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Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:14 PM

I have been considering buying a hybrid vehicle, now look what Ohio and other states

are doing. You have to pay a premium price for a hybrid to start with and save $2500 over five years on gas and now you have to pay another $500 in taxes over 5 years. Myself I think it is more the petroleum industry pushing this rather than raising funds for roads. An electric car will cost $1000 more over 5 years.


https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/05/ohio-owners-of-electric-hybrid-cars-say-new-taxes-fees-are-punitive.html

86 replies, 3176 views

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Reply I have been considering buying a hybrid vehicle, now look what Ohio and other states (Original post)
doc03 Jan 11 OP
Sherman A1 Jan 11 #1
Squinch Jan 11 #3
Sherman A1 Jan 11 #6
Squinch Jan 12 #28
Squinch Jan 12 #34
Sherman A1 Jan 12 #42
Squinch Jan 13 #69
lapfog_1 Jan 11 #9
Sherman A1 Jan 12 #25
Newest Reality Jan 13 #56
coti Jan 13 #46
Sherman A1 Jan 13 #64
coti Jan 13 #66
Sherman A1 Jan 13 #68
Kaleva Jan 11 #2
lapfog_1 Jan 11 #12
Kaleva Jan 11 #21
doc03 Jan 11 #13
Kaleva Jan 11 #22
sl8 Jan 12 #35
Kaleva Jan 12 #36
sl8 Jan 12 #43
Kaleva Jan 13 #45
coti Jan 13 #48
sl8 Jan 13 #61
Kaleva Jan 13 #63
sl8 Jan 13 #76
coti Jan 13 #47
Kaleva Jan 13 #53
coti Jan 13 #54
Kaleva Jan 13 #57
Ohiogal Jan 11 #4
msongs Jan 11 #5
Squinch Jan 12 #29
coti Jan 13 #49
SWBTATTReg Jan 13 #77
doc03 Jan 11 #7
Disaffected Jan 11 #8
Salviati Jan 11 #11
Disaffected Jan 11 #15
Salviati Jan 11 #17
jberryhill Jan 11 #19
Disaffected Jan 11 #24
Hortensis Jan 12 #33
GP6971 Jan 11 #18
Kaleva Jan 11 #23
Squinch Jan 12 #30
Kaleva Jan 12 #37
Squinch Jan 13 #55
Kaleva Jan 13 #58
Eyeball_Kid Jan 12 #39
doc03 Jan 12 #44
Kaleva Jan 13 #51
hunter Jan 13 #85
coti Jan 13 #65
doc03 Jan 13 #73
coti Jan 13 #74
MichMan Jan 13 #80
Kaleva Jan 14 #86
PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 13 #78
spanone Jan 11 #10
doc03 Jan 11 #14
Disaffected Jan 11 #16
Demonaut Jan 11 #20
Squinch Jan 12 #31
Eyeball_Kid Jan 12 #40
FarPoint Jan 12 #26
ansible Jan 13 #67
Aussie105 Jan 12 #27
Squinch Jan 12 #32
jberryhill Jan 13 #52
coti Jan 13 #59
Squinch Jan 13 #71
Squinch Jan 13 #72
Kaleva Jan 12 #38
madville Jan 12 #41
coti Jan 13 #50
madville Jan 13 #75
coti Jan 13 #82
VMA131Marine Jan 13 #60
la-trucker Jan 13 #62
Squinch Jan 13 #70
MichMan Jan 13 #79
CanonRay Jan 13 #81
coti Jan 13 #83
Enoki33 Jan 13 #84

Response to doc03 (Original post)


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:22 PM

3. But at the same time, as the world burns down around us, it behooves us to encourage as many

people as possible to go with hybrids or electrics.

On one side we have roads. On the other we have the air you breathe. I get the point of road maintenance, but that somehow needs to be levied without removing the benefit to the consumer of gas-efficient cars.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #3)


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:18 AM

28. Road use tax or toll. And before you tell me its regressive, so is a gas tax.

Only a use tax wouldn't get in the way of one of the few measures we are taking to reduce emissions.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:30 AM

34. PS: If you think about it, petroleum use is responsible for just about every problem we have.

Middle Eastern wars? Caused by petroleum. The corrupt power elite running our country? Financed by petroleum. Putin? Financed by petroleum.

