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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,085 posts)
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 09:48 PM Feb 2020

Michigan Woman Brings Miniature Horse on Plane as Her Service Animal: 'He Is So Bonded with Me'

A miniature horse named Freckle Butt Fred recently had the pleasure of flying first class for the first time thanks to his human companion, Ronica Froese.

The 115-pound equine embarked on his inaugural plane ride across the United States on Feb. 7, flying from Grand Rapids, Michigan to Ontario, California with a stopover at the Dallas/Forth Worth International Airport, Froese tells PEOPLE.

As a specially trained service animal, Fred is technically allowed to accompany Froese — who owns Little Horses Big Smiles, a company that specializes in equine assisted therapy — on commercial flights.

Froese says she and Fred worked with other service horse handlers to prepare for the big trip, including sonic exercises to get the gentle creature accustomed to loud noises and potty training for when he needs to relieve himself at the airport.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michigan-woman-brings-miniature-horse-234848498.html

How about an emotional support grizzly bear?



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Michigan Woman Brings Miniature Horse on Plane as Her Service Animal: 'He Is So Bonded with Me' (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2020 OP
Name of airline please. Sneederbunk Feb 2020 #1
All airlines are required to allow people to fly with their service animals. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #26
Thank you for standing up for people. StarryNite Feb 2020 #59
Here's a photo. I feel sorry for the animal. pnwmom Feb 2020 #42
Same here 😩 secondwind Feb 2020 #54
oh god, I dont even want to look. Things like this really put me over the edge. there was this Kashkakat v.2.0 Feb 2020 #68
my emotional support nile crocodile will eat your over grown rat nt msongs Feb 2020 #2
Seriously seriously stupid. No, just no. Hekate Feb 2020 #3
The airline is mandated to permit it. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #12
I do. I grew up with horses but now am sensitized. Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #51
Legally, someone else's allergy Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #57
Legally, it pits one disability vs. another Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #72
Time to stop this! LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #4
So you think disabilities should not be accommodated? Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #13
If they want it accommodated do it at home. LiberalFighter Feb 2020 #15
The horse is NOT traveling as her emotional support animal. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #22
Her service horses (she has two) Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #38
I know a young woman who uses a service animal for mobility support. Mariana Feb 2020 #60
That is likely one of the reasons horses are one of two specific animals mentioned in ADA regs Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #62
Lifespan is definitely an issue, her dog will have to retire in a couple of years. nt. Mariana Feb 2020 #64
These are not service animals. Service animals are trained to perform *specific tasks* on behalf coti Feb 2020 #20
This miniature horse IS a service animal, not emotional support animal. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #21
An invisible autoimmune disease warrants A HORSE? Goodheart Feb 2020 #24
I, for one, am grateful that the ADA exists - and while I don't like the Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #25
The part you're repeatedly ignoring is the part where it says "...miniature horses that have been coti Feb 2020 #27
I'm not ignoring it - Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #35
It should not be necessary to disclose private information Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #39
