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Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:41 PM

Just read something truly remarkable about the Romney family ...

... if indeed it is true. In a comment on Andrew Rosenthal's Editor's Blog in The New York Times, someone pointed out that there has not been a single military veteran in five generations of Romneys (here's a link to the comment: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/republican-turf/?comments#permid=18 ). How many American families have not had a a son, brother, father, uncle, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc., who has served? If this claim is, indeed, true, it would appear the Romney family has some explaining to do.

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Reply Just read something truly remarkable about the Romney family ... (Original post)
markpkessinger Sep 2012 OP
lunatica Sep 2012 #1
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #4
lunatica Sep 2012 #7
George II Sep 2012 #116
Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #48
Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #86
Moonwalk Sep 2012 #2
broiles Sep 2012 #15
Brickbat Sep 2012 #19
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #26
greatauntoftriplets Sep 2012 #27
starroute Sep 2012 #56
mountain grammy Sep 2012 #61
Javaman Sep 2012 #99
LynneSin Sep 2012 #111
GentryDixon Sep 2012 #3
Barack_America Sep 2012 #90
llamos Sep 2012 #98
Marrah_G Sep 2012 #96
Little Star Sep 2012 #5
virgogal Sep 2012 #6
barbtries Sep 2012 #59
Supersedeas Sep 2012 #115
Misskittycat Sep 2012 #8
hifiguy Sep 2012 #9
Brother Buzz Sep 2012 #10
littlemissmartypants Sep 2012 #11
progressivebydesign Sep 2012 #12
chknltl Sep 2012 #49
FreeState Sep 2012 #62
icarusxat Sep 2012 #71
WooWooWoo Sep 2012 #79
treestar Sep 2012 #13
Ednahilda Sep 2012 #72
treestar Sep 2012 #80
LiberalArkie Sep 2012 #14
kestrel91316 Sep 2012 #16
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #28
Skidmore Sep 2012 #17
riverwalker Sep 2012 #22
eShirl Sep 2012 #38
eShirl Sep 2012 #25
riverwalker Sep 2012 #18
panader0 Sep 2012 #20
Courtesy Flush Sep 2012 #21
riverwalker Sep 2012 #33
Aviation Pro Sep 2012 #43
calimary Sep 2012 #54
PCIntern Sep 2012 #57
OneGrassRoot Sep 2012 #70
Initech Sep 2012 #23
lame54 Sep 2012 #24
Travis_0004 Sep 2012 #29
riverwalker Sep 2012 #34
HangOnKids Sep 2012 #35
hedgehog Sep 2012 #51
mountain grammy Sep 2012 #65
uponit7771 Sep 2012 #91
bullwinkle428 Sep 2012 #94
heaven05 Sep 2012 #118
Blue Idaho Sep 2012 #30
malokvale77 Sep 2012 #41
littlemissmartypants Sep 2012 #31
tularetom Sep 2012 #32
sad sally Sep 2012 #36
greendog Sep 2012 #37
Siwsan Sep 2012 #39
Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #40
riverwalker Sep 2012 #42
Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #45
riverwalker Sep 2012 #55
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #73
Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #81
Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #44
Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #46
sakabatou Sep 2012 #47
Sheepshank Sep 2012 #50
Blue_In_AK Sep 2012 #52
TNLib Sep 2012 #53
byeya Sep 2012 #58
Turbineguy Sep 2012 #60
SoapBox Sep 2012 #63
RebelOne Sep 2012 #64
trailmonkee Sep 2012 #66
LiberalCatholic Sep 2012 #67
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #78
riverwalker Sep 2012 #68
LittlestStar Sep 2012 #75
riverbendviewgal Sep 2012 #69
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #74
SDjack Sep 2012 #76
pinboy3niner Sep 2012 #92
PearliePoo2 Sep 2012 #77
cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #82
Kablooie Sep 2012 #83
grantcart Sep 2012 #84
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #87
grantcart Sep 2012 #85
K8-EEE Sep 2012 #93
grantcart Sep 2012 #101
tavalon Sep 2012 #88
KurtNYC Sep 2012 #89
Marrah_G Sep 2012 #95
a la izquierda Sep 2012 #97
Javaman Sep 2012 #100
dothemath Sep 2012 #102
Ganja Ninja Sep 2012 #103
mwooldri Sep 2012 #104
bayareaboy Sep 2012 #105
chloes1 Sep 2012 #106
catbyte Sep 2012 #107
defacto7 Sep 2012 #108
heaven05 Sep 2012 #109
flyguyjake Sep 2012 #110
FlaGranny Sep 2012 #112
George II Sep 2012 #113
George II Sep 2012 #114
harmonicon Sep 2012 #117
BlueMTexpat Sep 2012 #119
markpkessinger Sep 2012 #122
Kurovski Sep 2012 #120
WCGreen Sep 2012 #121

Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:42 PM

1. His grandfather being in Mexico explains one generation

Romney and his father make two more generations, so that makes three.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:44 PM

4. His sons account for 4 generations . . .

. . . and his grandchildren are probably mostly too young to have served. But even limiting it to four generations, my question still stands: how many American families have had no one serve in four generations?

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:48 PM

7. My father and uncle served in WWII and Korea and my brother in Vietnam

My son did not serve as the military was all volunteer by then.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:43 PM

116. My Family?

Father served in the US Army in WWII, uncle served in the Canadian military in WWII, other uncle served in the US Army during the Korean War, brother served in the US Navy rescuing downs pilots off the coast of Vietnam, I served in the US Navy. There were others that don't come to mind.

It is AMERICAN to serve one's country if necessary. I guess Romney's are not Americans!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:37 PM

48. Explains a generation or adds a country they refused to stand with? They exited Mexico

 

when the Revolution came, they were 'revolutionary refugees' and as such supported by the United States Government with public funds upon their arrival in the United States.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:55 PM

86. Mitt Romney is an Anchor Baby (child of illegal immigrant to keep parents legal in USA). nt

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:44 PM

2. Actually, the explanation is pretty simple so far as Romney's dad is concerned....

He was born in 1907. That means he was too young for WWI and too old for WWII. Prior to that, his family was in Mexico (don't know for how long), but that might account for any other wars. They came back to the U.S. when George was a child.

What explains the lack of any other family members serving I don't know. How many Romney men were there and what were their ages?

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:16 PM

15. Hey my dad was born in 1900 and signed up on Dec 8, 1941.

George should have too.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:21 PM

19. My grandfather was born in 1905 and was called to service in WWII.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:30 PM

26. That explains nothing...

In WWII, the draft went all the way up to age 45.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:32 PM

27. My father was three years younger than George Romney...

and served in World War II.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:04 PM

56. I would guess that the auto industry qualified as crucial war work

I can't find anything specific about why George Romney didn't fight in World War II, but Wikipedia says that "in 1939 he moved to Detroit and joined the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, where he served as the chief spokesman for the automobile industry during World War II and headed a cooperative arrangement in which companies could share production improvements."

There were effectively no new cars manufactured in the US from early 1942 through the end of 1944, except for government and military use, and the auto factories were retooled for defense production. So it sounds like Romney was basically coordinating the automotive side of the defense industry. That would have made him eligible for a draft exemption under category II-B, "necessary to national defense."

So no discredit to him -- but it forms part of that bubble within which Mitt was raised.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:10 PM

61. My mom was born in 1912 and joined the Women Marines in 1942

My dad was born in 1917 and served in WWII and Korea, a career marine! There are few 2nd and 3rd generation Americans who had not a single family member serve. The Rmoneys are some of them.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:45 AM

99. My two uncles: once born in 1910 and the other in 1907 both served in WWII.

My Aunt Dot was an Army nurse in WWII. She was born in 1904

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:34 PM

111. That doesn't mean you can't serve in some way

My father was too old for Korea but too young for Vietnam. He still served in the Navy.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:44 PM

3. They consider their missionary work for

the LDS Church a higher calling.

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Response to GentryDixon (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:57 AM

90. So they're loyal to their church, but not their country?

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #90)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:23 AM

98. Guess so...

...they ignored Civil Rights laws for 14 years, barring the few completely confused Black students who wanted to go to BYU...until their prophet had a "revelation" that God had changed his mind about Black people being cursed as descendants of Cain...in 1978.

Utterly repulsive religion.

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Response to GentryDixon (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:17 AM

96. Because trying to convert French people to Mormonism is important !!

I do wonder how many people he converted over there. I have a feeling he was much more interested in just hanging out, having a good time and avoiding any risk to himself.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:45 PM

5. If true that would be really something!...

I can't imagine that would be the case for many US families.

