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Tue Feb 4, 2020, 05:07 AM

Let's not do this.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

"Shambles?" "Hands an Opening To Trump"? "A Complete Disaster"?

Come on, "liberal" media, get a fucking grip.

Has anyone in America ever heard of gaslighting??

Are media really going do that to Americans, or are they going to just try to do their f'n jobs.

OR could media be all nutty because networks didn't get their immediate answer -- oh noes, what will corporate sponsors say!

A verified correct result, backed by paper counts from the precincts, will be accurate.

The world won't end because we need to wait.

And it might as well be Iowa as any other state.

"End-user" problems. Big deal. Like it didn't happen in FL in 2000.

But media might just lose their fucking minds. Telling us all to lose ours ... oh noes!

Don't believe the hype about a "messed up system."

"End user" problems build end user awareness.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Let's not do this. (Original post)
ancianita Feb 4 OP
Wounded Bear Feb 4 #1
ancianita Feb 4 #2
SKKY Feb 4 #3
ancianita Feb 4 #4
rpannier Feb 4 #6
SKKY Feb 4 #13
John1956PA Feb 4 #16
True Blue American Feb 4 #5
ancianita Feb 4 #8
True Blue American Feb 4 #10
ancianita Feb 4 #21
True Blue American Feb 4 #27
malaise Feb 4 #7
ancianita Feb 4 #9
malaise Feb 4 #12
Bettie Feb 4 #31
malaise Feb 4 #32
murielm99 Feb 4 #11
ancianita Feb 4 #14
reACTIONary Feb 4 #17
True Blue American Feb 4 #28
John1956PA Feb 4 #15
ancianita Feb 4 #20
KPN Feb 4 #24
True Blue American Feb 4 #29
malaise Feb 4 #36
treestar Feb 4 #18
ancianita Feb 4 #19
gab13by13 Feb 4 #22
ancianita Feb 4 #23
KPN Feb 4 #25
voteearlyvoteoften Feb 4 #26
LAS14 Feb 4 #30
Bettie Feb 4 #33
LAS14 Feb 4 #34
Bettie Feb 4 #35
Omaha Steve Feb 4 #37

Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 05:11 AM

1. They could start by not hyping the Iowa caucuses like they're the fucking super bowl...

the endless hype parade is tiresome.

It's a primary, not the final election.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 05:17 AM

2. I haven't read much media hyping, except about mistakes... all the "issues" Democrats have to

"fix," all the responsibility for America's "healing" only Democrats have to worry about.

I never hear a damn thing about any "they" who snigger in the background as we try to engage the country with 20 candidates, issues, reading, learning how this government works, and how corruption doesn't work.

Hyping is what media do. No. It can help in getting voters everywhere caring about voting. It can hurt if the humans trying new stuff can't get it right and perfect on first run.

We can't fall for this "perfect being the enemy of the good" crap that we get dumped on us every damn day over dumb technical crap, and even high court constitutional stuff.

The very people who fall for this are in chomping-at-the-bit horse racey media.

But we shouldn't.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 05:33 AM

3. I seem to recall Republicans having their own issues in Iowa...

...several years back. First, Santorum was declared the winner only to find out a couple of weeks later it was actually Ron Paul who won. Iowa gonna Iowa I guess.

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Response to SKKY (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 05:37 AM

4. Exactly. I don't recall media hyping the stupidity and failure of the whole fucking Republican party

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Response to SKKY (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:11 AM

6. 2012. It was called for rMoney. Recount went to satan-orium

QC Times

In 2012, Iowa Republicans reported late on caucus night that Mitt Romney won a close race over Rick Santorum. After a recount, it was discovered that Santorum had actually beaten Romney.

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Response to rpannier (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:24 AM

13. Yea, that. I knew something was kinda jacked..

...up with it. Although for some reason I feel like Paul was involved/affected. Not sure why his name sticks with me on that.

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Response to SKKY (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:38 AM

16. In June 2012, Ron Paul was declared the winner of the majority of Iowa's Republican delegates.

You are correct. As mentioned in my post below, Ron Paul was eventually awarded the majority of the Republican Iowa delegates.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:07 AM

5. Thank you!

I am really discouraged with what I have been reading here this morning.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:12 AM

8. Don't be. Let's just take all this as a good old hippie lesson: "Don't believe the hype."

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Response to ancianita (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:17 AM

10. I don't!

That is why I am disappointed with the hysteria!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:18 AM

21. Great! We all need to stay out of the weeds of media hysteria. We're Democrats.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:06 AM

27. :)

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:12 AM

7. I only have one question

was this sabotage by the Con's goons or did Dems sabotage themselves?

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:14 AM

9. Neither. Ain't about sabotage. It's about getting an improved system down "perfect" on first run.

It's about being human, and trying to get an honest count in spite of "end user" problems with the app system.

