lack of variety for a moment.

As a baby boomer woman, I really really wish we'd goddamn nominate a woman and get past these goddamn baby boom men with their "complicated" issues with gender and choice and the patriarchy and privilege and all that. Been there for 60 years, done that for 60 years, and really, really tired of it.

But the choice isn't between some old white guy who doesn't realize that grabbing pssy isn't allowed anymore and a great pro-choice equality-raised person (who could be a woman), but two old white guys, one of who is a vicious and stupid thug who has proved himself to be a monster and sociopath, and another guy.

I'm sorry if this sounds cynical. But we know we can't pick and choose here. We can only choose.

And for goodness sake, really, next time, can we leave the boomer guys behind? They had a difficult time-- it's got to be hard to be raised thinking you will rule the world just because you're white and have a Y chromosome, and then find out you'll have to fight for everything because there are women and non-whites who get a chance too.

But it's time to get past the difficult psychological conflicts of the loss of privilege and get on with some people who aren't mired in all that. (Clinton-- the sex groan stuff. Bush 2-- that damned warmongering and the passivity to the daddy figure Cheney. Obama, well, non-white, and he was lucky enough to be influenced by strong women and glad of it. He wasn't so mired.)

I wish it could be a boomer woman-- God knows, we earned that-- but we had that chance last time and it was stolen by, yeah, the guy and his Russian boss. We are so used to that (not the Russian part, but the getting cheated of what we earned part). Soon it will be time for a new gen, but to get there, we need to sigh go with one more mired-up old white guy.

Biden: The road to 2024.

[LizBeth]

18. I really really wish we'd goddamn nominate a woman and get past these goddamn baby boom men

I agree. I agree with the whole post, but yes. I am so damn tired of it being at the woman's expense.

[cwydro]

54. This.

Warren, Harris, Klobuchar...any of them would not have these kind of allegations thrown at them.

And any one of them would be a fine president.

[PatrickforO]

33. This boomer guy supported Warren. Please don't generalize.

I hate that two old white guys are facing off in the most important election in my lifetime. But that's the way it is.

I supported Warren, but also liked Buttigieg, Klobuchar and Booker.

But at this point we have Biden. He's in a basement because of the social distancing and his people are trying to figure out a safe way for him to hit the campaign trail.

We all have to help in whatever way we can because Trump is a demon in human form. My Siamese cat would be a better president.

Next time, yeah, TIME FOR A WOMAN. No doubt there. Look at Angela Merkel - the new leader of the Free World (Trump is not worthy of being called that). Merkel is a great head of state. I don't always agree with her any more than I did with Obama, but she's a really good leader.

[dawg day]

38. I know-- I hate generalizing, but it's just so enervating--

good grief, ANOTHER SEX SCANDAL?

I'm ready to move on.

And I'd happily vote for your Siamese! Love cats, and love Siamese, and have to quote the song--

We are Siamese if you please. We are Siamese if you don't please!

I love that arrogance.

[calimary]

42. Evidently the accuser didn't pass the Ronan Farrow test.

I read that the guy who broke the Harvey Weinstein story interviewed the accuser in depth, as did the two NY Times writers who won the Pulitzer Prize for their coverage of Weinstein’s downfall. And they found nothing but inconsistencies and factual inaccuracies in her story. And none of them chose to pursue it.

They’d know. If any one of those three said there’s nothing there, that’s good enough for me.

I just think it’s awfully fishy. Joe Biden has been around for a long time. Several decades of high profile positions and public exposure. He’s just never shown himself to be that kind of guy. That kind of behavior was never there. All the women who worked with him or worked for him in his Senate offices over all those years - not one of them ever lodged a complaint. There would have been rumors and whispers all over Capitol Hill.

Nothing. I don’t believe this accuser. She surfaces at a most suspicious time. I smell a Russian - or maybe Roger Stone.

[LizBeth]

16. I betcha Trump supporters say even if he assaulted and raped 29 women and girls, I do not care. Nah

I would care if it was true. I will vote Biden and one of the reasons is I do not think this has legs for so many reasons. But ya, I would care if he sexually assaulted a woman. I think it is sad that anywhere here feels it would not matter.

[democrattotheend]

19. I care

If he actually did what she's accusing him of (which I don't think he did), he should not be our nominee. Period. End of story.

