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Fri Mar 27, 2020, 07:53 AM

 

French Chloroquine Researcher Manipulated Data


This article is rather extensive. It turns out, the French researcher whose work is most cited in support of chloroquine appears to have a long history of dodgy data....

https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/



The study was not randomised, ethically approved only after it already began, and it was not really controlled: the 16 control patients were treated in different clinics.

After some adjustments (patients removed, data points guessed), a preprint was published simultaneously with a paper in a peer reviewed journal Raoult basically controls. Next, a lawyer with whom Rault partnered with pitched the miracle cure to Fox News, which is the TV channel US president Donald Trump watches all day to get all his information.


...

In fact, the authors never showed the results of day 14 either. They also refused to share their secondary endpoint data, namely “the clinical effectiveness of treatment on time to apyrexia, normalization of respiratory rate, and average length of hospital stay and mortality”. Basically, it is none of anyone’s business to know if the therapy had any clinical benefit for the patients.

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Reply French Chloroquine Researcher Manipulated Data (Original post)
jberryhill Mar 27 OP
NRaleighLiberal Mar 27 #1
BumRushDaShow Mar 27 #2
Sunriser13 Mar 27 #5
BumRushDaShow Mar 27 #6
Sunriser13 Mar 27 #8
BumRushDaShow Mar 27 #20
LisaL Mar 27 #12
sop Mar 27 #29
superpatriotman Mar 27 #10
octoberlib Mar 27 #21
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 27 #22
NurseJackie Mar 27 #31
CottonBear Mar 27 #32
MontanaMama Mar 27 #44
csziggy Mar 27 #48
pazzyanne Mar 27 #54
MerryBlooms Mar 27 #56
ZZenith Mar 28 #58
BumRushDaShow Mar 28 #59
ZZenith Mar 28 #60
SheltieLover Mar 27 #3
rampartc Mar 27 #4
Mike 03 Mar 27 #7
pazzyanne Mar 27 #55
lamp_shade Mar 27 #9
magicarpet Mar 27 #11
hlthe2b Mar 27 #13
moonscape Mar 27 #51
Drahthaardogs Mar 27 #14
jberryhill Mar 27 #17
Raster Mar 27 #28
Drahthaardogs Mar 27 #30
jberryhill Mar 27 #33
muriel_volestrangler Mar 27 #15
gab13by13 Mar 27 #18
Raster Mar 27 #27
muriel_volestrangler Mar 27 #41
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 27 #36
C_U_L8R Mar 27 #52
Docreed2003 Mar 27 #16
dalton99a Mar 27 #39
bucolic_frolic Mar 27 #19
Aquaria Mar 27 #23
malaise Mar 27 #24
Drahthaardogs Mar 27 #34
malaise Mar 27 #35
NightWatcher Mar 27 #25
Raster Mar 27 #26
Phoenix61 Mar 27 #37
duforsure Mar 27 #38
dalton99a Mar 27 #40
Crowman2009 Mar 27 #45
Recursion Mar 27 #42
jberryhill Mar 27 #43
MyNameGoesHere Mar 27 #46
ET Awful Mar 27 #47
not_the_one Mar 27 #49
RobinA Mar 27 #57
paleotn Mar 27 #50
pazzyanne Mar 27 #53

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 07:55 AM

1. sounds like the way trump would do it. perfect fit.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 07:55 AM

2. Seems to be a theme going on



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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:00 AM

5. Damn, they could be brothers!

But to the topic, hopefully more ethical researchers will make the progress we need. I've been seeing some good info on isolating human antibodies that really shows hope.

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Response to Sunriser13 (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:01 AM

6. The antibody isolation is how they eventually develop vaccines

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:04 AM

8. Exactly!

That's why I was so excited to read it!



Edited to add:

Good news on the 206 antibodies scientists isolated from 8 COVID patients

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Response to Sunriser13 (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:23 AM

20. Cool!

Thanks for that OP link. Had heard there was work going on with that but hadn't had chance to see where they were with it.

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Response to Sunriser13 (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:08 AM

12. They could be twins.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:40 AM

29. Evil twins...

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:07 AM

10. +1

Doppelgängers

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:24 AM

21. I was gonna post the same thing!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:27 AM

22. I thought he looked like Trump's stoner doctor

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:46 AM

31. My first thought as well.

Ugh.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:49 AM

32. That was my first thought.

Great minds think alike! 😉

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:03 AM

44. You beat to it!

I thought for sure it was the same quack that wrote the MF’s good health letter.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:21 AM

48. My first thought was that he got new glasses

Plus he'd be a few years older.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:46 AM

54. Yep!

I made a connection but couldn't find the picture. Thanks for posting.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:52 AM

56. I just did that same search! Creepy evil twins.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 06:09 AM

58. He's the one they call Dr. Feelgood

He's the one that makes ya feel alright

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Response to ZZenith (Reply #58)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 06:35 AM

59. ...