When it gets to the absurd point of having horses in passenger areas of planes Goodheart Feb 2020 #28
I hope you never have a disablity Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #36
I hope so, too. Goodheart Feb 2020 #67
And her business just happens to be equine assisted therapy... Luciferous Feb 2020 #5
Many people choose careers related to their own lives. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #14
FINALLY, an answer to the age-old question, "Where does an 800-lb. gorilla sit?" VOX Feb 2020 #6
I felt about .0075% better about this... VarryOn Feb 2020 #7
A service animal has to be trained to perform specific services for its owner Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #10
Being disabled doesn't automatically make a person a saint (I'm 100% physically disabled) Nature Man Feb 2020 #40
Ugh. This thread is so disgusting - Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #41
If it helps you mercuryblues Feb 2020 #53
Thank you. n/t Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #58
so how about some emotional support for these poor stressed out animals that get Kashkakat v.2.0 Feb 2020 #8
Service animals are selected, in part, for having a personality that is adapted Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #11
What about emotional support for fellow first class passengers Nature Man Feb 2020 #56
Service animals and emotional support animals are different things. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #9
This is my emotional support... flotsam Feb 2020 #16
She's trolling because she can. tenderfoot Feb 2020 #17
The seat-puncher needs to sit behind her some flight. SMC22307 Feb 2020 #19
You made me laugh! Tanuki Feb 2020 #37
... SMC22307 Feb 2020 #71
What happens when Freckle Butt Fred needs to take a poop? SMC22307 Feb 2020 #18
Just like he is trained to perform specific tasks (qualifying him as a service animal) Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #23
Being attached to an owner is not a "specific task" NT Rorey Feb 2020 #31
The article does not describe the specific tasks the service horse is trained to perform. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #32
We're going to just have to agree to disagree Rorey Feb 2020 #45
You, as a landlord, have the right to ask those questions of your tenants. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #65
you people act like you've never seen a "seeing eye" miniature horse eShirl Feb 2020 #29
Seeing eye miniature horse Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #34
Service animals are trained to perform a specific task Rorey Feb 2020 #30
So because she has a disability and chooses to disclose a general description (autoimmune) Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #33
See post 45 Rorey Feb 2020 #46
YOU don't have that right, any more than YOU have the right to her medical records. Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #61
Again, SHE said they're service animals. People lie because lax laws allow it. Rorey Feb 2020 #63
So I assume you are perfectly fine, then Ms. Toad Feb 2020 #66
What about asthmatics? Nonhlanhla Feb 2020 #43
The laws really need to be changed. Rorey Feb 2020 #48
Colorado has a law pertaining to false representation of a service animal Rorey Feb 2020 #50
A horse could be a formidable projectile in turbulent weather. JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2020 #44
and does he know how to use the oxygen mask? milestogo Feb 2020 #47
Apparently this horse is magical Rorey Feb 2020 #49
Yeah, but did they ask before reclining the seat? HAB911 Feb 2020 #52
Ah, the smell of fresh horseshit in a confined space! Nature Man Feb 2020 #55
I have to admit, that smell would be preferable to fresh emotionally supportive dog shit. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2020 #73
My personal opinion is that people are abusing the law. llmart Feb 2020 #69
An animal is not "medical equipment." It is not an inaminate object, It is a sentient being that Kashkakat v.2.0 Feb 2020 #70

