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Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:16 AM

An encounter with a Trump supporter

Last edited Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Last weekend, I went to a Long Island golf course that I used to belong to. I wanted to donate a set of clubs to their First Tee Program which provides encouragement for underprivileged kids to learn the game. While I was there, I ran into a number of old golfing buddies including a pro with whom I had becomes close friends over the years. He taught my son how to play and he has invited me to play in several Pro-Ams, a couple of which we won.

As we were chatting, he began to make political comments. In itself, this was unusual. There's an unwritten rule of etiquette that the two things you never talk about at the golf course are religion and politics. I chose to say nothing but he went on to praise all of the great accomplishments Trump has brought to the U.S. After a couple of minutes, I asked him where he gets his news information. Unsurprisingly, he said he watches Fox News. His comments illustrated that he was somewhat disconnected from reality. He also went on to praise Trump's golf courses. I played three of his courses before he announced his candidacy: they suck and they're ridiculously expensive.

My response to his comments was three-fold. First, I told him that Fox "News" had admitted in court that they were not a news organization but an entertainment outlet. Second, I told him that he was foolish to vote as if he were in the 1% when he's nowhere near that level of wealth. I reminded him that he could not have afforded his double-knee replacement were he not covered by the ACA, also known as Obamacare, (I wanted to needle him a little). Lastly, I scolded him for violating the unwritten rule of etiquette regarding religion and politics.

He responded by saying he was surprised to learn that I was a liberal! He also apologized for bringing up politics.

I like this man and he's been very generous with his golf talents. But it baffled me to see and hear him spouting such utter bullshit and assume that I would be in complete agreement with him.

It's become increasingly clear to me that there are 40% of Americans who are clueless, stupid and/or evil. As a country, we're in for a rougher ride, I'm afraid.

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Arrow 114 replies Author Time Post
Reply An encounter with a Trump supporter (Original post)
PJMcK Feb 2020 OP
SCantiGOP Feb 2020 #1
PJMcK Feb 2020 #3
Tumbulu Feb 2020 #10
Cosmocat Feb 2020 #15
barbtries Feb 2020 #35
katmondoo Feb 2020 #2
PJMcK Feb 2020 #4
Glaisne Feb 2020 #57
PJMcK Feb 2020 #59
drbtg1 Feb 2020 #45
Captain Zero Feb 2020 #68
Ohiya Feb 2020 #73
smirkymonkey Feb 2020 #5
PJMcK Feb 2020 #55
eyeofnewt Feb 2020 #6
safeinOhio Feb 2020 #28
mahina Feb 2020 #37
Joinfortmill Feb 2020 #44
Maggiemayhem Feb 2020 #7
dchill Feb 2020 #46
PJMcK Feb 2020 #70
maddiemom Feb 2020 #86
Coventina Feb 2020 #8
lagomorph777 Feb 2020 #16
Coventina Feb 2020 #32
lagomorph777 Feb 2020 #40
Cosmocat Feb 2020 #19
ProfessorGAC Feb 2020 #21
Coventina Feb 2020 #31
DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #77
MartyTheGreek Feb 2020 #9
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2020 #14
MartyTheGreek Feb 2020 #22
Stainless Feb 2020 #51
MartyTheGreek Feb 2020 #113
PJMcK Feb 2020 #60
MartyTheGreek Feb 2020 #112
walkingman Feb 2020 #64
MartyTheGreek Feb 2020 #114
lagomorph777 Feb 2020 #17
lunatica Feb 2020 #11
pnwest Feb 2020 #20
maddiemom Feb 2020 #29
PJMcK Feb 2020 #58
MarianJack Feb 2020 #12
Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #13
hamsterjill Feb 2020 #48
Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #87
druidity33 Feb 2020 #99
hamsterjill Feb 2020 #103
PJMcK Feb 2020 #61
jayschool2013 Feb 2020 #18
PJMcK Feb 2020 #63
PatrickforO Feb 2020 #23
redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #24
Submariner Feb 2020 #53
DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #78
Pepsidog Feb 2020 #25
papa3times Feb 2020 #26
JustAnotherGen Feb 2020 #27
c-rational Feb 2020 #30
TommyCelt Feb 2020 #80
Jarqui Feb 2020 #33
PJMcK Feb 2020 #66
Wounded Bear Feb 2020 #34
hamsterjill Feb 2020 #49
42bambi Feb 2020 #36
hay rick Feb 2020 #38
GoneOffShore Feb 2020 #82
90-percent Feb 2020 #39
Joe Nation Feb 2020 #41
gordianot Feb 2020 #42
Joinfortmill Feb 2020 #43
yaesu Feb 2020 #47
capechacon Feb 2020 #50
deurbano Feb 2020 #52
Wellstone ruled Feb 2020 #54
Glaisne Feb 2020 #56
Caliman73 Feb 2020 #62
GoneOffShore Feb 2020 #65
PJMcK Feb 2020 #67
GoneOffShore Feb 2020 #83
The Wielding Truth Feb 2020 #69
3catwoman3 Feb 2020 #71
PJMcK Feb 2020 #72
blakstoneranger Feb 2020 #74
PJMcK Feb 2020 #76
Rural_Progressive Feb 2020 #75
PJMcK Feb 2020 #79
BigDemVoter Feb 2020 #81
doc03 Feb 2020 #84
KY_EnviroGuy Feb 2020 #85
PJMcK Feb 2020 #93
Orrex Feb 2020 #88
BobTheSubgenius Feb 2020 #89
PJMcK Feb 2020 #108
Prue Feb 2020 #90
PJMcK Feb 2020 #95
Prue Feb 2020 #97
Hassler Feb 2020 #91
FakeNoose Feb 2020 #92
PJMcK Feb 2020 #94
Skittles Feb 2020 #96
PJMcK Feb 2020 #106
Skittles Feb 2020 #107
warmfeet Feb 2020 #98
jimlup Feb 2020 #100
dhol82 Feb 2020 #101
PJMcK Feb 2020 #105
stopbush Feb 2020 #102
PJMcK Feb 2020 #104
Soxfan58 Feb 2020 #109
PJMcK Feb 2020 #111
pansypoo53219 Feb 2020 #110

Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:28 AM

1. 40% is the ceiling

I hope the real number will turn out to be closer to 30-35%.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:34 AM

3. Yeah but their influence outweighs their numbers

Trump was acquitted by the Senate because it's dominated by Republicans from red states which have fewer people than blue states. Accordingly, it doesn't represent the majority of Americans and this has given Republicans and Trump an outsized level of power.

Given the divisions within our party, I'm frightened that we may not see a change for the better after November.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:11 AM

10. And the people in the states have been

brainwashed by Rush and hate media to loath liberals. For over 3 decades, it is multigenerational.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:34 AM

15. easily 40%

DECADES of right wing programming came before the idiot in the white house, these people were primed - see the response from his friend about liberal.

Beyond the full on "base" over half this country has allowed themselves to be programmed to have most of their brain shut down over "liberal."

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

35. that's what I'm thinking.

30 to 35% a number that is bound to shrink as people wake up to reality.
i'd hate to think that number could grow. as it is i agree with the OP, we're in for worse times.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:33 AM

2. I lived in Long Island for many years. It had great potential until it became Republican.

I still have relatives there and Fox News is the only news they slavishly watch. They complain about the problems on Long Island but do not see it is their voting Republican that has caused it all.

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Response to katmondoo (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:38 AM

4. There are really only two good things about Long Island

1. Its shoreline is fantastic and beautiful for swimming, fishing, boating and sunbathing.

2. Its public (and private) golf courses are among the best in the world. They're mostly very reasonably priced and excitingly challenging.

Other than those two things, Long Island sucks due to Republicans, high taxes and unbelievable traffic at all hours of the day and night. Property values are ridiculously high and many young people cannot afford to live there.

By the way, the LIRR sucks, too.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:21 PM

57. LI is also blessed with many

excellent public libraries and state and county parks. Despite being very Republican there is a strong liberal streak and a strong concern for the environment including among some Republicans.

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Response to Glaisne (Reply #57)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:27 PM

59. You're correct, of course

For example, Eisenhower Park in Nassau County is a jewel with golf courses, ball fields, a fantastic natatorium and a wonderful theater.

Nassau has had to endure many years of Republican corruption and I think the previous County Executive was convicted of corruption and had to go to jail. The previous Executive, Tom Suozzi, is now a U.S. Congressman for a district on Long Island.

Montauk is one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Still, after living there for over 20 years, I've had enough!

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Response to katmondoo (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:14 AM

45. Sorry to be picky, but many people from the Island don't say they live IN Long Island.

They live ON Long Island (or simply ON the Island, or out ON the Island), but I think, in a certain way, you knew that since you said ON Long Island in the message text, just not in the reply title.