How we would go about replacing him is debatable, and it would be messy. Bernie hasn't gotten a large enough share of the vote to have a strong claim to the nomination just for being the last one to drop out, but if the Democrats did anything else you know it will cause an uproar with his supporters. The fairest way would probably be to let the states that haven't voted yet decide, and giving the states that already voted the option to hold a new primary if they want. Not ideal, and I don't think it will come to that because I don't think Biden did what she's accusing him of. But we should all be able to agree that if he actually assaulted this woman, he should not be the nominee.

[qwlauren35]

58. What would please me

Would be if he deferred to his VP in January.

Changing mid-stream is a mess, and only if we were to pick Cuomo would we have a chance. And I don't think New Yorkers want to give him up.

[Greybnk48]

20. I don't care either what he did 27 years ago. I want rid of the pack of trash in the White House

I want rid of the pack of trash in the White House AND the Senate.

I'm comfortable with who Joe Biden is given his conduct over the past almost 30 years.

BTW: I was team Bernie until Joe won.

[not fooled]

32. Yeah

as I heard someone say recently (sorry, I can't remember his name for attribution) re red don vs. Biden: "Vote for the person who isn't actively trying to kill you."

Basically, this is a life or death situation we have now. Hierarchy of Needs in effect.

[Ruby the Liberal]

22. Thank you.

Agree completely. This election defines life and death choices.

[Cha]

23. Obama is perhaps the most meticulous POTUS we've ever had..

Link to tweet

[PatrickforO]

34. Good point. I remember when O first got elected and put out the word

he wanted good people. He didn't mess around, and the requirements were strict. No skeletons. If Biden passed that, we're good. I had forgotten.

[Cha]

39. Exactly.. Mahalo, PatrickforO.

[LizBeth]

55. There was no accusation out there with Biden's name on it so Obama would not have found it.

Am I correct? Two things. Doesn't work since Obama didn't find it and waiting until basically after our primary to make the accusation almost 3 decades later.

[tinrobot]

24. I said it in the primaries and my position hasn't changed. Vote blue no matter who. Period.

If Biden is on the ballot this fall, he gets my vote.

End of discussion.

[Moostache]

25. Time for Math with Moostache...

1 shaky claim of sexual assault against Biden

29 against Trump (that are known, likely many times that total in reality - and FAR more substantial claims at that)
HUNDREDS or maybe THOUSANDS of kids in cages and families destroyed at the border
63,000 DEAD
1,300,000 Infected now
30,000,000 Unemployed

1 terrified, at-risk, pissed off voter (ME)

Unless or until Trump stands trial for EVERYTHING, I don't care what claims against Biden are short of actual proof.
There is no ceding of moral high ground or principled stands to be had here, maybe without the math above, I would be bothered more by allegations and innuendos, but I have to be honest, with a ledger this out of balance, my primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary concern is Trump losing, period.

I would vote for Satan himself and all the demons of imaginary hell over TRUMP...period.
I am NOT playing the pseudo-shame game like this is Al Franken all over again.
If anyone does not like that, you're welcome to you opinion and a poor one of me, I just don't care about it even a billionth as much as I care about seeing Trump frog-walked out of 1600, defeated, disgraced and doomed.

[Sugarcoated]

28. THANK YOU

[PatrickforO]

37. I bookmarked this thread just for your post here.

I will put this out on places like the Hill whenever a troll posts the lie about Reade. Cha brings up a really good point: When O was elected in 08 he put out the word for people and they had strict requirements, strict vetting. No way, if the Reade thing actually happened, would Biden have been VP. No way.

To my mind, that puts him in the clear.

[PatrickforO]

29. I'm cool. No argument here. Our guy is not perfect by a long shot,

but he is a) sane, and b) not a demon in human form.

I'll crawl over broken glass to vote for him - not because I'm excited about him, but because we need a decent person in the White House.

By the way, if you go on The Hill, you will find trolls posting one sentence things about Tara Reade. Over and over and over and over and over and over.

So, yeah, it is a right wing meme. It is all they have.

[mvd]

30. I agree. But, it would be so unlike Biden..

to violate someone so seriously. I do not believe the accusation for one second.

[Indykatie]

31. They Can Lock Me Up With You. I'm Gonna Work My Ass Off For Biden Even If He Confesses.

[pnwmom]

35. She had her chance to come forward.

She had 27 years worth of chances.