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
26. All airlines are required to allow people to fly with their service animals.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:04 AM
Feb 2020

dogs and miniature horses are the two animals that are presumptively permitted.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
68. oh god, I dont even want to look. Things like this really put me over the edge. there was this
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:27 PM
Feb 2020

poor little dog I saw last time I flew - barking hysterically, trembling in fear and peeing all over. Woman was yukking it up with some other people talking about the dog but totally obvlious to its obvious stress and fear.

We mammals can pretty much read the body language of other mammals - I know stress and fear in an animal when I see it.

I know bone headed oblivious human when I see that too.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
12. The airline is mandated to permit it.
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:03 PM
Feb 2020

Service animals that are presumptively permitted are dogs and miniature horses.

Is there a reason you believe this particular service animal is less critical to the owner's ability to live independently than - for example - a seeing eye dog is for somoene who is blind?

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
51. I do. I grew up with horses but now am sensitized.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:05 AM
Feb 2020

I know several people who would go into anaphalactic shock from horse dander.

About 5% of the population is allergic to horses, and they can be bad. Bigger animal = more dander.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
57. Legally, someone else's allergy
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:51 AM
Feb 2020

Is not an appropriate reason to deny access to her service animal. You have the right to be seated as far away as possible, or to be transported on a different.

From a non-legal perspective, I have much more sympathy for your concerns than I do for everyone else in this thread who seems to believe they know better than her what her needs are - and are entitled to pass judgment on whether she has a disability or a real service animal. It can be a challenge to balance competing health-care needs.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
72. Legally, it pits one disability vs. another
Fri Feb 21, 2020, 03:57 PM
Feb 2020

Horse allergies tend to be more severe than dog allergies. I suspect one day this will happen if service horses become more popular - probably after a life thteatening evenr. Sitting far away does nothing in an airplane.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
13. So you think disabilities should not be accommodated?
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:06 PM
Feb 2020

The regulations implementing the ADA expressly identify both dogs and miniature horses as service animals, and businesses are required to accommodate them absent specific reasons to exclude them:

The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.


https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

LiberalFighter

(50,499 posts)
15. If they want it accommodated do it at home.
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:18 PM
Feb 2020

They are just using it as an excuse for the animals. They just don't want to use a blankie or stuff animal for their support.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
22. The horse is NOT traveling as her emotional support animal.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:20 AM
Feb 2020

It is traveling as her service animal. Would you make that remark to a blind person? Stay at home - or use a blankie or stuffed animal?

Read the article. Read the ADA regulations.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
38. Her service horses (she has two)
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:18 AM
Feb 2020

are for mobility assistance. Blankie's and stuffed animals are not terribly helpful in retrieving things or in providing balance and support while she is walking.

Fred is more for retrieving; Charlie is more for mobility support.

The informaiton is out there, if you want to do more than insult a person with a disability.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
60. I know a young woman who uses a service animal for mobility support.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:07 AM
Feb 2020

She has deformed feet and her service animal supports some of her weight, and helps her to stay upright when she's walking. He also fetches things for her, but that is not his primary job. Her service animal is a huge dog, but I can see how a properly trained miniature horse would do as well for her particular needs, maybe even better than the dog.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
62. That is likely one of the reasons horses are one of two specific animals mentioned in ADA regs
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:13 AM
Feb 2020

Horses are much better suited to bear weight than even large dogs - and have the added benefit that they live far longer so the person does not have to repeatedly replace their animal.

coti

(4,612 posts)
20. These are not service animals. Service animals are trained to perform *specific tasks* on behalf
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:42 PM
Feb 2020

of a disabled person. In fact, genuine advocates for people with disabilities are horrified by how an important law is being bastardized and taken advantage of by people who have no business taking animals the places they are doing so. This damages the plight of those disabled who have to have real, highly-trained service animals with them at all times. It turns the law into a mockery.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
21. This miniature horse IS a service animal, not emotional support animal.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:17 AM
Feb 2020

Read the article.


As a specially trained service animal, Fred is technically allowed to accompany Froese — who owns Little Horses Big Smiles, a company that specializes in equine assisted therapy — on commercial flights.

. . .

However, Froese says the trip did experience a few bumps along the way. While having a horse on a plane may be a rare occurrence, the trainer says she wishes “the public would understand that taking a photo or video with your cellphone of a service animal who is classified as medical equipment without the handler’s permission is extremely rude.”

. . .

Though Fred also works as a therapy horse alongside Froese’s two other miniature horses, Charlie and George, his owner says it’s important for him to be able to fly because he is a much-needed service animal.

“I don’t have a mental illness. I have an invisible autoimmune disease,” Froese tells PEOPLE. “Not all disabilities can be seen and we all deserve the same respect as the blind whose disability can be seen.”


She is not obligated to disclose what specific tasks her horse is trained to do in order to satisfy your curiousity, or to avoid being attacked as bastardizing the law.

And the ADA expressly recognizes miniature horses (and dogs) as service animals. That is precisely the reason I posted several times in this thread - because people were responding as it it was an emotional support animal.

Goodheart

(5,264 posts)
24. An invisible autoimmune disease warrants A HORSE?
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:28 AM
Feb 2020

A service dog fetches and guides. What can that horse do for an immune deficiency? Will she ride it when she has a fever or something?

Sorry. I'm not buying it.

As one poster said, this is a mockery.

We need a Federal law that only dogs and monkeys can fly as service animals. If you require anything else hire a van and driver. Sorry.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
25. I, for one, am grateful that the ADA exists - and while I don't like the
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:02 AM
Feb 2020

bigger box of chocolates theory of accommodatiosn, in this case - based on the ableist tone in this thread, I'm glad that horses are expressly included in the box.