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Response to drbtg1 (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:15 PM

68. o and i are next to each other on the keyboard

probably a tupo.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #68)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:19 PM

73. Tupo! I lpve it!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:40 AM

5. I'm glad you stood up to him.

These people must be challenged and shamed wherever they are found. Because they are wrong. They are lazy. They are stupid and they are hateful.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:16 PM

55. Well, he broke the rules!

We all know that golf rules are severe!

No religion or politics.

I'm disappointed in my friend. There are numerous people that I won't engage with anymore because of Trump.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:00 AM

6. Similar incident

I met a really nice man. Quiet, hard working, kind, devoted to his grown children and mother, generous, lots of good friends...nothing bad to say about him. Then, the SOTU came on. I refused to watch and he lit in to Obama, loves everything trump and is an admitted racist. I could not have been more shocked. Oh, and he threw in that Fox is the only reliable news source and all that he watches. I’m still digesting all of it. Still shocked actually. I’ve talked to him a bit since then about health care, cost and lack of access, but wouldn’t even think of trying to get through on any other subject. Granted he’s in a very red area of a red state but he sure doesn’t fit the profile of the typical trumper we see or hear about-at least he doesn’t on the outside.

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Response to eyeofnewt (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:10 AM

28. I love when someone bashes Obama in front of me.

My response, with a stern, mad face, you don't like him because you are damn racist. You don't like him because he is half Irish, and I'm half Irish too, want to make something of it.

I have never got a response back, just a blank look.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:33 AM

37. Ha! That's great.

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Response to eyeofnewt (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:11 AM

44. Your example is enlightening and

it explains why it's been so difficult to understand what the hell is going on with these folks. But, of course, for this guy it's his racism. It overrides everything else. And is probably one of three or four "classic type" of Trump supporter.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:03 AM

7. I wonder how he feels now the stock market tanked and

Recession fears have kicked in.

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Response to Maggiemayhem (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:15 AM

46. He's blaming do-nothing Democrats, of course.

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Response to Maggiemayhem (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:28 PM

70. I have a feeling he isn't invested in the markets

The golf pro strikes me as a cash-only kind of person, if you know what I mean.

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Response to Maggiemayhem (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 04:34 PM

86. Really like your name!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:05 AM

8. 30% are evil, 30% are stupid, and 30% are clueless.

That leaves us in the 10%.

Yes, I'm being serious.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:35 AM

16. 40% are evil, stupid, and clueless.

That leaves 60% who will have to save the country.

Yes, I'm being serious.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:18 AM

32. You are more of an optimist than I am. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:55 AM

40. I'm just looking at the polls.

They are pretty consistent.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:38 AM

19. I keep trying to tell people something along those lines

I would put our percentage a little higher, at 30% or so.

But, yeah 35% full on brain dead, 35% clueless/dumb as shit, and us wearily trying to push all that mud.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:48 AM

21. Then Why Isn't Approval Rating Near 90%.

Methinks you’ve overestimated

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:17 AM

31. No, because I think some stupid and clueless people don't like Trump.

Just because you are stupid or clueless doesn't always mean evil.

It just means you are more vulnerable to evil.

That's why his approval ratings are above 30%, but not over 50%.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:01 PM

77. Amen to that Coventina!!!!!!!! N/C

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:08 AM

9. Many Cult of Trump folks are in Justification Mode...

I had a convo with a Trump christian recently, he asked me first who I would vote for, I said "Romney and he's the better Christian." He said that but Trump did everything he said he was gonna do especially saving the babies. I'm thinking he and his clan are all single voter issue people.

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Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:33 AM

14. Saving whose babies? Not the ones he's separated from their parents, locked

in cages in concentration camps along the border. Not those babies. And Romney?

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:49 AM

22. I'm a first term Reagan Dem...

That was a few decades ago and what Romney did was what all the other Fake Christians could not do! Is that ok around here?

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Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:46 AM

51. "Reagan Dem" is a pejorative IMHO........

I despised Reagan before he was POTUS. Reagan Democrats made me never want to call myself a Democrat even though I've never voted for a Republican for National Office.

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Response to Stainless (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 10:46 PM

113. I had heavy military influence when I joined...

to vote republican. When I was on the assembly line in Pgh., PA, it was all about Unions and Democrats. Depends, on your environment, your age, and influences. For some, .like me, they change over time. That's why I said first term Reagan voter and I just turned twenty at the time. Looking back, I didn't see the bigger picture.

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Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:31 PM

60. That's curious

The only time in my life that I voted for a Republican presidential nominee was Reagan's re-election. I was married to my first wife who was a Wall Street bond trader. Our lives improved dramatically during his first term and one of his campaign slogans was, "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" In my naive youth of my early-to-mid twenties, I bought into that false narrative. Our financial successes of that time had nothing to do with the horrible policies of that jackass president.