But this election is our country's last chance.

[hangaleft]

36. Joe was my sixth choice

I won’t vote for him enthusiastically. But I will yank that lever as hard as I can against that miscreant currently squatting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I’d vote for a pile of dog shit if it were our nominee to run against Trump.

In all candor, I haven’t been paying attention and have no idea what the allegations against Biden are. And I. Don’t. Care. Unless there is compelling, conclusive, incontrovertible proof that Joe Biden has committed a heinous crime against humanity, he will get my vote.

Let me be crystal clear — I want Trump OUT.

End of discussion.

P.S. I’d even vote for Biden if she shot someone on Fifth Avenue at high noon.

[The Magistrate]

40. Hear Hear, Sir!

We must get it through our collective heads that they cannot effectively assail our political figures without our help. Well-meaning, good-hearted people who tend to the left need to learn not to allow their better natures to be taken advantage of by vicious scum on the right, and splinterest wreckers on the far left, who enlist them in their charges against figures of the center left, by exhorting them to 'be consistent' and telling them 'don't be hypocrites'. The proper response to attempts at this is a hearty "Fuck off! Nobody cares what a rancid piece of dogshit like you thinks!" Or words to that effect....

Only attack the enemy, the christo-fascist right.

Never, ever, attack people who are on your side.

If you want one quick reason why the right wing wields power well out of proportion to the popularity of its policies, it is that they adhere to this rule, and we on the left do not.


"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."

[morillon]

41. The accusation just doesn't hold water, IMO

And I say that as a survivor of multiple sexual assaults and one rape. The people I've known who did that kind of thing were habitual violators over many years. They got away with it their entire lives because other men protected them, and most women were too afraid to speak up. But the stories were everywhere. Just about every woman who came in contact with them for any length of time had horror stories, not about an unwelcome hug or inappropriate comment (which, yes, aren't great), but stuff ranging from flagrantly skeezy behavior up to and including rape.

I don't buy him as a serial sexual harasser and hallway finger banger for one second, and my radar for that shit has been fine-tuned for about 5 decades.

It smells like Russian and Trumpian ratfuckery, and I'm disappointed that any fellow liberal or progressive would fall for it.

[tirebiter]

43. Trump renders the charges irrelevant

What we're seeing here is a last gasp of Sanders fans unwilling to accept reality and abusing #MeToo in the process.

[Garion_55]

44. when he wins and that shitbird is gone from the white house.....

lets have a real discussion about this womans claims, i am 100% for that.

[Kablooie]

45. If he made one accidental mistake 30 years ago, well, he's not qualified to be president.

While the ass that has made that same mistake and worse, over and over, on purpose, for his whole life, is?

[reggaehead]

46. I'm with you. And him.

Here's the deal and there is no getting around it. Whether the accusations are true or not, she is about 3 years too late for the #MeToo movement. She had nearly 40 years to make this public and she chooses now. Why now? She suddenly feels empowered. Or is it she wants to sabotage Joe's campaign because she is a freaking #buster. And why does it come out when Bernie suspends his campaign. #IdoNotTrustThatWoman.

[COLGATE4]

47. This kind of sexual assaulter does not do it

only once. If these allegations were true there would certainly be more instances of it during Joe's highly visible political career. And, of course not to mention the many times Joe has been vetted, not the least of which when Obama decided on him for V.P. It strains the bounds of credulity to believe that he decided to sexually assault one of his staff in the Senate HALLWAY during a normal day at the office, And is further strains those bounds to believe that, having done so in such a highly visible violation with apparently zero concern by being seen by anyone walking down the hall he then was so satisfied that he decided never to do it again during the following 27 years.

To use an old legal term, BULLSHIT.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Vote for Biden like your life depends on it because it does.

[duforsure]

49. From seeing this happen to others from putin and trump

Where they manufacture someone accusing their opponents of something , I think this story she's telling will fall apart , and she'll be exposed . I wonder how much they paid her to so this.

[Wanderlust988]

50. I WANT LIBERAL JUDGES!!

And I'll be damned if Tara Reade is gonna cause us to have to deal with a 7-2 republican court majority!!

[betsuni]

51. They're trying to make this about one person, Joe Biden.

Like they did last time, making it all about one person, Hillary Clinton. When obviously it's about putting Democrats back in power.