The regulations implementing the ADA expressly identify two animals as presumptively permitted service animals: dogs and miniature horses.

In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.


So there are regulations - and they are the exact opposite of what you hope for.

There are dozens of autoimmune disorders - including type 1 diabetes, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, MS, Guillain-Barre syndrome. Most do not cause fevers. Many of these do cause pain or muscle weakness (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, MS, Guillain-Barre syndrome). For such diseases, a stronger service animal - one that that can perform physical tasks - such as assisting in mobility or balance - may be critical. As to type 1 diabetes, low blood sugar is a life-threatening condition - and service horses can be trained to detect low blood sugar (in the same way dogs are). There are also individuals who cannot work with dogs for religious reasons - the miniature horse allows these individuals to have a service animal that meets their disability needs without requiring them to violate their religious beliefs.

I have no idea what this person's disability is, or how her horse is trained to meet them. And, frankly, it is none of my business. The ADA requires accommodation of service animal - she is entitled to have her service animal with her.

coti

(4,612 posts)
27. The part you're repeatedly ignoring is the part where it says "...miniature horses that have been
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:08 AM
Feb 2020

individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities." Again, there is no information in this article that even implies that the horse has an actual function for the woman- and that is the very spirit of the ADA. People with disabilities must be given reasonable accommodations that allow them to function.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
35. I'm not ignoring it -
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:43 AM
Feb 2020

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm pointing out that it's none of your business.

People do not lose their right to privacy merely because they use a servcice animal. She clearly says the horse is a service animal - and here, and in other articles, clearly distinguishes it from an emotional support animal.

Had she described the horse as an emotional support animal (or it was unclear that she understood the distinction) this would be a different converation. But she didn't. She clearly and repeatedly described the horse as her service animal - AND - went so far as to point out that she is not mentally ill - and to identify a class of largely disabling conditions as the reason she needs the horse (almost certainly to further distinguish her service horse from emotional support animals).

But just as you don't get to pry into the details of someone's blindness, or deafness, or the tools (animal or mechanical) a person with a visible disability uses accommodate their disabilities, you don't get to inquire into the details of this woman's disability or the specific ways the horse helps her cope with it. She is entitled to her privacy, and the fact that her service animal is less usual than a dog doesn't deprive her of her right not to disclose more than she chooses about how the animal assists her - or the specific tasks it is trained to perform in order to provide that assistance.

Under the ADA, she is entitled to have her service animal with her. Period.

But - since apparently everyone believes they have a right to know because she dared to travel with her servcie animal, she's been shamed into providing personal details that are - frankly - no one's business:

I don't need to explain why I have or need a service horse but it appears lots of people don't understand. So here's a little look into what it's like.

So last night my disease was questioned and my need for a service animal by I person I thought was a good friend. What's it like to have an IBD right here are words to describe it.

When you can barely bend over to pick something up because it feels like Freddy Kruger is taking his nails and ripping them through your bowels a service horse helps in that. Fred being directive retrieval trained can pick things up I drop and fetch things I need.

When your bowels feel like this walking across the room becomes a chore. A service horse can help with that. My co workers at work can tell you they know when I'm not well by how I'm walking. I depend on Charlie a lot outside when I'm super sick and he is always by my side to help me during feed time and such. I lean on him, he helps me walk, and he makes sure I don't loose my balance. He retrieves the grain buckets and hay pillows gladly because he knows what his job is. These are all things to some degree Fred is learning but can't fully learn until he is done growing and his joints are mature. He won't be able to do mobility to the extent that Charlie does because of his small size but that's why me having 2 different sizes mini service horses is a fit.


https://www.facebook.com/rfroese23/posts/10219160781542771

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
39. It should not be necessary to disclose private information
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:38 AM
Feb 2020

to be treated with basic human respect - but Fred is trained to retrieve items and is in training to provide mobility and balance support.