I learned my lesson.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 10:38 PM

112. I can appreciate that...

First term for me until after Central America bullshit lies and cover ups. My dad, a lifelong Dem said, watch him... He's an actor! He was so right! Now Trump copies some of his stage antics. I'm the kind of voter, where I could have voted for McCain but when RNC made Palin the VP to offset Obama, I said no way!

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Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:51 PM

64. I retired from ATT. We had many heated arguments at work during the Carter/Reagan campaign.

Little did his Democratic backers know what was about to occur. We were a union workforce and I saw about a third of the members support Reagan, some even in the union leadership. I still blame Reagan for the almost complete destruction of unions in America and along with the demise of pensions. his "Southern Strategy" (unadulterated racism) which basically changed the entire South to Republican. His trickle-down economics because the backbone of GOP economics and still is alive and well today (never worked) and the hypocrisy of his "War on Drugs", all the while subverting Congress with the Iran/Contra plan that gave a green light to the drug cartels.

And yet, even after all of that he remains the unquestionable GOP god who started the downfall of the middle class in America. I wouldn't say it has gotten a lot worse but definitely a lit more "in your face".

Fuck Reagan.

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Response to walkingman (Reply #64)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 10:53 PM

114. I was naive at the time...

Later, saw some of the contra "freedom fighter" shit upclose. Then came the lies and they made Ollie North a hero! My assembly line in Pgh., PA before the military was all about Unions and the Democratic party. Depends on environment, experiences, what you learn and don't learn.

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Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:36 AM

17. Romney?

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:18 AM

11. It really is shocking when people who you think have every reason

to be knowledgeable about the facts seem to obviously choose the charlatan. The obvious charlatan. The obvious and deliberate lies and the spin that he seems to accept the worldview of authoritarianism. You expect it from the people who live lives of willful ignorance just because they can’t be bothered to educate themselves and because they live and work with people just like themselves. To me your friend shouldn’t have the attitude or experience that seems he belongs in that group even if he is a Republican.

I hope your words didn’t fall on deaf ears. But I admire you for saying them in today’s fractious political climate.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:46 AM

20. I find it frightening. I'm at such a loss to

understand when I run into people like this who are reasonable, nice people but are such brainwashed zombies when it comes to trump. It’s such an odd, weird juxtaposition of slavish, zombie-like worship against the backdrop of otherwise normal, common sense behaviors in the entire remainder of their existence. It frightens me because I just cannot explain it - or predict it - and makes me wonder how widespread this crazy, brain-eating, trump worship “virus” really is. It frightens me how impossible it is to reason with these people. Their unshakable resoluteness about trump is so weird. So twilight zone. Beyond shock, I feel actual fear when I run into one of these situations. Because the limbaugh/ Fox News / republican campaign to create a cult is working. On a very, very large scale. And I’m afraid.

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Response to pnwest (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:12 AM

29. I can understand "people like this" supporting Romney or the late John McCain.

I can even understand them having supported Nixon. Trump has no more in common with those human, but fallible men (even Nixon) than the worst alien creature in a scary Sci-Fi movie. He's a very rare type of humonoid who seems not to have mentally outgrown his "terrible twos" stage, and is a position to exploit it to his heart's content. Very good description of "Trump worship," which seems to bring out the "WORST angels of our nature."

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Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:22 PM

58. Thanks for your compliment

I won't get into a debate or argument with a Trumper/Republican because it's a waste of time and my blood pressure is high enough.

However, I also won't accept someone else's opinion without challenge. You can say your piece, I'll say mine and then let's go play 18 holes and talk about anything except religion or politics.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:24 AM

12. I've said before and will continue to say...

...Dolt45 doesmn't have supporters, he has worshipers.

SICK.

RESIST!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:28 AM

13. Yeah it's really weird how so many can be manipulated.

I have been wrong about things through out my life. But I try to base my opinions on reality. When I come across someone who I think is smart and kind and find out they ate racist and willing to unquestionably feed from the trough of propaganda, it amazes me.

Why don't they question their assumptions? Why are they so easily manipulated? It is just weird and I don't understand their blindness.

But one defining characteristic is an emotional reaction. They are not just racist, they are angry racist. They are not just Fox watchers, they hate all other news shows. They don't just vote for Trump, they worship him. It's this underlying emotionalism that seems to be a requirement for them to stay in this state of stupidity.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:28 AM

48. Well said!

I agree with the part about the emotionalism. It's like if they aren't fervent supporters, the other supporters will think they aren't good enough.