And yes, there is also that little thing about CO2 levels rising to levels that will soon be incompatible with life, and the burning of the eart.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #34)


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:18 PM

69. As I said above, road use tax or toll. Or, as said below, simply increase the gas tax. That will

discourage planet-raping monster vehicles and encourage fuel efficiency.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:43 PM

9. ALEC... and they are after solar panels for your roof too.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #9)


Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:55 PM

56. Ah! Yes!

The Kochtopous strikes! The tentacles are everywhere. Grab, grab, grab. Insert here, etc.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:39 PM

46. States are giving incentives to buy EV's and more efficient cars, how does it make sense to then

dis-incentivize such purchases in this way? Of COURSE it's the gas corps doing this.

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Response to coti (Reply #46)


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:04 PM

66. Same taxes as always, this isn't an actual problem. nt

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Response to coti (Reply #66)


Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:22 PM

2. You need to figure out what you'll save in Ohio gas tax over 5 years

The gas tax in Ohio is $0.28 a gallon.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:46 PM

12. $700 or less for typical commuters

15K miles per year and 30 mpg.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:47 PM

21. So the fee for the hybrids corresponds to what the average driver pays in gas tax?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:47 PM

13. Ok my current car gets 26 MPG and I drive 12000 miles per year I would pay $129 tax.

If I buy a hybrid that gets 40 MPG and drive 12000 miles a year I would pay $84 a year in tax. That is $45 difference not $100.
By the same reasoning a person that has a gas vehicle that gets 40 MPG rather than 26 MPG he should also pay the same fee.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 10:21 PM

22. It's a wash when you factor in federal tx and average driving distance.

Since you drive less then average and you already have a car that gets good gas mileage.

At 26 mpg and driving 12k a year, you'd burn up 461.5 gallons per year and pay a combined federal and state tax of $216.

At 40 mpg and driving a distance of 12k, you'd burn up 300 gallons per year and pay a combined federal and state tax of $141.

A difference of $75 in tax per year.

"Owners of plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles now have to pay $200 a year in registration fees. Owners of standard hybrids must pay $100."

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/05/ohio-owners-of-electric-hybrid-cars-say-new-taxes-fees-are-punitive.html

If you drove the average commuter distance of 15k a year. it'd be a wash. You'd save about $100 in gas tax but spend $100 on the fee.

Where you come out ahead in buying the hybrid is you'd be spending far less on gas itself because of the difference in mpg.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:48 AM

35. The same bill increases the gas tax to $0.385

According to the article, the bill that sets the new hybrid/electric fees also raises the gas tax.

Comparisons with the new fees should probably be made using new gas tax.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:03 AM

36. I did that and included the federal tax.

By my calculations, the gas tax saved by a hybrid owner driving about 15k a year is close to the same as the fee.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 10:19 AM

43. Are you sure you used the new rate?

Looking at your first example:

At 26 mpg and driving 12k a year, you'd burn up 461.5 gallons per year and pay a combined federal and state tax of $216.


1. $216 ÷ 461.5 galllons ~= $0.468 per gallon, combined state & federal tax

2. $0.468 per gallon - $0.184 federal tax = $0.239 per gallon state tax

$0.239 [actually $0.284] per gallon state tax doesn't quite match either the current ($0.26) state tax or the new state tax ($0.385), but it's much closer to the old one.

What figure were you using for the new combined gasoline tax? I believe it will be $0.569. Applied to 461.5 gallons, that would come out to ~ $262, not $216.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On edit:

Step 2, above, is incorrect. Should be:

2. $0.468 per gallon - $0.184 federal tax = $0.284 per gallon state tax

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Response to sl8 (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:36 PM

45. According to this source, combined fed and state tax is .469 a gallon

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:40 PM

48. None of this matters, the amount saved is the pump price nt

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:30 PM

61. From that link:

From the figures at the top of the top chart:

18.4 cents (Federal)
28.0 cents (Ohio current)
10.5 cents (Ohio increase)
--------------------------------
56.9 cents (combined Federal + Ohio, after the increase takes effect)


Also, note that I made a mistake in my previous post, in step 2. I'll correct that now, but it doesn't affect my point.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:53 PM

63. You are quite right! I didn't carry the 1.

I'm looking at the envelope where I did my calculations and can easily see my mistake.

