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Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:06 PM

Tony Fauci and Deborah Birx each have a big decision to make tonight. The real estate developer,

turned reality show star, turned president is now practicing medicine and plugging a drug that can be dangerous if not fatal and which has not been tested for use on Covid-19. Not showing up for press conferences with the Quack-in-Chief is not enough. Face palms are not enough. He and Dr. Birx can roll or bat their eyes all they want but that will not excuse them for standing behind this man and, by doing so, endorsing his insanity. These two people have to examine their consciences and consider the legacies they want to leave. They need to catch the train and leave this macabre circus. They need to do this now because the shit is going to hit the fan very soon and they will do more good on the outside...they will be ruined if they stay where they are.

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Arrow 54 replies Author Time Post
Reply Tony Fauci and Deborah Birx each have a big decision to make tonight. The real estate developer, (Original post)
Raven Mar 2020 OP
PJMcK Mar 2020 #1
NCDem47 Mar 2020 #2
OnDoutside Mar 2020 #30
Crunchy Frog Mar 2020 #3
AnotherMother4Peace Mar 2020 #4
LAS14 Mar 2020 #5
sop Mar 2020 #8
atreides1 Mar 2020 #10
kurtcagle Mar 2020 #28
OnDoutside Mar 2020 #31
UpInArms Mar 2020 #33
LAS14 Mar 2020 #39
sammythecat Mar 2020 #43
Eugene Mar 2020 #32
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #6
burrowowl Mar 2020 #9
Ms. Toad Mar 2020 #11
uppityperson Mar 2020 #7
Enoki33 Mar 2020 #12
Poiuyt Mar 2020 #13
KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #15
LAS14 Mar 2020 #16
applegrove Mar 2020 #14
Haggis for Breakfast Mar 2020 #18
applegrove Mar 2020 #19
Haggis for Breakfast Mar 2020 #20
cwydro Mar 2020 #21
applegrove Mar 2020 #22
nordenbluejay Mar 2020 #54
orleans Mar 2020 #49
emmaverybo Mar 2020 #51
PatrickforO Mar 2020 #17
Raven Mar 2020 #23
PatrickforO Mar 2020 #25
Raven Mar 2020 #29
Blue_true Mar 2020 #24
oldsoftie Mar 2020 #45
drray23 Mar 2020 #46
Blue_true Mar 2020 #47
MoonlitKnight Mar 2020 #26
flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #27
Harker Mar 2020 #35
flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #37
Harker Mar 2020 #38
sop Mar 2020 #34
Nitram Mar 2020 #36
LAS14 Mar 2020 #40
drray23 Mar 2020 #48
Nictuku Mar 2020 #41
Coventina Mar 2020 #42
oldsoftie Mar 2020 #44
kurtcagle Mar 2020 #50
Buckeye_Democrat Mar 2020 #52
empedocles Mar 2020 #53

Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:11 PM

1. Everything Trump touches dies (n/t)

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:12 PM

2. Boy, does THAT have new meaning.

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Response to NCDem47 (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:16 AM

30. Someone put that very slant to Rick during the week.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:15 PM

3. Let real counties do the medical research.

Let the WHO issue the treatment guidelines.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:15 PM

4. People in Tijuana are buying up the malaria drug - Trump is dangerous. nt

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:16 PM

5. We all need the Trump base to accept the advice of Fauci and Birx. It's most easily...

... accomplished if they appear to be part of the administration.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:24 PM

8. I think Fauci and Birx feel the same way, that's probably why they're still doing their jobs.

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Response to sop (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:36 PM

10. They have a term for that

"I was just following orders" or " I could do better working from the inside"!

Their jobs are to prop up Trump, so I agree they are doing their jobs...

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Response to sop (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:18 AM

28. This is what I've come to call the Trump dilemma

People with good intentions get pulled into Trump's orbit, and think that maybe they can control his worst tendencies. Every day, they are pulled further and further into the gray zone, hoping that by being there, by trying to feed him good advice, that he'll actually listen to them and do it. Yet I've come to think that Trump doesn't work that way. He'll listen to people at first, but after a while, he notices that others are treating those people with more respect than they are him. And so he begins to ignore their advice, envious of that respect, and increasingly actively plots against them. He has to prove that he's smarter than they are, and to do that, he has to destroy their credibility, no matter what the consequences are.

At the same time, he works to find their weaknesses - troubles with taxes, a messy divorce, a bad business decision, and he uses that to threaten them from leaving. He wants power over them, wants to prove that he CAN destroy them, even if it ultimately will cause chaos and devastation.

Fauci and Birx are likely going to eventually walk, no matter the cost, because they'll realize that Trump's a lost cause. He wants their validation, not their advice, and when he doesn't get that validation, his response is to go scorched earth. This is what malignant narcissism looks like.

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:17 AM

31. +1000 It's inevitable.

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 08:53 AM

33. Examples:

Tillerson
Mattis
Kelly ...