It's scary to a degree. As to not questioning themselves, I think they are afraid to question. They seek out like minded people and then take comfort and gain strength from being amongst a "majority" who feel the same way as they do. In essence, they feed off one another.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 05:01 PM

87. Yeah, exactly, if they don't scream and swear loud enough the others will

Throw them out of the crazy-club.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:08 PM

99. Ooooo... you're close to 10,000!

Got any special plans?




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Response to druidity33 (Reply #99)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:59 PM

103. Hadn't really thought about it.

Any suggestions?

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:35 PM

61. Their underlying emotionalism

Your last paragraph is spot-on. Well written and your observation is acute.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:37 AM

18. As an aging white man, I sometimes feel as if I'm a secret agent

(I'm not assuming that about you entirely, but simply stating it about myself)

As an aging white man, I sometimes feel as if I'm a secret agent gathering intel on the idiots, especially if I'm at a golf course, the gym or some other place conservatives might hang out in a liberal Iowa city.

My father is about to turn 81, lives in Lincoln, Nebraska, and likes to go to the local Hy-Vee every Friday for breakfast with a group of similar age and makeup. Before we go, he always gives me the scoop about which of the other old men are MAGAts. Last time, there was only one left. Then again, Lincoln is a university city and the state capital.

I know I appreciate hearing the intelligence you've gathered.

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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:38 PM

63. We're both in the spy-business!

Yep, I'm an aging WASP, without the religion.

The thing I've learned in my 62 years is that I cannot change anyone's mind or opinion. Especially as they get older and set in their ways.

Alas.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:49 AM

23. Well, in his case he sounds clueless as opposed to evil.

Maybe your comments will make him think a bit and do some research beyond Fox.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:52 AM

24. The Fox brainwashing is what is at fault here.

I have lost a couple of friends who began watching Fox when it first came on the scene and I could see them change over time. More angry, more right wing, more hateful than they were before. It changes people if that is the only news they watch or read.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:05 PM

53. The younger guys Gutfeld and Watters that are slimy little character assassins

bother me, because I'm afraid they reach a large 20-something crowd of fresh new racists/misogynists that could be a significant voting block. I hope I'm wrong. Nov 3rd will answer my question.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:03 PM

78. Right on

I think it was newsweek that talked about Fox News/Limbaugh 24/7 will in fact brainwash the person watching/listening.
The Norcoms, (North Korean Communists) used this technique on U.S. POW's and it only took 30 days to do the trick....

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 09:58 AM

25. Unfortunately the years of Fox propaganda has taken a serious toll on Rs minds.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:00 AM

26. I know I

run across this too often. Convincing them they are wrong is an exercise in futility. I was golfing with regulars I golf with on a regular basis and one of them brought up Trump and how happy he was that Trump was triggering the "libs". That seemed to be his only criteria for why Trump is doing a good job in his mind. It is sad and I just sat there in not so stunned silence. There is nothing you can say to these people. It's like trying to convince an evangelical there is no God.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:06 AM

27. My mom has stepped away from

Locust Hill in Rochester NY. Still has the membership there (my dad was one of the first black members - mom is white) . . .

The temperature ain't what is used to be. People had differences, but they were there to play a mean game of golf.

She goes to a public golf close a bit closer to her house now.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:17 AM

30. Having grown up on Long Island I appreciate your post. Remember, we are the 60%, and as long

as we stay united we shall win. Heck, we had better, for if not, kiss the human species goodbye.

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Response to c-rational (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:21 PM

80. Or at the very least...

The republic of the USA as we now know it.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:19 AM

33. Your interaction with him is a key way to break the spell of FOX News (Entertainment)

These kitchen table discussions are where we have a chance to open some eyes. Not all will ever allow themselves to understand it. But you can influence the outlook of a number of people that way.

As many of us do, we can be defensive of our positions in a discussion but shift afterwards as we digest the exchange - maybe even a couple of years later ... where it clicks in.

I was a member of some 'elite' clubs. Racism against non-whites. Anti-non Christian. Anti gay. Elitism - where they're above everyone else. I left all of them. Couldn't stand being around people like that. No regrets. Haven't missed it for a second.

Golf is a great test. Very difficult to master. At least 50% mental. But it can also bring out the asshole in people. I used to play really early to avoid all the assholes.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:02 PM

66. Great observations

I hope you're right about the kitchen table discussions. I admire your optimism in that regard.

