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Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:09 AM

Post Trump, there must be prosecutions

I like Warren's idea of a special independent task force in the Justice Dept to investigate corruption and obstruction of justice. That includes all those, who refused to answer to a congressional subpoena, Trump himself, and those who interferred in ongoing investigations. It isn't enough to just fire all the Trump appointees. There must be q wealth of documents about Trump's crimes that are as yet undiscovered. And if there is evidence that Trump colluded with Putin to lift sanctions and/or endanger our troops, that's treason.

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Reply Post Trump, there must be prosecutions (Original post)
vlyons Thursday OP
malaise Thursday #1
vlyons Thursday #2
geardaddy Thursday #41
LiberalFighter Friday #58
Ferryboat Thursday #3
vlyons Thursday #7
Canoe52 Thursday #9
pandr32 Thursday #11
beveeheart Thursday #23
joost5 Thursday #24
calimary Thursday #44
Lokee11 Friday #55
MFGsunny Friday #56
Poiuyt Thursday #12
kag Thursday #31
Ferryboat Thursday #35
JHB Thursday #42
gopiscrap 16 hrs ago #65
Nature Man Thursday #13
FiveGoodMen Friday #59
ooky Thursday #14
Perseus Thursday #16
vlyons Thursday #49
KPN Thursday #27
Caliman73 Thursday #33
Traildogbob Thursday #34
jmowreader Thursday #39
uponit7771 Thursday #51
treestar Thursday #53
magicarpet Thursday #4
shockey80 Thursday #5
hangaleft Thursday #50
jr1118x Thursday #6
Perseus Thursday #17
jr1118x Thursday #22
Efilroft Sul Thursday #8
Perseus Thursday #19
Efilroft Sul Thursday #45
johnthewoodworker Thursday #10
Perseus Thursday #20
OliverQ Thursday #15
Aviation Pro Thursday #18
Nasruddin Thursday #21
gibraltar72 Thursday #25
Hermit-The-Prog Thursday #26
Pantagruel Thursday #28
Guilded Lilly Thursday #30
burrowowl Thursday #29
hibbing Thursday #32
matt819 Thursday #36
Dan Thursday #37
Bernardo de La Paz Thursday #38
Mickju Thursday #40
not_the_one Thursday #43
VOX Thursday #46
Arthur_Frain Thursday #47
rufus dog Thursday #48
uponit7771 Thursday #52
Mike Niendorff Friday #54
spanone Friday #57
FiveGoodMen Saturday #60
VOX Saturday #61
The Wizard Saturday #62
The Wizard Saturday #63
ramen Yesterday #64

Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:10 AM

1. Get thee to the greatest page

I expect lots of people to end up in prison - there must be no pardons

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:13 AM

2. There won't be any pardons

and Pence can't be allowed to simply retreat back to retirement. He's in this corruption up to his neck also.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:58 PM

41. He's up to his albino eyebrows in it.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:18 PM

58. Make sure to go after his brother too.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:25 AM

3. While i believe there must be accountability

Political investigations of previous administration's is what 3rd world governments do. Persecutions of political opponents is a bad idea.

Maybe something along the lines of the south African model. Truth and reconciliation council? The truth needs to be exposed in some fashion for the historical record.



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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:34 AM

7. Phooey on that

There were plenty of people convicted from the Nixon administration, including his VP Agnew and his AG John Mitchell. John Dean his top WH lawyer, and Erlichman and Haldeman, his goon fixers. We need to do similar post Trump. This isn't about vengence and pay back. It's about justice and demonstrating to future generations that ours is a nation of laws and equal justice before the law.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:19 AM

9. +1,000,000

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:24 AM

11. Well said

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:47 AM

23. Totally agree with you,

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:50 AM

24. 🔼🔼🔼 Yup

We can call it a "reconciliation hearing" but people need to go to jail for effing with our country for their personal gain.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 01:49 PM

44. Indeed. There HAVE TO BE consequences. That's a MUST.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 09:45 AM

55. Exactly!!!!!!!!

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Response to vlyons (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 09:46 AM

56. Of all recent eras, THIS era in our TIME begs for justice to be done.

As in our past, the moral compass of current and future generations is in our hands.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:27 AM

12. Trump and his fascist cronies must be held accountable

They did it after WWII, though that was different.