If true, I'd like to see him try to explain it.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:47 PM

6. Unbelievable! We had WWI,WWII,Korea,and peacetime service in my family.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:05 PM

59. i have family who served in every war

back to the civil war that i know of for sure. my son was in the navy, but that was not my decision. i don't want any members of my family going into the military until and unless the US stops throwing unnecessary wars.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:41 PM

115. And yet, John Kerry was "swiftboated" for his service in Vietnam

Where was Mittens?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:49 PM

8. Not even WW2???

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 04:52 PM

9. My paternal great-grandfather fought in the Union army.

 

I had an uncle and a "step-uncle" who served in the Pacific with the Marines in WW 2 and my dad worked as a civilian mechanic on the big arctic construction projects after the Army told him he was more valuable in that capacity than in uniform when he tried to enlist during WW 2.

I suspect many if not most families have far more veterans in the family tree than mine and even I have a few.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:05 PM

10. Mitt's great-great-grandfather was a US army deserter

I'm not sure, but I count five generations. The question: He served, but is a deserter a veteran?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Park_Romney

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)


Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:07 PM

12. I don't know of ONE mormon that has joined the military, of all the ones I've known.

Thinking about all the guys my daughters went to school with, people I went to school with, etc. In my own family: Dad was Army, as were my uncles. Grandfathers, etc., were Army. Brother was Navy, son in law, Navy, other SIL, Army Reserve.

I'm not sure if the LDS thinks that "serving" the church, by riding bikes and recruiting people, is more important.. but I can't think of any peer or daughter's peers who were in the military.

Is that a 'thing' with them?

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:38 PM

49. I did, fellow Viet Nam era veteren by now.

My roommate back in 1974 as a matter of fact. He was very much a Morman and like most Mormans I have known, one hell of a hard worker! His name is lost to time for me, but I think he may have been a BYU athlete before joining up too.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:22 PM

62. I grew upon the church

I know a lot that survey in the military. The church sees it an honorable thing to do and encourages either a mission or serving in the military.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:51 PM

71. when I was young

the local Mormon churches kept a wall with the pictures of the missionaries and those serving in the military. This was during the Vietnam era. There were 20 missionaries for every one military member. I was run out of the military for being from Utah, but not being Mormon enough. They are there in the military, they seem to be their own little clique. Don't cross them or you are gone.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:49 PM

79. i served in Afghanistan with a mormon

he was from Hawaii. Nicest guy you'd ever meet.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:09 PM

13. My relatives were lucky in their ages

Too young for the last war and too old for the next. But several of them were in the military during peacetime. Odd none of the patriotic Rmoneys saw fit to serve at any time.

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:15 PM

72. Precisely.

I was beginning to think that my family was the only one besides the Romneys that had no one in the military. The last couple of generations in my family have had many more daughters than sons, but the males were born in just the right years to be too old or too young for a war. My husband is the only one who's the right age, but his Vietnam draft number was way too high and then the war ended so he was spared. Not too many of his friends were that lucky.

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Response to Ednahilda (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:52 PM

80. It can happen

Welcome to DU

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:11 PM

14. That is so weird..

My brother was in Viet Nam, Dad in WW2, my grand dad was in WW1
I have them in the Spanish American War,
the civil war (both sides), the war of 1812, and the big one in 1776... But again both sides. Sorry about that.

And the Romney tree can't account for any?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:19 PM

16. My dad was career USAF, and 3 of his 5 brothers served in the Navy in WWII.

 

My maternal grandfather was drafted into the Army in WWII at age 34.

We don't have any WWI or even Civil War vets in my direct line that I have found, though various brothers of my ancestors may have served. I have more ancestors who fought in the Revolution than I can count, though, including one Continental Army officer who died at the Battle of Oriskany.

Mitt's ancestors came to the US very recently and so haven't had much opportunity to serve. They no sooner got to Utah with the Mormons than they ran off to Mexico because Utah was no longer fanatical enough for their militant polygamist branch.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:34 PM

28. Similar to my family...

Dad served in WWII in the Navy, and his two brothers in the Army in Europe during the same war. My brother and I were both too young to have served in Vietnam. My grandfather wanted to serve in WWI, but was wheelchair-bound with a severely broken leg at the time. I have several Civil War veterans on my mother's die, and Revolutionary War veterans on both sides.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:20 PM

17. The Quaker line in my mother's line didn't serve

So I think there are families out here who can also say that. BTW my mom's family were here in the1600s.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:23 PM

22. not in the revolution either?

or against slavery?

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:59 PM

38. many were underground railroad

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:29 PM

25. I only have to go back one generation in my Quaker line to find one who served.

My Dad (and his brother), in WWII.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:20 PM

18. take a look

find a veteran and win a prize!