[Squinch]

52. Totally agree. And many consider me a rabid feminist.

Though I find her completely uncredible.

[LizBeth]

56. But as a rabid feminist wouldn't you be pissed being put in this position to have to vote

for a man that did this? But, thankfully we are not in that position because she so lacks credibility across the board? As a feminist, as a woman, I will not dismiss this act as inconsequential but I do not have to at this point because most of the evidence points to it did not happen.

[qwlauren35]

61. *IF* he did it.

As someone who has been through it, I would vote for him anyway.

It would hurt. It would hurt deep. But as I said to the man-child who assaulted me: "Don't do it again, or I will hunt you down and destroy you."

I look for pattern. Someone with no remorse, someone who does it over and over. Like the guy in Georgia.

If two women came forward, spaced a few years apart, I would see a pattern, and it REALLY hurt to vote for him, and I would push for him to step down in February.

[LizBeth]

63. This. I agree. And the whole fingering thing during that time was a whole different thing,

a game and a giggle to a lot of men and boys. But, I agree. Patterns matter. We aren't seeing it all these decades of the spotlight and so much of the story is contradiction to accusation. But, I agree with you. I am not going to dismiss it as irrelevant though, like people are on this thread. But it is a whole different story than rape, and that is getting honest about the conversation.

[Squinch]

66. And hence my description of it as uncredible.

[LizBeth]

67. Right.

[Brainfodder]

57. Well well, the husband did it instead, perhaps?

Sad dumbfuckery, glad it wasn't remotely true.

SO, Republicans, what's your next one?

[iwannaknow]

62. It's not too late to replace him.

Not saying he should be replaced, but he is the PRESUMPTIVE nominee, not the ACTUAL nominee.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

64. "Yes to sexual attackers, as long as he's OUR sexual attacker!" is quite a slogan.

[Dr. Strange]

65. Raping multiple women is disgusting and must be comdemned.

If you are going to rape, then it should be done in moderation.

Maybe it's time to bring back the hashtag #ThisIsRapeCulture.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

70. "Don't like rape? We offer an overly familiar disregard for your personal space!"

[Squinch]

68. Bernie still lost. Deal.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

69. Trust that I didn't love any of the candidates.

Criticism of a candidate is not backhanded support for a different candidate.

[Squinch]

71. And yet patterns indicate preferences.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. Pretty sure I criticized all of them back when the Primary forum was around.

But I get it, people like to look for patterns.

[Paladin]

72. In all my years, I've never voted for a perfect presidential candidate.

That won't change, this time around.

Whatever his actions, Biden is light years better than trump in every imaginable category. Joe Biden has my full support. After what we went through in 2016, I view efforts to bring Biden down with a very suspicious eye. This time around, it comes down to the basic issue of national and personal survival. Let's do this.

[Hav]

74. This is a horrible thread

You let the Biden bashers on DU use this as an excuse to pretend as if we protect rapists as long as they are on our team. Don't feed them.
Don't go to hypotheticals when Reade's story is such a clear case of bs. Why can't we just concentrate on the facts? There are many good threads here that show what a fraud Reade is and you don't see her apologists in these threads argue the facts. But there are too many threads on DU concerning this topic that ignore the easiest approach and use arguments that make us look really bad.

[demmiblue]

75. Of course you don't...

as a woman who has received an abusive DU mail message from you, I am totally not surprised.

That said, I don't believe her and support VP Biden.

[A HERETIC I AM]

76. I'm going to delete, but here's the OP:

I'm gonna say it; I don't care one iota if every single accusation against Biden is true. I don't.


He wasn't my first choice, but I'll be god damned if he isn't fucking miles and miles ahead of Trumpy as far as being qualified to do the job.


I just don't give two shits right now, frankly, and anyone who is thinking they won't vote for him because of these allegations is missing the entire fucking point.

If anyone thinks this is a legitimate reason to not vote for Joe Biden, you are being intentionally led down a path!

If he assaulted her, or if he did anything untoward, then that sucks, it is horrible and if it is true, then Mr. Vice President needs to apologize and make amends.

But even if it is, Joe Biden is hands down a better fit for the job than Trumpy is by ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, any day of the week!

Here's the pillory. Lock me in it and have at me;



I deleted because this has run it's course