Golf is awesome in that it's fun, hard and revealing.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:23 AM

34. One thing I hate about Trumpism (among others) is the evangelical nature of it...

They are compelled to brag and "share" the glory of their dear leader. It's getting worse and worse, too.

It's like half of the country has turned into cheesy used car salesman, the kind that can't keep from telling about all the "new inventory" he's just got at your Sundy afternoon barbeque. Sheesh, give it a fucking rest.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:30 AM

49. I saw your separate thread on this issue.

These people are like drug pushers. They want more addicts.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

36. This kind of thinking always comes back to Fox and Limbaugh! We here on DU are

rational thinking and fact based non idiots!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:39 AM

38. Beware of "nice" people. nt

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Response to hay rick (Reply #38)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:32 PM

82. Indeed - Nice does not equal good.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:43 AM

39. fond LI childhood memories

we moved to setauket summer of 1963 and St. Georges golf course was the place to go for sledding in the winter. it was also the short cut to gumbus deli on 25-A via Long Island RR tracks.

Rennisance Technologies now stands in the farmers field that was a short cut to the new strip mall. Associated with Robert and Rebecca Mercer. Robert has a mansionn in Head of the Harbor and was working towartds his math/computer science PHD at Stony Brook at around the same time my BIL did.

Great memories, and glad I finally moved away in 1979. Way too crowded and expensive, not to mention ruined.


-90% Jimmy

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:58 AM

41. I hate golf culture about as much as I hate Trump

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:59 AM

42. "Clueless, stupid and evil"

In time we will learn the actual break down in that 40%. To me it makes no difference I despise them all.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:04 AM

43. Very enlightening tale

I agree with your last two sentences completely, although it's disheartening to finally accept that this is really who and what 40% of us really are.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:15 AM

47. Fox news lobotomies effect all walks of life. nt

Last edited Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:46 AM

50. Diagnosing the 40%.....

Mostly, it's just that they're ignorant...but worse, the majority of Trumpists are aggressively stupid AND racist.

Not a good combo in the 21st century.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:01 PM

52. They are for sure completely brainwashed by hate media, but they have to have prejudices and

irrational fears that can be stoked in the first place. My mother originally loathed Trump. Like most Republicans in the beginning, she KNEW he was a disgusting, immoral, grifting bully. But like the rest, she eventually drank the Kool-Aid, and even flew 3000 miles to attend the thing's inauguration w/my MAGAt sister. They think "others" are a threat to their way of life (white, heterosexual, Christian, patriarchal) so they are willing to pretend the emperor has clothes if that will help them keep (or take back) what they see as "theirs."

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:15 PM

54. Your last sentence says it all.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:17 PM

56. It seems to fluctuate between

40 to 49%. Very scary.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:36 PM

62. I don't think it is 40%

I would say "as high as 40%" but whatever the percentage is, it is still too high. The problem is that conservatives no longer have to live in reality. They do not hear the same information that the vast majority of other people hear. They are to use an over used phrase, "in a bubble".

Before the advent of Fox, right wing radio (which I know, preceded Fox), and the right wing internet, we all had to argue from the same information. You could certainly spin the information and right wingers were are dedicated to their viewpoints as they are now.

The major difference today is that when all you watch is Fox and all you listen to is right wing radio, you get a completely skewed and inaccurate picture of reality. You get two messages when you go down that rabbit hole. 1. Whatever the information they are feeding you. AND 2. That all other news is "liberal" and thus biased and wrong. That keeps people from fact checking or looking to other sources to verify anything. They believe they have the only truth and everyone else is out to get them.

The problem is how to eliminate the influence of right wing media without damaging or destroying the freedom of speech.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:52 PM

65. Two quotes for you -



To paraphrase Philip Pullman ‘We have reached a point in history where the really stupid is indistinguishable from the really wicked’


“There is no polite way to suggest to someone that they have devoted their life to a folly.” -Daniel Dennett

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:10 PM

67. Thanks for the quotes

They're perfect for our times.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #67)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:33 PM

83. Unfortunately yes.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:26 PM

69. Fox is screwing up the minds of too many Americans!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:05 PM

71. Two of the smartest, kindest, most gentle-spirited people...

...we know long time summer neighbors at a lake where we have a small cottage, are Trump voters. I knew they were Romney supporters, based on a refrigerator magnet, but I really thought they would draw the line at Trump. I was shocked - and seriously disappointed. I am guessing they have no idea that their support for Donnie Dipshit has, unfortunately, changed how I feel about them.