And - this woman whose life is already challenging enough because of the disability she is living with has apparently been shamed into disclosing more of the details about her disability (and specifically how her service animal helps her) that she initially chose to keep private.


I don't need to explain why I have or need a service horse but it appears lots of people don't understand. So here's a little look into what it's like.

So last night my disease was questioned and my need for a service animal by I person I thought was a good friend. What's it like to have an IBD right here are words to describe it.

When you can barely bend over to pick something up because it feels like Freddy Kruger is taking his nails and ripping them through your bowels a service horse helps in that. Fred being directive retrieval trained can pick things up I drop and fetch things I need.

When your bowels feel like this walking across the room becomes a chore. A service horse can help with that. My co workers at work can tell you they know when I'm not well by how I'm walking. I depend on Charlie a lot outside when I'm super sick and he is always by my side to help me during feed time and such. I lean on him, he helps me walk, and he makes sure I don't loose my balance. He retrieves the grain buckets and hay pillows gladly because he knows what his job is. These are all things to some degree Fred is learning but can't fully learn until he is done growing and his joints are mature. He won't be able to do mobility to the extent that Charlie does because of his small size but that's why me having 2 different sizes mini service horses is a fit.

Being I was in the hospital last week with a bowel obstruction it's going to take my bowels probably months to recover. Inflammation is a horrible thing. It makes you not want to get out of bed in the morning.

. . .

Last night I was picking up some garbage and I dropped a piece on the floor. My stomach is killing me and Fred immediately tasked picked up the garbage and handed it to me. It's exactly what I needed feeling the way I do and he did exactly the job I trained him to do perfectly.

. . .

I really want his service page to be so people can learn but I also don't want his page and social media to make me feel the way I have on numerous occasions that last 2 weeks.


https://www.facebook.com/rfroese23/posts/10219160781542771

Hope you're happy that shaming and patronizing attitudes like the one you have shown here contributed to coercing a person with a disability into disclosing more than she wanted to, and more than she had any obligation to disclose.

Goodheart

(5,264 posts)
28. When it gets to the absurd point of having horses in passenger areas of planes
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:16 AM
Feb 2020

no, I don't think disabilities should be accommodated. Sorry.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
36. I hope you never have a disablity
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:55 AM
Feb 2020

for which you need an accommodation that someone else deems absurd.

Goodheart

(5,264 posts)
67. I hope so, too.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:11 PM
Feb 2020

But if I ever need a service horse I'm sure I'd still think of other people, too, and take a cargo van instead of a plane.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
14. Many people choose careers related to their own lives.
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:09 PM
Feb 2020

My daugher, who consumes $200,000 in medical care a year just recently decided to train to be a medical coder, because of the challenges she has encountered this year mud wrestling with her care provider and the insurance companies. She's fought battles over $60,000 in care provided to her, that was denied (in substantial part) because of failures in coding.

So it is not at all surprising that someone who needs a service animal is also in the business of training them.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
6. FINALLY, an answer to the age-old question, "Where does an 800-lb. gorilla sit?"
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 10:13 PM
Feb 2020

Answer: In first class, next to its human companion with special needs.

It’s getting ridiculous.

 

VarryOn

(2,343 posts)
7. I felt about .0075% better about this...
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 10:17 PM
Feb 2020

When it said she at least paid for for an extra ticket. Then, she admitted she didnt even have a mental illness. Wait, what?

Going forward, I can quit assuming mental issues when I see someone with one of these.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
10. A service animal has to be trained to perform specific services for its owner
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 10:58 PM
Feb 2020

Merely providing emotional support is the job of an emotional support animal (which is not presumptively permitted everywhere).

It would be uncommon for someone with a service animal to have one because of a mental illness. Although there are some exceptions (PTSD and anxiety, for example), generally service animals assist with physical conditions (blindness, seizures, mobility disorders).

Nature Man

(869 posts)
40. Being disabled doesn't automatically make a person a saint (I'm 100% physically disabled)
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 03:43 AM
Feb 2020

sounds like she's gaming the system.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
41. Ugh. This thread is so disgusting -
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 04:22 AM
Feb 2020

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

It has nothing to do with being a saint.