Not that they were good peeps, but they were destroyed by proximity

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:27 PM

39. I don't think they have the faintest hope of changing Trump. I think what they..

... do hope is that by being on that stage, they have more of a chance of getting the message out to his base. No intelligent person (and I think they're both WAY intelligent) could spend time and effort hoping to change Trump.

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:37 PM

43. Excellent analysis

I can easily imagine him doing everything you said. We are really in a lot of trouble and he has just got to go. The thought of another 4+ years of him is too awful to contemplate.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 05:55 AM

32. I'm afraid too many Trump followers see what they want to see.

I was visiting my Faux Noise-addled brother during yesterday's press conference. While every responsible news outlet concluded that Dump stretched the truth at the very least, my brother insists that Faux showed the health experts backed Dump up about the malaria drug. "CNN lies," he said.

Faux's post-presser coverage was a trip through fantasy land.

He was ranting about how the Dems who run Florida let people party on the beach during the outbreak. I was disappointed, but not completely surprised, to see Trump 2020 bumper stickers in the house.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:20 PM

6. Just an FYI

Side effects:

Side effects from chloroquine phosphate can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
headache
loss of appetite
diarrhea
upset stomach
stomach pain
skin rash or itching
hair loss
mood or mental changes

If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately:
seeing light flashes and streaks
blurred vision
reading or seeing difficulties (words disappear, seeing half an object, misty or foggy vision)
difficulty hearing
ringing in ears
muscle weakness
drowsiness
vomiting
irregular heartbeats
convulsions
difficulty breathing

I took a related drug for restless leg off and on for several years and had to stop due to tinnitus (which is now permanent). I also have hearing loss that contributed to a year long bout of vertigo.

I guess both are better than being dead - but it isn't something you should mess with just because the idiot-in-chief wants to play doctor.

And, yes, Dr. Fauci lending credence to this idiot bothers me tremendously - people have (had) such respect for him that his mere slent presence lends credence to Trump

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:28 PM

9. Some people are allergic to quinine so

If you have a bad reaction stop

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Response to burrowowl (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:43 PM

11. Better yet - don't start,

unless you're part of a trial.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 08:21 PM

7. Gmta, I'm glad to read others are saying this too.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 09:51 PM

12. Just read a post that people in Lagos, Nigeria are being poisoned

by the drug after tRump recommended it.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 09:57 PM

13. I don't believe these doctors are endorsing trump's insanity

They are using the best platform available to educate the public. So far, trump is letting them speak without ridiculing them. At least we have a couple of competent people in the White House.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 10:42 PM

15. Agree. It will be worse if they resign and Trump would then....

appoint the lawn mower boy to be in charge......

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 10:50 PM

16. Totally agree. I find this anger at Fauci really, really depressing. nt

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 10:37 PM

14. Birx seemed to be on Trump's team willingly the day she said the WHO

Last edited Sat Mar 21, 2020, 02:41 AM - Edit history (2)

test was too faulty.

Fauci covered smile with his hand because Trump is so stupid and inappropriate with his politics at this horrific time. People are hurting. Making a 'Deep State Department' jibe is uncalled for but typical of Trump. Fauci caught himself reacting with dark humour the way those in the trenches do.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:37 PM

18. Excuse me,

Tony Fauci WAS NOT SMILING.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:38 PM

19. He was stifleling a laugh.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:40 PM

20. Do you personally know Tony Fauci ?

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Response to applegrove (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:43 PM

21. I don't believe for a second that Fauci finds any of this in the least funny.

Wow.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:46 PM

22. I don't think it was bad... it was dark humour. That happens in the trenches.

Fauci was shocked and laughed at the inappropriateness of Trump. Remember he deals with death his whole life snd BOZZO the clown is whining about the "Deep State Department". The pure shock results in uncomfy release in laughter at how selfish Trump is.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:29 PM

54. nordenbluejay

It is called a psychic laugh-the horror is too much forthe mind to handle

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #18)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 09:33 PM

49. after trump said those magic words: "deep state"

fauci was definitely trying to hid a smile

it was one of those oh my god i can't believe how crazy trump is moments and he had to try and keep a straight face--that's when he looked down and rubbed his forehead

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Response to orleans (Reply #49)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:23 PM

51. Exact description. Saw that moment too. Was the "deep state" comment.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Fri Mar 20, 2020, 11:08 PM

17. This is a hard thing. Ethically each must consider the following:

Would the situation be better or worse for their resignations?

Or, should they stay and try to bring sanity and some truth to the Trump turnip truck?

This would be a truly difficult inner battle, because the ethical good from resigning may well be overshadowed by the negative fallout if they are not there to at least try and keep Trump in check.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:59 AM

23. He is not checkable. Don't we know that by now?

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Response to Raven (Reply #23)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:16 AM

25. But the ethical dilemma I'm talking about is this:

Would more people die or become ill if Fauci and Birx followed their own lights, resigned in protest and left Trump, or if they stayed and tried to do what they could?