Avoid appearance of partisanship with an independent counsel

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:04 PM

31. Not SO different.

So far we haven't seen mass exterminations of people, but we've seen plenty of deaths that can be traced back to this lawless administration. And we've seen even more lives ruined due to incarceration, poverty, homelessness, and just downright despair. So much of these tragedies were completely preventable and, I would argue, caused by criminal behavior on the part of people who have no accountability.

They need to be held accountable for the laws they have broken. I agree it needs to be an independent and apolitical process, but they MUST pay for their crimes.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:18 PM

35. This is the point

Avoid appearance of partisanship. An independent counsel looking into the crimes of this administration is what is needed, with the emphasis on independent.

Need to avoid political parties engaging in tit for tat.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 01:28 PM

42. Convince me they'll cooperate, and I'll consider it.

To have a truth and reconciliation commission worth the name, you need to have people willing to tell the truth and are willing to reconcile.

Do you know when that was the case in successful T&R commissions? When the people who had done terrible things were sweating bullets about the alternatives. That's not going to happen here until people who have committed criminal acts go to jail for a long time.

Probably a lot of them. Certainly enough to penetrate the reflex the Republicans have developed to just brazen it out until the fuss dies down then go back to doing the same things or worse.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 06:27 PM

65. totally agree

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:28 AM

13. What the current administration is doing is what 3rd world governments do

fuck that shit.

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Response to Nature Man (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 04:46 PM

59. Agreed!

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:33 AM

14. We need to go after those who broke specific laws because they could get away

with it while Barr was AG. I don't think there is anything remotely "3rd World" about honest prosecution.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:36 AM

16. No, that is what emboldened republicans, that GW Bush and Chaney got away with murder

They will continue to push the envelope, as this administration is doing. If there was wrongdoing it must be punished, if there was treason then the appropriate punishment must be given.

The Obama "move forward" I feel did more damage than good, it cannot happen again.

That is exactly what trump and thugs are doing while in office, going after their enemies who have done nothing wrong, why should criminals get away with murder? I don't think so, they must all be investigated and given their appropriate punishment to make sure others who may have the same ideas think it twice before engaging in crimes and misdemeanors.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:37 PM

49. And don't forget how Reagan and his goons got away with Iran-Contra

When these crimes are swept under the rug, criminals are only emboldened to stay on their corrupt and immoral path.

Justice is a virtue that goes back to the classic Greeks. Even Aristotle wrote about justice as a virtue.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11466-007-0017-z

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:56 AM

27. Truth and reconciliation!? Lol, if anyone doesn't

know and admit the truth now, they sure in hell aren’t going to from a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” absent a real and evident threat of prosecution and harsh penalties. Which by the way they had in South Africa — because the Afrikaaners were terrified when apartheid collapsed in the face of international economic sanctions fueled by a decade of domestic black revolts. The Afrikaners were terrified about the prospect of reprisal — of course they confessed guilt (truth) and reconciled. Without real revolt and the threat of significant change to or collapse of our current “free market” capitalist system, there will be no reconciliation here. No threat of harsh penalty, no confession of truth, no penance, no reconciliation. No hammer, no impact.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:14 PM

33. There is a big difference between persecution and prosecuting crimes.

A very clear example.

Hillary Clinton's emails and Benghazi v. Trump's current Russia/Ukraine situation.

There were 7 separate investigations into Benghazi and the emails, for which documents and testimony from Hillary Clinton herself was provided. NONE of those investigations discovered anything that was criminally actionable. YET, there appear to be more investigations scheduled by the Senate. Why? No investigation from ANY department has found anything to go after.

Trump's first investigation did not yield clear evidence of a conspiracy to commit a crime, however, there was a great deal of interference with the investigation which concluded with up to 10 instances of obstruction of justice. Several high ranking people or people close to Trump face multiple charges, have been convicted, and are facing sentencing for their crimes. Several people implicated Trump directly in trying to extort Ukraine into interfering in the 2020 election. The entire time this has been investigated Trump has been actively trying to corrupt the investigation and interfere in any way possible.