We'll be fine. It's not time to worry yet.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't stay clear, though.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:23 AM

12. Thanks

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:15 AM

31. It was just a technology issue

and too few people working the phone system at first.

The results are there, we're just not going to have them right away.

For people who want hand marked ballots with paper and pencil, get used to a delay, because we won't have instant results. Ever.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:17 AM

32. Thanks

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:18 AM

11. This could turn out to be a good thing.

If it helps us move away from caucuses in all the states, that will be a good thing.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:24 AM

14. Caucuses have their strengths. Paper trail being one of them. I wouldn't yet put all our chips

on anything electronic, based on all the past problems we've had. And those problems still exist. So any other method isn't necessarily a good thing.

I'm sure you're aware of what we've tried.

There's no one solution to creating an honest election across a country this large.

Except an honestly well-monitored paper trail voting system, if we have to choose just one.

Honesty has always been the elephant in the room problem, from paper to electronic systems.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:45 AM

17. Regular old voting, rather than standing around in a gym...

.... doesn't exclude a paper trail. Its a lot easier and more inclusive than than.... whatever it is they do in a caucus.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:07 AM

28. I am all for that!

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:32 AM

15. The media should remind viewers of the failure regarding the 2012 Republican Iowa caucus.

Immediately after the 2012 Republican Iowa caucus, Romney was said to be the winner by 8 votes. However, the certified results issued seventeen days later declared Santorum as the winner. Unfortunately, tallies from eight precincts were lost, causing the true outcome to remain unknown.

From Wikipedia:

On January 20, 2012, Santorum was declared the official winner of the January 3 Iowa caucuses based on the certified results from 1,766 precincts (results from 8 precincts could not be found). Santorum (29,839 votes, 25%) had defeated Romney (29,805, 25%) by 34 votes.


To make matters worse, in June of 2012, the winner of Iowa's Republican delegates eventually went to Ron Paul.

From https://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-wins-iowa-caucuses-2012-6 :

It also gives Iowa its third Republican presidential winner of the 2012 election cycle ó a potentially bad sign for a state that prides itself on its first-in-nation caucus status. The Republican Party descended into chaos after this year's January caucus, which was initially called for Mitt Romney until the state GOP declared Rick Santorum the real winner. The debacle led to the resignation of Iowa's state GOP chair, and Ron Paul's highly-organized army of grassroots supporters stepped in to fill the leadership void.


The media should emphasize that Glitches in Iowa caucuses have beset both parties.

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:07 AM

20. And we need to remind our favorite media to remind all the rest of media about this.

Thanks for this!

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 08:09 AM

24. Stuff like this happens with ballot/vote systems

as well. The only system I have faith in is Oregonís paper mail-in with option of using a secure drop box right up till 8 on on Election Day. It works: paper trail, few irregularities with no major ones that I am aware of in the 12 or 15 years since the mail in ballot system was implemented, and it gets higher voter participation rates generally.

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:10 AM

29. A state that replaced

Tom Harkin with Joni Earnest and has elected Chuck Grassley ley for as long as I can remember should not be first in anything.

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:25 AM

36. Please post this as an OP

and DUers should send it to M$Greedia who appear to have very short memories.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:02 AM

18. Yes, it seems hyperbole

is always the order of the day.

They will only take longer to get the results.

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Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:06 AM

19. In a world of hyperbole, the ordinary honest thing is seen as either foolish or noble.

The good everyday people things are what we must hold to in this election. Trust each other.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:39 AM

22. Let's not do this,

Tell that to Joe Biden. He is adding fuel to the fire.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:42 AM

23. I don't think so. He wants Iowans to explain to the nation. And they will. It will be okay.

If you think he's in for the win, he is. But he's also not going to throw Iowans under the bus over an "end user" problem.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 08:20 AM

25. It's Iowa's primary. I'm okay with whatever the people of Iowa

prefer as far as primary election system goes. Iíd feel the same with any State primary election system unless it was a system intended to suppress participation by certain categories of voters.

I also have strong concerns about Iowa being first in the nation however. Iíve never fully understood that ó and do suspect that itís at least in part driven by media preference. The media loves the yearlong courting of Iowans and New Hampshirites that occurs every 4 years. Frankly, our Presidential election system needs some overall scrutiny and alteration in my opinion. But thatís another topic.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 08:31 AM

26. Right on!

Many volunteers in politics. Few full time jobs. Looks bad but letís move on now.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:10 AM

30. "End user" problems mean bad design of the user interface. Like the Boeing 737 MAX. nt

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:20 AM

33. This will cause zero deaths

only a delay in getting vote counts.

Not even remotely the same thing.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:22 AM

34. I was talking about a programming phenomenon. How could you think I was equating the...

... seriousness of the event????

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 09:24 AM

35. Comparison to the crashing plane

might have had something to do with it....

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Feb 4, 2020, 12:10 PM

37. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

This post belongs in primaries.

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