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Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:24 PM

 

I think the successful installation of the Dershowitz precedent signals the end.

Trump will now be completely unrestrained in his actions because the legal precedent is that a President can do literally anything to insure reelection if he determines that his reelection is in the best interest of the nation. There's no more threat of impeachment. That's game over. I don't mean to suggest that it's not still worth fighting just on principle but I think the outcome of any election involving Trump is now pre-ordained.

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Reply I think the successful installation of the Dershowitz precedent signals the end. (Original post)
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 OP
lame54 Jan 2020 #1
bitterross Jan 2020 #2
Opbrg Jan 2020 #3
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 #6
SledDriver Jan 2020 #4
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 #5
Mister Ed Jan 2020 #7
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 #8
Mister Ed Jan 2020 #9
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 #10
Mister Ed Jan 2020 #13
Still In Wisconsin Feb 2020 #14
Zolorp Jan 2020 #11
Still In Wisconsin Jan 2020 #12

Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:26 PM

1. It was an afterthought...

When they new the fix was in

As long as they were going to vote for his acquittal

They might as well vote for his coronation

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:27 PM

2. Nope, IOKIYAR. It won't be okay for Democrats.

 

They'll flip back and "change their minds" as soon as a Democrat is elected.

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Response to bitterross (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:36 PM

3. A Democrat

will never get elected once we get Emperor Trump. He will never give up his throne after this.

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Response to Opbrg (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:48 PM

6. I think you're right.

 

I think it's over.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:44 PM

4. Assuming there will ever be another election

by that argument in his view a permanent GOP majority is “in the best interest of the nation”, so why bother? Get ready for president Jarvanka...

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Response to SledDriver (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 03:48 PM

5. I think there will still be "elections."

 

They may even allow Democrats to win some seats in order to make it look legit to the rest of the world.

But, I'm not at all confident that a Democrat will ever occupy the White House again. They have effectively been able to stage a coronation of Trump.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 04:45 PM

7. How does the Dersh bullshit carry the force of law?

Last edited Fri Jan 31, 2020, 11:53 PM - Edit history (2)

Could legal experts on DU please explain?

So some asshole stood up in the Senate chamber, flapped his arms, and shouted that a president can do anything at all to get re-elected, as long as he thinks the country's better off with him in office. (And what president doesn't think that?)

Is that really now established law, just because some asshole shouted it in the Senate? Is the Constitution, with its clearly-defined separation of powers, now null and void? Just because someone shouted some bullshit that even he doesn't believe?

What am I missing here? Again, I ask DU'ers with legal expertise to provide their insights. Thank you.

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 05:23 PM

8. I believe it becomes established precedent once the Senate votes to acquit on this basis.

 

In other words, the Dershowitz Precedent becomes accepted interpretation of existing law- meaning in effect that Trump or any other President can from this point forward do anything they want in pursuit of re-election so long as they say that their re-election equates to the national best interest.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 10:05 PM

9. Thank you. Do you know whether the Senate has to state that this is one of their reasons?

Or is it just assumed, without them saying so, that any and all arguments made by the defense are part and parcel of the Senate's decision to acquit, so that all become precedents?

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 11:29 PM

10. My understanding is that it's the latter.

 

It will be generally assumed from this point forward that abuse of power is not possible, on the part of any President, so long as his or her actions are carried out in an attempt to be re-elected. The underlying principle, put forth by Dershowiz that every President believes their election to be in the best interest and therefore any action taken in furtherance of this aim is legal.

Think of it this way: US Special Forces killed Osama Bin Laden on the orders of President Obama in the interest of protecting this nation. Trump could now, by the Dershowitz Precedent, conceivably have the Democratic nominee for President killed on the grounds that his or her election would threaten US security by preventing him (Trump) from remaining as President. Yes, it's that serious.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 11:51 PM

13. And if that seems to conflict with the Constitution...

...then I'm guessing lawsuits are filed by aggrieved parties, and eventually make their way to the Supreme Court - whose Republican majority is as corrupt is the Senate's Republican majority.

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 1, 2020, 12:04 AM

14. That is what I'd expect, yes.

 

Situations exactly like what you're describing (along with overturning Roe) are why they fought so very hard for Kavanaugh.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Original post)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 11:35 PM

11. I'll fight all the way to the bitter end.

 

I am willing to lay down my life if necessary in the cause of restoring the American Republic.

They wanted Civil War. IF Trump goes full dictator, they've got their fucking Civil War.

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Response to Zolorp (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 11:39 PM

12. I think a general strike would be the first action.

 

Let the country grind to a literal halt. Nothing gets Republicans' attention like losing their precious money.

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