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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #59)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 06:47 AM

60. Now that's art!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 07:58 AM

3. 😱🤬

It takes a special brand of human garbage to manipulate health data - especially in a pandemic!

Stating the obvious, but no wonder maggot brain jumped on board to push for this "treatment."

BTW, isn't that practicing medicine without a license? Impeachable?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)


Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:02 AM

7. I knew it. Experts said it was a shitty study.

What a wild goose chase and a waste of time, and terrible for the Lupus patients who actually needed that medicine.

From Wednesday:
Malaria Drug Chloroquine No Better Than Regular Coronavirus Care, Study Finds
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:49 AM

55. "Experts said it was a shitty study."

That is exactly why tRump jumped on board. He always manages to go to the stupid side of anything science and experts say. It is his one real talent.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:05 AM

9. I just countered a facebook with this article. Thanks.

My trumper BIL posted the french study that had trump claiming that he had “seen things that are impressive”.
I also countered his post with this FactCheck article:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trump-hypes-potential-covid-19-drugs-but-evidence-so-far-is-slim/?fbclid=IwAR1JgYn3Hp_ulEWQHPz0aOR5AdIFfXRrNd_zb7klHSdBonoqNUBqxNauvYk

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:08 AM

11. This guy should be removed from ever working in a biolab.

Maybe have him clean toilets at the male freshman college dorms of the local university. Where the students drink and get drunk every night then throw up every morning.

Make those bathroom twinkle. That is the closest he should be to a biology lab.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:09 AM

13. I have been excoriated by a couple of people here for pointing out lack of basic scientific method

in the French study. Further, the number of times HCQ and Chloroquine have been touted as a potential magic bullet in numerous emerging viral diseases--always to be discounted dramatically. Not to mention the not-inconsequential toxicity potential and the need for use in the indications where it actually has been proven (Lupus, Malaria and a couple of others). I have no problem with the appropriate study, but the way it is being handled is the worst-case scenario. By the time NY's valid hospital-based studies are completed, no matter the outcome, the drug will have been so misused and hoarded, that even a positive study findings may be for naught.

FOX is a public menace and should be dismantled--along with all the other CT-spreading (mainly RW) media.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:28 AM

51. That letter Kaiser sent to patients, which a lupus user

posted (posted from the media here yesterday), was heartbreaking. They were no longer allowing/filling prescriptions for it for her though she had been on it for years and thanked her for her sacrifice.

Horrific.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:09 AM

14. Yeah, the data is NOT well done

But....

We don't have time to do double blinded studies with multiple endpoints. We are in a crisis, and a drug that has shown in-vitro inhibition, as well as some effectiveness for SARs abd MERs was used. It is a reasonable hunch, and actually might show some benefit in some people. It might also be shit and do nothing. We'll see what comes out of New York.

I work with stats people who will make these criticisms. This is a preliminary study for a drug that has some rationale to believe it might work.

I am against dragging this guys name through the mud. It is nit his fault Trump went Trump on it.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:15 AM

17. Read the article - the guy regularly fabricates data

 


This is not about rushing or not dotting I’s.

This is about photoshopping PCR gels.

This is ACTIVE FRAUD not sloppy work.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:35 AM

28. LOVE the modification to your avatar!

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:42 AM

30. He did NOT photoshop PCR gels in this study

That is not the criticism here. Have you ever done PCR?

Furthermore, if you look at the data from PCR tests, about 40% appear to be false negative.

Everything is rushed and shitty right now. There is reason to believe the drug may have a theraputic effect. It is wirth trying. It WAS used for SARs and appearex to have some benefit

Furthermore, if you look at the anti-virals, their data looks pretty shitty too.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:54 AM

33. Oh, he only fakes data some of the time?

 



He used photoshopped gels and other dodgy data in previous studies, but on alternate Wednesdays he does solid work. Got it.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:10 AM

15. The skull pinky ring is a nice touch (nt)

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:16 AM

18. Skull and Bones?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:34 AM

27. I am not so sure I'd want to take medical advice from a "professional" wearing skull jewelry...

...just sayin'.