I agree with you it is a devil's choice. For sure.

I mean, maybe you're right - if they all left Trump hanging, maybe he'd become increasingly irrelevant until no one really noticed him anymore. And that would be really good at any time.

BUT, the power to mobilize American industry to build ventilators, masks and think ahead to what they'll need in future like inhalers and other medicines, as well as keeping the distribution system up and running in crisis mode lies with the president. And, to our horrible misfortune, that is Trump.

So, if Fauci told Trump to pee up a rope and left him, who would influence Trump to move forward implementing his 'wartime' powers? Would Trump do it by himself? And how many more will die if Fauci does leave him and he does nothing?

As I say, these are very difficult ethical issues - this is not black and white. There are many shades of gray here.

Now, to counter my argument, you might bring up Albert Speer, who tried to smooth out Hitler's insanity in the latter years of the Third Reich, and actually saved Paris by ignoring Hitler's orders to burn it to cinders. Because Hitler did order that, and Speer did ignore him. But Speer was still sentenced to 20 years, which he served in its entirety in Spandau Prison.

I say this because Trump IS a criminal and does need to be removed from office, charged and tried for his crimes against humanity. There's no doubt.

But, again, if Fauci and Birx simply quit, how many more will die than if they did not?

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:43 AM

29. You have it exactly...Albert Speer, the handsome, well respected Natzi who

people looked up to and thought "if he is a close friend of Hitler, Hitler can't be so bad." And Albert Speer really believed that he could be a moderating influence on Hitler. I wonder how Hitler would have fared if Speer had disowned him. Trump knows he has credibility with Fauci at his side. Trump picks people like Fauci for that reason/

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:05 AM

24. Try to stand in their shoes.

If they leave, Trump replaces them with science denying zealots that happen to somehow got MD degrees.

Is that best for the country? I think not. Maybe they hang in, solve the problem and write a book about what it was like to work for a soulless moron.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 02:18 PM

45. Thank you. Facts are what matters right now.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 07:09 PM

46. If trump does not listen to them it makes no diiference.

They are better off resigning and offering their services as consultants to the governors who need it instead of providing Trump with a sense of legitimacy.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 07:12 PM

47. Plus, Trump has that thing that Kushner is leading.

Who do you think that he listens to? He is going with the political lies, outright graft option every time, that is just him.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:23 AM

26. Perhaps they can do more good

Helping governors who are actually taking action.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 01:31 AM

27. Perhaps at tomorrow's press conference, reporters should ask Fauci if he thinks it's dangerous

for the President to be making inaccurate medical pronouncements to the American people.

Follow up question, "What happened to First Do No Harm?"

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:12 AM

35. Doctors take the Hippocratic oath

while Trumpsky seems to have taken a Hypocritical oath.

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Response to Harker (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:29 AM

37. Sounds like a meme that needs to get out there!

(I was going to say "go viral", but I think that term is going to have to be retired for the time being.)

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 11:35 AM

38. I don't know that I've ever

been a meme creator before. A few pithy quips, maybe...

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:03 AM

34. Someone needs to investigate Trump's possible connection to Rising Pharmaceuticals,

the only U.S. manufacturer of the chloroquine phosphate drug. Rising Pharmaceuticals doubled the drug's price on January 23, as interest in the drug erupted, then restored the original price after an outcry, and after German pharmaceutical giant Bayer announced Thursday it was donating 3 million tablets of its chloroquine phosphate drug, Resochin, to the U.S. government for COVID-19 treatment research.


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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 10:41 AM

36. If they resign, they will no longer have a prominent platform from which to communicate to the

nation, nor any opportunity to influence "influencers" in the Trump administration that he still listens to.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #36)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 12:29 PM

40. I totally agree. And it's nuts to think they're there because they can change Trump, himself. nt

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Response to Nitram (Reply #36)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 07:13 PM

48. Not true. They can work with the governors.

If trump does not listen to them they are not helping. Instead they are making it appear that they endorse him.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:16 PM

41. I hope there i some of that drug left for me

I take it for a form of Lupus that I have. I hope I can get it when I need the prescription refilled. I wish he had never mentioned it.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sat Mar 21, 2020, 03:20 PM

42. Fauxi has already sold his soul by giving Trump cover and repeating his lies.

Fuck him.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Sun Mar 22, 2020, 02:17 PM

44. No. We need competent people in place. As long as they dont lie like trump

If everyone good leaves and they're replaced with yes-men sycophants, we get NO truthful news.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:18 PM

50. Fauci and Birx have both disappeared

Not coincidentally the same time that most of Trump's hotels were all closed down by Governors and Trump did an about face, saying he wants to start opening everything up again around Easter and is expecting full churches for Easter service.

Covid-19 is going to go ballistic in the red states.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:23 PM

52. Both of them should reveal "I'm with stupid" shirts...

... while standing on each side of him.

Then walk out.

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Response to Raven (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:27 PM

53. 'Real estate SCAM developer'

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