I shouldn't get involved in these discussions since my wife has to double check my adding for me now when we play Yahtzee.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:33 PM

76. Happens to the best of us. n/t

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:40 PM

47. That would already be accounted for by the gas savings he/she is likely calculating nt

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Response to coti (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:48 PM

53. He'd save more by going with a Civic.

Which is probably cheaper then a hybrid to begin with and one doesn't pay the hybrid fee. The estimated mpg would be about the same . 40 mpg on the highway.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:51 PM

54. Across the board mileage for a non-hypermiled Prius in decent weather is usually well above 50 mpg

Closer to 60mpg with a little effort. A 35mpg Civic doesn't compare.

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Response to coti (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:04 PM

57. He drives just 12k a year

There appears to be a $7k cost difference between a 2020 Prius and a 2020 Civic. With the added cost, there'll be extra tax and probably a greater insurance premium and one will pay more interest on the difference so the monthly payment will be higher.

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/

https://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan

And estimated mileage for the Civic is 38 mpg highway with some owners reporting 40 mpg highway and even higher.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2020_Honda_Civic.shtml

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:24 PM

4. It sucks, but it's only fair

Everyone who uses the roads should contribute

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:27 PM

5. or build your own roads and refuse to pay the state lol nt

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:22 AM

29. Then it should be a road use tax. As our earth burns around us we should not be taxing one of the

few things people are willing to do to reduce emissions.

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:42 PM

49. Except that it completely goes against general liberal public policy

of encouraging efficient vehicle purchases.

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:50 PM

77. Kind of brings back the rationale for road tolls, eh? Just thinking out loud here...until they...

get an equal and fair method of taxing, who knows what they'll settle on.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:35 PM

7. OK using the logic that if you drive a hybrid you use less gas so you need to pay

additional tax every year to keep up the roads. So if I buy a gasoline car lets say a Honda Civic that gets 35 MPG and my neighbor has
a F-150 pickup that gets 15 MPG I would also pay less gas tax. Shouldn't they add additional tax to my Honda Civic? I think this smells like the Koch brothers and ALEC.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:42 PM

8. Road wear & tear

would be roughly proportional to the weight of the vehicle so I have no issue with a F-150 paying more tax than a small car like a Civic.

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Response to Disaffected (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:45 PM

11. It's actually proportional to the fourth power of weight...

... so for the most part large vehicles get off paying far less than they should...

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Response to Salviati (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:56 PM

15. Fourth power?

I agree that it's probably quite a bit greater than proportional but to the 4th power seems high (using that figure, a vehicle twice as heavy would do 16 times the damage). Large vehicles also tend to have longer wheelbases which helps and, more axles + bigger & more tires which also help by distributing the load.

Got a cite on that? I would be interested in reading it.

I agree though that large vehicles don't pay their fair share (although we tend to get some of that back thru reduced trucking costs).

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Response to Disaffected (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:22 PM

17. Yup, learned that back in a history of industrialization class back in college and it's stuck around

I should a have been a bit more clear, the rule I had been referencing is that it's proportional to the fourth power of axle weight, so more axles would tend to reduce the wear...

You can find it on Wikipedia, along with their sourcing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating

and a bit of talk about the determination of this at this page - where it goes into the orgins of this rule in a report put out by the highway engineers at The American Association of State Highway Officials, in the 50's and 60's, where they ran emperical tests to measure road wear.

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2014/fourth-power-rule-road-tax/

The exact conditions and measure of wear can play a big role in that however. A more recent paper, from the Texas Dept of Transportation in 2001, that looks at differences between more flexible and more rigid pavement, as well as different measures of wear - cracking vs. rutting, shows that the exponent can go down for some measures, e.g. the rate of cracking goes like axle weight squared, but rutting like axle weight to the 8th power.

https://ctr.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubs/2122_1.pdf

So, as is to be expected, real world data is messy, but what does seem to hold up is that road wear increases very rapidly with vehicle (axle) weight

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Response to Salviati (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:40 PM

19. Wow

That’s great stuff.