I’m cordial, but I no longer seek out their company.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #71)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:12 PM

72. We have had a similar experience

We have a weekend home in the Catskills Mountains and are friendly with many of the folks around us. We've spent numerous evenings enjoying the river and mountains together.

Several of them have revealed themselves to be Trumpers and we just can't spend time with them anymore. I cannot respect anyone who supports this idiot.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:30 PM

74. YOUR PROBLEM IS WITH CONSERVATIVES WHO HATE DEMOCRATS AND LIBERALS

 

Our biggest problem is combating conservative talk radio and foxnews. Most of the people on the right are consumed with this medium. THEY THINK RUSH LIMPBAUGH IS GOD!! And they agree with everything he says. The mega dittos are the worst because they don't know crap and depend on rush to inform them. They wait for hours on the phone waiting to get through only to waste time telling him how great he is and how well informed he is. Many will waste the first 3 minutes of a call simply praising him and telling him "he right!" These are the people you end up arguing with in the stores or on the golf courses. Rush has even brain washed trump. Listen to trump speak, a lot of what he says is straight from rush limpbaugh. Rush even talked rump into shutting down the government for more than 30 days! OUR PROBLEM IS WITH CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, WE HAVE NOT LEARNED TO COMBAT THIS MEGASTRUCTURE OF COMMUNICATION. And whats worse is that moderates are lured to it because our message, the progressive message, at times, can be weak and uninteresting. The progressive radio shows are full of commercials and low on content. MSNBC, CNN, and others tend to waiver to both sides and often have commentators who talk "above our heads" thus boring the hell out of us. Foxnews on the other hand speaks to the common man in common language. Rush limpbaugh just says whatever he wants in any manner he wants. This is what the democrats need! Bloomberg is spending millions, hundreds of millions of dollars to be president when he has no chance. But if he were to take that money and start a communications network of democratic and liberal voices who can tell it like it is, his money would be put to much better use! Know this: RUSH LIMPBAUGH HATES LIBERALS. And so does his mega ditto-heads. He will say anything (even if it's ridiculously false) to influence his followers including trump!

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Response to blakstoneranger (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:49 PM

76. I don't disagree with anything you wrote

The point of my story was simply the curiousness of the encounter and the realization that most of self-identified Republicans, (they are NOT Conservatives, (read William F. Buckley, Jr.'s works to clearly understand Conservativism)), have a detached experience of Reality.

You're right on point that Trump spouts whatever nonsense he hears from Limbaugh, Fox & Friends or any other right-wing outlet.

I've worked in radio, music, records, theater, TV and films for more than 40 years. All of the distribution points of most media are owned and controlled by large corporations that tend to be conservative. While these corporations want to avoid controversies, (they hurt sales), they have a fine sense of the pulse-points of their audiences. The content is dictated by the audiences' tastes.

Face it, most liberals don't spend their days listening to the radio or watching TV. Oddly, Republicans seem to do so. Why is that?

Anyway, the attempts to counter right-wing broadcasters has a meager history. For example, Air American failed. MSNBC has rarely had the viewership that Fox News has enjoyed. Again, why is that?

Lastly, I do not engage in arguments with Republican Trump supporters. It's a waste of time and my blood pressure is high enough.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:38 PM

75. If you really want to understand where all these people come from read or listen to this book

by Colin Woodard titled "American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America"

Does a great job of explaining why there are 30 to 40% of people in this country who feel the way they do. It also blows the mythology of the "United States" apart, you'll never think of the country the same way again.

Want to understand the "Trumpers" read the book.

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #75)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:09 PM

79. I remember reading the review when the book was first published

Here's a quote from the author:

"The cultural gulf between Appalachia and Yankeedom, Deep South and New Netherland is simply too large. But it’s conceivable that some new alliance could form to tip the balance.” (My emphasis.)

What could that "new alliance" be, I wonder?

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:26 PM

81. I understand. . .

I don't know very many people who support the Pussy-Grabber-In-Chief, but my parents live in an awfully red area of the country. Thankfully they are liberal dems and have always been. But what REALLY bothers me is when people down there just fucking ASSUME I am a repig. . . I would rather be called a thief or some other sort of criminal than a repig.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:53 PM

84. I was talking to one this morning, to make a

long story short he said Mitt Romney should be shot for treason.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 04:19 PM

85. PJMcK, our fundamental problem is global economic and asset inequality.

To regain perspective, I try to frequently remind myself that if it were not for enormous funding from the ultra-wealthy global right-wing - a direct result of unfettered capitalism - there would be no Fox News or Limbaugh, or at least not to any significant scale.....and there would be no Trump as president or millions brainwashed with their dogma.

