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Thu Jan 23, 2020, 01:13 AM

I think Biden should call the R's bluff. He should say he's willing

to do whatever the House Managers want him to do. If the R's will only vote for witnesses if they can get the Bidens, then so be it. Why should anyone be able to resist a Senate subpoena?

But Bolton, Mulvaney, and other House witnesses need to go first -- because that's how trials go. The prosecution puts on its case FIRST.

Then, if Trump thinks the Bidens would help his case (which we know they won't) his lawyers can call them.

The Bidens did nothing wrong and have nothing to hide.

He should cooperate just like Hillary did during the Benghazi hearings. She knew she hadn't done anything wrong, either.

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply I think Biden should call the R's bluff. He should say he's willing (Original post)
pnwmom Jan 23 OP
PSPS Jan 23 #1
pnwmom Jan 23 #2
NCLefty Jan 23 #3
Journeyman Jan 23 #4
RockRaven Jan 23 #5
pnwmom Jan 23 #6
canetoad Jan 23 #7
pnwmom Jan 23 #9
canetoad Jan 23 #11
pnwmom Jan 23 #12
canetoad Jan 23 #13
pnwmom Jan 23 #16
King_Klonopin Jan 23 #8
pnwmom Jan 23 #10
InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 23 #14
Varaddem Jan 23 #15
pnwmom Jan 23 #17
PRETZEL Jan 23 #18

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 01:16 AM

1. Bad idea. He's not part of the case and it would just be fodder for fox news clips.

You've posted your opinion on this numerous times.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 01:18 AM

2. You've posted your opinion on this on the same thread I did. So what? nt

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Response to PSPS (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 01:22 AM

3. Agreed. This will not stop them from acquitting. Don't give them the spotlight for conspiracies.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 01:29 AM

4. Could be he's baiting them. Tell 'em he won't appear to get them to demand he must appear . . .

then lower the hammer that if one witness is called then so must all the rest be called.

Once the Republicans committed to calling Biden they'd be hard pressed to pull away when forced to confront the totality of their request.

Could be . . .

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 02:07 AM

5. Nope. Because the Senate GrOPers have the votes to pull the rug out at any time.

Once there is the tiniest insinuation that Joe or Hunter Biden has agreed to testify -- under ANY set of circumstances -- they will then demand it happen immediately without the agreed upon conditions/trade-offs, and make a royal stink when the Bidens resist/demur.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 02:36 AM

6. The agreement would be for the Bidens to appear after the prosecution sets out its case,

with the prosecution witnesses.

No trial ever has defense witnesses come first, and there's no reason to agree to that.

I don't understand how anyone thinks the Bidens' testimony would help Trump. But Bolton and Mulvaney's testimony would demolish his defense. They don't want to go to jail for him. None of those people do.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 05:16 AM

7. I don't agree

Joe and Hunter Biden are not on trial.

Do you want to push them into a position where they have to prove a negative? ie. that they, themselves were not corrupt?

Can you imagine the manufactured evidence and lies that will be presented against them?

Trump is on trial. Not the Bidens. I can't express this strongly enough: This is a ploy to obfuscate, delay, shift blame and otherwise confuse the main purpose of the impeachment trial. There is no comparison with HRCs hearings

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Response to canetoad (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 05:25 AM

9. Most witnesses aren't on trial. They still have to testify if subpoenaed. Why would Biden

get to ignore a Senate subpoena, if one was issued?

They wouldn't have to prove they weren't corrupt. They didn't do anything, so all they'd have to do is answer questions honestly.

Question to Joe: Did you know about your son's position on the Board of Burisma?

Answer: No.

Question to Hunter: Did you ever tell your dad about working for Burisma?

Answer: No.

Question to Joe: Was any of your work in Ukraine influenced by your son?

Answer: No.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 06:08 AM

11. Logic agrees with what you're saying

But Cippolone, for one, lies though his teeth. Trump's wet dream is to make the trial about the Bidens.

If the questions, the obvious headlines, were as brief as you hoped above, no problem. The issue is the mere perception that the Bidens need to defend themselves.

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Response to canetoad (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 06:13 AM

12. They couldn't begin to make the Bidens look as bad as Trump will if Bolton has to testify

about the "drug deal" and Mulvaney has to explain his comments about quid pro quo.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 06:43 AM

13. Oh yes they could.

The AG is unashamedly on their side. This is the stuff of conspiracy theories but it's real. It's happening.

You gave a response guided by emotion and what you wish to see happen in an equitable world.

Having the Biden's testify would only add fuel to the conspiracy theories. You are living in a dream world if you believe that a couple of one-word answers will resolve the issue.

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Response to canetoad (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 11:20 AM

16. I saw what Hillary accomplished in the Benghazi hearings. Biden is capable of the same. nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 05:22 AM

8. Consider all possible outcomes first...

One outcome is that it is a trap.

If either Biden agrees to take part in this sham, then the Republican clown show
will turn the "Impeachment Trial of President Donald John Trump" into the
"Senate Investigation Hearings of the Crimes (bogus fiction) of Joe Biden."

They are not material to this trial. They are not the focus of any discussion.
They are an irrelevant distraction. If the Bidens participated, it would give
credibility to all of Trumps false accusations.

Bolton is the one who needs to grow a set of balls and testify.

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Response to King_Klonopin (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 05:27 AM

10. When the Senate calls witnesses for hearings, does the witness

get to decline on the basis that it might be a trap? No.

What would allow Biden to do that in this case?

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 07:02 AM

14. Yes, Hillary has shown Joe the way... he should follow her excellent example.

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 07:43 AM

15. If they subpoena the Bidens

Then bring in Kushner and the Trumps.
If they want to turn it into a circus letís bring in the clowns.

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Response to Varaddem (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 11:21 AM

17. Fine with me. nt

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Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Thu Jan 23, 2020, 11:35 AM

18. At this point,

since the amendments for witnesses have been tabled (an as an aside, the R's could have just as easily put an amendment up in the beginning to have them subpoenaed) so any witnesses to be called will have to be redebated and voted on by the Senate.

The obvious argument to be made by the Managers is that neither Hunter or Joe Biden are germane to the Articles of Impeachment. They add nothing other than being the victims of the on going smear campaign by the Republicans.

Trump's team will offer that the Bidens are corrupt and thus need to be subpoenaed and testify. Honestly, if I were a Republican Senator running for re-election in a tight race in a purple state, would you want to have your name associated with voting for a subpoena for them?

In all honesty, if the Republicans really wanted the Bidens to testify and to try and embarass them, they would have done it by now.

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