I agree with the Truth and reconciliation idea, however, Trump continues to deny accountability and interfere in the process of justice. His supporters in government also continue to abuse their power to assist him. There will never be "truth" from them therefore a judicial and prosecutorial route must be taken.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:16 PM

34. Fuck that noise

3rd world Governments must me penalized as 3rd world criminals. These assholes are not just robbing us they are outright dumping carcengins openly on our lives. I lost enough friends and loved ones to cancer to say, just go away and land a cushy Fox News spot, like Oliver et al. These people need locked up. A hell of a lot more than Hillary and Polosi. Their rules!!! Apply them.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:30 PM

39. Trump is operating as if he's a third-world dictator

THere has never been a more corrupt American president than Trump. He has to be punished - not by some meaningless “truth and reconciliation” commission, but by courts and prisons. And all his corrupt appointees, and ESPECIALLY his corrupt family, require punishment.

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Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)


Response to Ferryboat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 07:44 PM

53. If they actually committed crimes

It is not the same thing as that.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:26 AM

4. By the time trDump is done we are going to need a....

Truth and Reconciliation Commission to unscramble the mess Team trDump caused.

And yes there must be heavy sanctions for what they did or the next time the Fascist Rethugs gain power they do the same thing again but worse.

They are writing the book on "How to Decimate And Destroy Democracy" if we do nothing it will become their instruction manuel and road map enabling them to reach that destination.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:31 AM

5. I have posted about this a few times.

When the Democrats take back the White house, the new AG will need a bigger office. The Democratic voters must contact their representatives and the new President and demand retribution and justice. We must not accept our new president saying these words.

We must move forward and bring the country together, we can't focus on the past. BULLSHIT!

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Response to shockey80 (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 05:49 PM

50. Fuckin' A Ditty Bag!

Rather crass, but it best reflects my position on this non-issue.

Any candidate who says “We must move forward” and/or “put the past in the past” or expresses similar sentiments loses all of my respect and does not have my support for the Democratic nomination.

Call me guilty of having a litmus test. Call me a purity test voter. Call me any damned thing you want. But a candidate who refuses to vow, as Elizabeth Warren has, to pursue justice against those who have trampled upon our democracy, does not get my support during the primary season.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 10:34 AM

6. They have stacked the courts

 

With as many Fedal judges the pushed into place I think they have enough layers to protect them for a long time. The courts have been stacked Look at what they have done to the 9th circuit court for example. If we even survive his reign, I dont think the next several generations even have a chance of returning to normal, let alone punishing them. It's so disheartening to see the foundation of our country being demolished every day and knowing they likely will have gotten away with it while good decent people suffer.

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Response to jr1118x (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:38 AM

17. Yes, and they all must be fired and investigated

I am sure they are doing the deeds of the criminal-in-chief.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:45 AM

22. They can only be removed through impeachment

 

As of Nov 2019 he has appointed 158 Federal judges, more than 25% of all judges, is it really feasible to hold that many impeachment hearings and have both House and Senate agree?

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:19 AM

8. The next president must take the bleach to Trump's administration or its stain will never go away.

Investigate. Prosecute. Incarcerate. Make America America Again.

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:40 AM

19. Like Klobucher said, I think it was her, she will walk into the oval office and spray it with clorox

And then they will need to open all the windows to allow the smell to escape and the sun to disinfect.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:01 PM

45. I'm with her on that!

I imagine it would be on par with the Elves cleansing one of Sauron's former lairs.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:22 AM

10. The republicans have worked too hard to steal this country to let some

voters decide who leads. Republicans didn't crap on the constitution just to turn the country back after a four year presidential term. There is still stuff left to steal, so the republicans aren't leaving.

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Response to johnthewoodworker (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:41 AM

20. We must make sure they leave

I talk to everyone I know to make sure they understand they need to vote, not stay at home, and we must do that.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:34 AM

15. I agree. Warren is the only candidate who has flat out

said she will investigate all these fascists. We cannot just move on and ignore what Trump and the GOP have done.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:39 AM

18. Elizabeth Warren would make a helluva AG

So would Kamala Harris, Adam Schiff and Cory Booker.