It is refreshing to see an argument supported with data.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 11:05 PM

24. Excellent

Thanks much for giving us that info - learned something I would not have expected.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:30 AM

33. Thanks for the ed, Salviati. Axle weight and wear.

I'll never look at axles quite the same again,or more likely I'll be looking more at axles period.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:34 PM

18. In WA State

hybrid owners are going to have pay an additional $75 to pay for electric charging stations. If they had labeled the additional fee as road fees AND charging stations I wouldn't object. But just to fund charging stations which we don't use really annoys me.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 10:37 PM

23. Why not buy a Honda Civic that gets 35 mpg?

If the best the more expensive hybrid can get is 40 mpg and you only drive 12k a year, I think it'd make more sense for you to buy the Civic. The difference in gas consumption would be about 43 gallons in a year . Looking at gas prices in Ohio, you'd save about $93 a year in cost of gas. Is that amount worth difference in price between the two vehicles?

"While the 2016 Honda Civic is not a hybrid, it brings plenty of frugality to the compact sedan market. Featuring an EPA-estimated 31-city and 43-highway mpg from the optional 1.5L four-cylinder turbocharged engine, the Civic is an impressive car. "

https://www.carmax.com/articles/best-high-mpg-cars#versa18

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:25 AM

30. Have you priced a Honda Civic lately? I did to replace my 2005 Civic. Big sticker shock.

I ended up buying a lightly used hybrid Lexus for much less money.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:07 AM

37. I see 20k for a new Civic

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:52 PM

55. My last one was the stripped down 2005. This time I wanted a sunroof. Add in floor mats,

rear view sensors, taxes and tags and it was over 27k. Instead I got a used Lexus ct200h with only 15000 miles and lots of features. Drove it off the lot for 21k.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:05 PM

58. What year was the Lexus?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:33 AM

39. Talking hybrids is a needed discussion. It's a vital transition to an all-electric future.

FYI, I bought a Prius new in 2007. Right now it has about 220k on the odometer. Every year, I've averaged over 50mpg. In the winter, I get around 50-51. In the warm weather, it's around 52-53. Before retirement, I used the car for itinerant work. I got the state reimbursement rate of over 50 cents per mile. Before the Prius, I drove a Honda Accord (1994) and got a very decent 30mpg. But the difference between the two has saved me thousands of dollars for buying the Prius. My itinerant work before retirement gave me the amount of savings that paid for about a quarter to a third of the cost of the Prius when I bought it. Now, the Prius still runs great and I haven't had to replace the large battery in the back. Like all cars, the Prius has "features" that are minor annoyances, but generally, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 04:13 PM

44. But one point I have tried to make several times

they tax a hybrid or an electric to make up for the gas tax they lose. By the using that same logic they should charge a fee for a fuel efficient gas vehicle also. Why is it they want to single out the hybrid or electric.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:45 PM

51. There are proposals to tax miles driven in a year.

Which is probably the most fair method in raising money to maintain our highway system. The more miles one drives, the more wear they put on the roads so they pay more. It won't matter if the vehicle is a hybrid, all electric, fuel efficient like the Civic of a gas guzzler.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 08:25 PM

85. Relative to the weight of the vehicle, as posted by Salviati above.

That really makes the problem clearer, doesn't it?

Nobody likes those answers.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12863673

Bicycles, bicycles... and sailboats.

Car culture is unsustainable. We ought to be rebuilding our cities such that car ownership is unnecessary, even undesirable.

The problems are political, not technical.

We could ban the manufacture of new fossil fuel vehicles tonight and our economy would not collapse.

We'd figure out how to make it work in less time than it took to knock down Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in World War II, and we'd be saving the world.


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Response to doc03 (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:03 PM

65. The reasoning is all hogwash, doc. Stems from envy. Don't let anyone dissuade you from buying

a fuel-efficient vehicle.

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Response to coti (Reply #65)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:48 PM

73. Well I will buy a conventional gas vehicle then and

won't be punished for buying a fuel efficient vehicle. Why should I pay more for a hybrid that may even get less milage? If they want to charge to repair roads it should be on weight and mileage driven.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:53 PM

74. You're being fed misinformation by people who don't know what they're talking about.

You will definitely benefit from buying a hybrid or EV, no matter how much people try to take those benefits from you.

I'm not sure what models you're looking at, but the Prius is likely the best-engineered car in the world given its purpose (being efficient with gasoline). Incredible car if that's what you're wanting to do. EXTREMELY reliable. Well over 50 mpg (link below) just driving normally. And its total cost of ownership over 5 to 10 years is basically the same or lower than other economical cars.