Mittens Tree:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=dowfam3&id=I327020

Miles Park (Mitt's gr-gr granpa was of age to fight in the Civil War but ran off to Mexico with his 5 wives)

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:21 PM

20. Every generation of my family has had a least one male member in the armed forces since the Civil Wa

My brother served, I did not.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:22 PM

21. Where's the documentation?

Searching Google, I found this page from DU, but it cited a story that didn't back up the claim. Five sons does not equal five generations.

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Response to Courtesy Flush (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:41 PM

33. his ancestry is on the web

Five Generations:


Miles Park Romney
Gaskell Romney
George W. Romney
Mitt Romney
5 sons Biff, Boff, Tagg, Chickenhawk, and Turd

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:19 PM

43. "5 sons Biff, Boff, Tagg, Chickenhawk, and Turd"

...not to be confused with,

Slurry, Spliff, Q*bert, the Batman symbol, and Qzpxl.

The Sons of Cowardice.

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Response to Aviation Pro (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:56 PM

54. ROFL!!!

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:05 PM

57. DUzy!!! nt

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:46 PM

70. +1 LOL! n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:25 PM

23. Considering that George escaped to Mexico to avoid polygamy charges...

I'm guessing that fulfilling his civic duty isn't one of them.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:27 PM

24. He's no Lieutenant Dan

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:36 PM

29. I may be in the minority, but I don't care

 

First off, you can't blame Romney for what other people in his family did. If you want to criticize Romney for not serving in the military, that is fine, but Obama never served in the military either.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:44 PM

34. but Obama had a grandfather and uncles who did. n/t

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:45 PM

35. Ohh Goodie An Apologist

 

And a little dig at Obama too how cute.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:47 PM

51. The difference is that Obama wuill not start a war and draft my children,

but I think Romney would!

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:40 PM

65. Here's why it matters:

The man (Rmoney) talks war.. listen to him. It's astounding the neocons who talk war and start wars who haven't served or had a family member in harm's way. They have no fear of war.. they profit from war!! War is good for business. Their patriotism is greed.
No, Obama didn't serve but he was raised by a grandfather who did and when he graduated from Harvard Law with the world at his feet, he went to work for the people. Both my parents were Marines in WWII, my husband is a Vietnam vet, my son a vet of the first Iraq war. I never served but have a healthy respect for war because members of my family have taught me that.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 09:03 AM

91. +1!

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:15 AM

94. How many pro-war rallies did Obama participate in?

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:16 PM

118. that you are

 

stay there

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:36 PM

30. Mormons have a "higher" calling...

Mormon men are called on a church mission about the same time most adult males consider military service. During the draft years, Mormons were exempt from call-up if they chose an LDS mission calling. Mormons have always seen their duty to church has a higher calling than duty to country.

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Response to Blue Idaho (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:02 PM

41. Then he has no business serving as our countries president.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)


Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:39 PM

32. In four generations, only one male member of my family volunteered for military service

Yet every one of us served.

The one exception was my dad who volunteered twice. He served in the Navy in the mid 30's and re-enlisted after Pearl Harbor.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:49 PM

36. I'm not a Mormon but in looking at their "book" it would seem that Mr. Mitt would have a real

conflict in supporting war, or say starting one, or railing on about needing bigger defense budgets and the most powerful military in the world.

“The church is and must be against war, for war is of Satan and this church is the church of Christ...” (Messages of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Vol 6, pg 170.)

“God will hold subject to the eternal punishments of His will those who wage [war] unrighteously.” (Ibid, pg 481.)


Perhaps the erroneous belief that individuals are not accountable for the murders they commit in battle stems from a misreading of a statement the First Presidency endorsed in 1976:

“Wars should be avoided whenever possible; however, men have the right to protect themselves from those who unjustly try to take away their freedom and property. (Principles of the Gospel, 1976.)


“Since those who battle for a righteous cause will not be held responsible for bloodshed, the responsibility rests upon those leaders who create contention and cause wars.” (Statements of the LDS First Presidency, pg 480.)

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:56 PM

37. I have to go back to the Civil War and my 2nd Great Grandfather to find...

...an ancestor with military service.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:59 PM

39. We trace our family military history back to the Revolutionary War

More recent, my great uncle fought in WWI (Army), several uncles in WWII (Army, Army Air Corps, Navy), all in combat. An uncle during Korea and cousin during Viet Nam (Army - neither in combat), my Dad (a Marine who served in President Truman's Honor Guard) Me (Navy) and now my nephew (Air Force).