The right-wing global elite fund right-wing media, dozens of powerful right-wing think tanks and contribute massively to right-wing political elections and causes around the world. Just look at what's happened to the UK and Brazil.

Most troubling is that it's getting worse, not better. I fear it will continue to do so until we can reverse that inequality.

Thanks for sharing your story...........

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #85)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:05 PM

93. Your fundamental observation makes a lot of sense

The enormous chasm between the wealthy and the common folk is tremendous.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 05:12 PM

88. That type of person always assumes that their views are universal

Conservative white males of middle age and older will typically speak as though everyone within earshot holds the same views, no matter how fucked up or repugnant those views are.

The same, incidentally, is true of white evangelical Christians. They simply can't imagine that someone might hold a different opinion, because their opinion is directly informed by Republican Jesus himself!

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 05:18 PM

89. A bumpy ride over a pretty big hill.

And that's about a best-case scenario, I think.

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Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #89)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:23 PM

108. If we make it over the hill, what's next?

It's become clear that our Constitution has become ineffectual since Republicans refuse to follow its prescriptions.

How does this get fixed if we survive the Era of Trump?

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 05:46 PM

90. The real test will be during your next encounter

I'll be interested in learning how things go during your next encounter. My guess is he becomes distant and reserved.

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Response to Prue (Reply #90)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:13 PM

95. Good observation

Actually, our interactions have almost all been about the game of golf. He invited me to play in a Pro-Am this coming May and when I left the Pro Shop, we said goodby with sincerity.

As I wrote, I like this man and it's kind of weird to like someone who is so fucked up politically!

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #95)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:24 PM

97. Good luck

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 05:54 PM

91. His ignorance doesn't surprise me. Nearly 40% voted for

Herbert Hoover--FOUR YEARS! into the Great Depression. And they didn't have FIX noise to deceive them.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 06:55 PM

92. You didn't get him to change his mind

... you just got him to stop talking ... so it's a small victory I guess.

A real victory would be when your friend decides to stop watching Fox News and instead listen to and read the real news. Do you think that will ever happen? Probably not.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #92)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:10 PM

94. No, I don't expect him to change his views

First of all, he's in his late 60s. Some people our age don't have the flexibility or mental agility to be able to have an open mind.

Secondly, most of his clients are wealthy white men in suburbia who share that perspective. I think that's why the golf pro thought that I would share his political viewpoint.

Ah, well...

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:18 PM

96. ugh

I get that a lot - people assuming I am just as ignorant as they are - assuming I MUST be conservative, dislike immigrants, etc. I fucking blast them, I challenge them, I NEVER stay silent - NEVER.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #96)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:19 PM

106. Generally, I agree with you

I also don't look for an argument.

In my many years, I've learned that I have very little influence on what others think or believe. My angry rants have certainly never changed another's opinions.

Nonetheless, I don't let people say things that are offensive to me without responding accordingly. I try to do this in a direct manner that doesn't force the discussion into a confrontation.

Frankly, I don't need that shit.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #106)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:21 PM

107. I just want them to know I am not a racist piece of shit

and that I KNOW they are a racist piece of shit

yes INDEED

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 07:56 PM

98. We will do quite well just to survive this mess.

The ride will indeed be very rough.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:19 PM

100. They are ignorant and slaves to FAUX news propaganda /nt

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:40 PM

101. I think the reason he just expected you to agree with him was because of the Long Island country

club culture.
He has probably mentioned these thoughts to members of the club and been richly rewarded. That tends to reinforce one’s held beliefs.
He must have had a major shock to have you respond negatively. Not surprising.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #101)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:15 PM

105. You've got it

But it's also instructive that he gets his "news" from Fox.

If one doesn't hear the facts, one doesn't know what's going on.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 08:50 PM

102. Are you both white?

White Rs just assume that all white people think like them.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #102)

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 10:12 PM

104. Yeah

Good point.

Sadly.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 06:49 AM

109. They are also

MisInformed. By their own choosing.

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Response to Soxfan58 (Reply #109)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:58 AM

111. I'm not sure about "choice"

Sometimes, I think Fox News viewers are just lazy both in their choice of "news" and more importantly, in their thinking.

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Response to PJMcK (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:58 AM

110. the gnewz MEdia has been brainwashing these people since reagan. pimp rite wings 1st and always.

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