People with disabilities do not lose their right to privacy merely because need an accommodation for their disabilities - even if that accommodation comes in the form of a miniature horse rather than the more traditional dog. She clearly identifid her horse as a service animal -clearly said it was a service animal - NOT - an emotional support animal, and clearly identified it was for a physical disability. Beyond that - the details of of her condition, or of how her service animal helps her perform the functions of daily living are none of our business.

This shaming is disgraceful - especially coming from someone who is disabled.

I have done further research. She has two service animals, and has succumbed to the past two weeks of shaming (on top of coping with being hospitalized in relation to her disability) and has made further disclosures.

She has two service animals - both horses. Fred (the one who flew with her) retrieves items and will eventually provide some mobility and balance support once his bones are mature. Charlie (older and larger) provides her primary mobility and balance support.

mercuryblues

(14,491 posts)
53. If it helps you
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:21 AM
Feb 2020

I agree with you. This is a service animal that is trained to provide her the physical support she needs. She was also very accommodating to his needs and other passengers IE: short flights, bought a 1st class seat next to her for room and has a fitted suit on him incase other passengers were allergic to horses.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
8. so how about some emotional support for these poor stressed out animals that get
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 10:34 PM
Feb 2020

carted around and put thru loads of unnecessary stress by selfish people.


Whenever I see an animal freaking out in an airport - ie a loud, chaotic strange environment - it really upsets me. Where's MY emotional support?

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
11. Service animals are selected, in part, for having a personality that is adapted
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:00 PM
Feb 2020

to such circumstances - and receives extensive training both as to environmnt - and the tasks it performs for its owner.

This horse is not an emotional support animal. It is a service animal. They are different things.

Nature Man

(869 posts)
56. What about emotional support for fellow first class passengers
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:30 AM
Feb 2020

who don't want to share minimal, confined space with a goddamn horse AND pay for the "privilege?"

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
9. Service animals and emotional support animals are different things.
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 10:53 PM
Feb 2020

Dogs and horses are two types of service animals that are specifically permitted in the ADA regulations (Horses can be excluded basedon an assessment that includes (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.

Airlines are not (as a general rule) required to permit emotional support animals on board. Nor are other animals such as grizzly bears, presumptively permitted as service animals.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
16. This is my emotional support...
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:23 PM
Feb 2020

...naked hooker-and if you think having one doesn't improve my emotions it just proves you oppose those of us who are mood-challenged!

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
18. What happens when Freckle Butt Fred needs to take a poop?
Wed Feb 19, 2020, 11:37 PM
Feb 2020

Who cleans it up? Or is he wearing an equine diaper? Is the diaper changed on the plane? Are the passengers enjoying the aroma of miniature horse poop as it wafts through the recycled air vents? Potty trained, his emotional support person says. Does he know how to slide the little "Occupied" thingie and hover over the bowl so as not to touch that disgusting thing? Thoroughly wash his hooves while singing the Happy Birthday song twice? So many questions...

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
23. Just like he is trained to perform specific tasks (qualifying him as a service animal)
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:27 AM
Feb 2020

he is also trained regarding defecation.


Froese says she and Fred worked with other service horse handlers to prepare for the big trip, including sonic exercises to get the gentle creature accustomed to loud noises and potty training for when he needs to relieve himself at the airport.

According to Froese, Fred now knows how to defecate on command and pee on astroturf found in most pet relief areas.


Read the article.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
32. The article does not describe the specific tasks the service horse is trained to perform.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:23 AM
Feb 2020

Frankly, people with disabilities are not obligated to explain to you (or any other member of the curious public) specifically what that disability is, or the specific tasks the service animal is trained to performed, in order to be entitled to have their service animal with them (including on planes).

Just because a service animal is attached to its owner does not mean it is not also trained to perform specific tasks. Would you make a simliar comment to the owner of a seeing-eye dog who, in describing traveling with her dog, included a comment that her dog was attached to its owner?

