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Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:35 PM

The Germans thought they were free and fighting for freedom

This passage has never been more relevant in America than today.

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

... But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.”

—Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45

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Reply The Germans thought they were free and fighting for freedom (Original post)
Johnny2X2X Thursday OP
Kota Thursday #1
live love laugh Thursday #6
Brother Buzz Thursday #2
Moostache Thursday #3
The Blue Flower Thursday #5
live love laugh Thursday #7
Desert grandma Thursday #4
Wounded Bear Thursday #8
live love laugh Thursday #9
Efilroft Sul Thursday #10
lunatica Thursday #11
Johnny2X2X Thursday #12
burrowowl Thursday #13

Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:45 PM

1. I think we need massive protests.

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Response to Kota (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 02:23 PM

6. Me too. nt

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:46 PM

2. Might be a good place to drop Göring's jailhouse interview

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

.................................

In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:51 PM

3. I was not kidding or being hyperbolic when I said the USA died on the day the Senate voted no

A trial without witnesses?
A trial without an actual defense other than 'so what, he's the president and that makes it legal'?
A trial without any rebuke for clearly uncovered crimes?

A POTUS eviscerating the rule of law at every turn and installing a lap dog AG to cover for him and do his bidding?

This is no longer a representative republic...our votes will not matter, the people COUNTING the votes matters and they are in the tank too. 2016 was NOT legit, nor was it on the level. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin "won" by a total of ~78,000 votes? Bullshit.

This is, was and ever shall be world without end a massive coup. Putin bankrolled it figuring it would prove to be an irritant to Clinton after she won. When it broke the way it did, and she lost and Trump immediately went supine before Putin to avoid being called out by him for anything at anytime, well, the die was cast.

When Mueller allowed Barr's candy-coating of the inquiry to stand without forcibly stating, that no, Trump was NOT innocent and that real crimes WERE committed, it got worse...

When the Senate collapsed into a puddle of worthless goop at Moscow Mitch's feet and gave its fealty to party politics over all other considerations, the union died.

This interval - where the war is already clearly defined, you are either with the rule of law and America the idea or you are a Trump lackey and bootlicker - is just waiting for the shots to be fired and the war to move into a hot phase. The Cold Civil War, that started in 2001 with Florida and has NEVER been resolved since, is about to become Civil War II.

The question to ask yourself is "do I care enough to give my life for liberty and country?" / "Am I willing to fight for the freedoms I was born into or once held?" or "am I going to just drop my head, ignore the truth all around me and then try to bury my uniform after Trump is defeated?" When the disappearances start, they will be cloaked in mystery under the Patriot Act - that excremental 'law' that essentially turned us all into serfs at the behest of an evil or malicious president/executive branch...we are there now.

The time is coming rapidly. I anticipate the first battles will be fought in November when the election is either canceled or exposed to be fraudulent from the voting machines to the vote totals to the Electoral College 'victory' again. When it starts, I know damn well which side I will plant my flag for...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 01:07 PM

5. Well said

I couldn't agree more.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 02:28 PM

7. 💯. Dead with a whimper. Not even a bang. nt

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 01:04 PM

4. My mother and aunt lived through Hitler.

My 92 year old mother and her 85 year old sister told me that they are very frightened by events happening with this administration. They saw this before as young girls growing up in Germany. My mom said that my grandmother was a journalist before her marriage and could see the dark influence Hitler had. My grandfather could not get work because he refused to join the Nazi party. They helped Jewish friends and neighbors, and could not even speak freely in front of the kids because they were concerned one of them would inadvertently say something that would get them in trouble.

I asked my mom once, "Why didn't the people who saw this was wrong, do something?? She said originally he said popular things like he was going to fix the economy which was in shambles after WWI. He was a magnetic personality and a very good speaker. She said that by the time people woke up to what he was doing, it was too late to act. They lived in great fear of the SS.

We need to get this dictator wanna be out of the people's house. Policy matters are secondary in my opinion. I do not want us to end up like my mom and her family, fearful of the authorities in our own country. May the strongest candidate win the nomination. I am voting a STRAIGHT BLUE TICKET in November. This next election is crucial to our democracy.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 02:29 PM

8. And, frankly, most Germans thought the war was going fairly well...

Until late '43 through '44 and into '45.

Then they wondered why they were being bombed.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:14 PM

9. K and R

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:02 PM

10. Also, the Romans thought they were still a Republic under Augustus.

A rubber-stamp Senate and a consul not explicitly calling himself a king did not make a Republic then… or now.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:14 PM

11. There is one huge difference between then and now

It’s social media. In Germany people became afraid and no one spoke up first, though it’s possible many felt the same way. Uncertainty and paranoia were created by the state and Joseph Goebbels used a propaganda machine to keep people in thought control. People felt fearful to express their misgivings so they stayed quiet.

Now everyone has access to similar people via twitter or sites like this one. I don’t know what my neighbors think but I know what my chosen online community thinks. The consensus is we’re outraged and have been from the start. We refuse to normalize the hate and the lies and the trend towards authoritarianism.

We live in very different times and circumstances now. The best thing about living now is we have access to knowledge like never before.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:26 PM

12. Social media would have been Goebels's dream

Social media is being used to distort the truth and amplify propaganda. Social media is making it worse.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:31 PM

13. Kick

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