In fact, I know very few families who don't have at least ONE veteran in their family tree.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:02 PM

40. Romney has one ancestor in five generations including himself who served in the US Army

Karl Heinrich Wilcken, born in Germany, emigrated to the US, enlisted in the US Army, and deserted. This is Romney's great-great-grandfather (5 generations counting Romney himself as one and going back).

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:16 PM

42. hmmm

we may have a winner...but is a deserter a veteran? I should have specified Honorably Discharged Veteran.
I don't really have a prize, didn't expect a winner

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:23 PM

45. He also served in the Prussian (I think) military

although it may have been the army of the Duchy of Holstein (if it had one) in the First Schleswig War with Denmark and won the Iron Cross. (Which probably counts as "honourable discharge", just not from the US Army.)

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:04 PM

55. retroactive rule change

Honorably Discharged Veteran of any branch of The United States Armed Forces.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:22 PM

73. I would count that as a sixth generation . . .

. . . since all of Mitt's sons are old enough to have served.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #73)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:01 PM

81. And so?

It's not that strange, honestly, for someone of Romney's sons' generation to have not served in the US military. They would have come of age after the end of the draft and in the twilight years of the Cold War if not past its end. Romney on the other hand was old enough to've gone to Vietnam. His father, old enough to've been in WWII. His grandfather, old enough to've served in WWI. And so on.

In my own case, I didn't serve in the military. My father did; he joined the Navy in 1973 (before the end of the draft). Both of my grandfathers were in the US Army, one was stateside and one saw combat in Europe. One of my great-grandfathers was with the AEF in France. I have ancestors who were on both sides in the Civil War. Who fought in the War of 1812. And the Revolution. And the French and Indian War, for that matter. What's highly unusual about Romney's family background is that it's extremely uncommon for someone whose ancestry goes back to the colonial era to have almost no ancestors who were in the US military or colonial militia in any of the various wars and conflicts that the US and its predecessor colonies were in, and especially to have no ancestors who served in either WWII or the Civil War.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:23 PM

44. The do not serve. Ever. And his Grandpa abandoned the US in favor of Mexico and they would

 

have stayed if the Mexican Revolutionaries had not sent them packing. The Romney family is only American because of Pancho Villa.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:27 PM

46. Both sides of my family (my wifes parents and mine) were WWII vets.

 

How the heck did rMoney's family get out of WWII? Nobody served? That is astounding.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:32 PM

47. I can only go back as far as my grandfather.

He was working at a defense plant. My great and great-great grandparents, I don't know.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:43 PM

50. The whole clan has flat feet and knocked knees.

 

Both conditions exclude them from being able to serve....oh and it's a hereditary problem, so that explains the multi generational military exclusions.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:47 PM

52. Even among my very Quaker ancestors,

there were many who served -- WWII, Korea, Viet Nam.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:52 PM

53. Wow that is pretty remarkable


In my family,

Motherside Uncle, Grandfather, and great grandfather served

father side, My dad, grandfather and all of his brothers and all of my male cousins have served.

I can't even not having any male members of the family that have not served.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:05 PM

58. 4 ancestors in the Revolutionary War; 1 in hte Spanish-American War; 6 in WW1; more than that

 

in WW2; 3 in the Korean conflict.
Oh yeah - at least 2 for the Union in the Civil War

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:07 PM

60. Well that would explain

his popularity among conservatives. There's nothing they like more than draft-dodgers. Why get killed and maimed when you can get others to do it in your place?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:23 PM

63. Several uncles in WWII...

I am however happy to say that I missed the tragedy of Vietnam.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:36 PM

64. I had an uncle who served in WW II.

He was discharged because of a nervous breakdown. My father was a merchant marine. They are the only ones in my family that I know of that served.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:41 PM

66. Thank You for posting this... I can almost right the script for the next super-pac commercial...

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:43 PM

67. Didn't all men HAVE to serve in the military at one point?

I know my dad did. I thought all men had to serve in the military for a period of time in the 1960s. Am I misunderstanding something?