As to whether this horse is a service animal (allowed wherever the owner goes) or an emotional support animal (can be excluded):

As a specially trained service animal, Fred is technically allowed to accompany Froese — who owns Little Horses Big Smiles, a company that specializes in equine assisted therapy — on commercial flights.

. . .

However, Froese says the trip did experience a few bumps along the way. While having a horse on a plane may be a rare occurrence, the trainer says she wishes “the public would understand that taking a photo or video with your cellphone of a service animal who is classified as medical equipment without the handler’s permission is extremely rude.
. . .

Though Fred also works as a therapy horse alongside Froese’s two other miniature horses, Charlie and George, his owner says it’s important for him to be able to fly because he is a much-needed service animal.

“I don’t have a mental illness. I have an invisible autoimmune disease,” Froese tells PEOPLE. “Not all disabilities can be seen and we all deserve the same respect as the blind whose disability can be seen.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
45. We're going to just have to agree to disagree
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:11 AM
Feb 2020

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:47 AM - Edit history (1)

I did a lot of reading at the ADA.gov site.

I strongly suspect that the owner of this miniature horse is bending the system, or outright breaking the rules, because she knows that she can......because everyone is afraid of a lawsuit.

I will also put some text in bold. SHE SAID that her pet horse is a "service animal". Guess what. People lie.

If you go to the ADA.gov site, you can read this:

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

If you can post a link to a more current set of rules by the ADA, I'd like to check it out. I'm a landlord, so this issue is important to me. I'm pretty turned off when an applicant for one of my houses tries to pull one over on me by claiming that their pet is a service animal so they can bypass the rule that I have to have that they can't have a dog that's on the list of ones my insurance company doesn't allow.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
65. You, as a landlord, have the right to ask those questions of your tenants.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:26 AM
Feb 2020

Your other tenants, or the general public do not. As far as I know, you were not, in the role of granting accommodation a to her on this flight.

What you are entitled to as a landlord is a entirely different matter than heaping public ridicule on someone, calling them a liar and a cheat because they did not publicly disclose the details of their disability to the world, when their use of a less common service animal draws attention to her.

The public shaming has worked, though. Fred is currently trained to perform retrieval tasks to accommodate a disability that impairs her mobility. When his bones mature he will provide mobility assistance, although less than her other slightly larger second service horse since his smaller size will not permit him to bear as much weight.

eShirl

(18,466 posts)
29. you people act like you've never seen a "seeing eye" miniature horse
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:21 AM
Feb 2020

maybe you should educate yourselves about it?

As Gregory House once said, "When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U."

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
30. Service animals are trained to perform a specific task
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:25 AM
Feb 2020

All this woman said was that her miniature horse if bonded to her and does whatever she asks it to do. I'm curious as to what specific task this guy does for her. It's kinda sounding like SHE is calling him a service animal when he's really her emotional support animal.

She disclosed that she has an autoimmune disease, so one would think she would also disclose what specific task her horse performs for her.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
33. So because she has a disability and chooses to disclose a general description (autoimmune)
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 02:27 AM
Feb 2020

you are entitled to know everything about her condition and the specific tasks her service animal performs before you respect her rights under the ADA to have her service animal with her?

That is really patronizing and ableist.

The ideal service animal would be bonded with its owner and would do whatever the owner asks of it. Having a good relationship with your service animal (and describing it as such) does not make it not a service animal.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
46. See post 45
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:19 AM
Feb 2020

I'll just add, I have read a lot of things online where people with pets are frustrated that they can't find a place to rent, and others will tell them that they can go to this or that site online and buy a vest, collar, whatever for their animal that says, "Service Animal".

And I'll repeat, according to the ADA.gov site, yes, you CAN ask what service an animal provides.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
61. YOU don't have that right, any more than YOU have the right to her medical records.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:09 AM
Feb 2020

That is a right belonging to the accommodating entity. A person with a disability does not lose her right to privacy, in general, merely because she has a disability. And it is inappropriate for members of the general public to ridicule her or demand she prove that she is not a liar.