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Response to Raster (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:48 AM

41. "Why skulls?"

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:03 AM

36. Noticed that. Not disqualifying, but not a good sign either. Not great bedside manner at least. nt

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:31 AM

52. From Death Metal to Death Panel

Yeah, nice touch there

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:15 AM

16. I wrote about this is another thread this week

If you look at their exclusion data in the study, it's the definition of "cherry picking data". It wasn't controlled, it wasn't randomized, it was a small study cohort, and their exclusion criteria was ridiculous, for example excluding patients who decompensated or died.

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Response to Docreed2003 (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:26 AM

39. +1

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:22 AM

19. Witch Doctor tweaking data for political agenda /nt

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:29 AM

23. This is why you wait for the peer review.

 

Because eventually, the fraudsters always get revealed.

There was already plenty that didn’t add up about the initial report—low sample size, no double-blind testing and panic conditions, for instance.

Now this manipulation of data to fit his premise, rather than following where the science led.

Waiting for the news that he had some kind of scheme brewing with a pharmaceutical company to gouge us all.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:31 AM

24. Academia is full of frauds

and plagiarism experts

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Response to malaise (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:55 AM

34. When I was in grad school, working in the lab

A professor wanted to run an analysis that was WRONG. I pointed it out seversl times, but he would not back down. I ran the tests he ordered. He published the data. I dont think the man was trying to be deceptive, just too stubborn to consider he might be wrong.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:02 AM

35. Stubborn, arrogant or dishonest?

I've seen some unbelievable stuff in my career. We generally show way too much respect for people with titles. Life has taught me that there are charlatans are everywhere. And even distinguished professionals sometimes sell out.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:32 AM

25. Ok, can I get my lupus medicine now?

I was able to secure one refill Monday, but there's none left in stock.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:32 AM

26. Isn't that tRump*s NYC doctor?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:17 AM

37. Reminds me of a Beverly Hillbillies episode.

Granny was doctoring everyone with her homemade tonic because they had all come down with a hellish cold. She had Mr Drysdale convinced her tonic would cure the common cold. He’d set up a meeting with a big time doctor to promote it. Everyone is there and Jeb says, “Yep, Granny’s cure works every time! You start taking it and 7-10 days later you’re cured!”

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:24 AM

38. This should be on every station on the tv's everywhere

Showing how trump promoted something like this without knowing anything else except they. Promoted it on Fox News. It shows how careless trump is. He promotes lies without caring about the consequences, which as long as the Senate is controlled by Moscow Mitch he won't have any. Imagine that, a sitting president promoting lies knowing it could harm Americans.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:28 AM

40. The article should be read in its entirety. The guy is a fucking fraud.


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Response to dalton99a (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:09 AM

45. Just like this fraud who claims to be president.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:54 AM

42. The editor of the journal that published it is a co-author? And his subordinate?

What the actual hell?

Also, he looks like Trump's personal "physician".

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Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 09:57 AM

43. Yup

 

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:13 AM

46. Holy crap is this the French alt to Dr. Orange Anus fake US doctor?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:16 AM

47. He looks a LOT like Trump's personal doctor that dictated the letter about how healthy Trump was

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:22 AM

49. Hey, guys and gals... A lot of us old hippies may look like this.

We aren't all whackadoodles.

They DO, however, make the rest of us look bad (professionally speaking, of course). Physically, some of us can pull it off quite well, thank you. (I'm letting my grey hair grow again, for about the 5th time. It is now half way down my back. At it's longest, AND when I was still a brunette, it was to my waist. I seem to have a lot less of it now, though... )

So let's not paint with that super broad brush, please.

Still, WHAT A COUPLE OF LOSERS!!! But that is what the turd is depending on, that he can get marginal people desperate to still be relevant in some way, to prop up his rightwing fantasies.

But think about it. The turd is not smart enough to come up with this particular drug theory himself. He was fed it. By Miller or Bannon, probably. Too bad he is killing people with it...

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 12:14 PM

57. Yeah, But Are You

doctors? I can appreciate an old hippie for a lot of things, but doctoring is a big part emotional and I want my doctor looking shipshape.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:23 AM

50. Well...so much for promising. That's exactly why we have peer review.

And the focus on reproducible results. It helps highlight the bad actors so they're relegated to the ranks of the cranks.

There's so much dodginess, a cottage industry has developed with the sole purpose of refuting other people's findings.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 10:45 AM

53. Hmmm, he reminds me of someone...

Seems to me, if I remember rightly, he looks an awful lot like tRump's original White House doctor.

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