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Response to LiberalCatholic (Reply #67)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 09:42 PM

78. The draft ran by lottery system...

... A number was assigned to each day of the year. A person's draft number corresponded to their day of birth. whenever more troops were needed, a number was drawn and men holding that number were expected to report to their local draft board and, assuming he wasn't eligible for a deferrment or exemption of some sort, and was found to be physically able, off he went. But no, it was not universal.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:43 PM

68. why it matters

Because Romney didn't mention veterans or the war in his speech because he only "spoke of important things" such as invading Iran. The military, to Romney are like hired help, like the gardener, the chauffeur, the maid, the cook. To Romney, they are paid to do a job, no need to "honor" them with anything more than a paycheck. He doesn't get it. He has never heard the stories, seen the injuries, or the tears in his family. He has never seen the quivering lips of an elderly veteran relative at the first few bars of the national anthem, and known what it is all about.
The rest of America has family typical of mine, and even if you may think you have only a few veterans in your tree, as a amateur genealogist I can say you would be astonished at what you would find.
My family began to immigrate from Norway in 1850. Many joined the 15th Wisconsin of the Union Army, a year after arriving, it was an all Norwegian Regiment. One died in Andersonville. Many were wounded, many died. My Dad's uncle arrived in the US from Norway right before WW1, he enrolled in college, had big dreams. He went to fight in WW1, and returned horribly wounded, his dreams dashed forever. Purple Heart. My Dad was born to Norwegian immigrants, landed on the beaches of Normandy, was captured a few months later, a P.O.W. for the duration of the war. A cousin served in Vietnam, returned addicted to heroin, and died young with the monkey on his back. A brother served in desert Storm, spent months breathing the burning oilfields of Kuwait, his life is totally destroyed from Gulf War Syndrome. My ex's uncle was a shell shocked tail gunner in WW2, lost his mind and hung himself one night. I've done the family trees of my two daughters-in-law. Their families go back to before the revolution. Full of veterans, revolutionary war, spanish american, Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam.
We all have these stories in our families, it is part of who we are and how we form opinions of war and the men who fight them. All except Romney. He has no stories. To him, a soldier is like the guy who cleans his pool. Just not that "important".

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:24 PM

75. Very impressive family history.

I think every male in my family has served except for my uncle. I am inspired by your post and will research it. I know much of my family (the one's who are not American Indian) has been here since the 1700's. It is frankly creepy that Romney's family has never served, that's just despicable. Perhaps the Romney's have always felt that they were better than everybody else.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:45 PM

69. 5 boys in my dad's family

one was too young but there were the 4 brothers pictures on the wall. I loved to look at them when I was a kid.

One in the Army, one in the Navy, one a Paratrooper and my Dad a B17 tail gunner

My uncle who was the paratrooper parachuted on D Day....He brought back a crystal set of liquor glasses for my mom


On my mom's side they were all over navy, army, air force.

There should be more said of this...Romney is not an American patriot...how could he be? He won' t put his money in America.

My dad and mom's parents came from Poland in the 20s...and I don't know the genealogy of where everyone else is.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:23 PM

74. Just thought of a great tagline for an ad about this ...

"The Romneys: reaping the rewards while others bear the burdens."

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:45 PM

76. Mittens could serve retroactively, perhaps in the Utah National Guard. nt

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Response to SDjack (Reply #76)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 09:09 AM

92. Mitt would retroactively shoot himself in the foot to get out of it

Besides, he'd like the sound of a "million dollar wound." It's right up his alley.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 08:52 PM

77. RMoney said his 5 sons "served" by working on his campaign for President

Yeah, right.
My father, Navy WWII, older brother Navy, younger brother Army, my ex, Air Force.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:04 PM

82. My Dad born 1911 volunteered as a Military Chaplain

with my mom and my two older sisters and started a Christian Church for the soldiers and the locals in Kyushu, Japan. I think three of my maternal uncles served. I often heard how my grandmother in Omaha had one flag in the window for each of her boys overseas. I came along right after ... a Boomer.

We don't choose when we are born, but we choose who we respect and how we live.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 10:34 PM

83. What's to explain? They had enough pull to stay out of the military and stay alive. Natch.

I'll bet if you were a member of the Romney family you wouldn't have joined the military either so don't complain.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:08 PM

84. please

Mitt took his family to see Saving Private Ryan and bought the disk set of that nice HBO series about WWII.

Each family serves in its own way.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #84)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:55 PM

87. LOL! n/r

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 11:11 PM

85. Weren't his ancestors present at the Battle (sic) of Meadow Mtns?

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Response to grantcart (Reply #85)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 09:51 AM

93. The massacre of Meadow Mountains....

Yeah they prob "served" in that one...