But she has succumbed to the shaming of people like you and has disclosed more detail.

She has two horses as service animals. Charlie is larger and fully grown. He provides mobility, balance, and retrieval support. Fred currently performs retrieval tasks and, once his bones have sufficiently matured will also provide some mobility support, but less than Charley because of his smaller size.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
63. Again, SHE said they're service animals. People lie because lax laws allow it.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:14 AM
Feb 2020

Listen, I've got a disabled daughter. Your hostility is offensive. I'm done.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
66. So I assume you are perfectly fine, then
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 11:57 AM
Feb 2020

With random members of the public demanding your daughter prove she is disabled, and prove why she needs specific accommodations (and if she declines, it is perfectly fine for them to call her a liar)?

I am hostile, and frankly, as the parent of a child with a disability you should be too.

My daughter has a related disease to the one this woman has. Her disability is similarly invisible - and she had to drop out of college because of its repeated refusal to accommodate the unpredictable nature of her disease. By the time the college finally got their lawyer involved (who agreed completely with the accommodations requested three years earlier, before she was forced to take three successive medical leaves) it was too late. Their illegal and uncaring response contributed to anxiety that (in combination with her other disabilities) made it impossible for her to complete her education.

So it cuts really close to home when I see people -especially people who have absolutely no connection to granting accommodations calling a person with a disability a liar because she chooses not to open all the details of her disability open to the public so they can judge whether she is worthy enough. Even more so when it turns out that she has a companion disease to the one my daughter has.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
43. What about asthmatics?
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 07:11 AM
Feb 2020

I once almost died from a bad asthma attack after exposure to horses. If I have to share a plane with a horse it can literally cause me serious harm. But apparently only this woman’s disability is worthy of protection, and not the real physical disability if those of us with animal allergies and asthma?!

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
48. The laws really need to be changed.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:22 AM
Feb 2020

I completely agree with you. Your life shouldn't be endangered because of people like this woman.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
50. Colorado has a law pertaining to false representation of a service animal
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:57 AM
Feb 2020

The punishment is a ridiculously small fine, which I'm sure does little to deter people from breaking it.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
49. Apparently this horse is magical
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:30 AM
Feb 2020

It may even be a miniature unicorn.

What I'd really like to know is how people who actually need an ACTUAL service animal feel about oafs who try to pass their pets off as service animals.

Nature Man

(869 posts)
55. Ah, the smell of fresh horseshit in a confined space!
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 10:28 AM
Feb 2020

what's not to like?

I'm sure horse shitting control technology has advanced this far!

llmart

(15,499 posts)
69. My personal opinion is that people are abusing the law.
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:28 PM
Feb 2020

I had not flown for about 6 years and I took my first flight after that six years this past November. While standing in line waiting for my luggage to show up, I watched as people came down the escalator from another flight. I counted 15 people with dogs in the 15 minutes I stood there. They were mostly small dogs. Some of the people with the small dogs looked to be twenty-somethings. I guarantee you that most of those people just didn't want to put their dogs in cargo so they got some phony excuse that they were a "service" dog.

Yes, this is getting ridiculous. And I'm saying that as someone who has trained and raised service dogs and worked with many, many people who actually needed those dogs.

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
70. An animal is not "medical equipment." It is not an inaminate object, It is a sentient being that
Thu Feb 20, 2020, 12:47 PM
Feb 2020

humans since the dawn of time have had bonds with and strong feelings for.

So people ARE going to have concern for the well being of an animal that they would not have for your wheel chair or oxygen tank or whatever. They ARE going to perceive you as having a privilege that they don't have, and dang right they are going to be irked if it looks like some are abusing the system or putting their animal .thru undue stress or adding to their own stress level.

Seems to me people with legitimate need would not object to certification requirements and - yeah - if youre going to go public (she didn't need to) then tell us your story so that we can learn. Snippy scolding is not useful.

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