I have no doubt that Bloomberg has already planned out his cabinet and given top priority to crying Havoc and releasing the justice dogs on the criminals.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:43 AM

21. Judiciary Act of 1789

We've learned a lot since 1789. It's time to completely re-do this. Every bit of it.

This is the act that created the Justice Dept and the federal court system. It's all bad.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:54 AM

25. Anyone who is running for office

as a Dem must pledge this and do it now. This needs to include the enablers.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:55 AM

26. Absolutely! Tired of these shits getting away with it and coming back worse.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 11:59 AM

28. Cart before the horse, lads

need to get back in power FIRST!!

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Response to Pantagruel (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:03 PM

30. Agree, we need to focus heavily on the people getting out to vote against..

The Cretin in massive numbers!
RESIST REVOLT REMOVE

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:01 PM

29. Prosecute!

Remember Barr got Bush Sr off for Iran-Contra war crimes, he needs double sentencing!

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:08 PM

32. Reagn, w, they always always always get away with it n/t

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:21 PM

36. 150% agree

Sure, it will be time to look forward, but we must investigate and prosecute. And the time to design the infrastructure and prioritize investigations is now. I don't know where this would be, but it has to start not. There will be no time to lose once a Democrat is in the WH. Think tank? Bloomberg? A Democratic counterpart to the Lincoln Project? A foundation? I don't know, but it will require funding, and smart people. And it has to be ready to work with whichever Democrat gets the nomination and wins the election.

In the same category of "rapid reaction," the Democrats also need to set up a 50-state infrastructure to monitor and respond to threats and reports of election irregularities, even the bogus ones that will be coming from the trump campaign, e.g., hundreds of buses from Massachusetts.

This will take dedication and funding. Not bullshit politics and theater, but a full-scale "operation." Reports of hundreds of buses? Get people out on the road to verify and then report, within minutes, that it is a lie. Or reports of voter machine weirdness, lawyers and techs on call to move within minutes.

Paranoid? I don't think so.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:25 PM

37. Well, my only desire is that we

Get a Attorney General so vicious that the parents had to feed it through a cage.

I want the next AG to put Trump, his family, and his GOP enablers through the same hell they have put the nation and the world through.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:29 PM

38. Absolutely must be prosecutions for deterrence effect if nothing else. tRump is undettered now. nt

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:51 PM

40. Totally agree!

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 01:49 PM

43. If there are none, then the party is continuing to do what got us here to start with.

At which point, what will be the point?

If it is so the party can just move along, it can do so without me.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:13 PM

46. Agreed. But let's do the post-Trump part first.

That’s where the planning, strategy and energy must be focused.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:42 PM

47. Personally and publicly I agree with you.

However. It’s like a bad Hollywood movie where the bad guy just. never. dies.

And I’ve seen this movie before.

Somehow, the New Democratic regime will never get around to this. Like it or not, at this level they cover for one another all too reliably. I’ve never understood it. I’ve always felt betrayed by it.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 04:53 PM

48. Must

I hate to make it a litmus test but we have to learn our lessons and teach Repubs.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 06:57 PM

52. K&R, any candidate that says "lets move on" can kiss their run goodbye

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:51 AM

54. Absolutely.


Every other Democratic candidate should adopt this same position IMMEDIATELY.

It's THAT important.


MDN

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:19 AM

57. Bu$h & co. started a war with fake WMD'S and paid no price...It can't happen again.

K&R

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 12:57 PM

60. I'm sure we'll look forward

To the next Nazi takeover.

There's precedent.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 01:06 PM

61. For that to happen, one needs a Democratic president, Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.

First things first. Not as exciting as imagining every scumbag Republican criminal getting their due, I know.

I’m kind of superstitious about dancing in the end zone before I have the ball, to use a shopworn sports analogy.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 04:21 PM

62. Enough of this nonsense

of we have to look forward not back. All crimes happen in the past. And this administration and the crime family in charge must be taken to task. If it requires pitchforks torches and rope, so be it.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Sat Feb 15, 2020, 04:30 PM

63. The Romanovs beckon from Hades.

Justice is blind. The Trump criminal cartel has looted the Treasury and kidnapped thousands of children. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Response to vlyons (Original post)

Sun Feb 16, 2020, 12:20 AM

64. Yes. There surely should be. nt

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