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Response to K8-EEE (Reply #93)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:02 PM

101. Actually one of the theories on why it turned bloody is that the wagon train was from Arkansas.


Romney's great great whatever was from Arkansas and had taken the wife of a local (alleged wife beater) as one of his multiple wives and the guy tried to kill Romney.

Romney goes to Utah and is in the group that is dressed as Indians but one of the Arkansans recognize Romney from the earlier dustup and their cover is blown.

Waiting for instructions from SLC the group concludes that they cannot let the wagon train go because they recognize Romney and proceed with the massacre.

Don't know its validity but it is one of the long rumored (before the Presidential race) explanations why a bunch of Mormons turned into murderers of women and children.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:37 AM

88. That's just for,

As Ann Romney once said " you people".

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:51 AM

89. Mexican nationals can not join the US military -- Mitt is the first US born Romney

in his line.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:16 AM

95. Romney would be thrilled to send my son to war

But not his own sons. His sons are doing important things like keeping small hospices out of their neighborhoods.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:18 AM

97. My husband's family has had someone serve...

in nearly every generation going back to the Revolutionary War.
My family is a bunch of immigrants in the 20th century. The only one who served was my grandpa. Everyone else was either too young, or not here when things got belligerent.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:55 AM

100. Hell even Quakers and Mennonites served...

Many served as Medics and they were volunteers in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment#Participant_volunteers

While they are pacifists, they also understood the importance of helping the nation.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:11 PM

102. service to one's country

 

Hey, lighten up. Mitt spent several years in Paris baptizing dead Jews. If that is not serving your country, just what ............. oh, wait, I know. It has long been known one has a better chance of getting rich at home (or in the Caymans or Bermuda) while someone else sacrifices their life to preserve our freedom.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:11 PM

103. My Grandfather on my Mothers side served in WWI

My Dad and his 4 brothers served in WWII
My brother and I both volunteered and served during the Vietnam era on Submarines.
My 3 other brothers did not serve.
I don't know of any of my nieces or nephews that have served.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 PM

104. Maybe the Amish can lay claim to this?

Amish use the term "non-resistance" when it comes to force - be it in the military, law enforcement and even politics. Those who served in the military were forced to do so. Until Vietnam, Amish in Alternative Service were in a non-Amish environment and this caused issues. Come Vietnam, working on an Amish farm fulfilled that Alternative Service requirement.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 PM

105. I think that Mittens problems with military service are somewhat a um uh ...


Religious issue. I have had several family members in my life that belonged to LDS. I can only think of one third cousin who a couple of years ago went into the army. It was a finance decision and after he got done with his missionary job he enlisted in the army. Other wise most of my cousins converted to LDS after their military service.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:31 PM

106. Oh Good grief!

I can't hold Mittwitt responsible for what his forefathers did, but there is more than enough to him to answer to just on his own gaffes. It is hard to respect a man who wants to send our youth to war, when he himself did not bother...

However to answer the question; it would be faster and easier to count the family members that did NOT serve. Starting with me, I'm both female and 4-F, my sister (she never tried to enlist), I have an Uncle who is a chickenhawk.

My ex-husband who served in George's (the 41st Prez) war, my brother, my father, both grandfather, all all 4 great grandfathers, 7 ggreatgrandfathers (well 8 if you count military service in the military of home country). They all served.

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Response to chloes1 (Reply #106)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:01 PM

107. The most despicable thing about Romney's draft dodging was his overt support FOR the war

I remember seeing a picture of him at Stanford holding a pro-war sign and sporting, if I recall correctly, a smirk uncannily like the one in that infamous tweet. Not only is he a coward, but a coward who supported seeing less entitled yet better men than him march off to fight and die in rice paddies while he bicycled through France and lived in a mansion.

This man isn't just amoral, he sucks the life out of everything he touches. He's a vampire but not a sexy one like Eric. More like Randall. (Apologies to folks who don't watch "True Blood"

Diane
Anishinaabe in MI & mom to Taz, Nigel, and baby brother Sammy, members of Dogs Against Romney, Cat Division
"Dogs Aren’t Luggage--HISS!”

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:02 PM

108. Maybe they all had flat feet.

Mitt is tone deaf?



(hope I don't really need to say sarcasm)

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:17 PM

109. yep

 

Last edited Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:38 AM - Edit history (2)

wouldn't surprise me at all.

Lore in our family has it that a relative was with Crispus Attucks during Boston Massacre. He was there during Revolutionary War. Relative in the 10th Calvary, Buffalo soldier. Relative in Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders, Kettle Hill, Spanish-American War. Relative in Rainbow Division, 24th Infantry, France WWI. Relative, Officer WWII, landed on beach, Normandy landings and part of Red Ball Express. Relative at Chosin Reservoir, Korean War, and the last, me, Vietnam 68-69. Mitt_twit is a cowardly piece of sh... I will never respect third base twit
I better specify, they were all immediate family members, one generation following the prior in service to our country and the like. Also my father and I were in Vietnam together.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:20 PM

110. Well no wonder he didn't mention our troops or the military during his RNC speech!

 

GO FIGURE

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 02:38 PM

112. It's not easy

to not have anyone in a family serve. I have traced ancestors back to the Revolution, 1812, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean, and Vietnam.

My dad served in WWII and at the age of 58 had to sign up for the draft for WWII.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:35 PM

113. Wasn't it Romney who said that his sons....

....were serving America more by working to get him elected? I think that was early in the primaries or maybe even last year. Not sure, will research it.

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Response to George II (Reply #113)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:39 PM

114. Here are his comments - they were in 2007:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/questions-about-romneys-sons-and-military-service/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 8, 2007, 7:56 pm
Questions About Romney’s Sons and Military Service
By MICHAEL LUO
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa — It is a question that Mitt Romney has gotten before on the campaign trail. Sometimes it is asked innocently; sometimes with a clear edge.

A woman at an Ask Mitt Anything forum earlier today in Iowa raised the question again, asking whether any of Mr. Romney’s five sons are serving in the military, adding pointedly, “If none of them are, how do they plan to support this war on terrorism by enlisting in our U.S. military?”

Although his campaign said his remarks were taken out of context, Mr. Romney’s response is drawing criticism, because he said, in part, “one of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping to get me elected.”


Mr. Romney expressed appreciation for the country’s “volunteer army” and said “that’s the way we’re going to keep it. He explained his sons had made different career choices in life and had not chosen to serve in the military but he mentioned a niece whose husband he said had just been called up by the National Guard.

He added that he respects and values “very highly those who make a decision to serve in the military” and referenced the “surge of support” for members of the Armed Services he recently called for on the campaign trail. As part of that call, he personally donated $25,000 to various organizations that support military personnel. But he wound up his response with this: “It’s remarkable how we can show our support for our nation, and one of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping to get me elected, because they think I’d be a great president. My son, Josh, bought the family Winnebago and has visited 99 counties, most of them with his three kids and his wife. And I respect that and respect all of those in the way they serve this great country.”


What freaking useless turds he and his family are!!!

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:00 PM

117. Are you a veteran? Do you support a draft?

If not, I don't understand your gripe.

My father was in the army, but he made sure that I knew early on that he didn't want me to be in the military. If I have kids, I'll do the same. If there was a draft, I'd be a draft dodger.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #117)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:26 PM

119. I don't believe that is the point.

When someone who is running for Commander-in-Chief professes himself to be a hawk who will willingly risk the lives of our young men and women in senseless wars because he is tone-deaf to diplomacy or is so convinced of US righteousness and exceptionalism without even learning the facts of a given situation before making an ass of himself, one certainly can wonder why that person - or no one in his immediate family - has never seen firsthand by serving in the military what a destructive force war truly is.

Like so many here, every generation of my family from my grandfather on down (and I'm 68) has served in the military - WWI (my grandfather), WWII (my father) and Vietnam (my brother). My sons, fortunately, had the option not to enlist and chose to exercise it. But they are also good Democrats, i.e., they do not now and never have supported warmongering.

Those who served all firmly abhorred war - not the military per se - but war itself.

I am one who believes that ALL of us SHOULD serve our country. But I do not believe that the military is the only way to serve.

For instance, I am a Returned Peace Corps Volunteer.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #117)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:08 PM

122. I'm not a veteran, but as for a draft . . .

. . . I have long said I would be in favor of a Constitutional amendment that would forbid the country from going to war without a draft -- a draft with no exemptions or deferrments -- so that the burden would be more fairly borne across society. If such a requirement had been in place prior to Iraq, this country would have had a very different conversation prior to deciding to invade that country.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:29 PM

120. Interesting. (nt)

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:35 PM

121. My dad and all my uncles served in the Armed Forces...

I have a cousin who was a jet fighter in Korea and several cousins who fought in Vietnam.

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