Check this real-world mileage out for the 2019 Prius:

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius/2019

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Response to coti (Reply #74)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:38 PM

80. I guess if you don't support union workers, a Prius is a good choice

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Response to doc03 (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 14, 2020, 10:04 AM

86. Given how little you drive, I don't see how getting a hybrid makes economic sense.

You can get a conventional car that gets similar gas mileage for less. The money you save in purchase price, sales tax, hybrid fee, insurance and interest can be donated to you favorite environmental groups. You can also donate the money you save from getting better gas mileage.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:05 PM

78. I'd suggest a Honda Fit.

Better mileage than a Civic, and not very expensive. Even brand new.

And I'm the one who expresses astonishment when anyone says a 30k car is cheap. Not for my budget.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:44 PM

10. I bought my Honda Civic Hybrid in 2003. Got a $2000 tax break

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/at-03-44.pdf

IRS TAX TIP 2003-44
CLEAN FUEL TAX DEDUCTION FOR HYBRID VEHICLES

If you are the original owner of a qualifying hybrid vehicle – one that combines an electric motor with a gasoline-powered engine – you may be eligible to claim a one-time tax deduction on your federal income tax return, says the IRS.

There are three Toyotas – the 2001, 2002 and 2003 Prius models – and four Hondas – the 2000, 2001 and 2002 Insight and the 2003 Civic Hybrid – that qualify for this tax deduction.

The maximum allowable deduction amount is $2,000. That amount was set after the Toyota and Honda corporations documented for the IRS the incremental costs of buying their hybrid vehicles. The deduction must be taken for the year in which the vehicle was first used. For a car first used before 2002, a taxpayer may claim the deduction on an amended tax return.

This benefit is taken as an adjustment to income. You do not have to itemize deductions on your tax return to claim it. Include your deduction on line 34 of Form 1040, and identify as “clean fuel.”

Federal tax law allows individuals to claim a deduction for the incremental cost of buying a motor vehicle that is propelled by a clean-burning fuel. Hybrid vehicles obtain greater fuel efficiency and produce fewer emissions than similar vehicles powered solely by conventional gasoline-powered engines.

For more information on the clean fuel deduction, see IRS Publication 535, “Business Expenses” (hybrid vehicles do not have to be owned or used by businesses to qualify for the deduction). This publication is available on the IRS Web site, IRS.gov, or by calling 1-800-TAX-FORM (1-800-829-3676).

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Response to spanone (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:54 PM

14. I was considering a Toyota RAV4 hybrid rather than the gas model. Unless you put lots of

miles on a car and keep them for many years the hybrid cost more I think. Then there is another thing the batteries
will eventually go bad and I hear they are very expensive. The hybrid RAV 4 costs at least $2000 more than the gas one
and you save I think $2000 over 5 years in gas and then add the $500 road tax it doesn't add up to me. Then there is resale value
I wouldn't want to buy a used hybrid taking the chance in buying batteries for $2500.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 08:59 PM

16. Yeah,

I looked at hybrids and didn't see an economic advantage. You do need the high mileage and mainly in the city where regen braking comes into it (which seems to make them pretty popular for taxis).

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Response to doc03 (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 11, 2020, 09:44 PM

20. these batterries have at least eight years of warranty, you also put less co2 in the air

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2020, 11:11 PM - Edit history (1)

so you do it because it's the right thing to do if you can afford it
And they are much more reliable now it's been a few years, long term might be an issue, 7 years and longer but most cars depreciate in reliability

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Response to doc03 (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:27 AM

31. My mechanic tells me that is a scare story and he's seen batteries last 300k miles.

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Response to spanone (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:37 AM

40. I got the tax deduction on my 2007 Prius when I bought it new.

The deduction was one of those diminishing calculations that were used to bring the hybrids into the market. The newer the car, the smaller the deduction that I could claim. Earlier models got a bigger deduction.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:04 AM

26. I bought a Hybrid brand new 2019 just before this law...

I bought a great Ford C-Max that I love...no good deed goes unpunished here in Ohio...republicans bleed you ....

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:05 PM

67. California does the same thing as well

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:11 AM

27. Better idea . . .

Make hybrids cheaper to run, just tax fuel more. Drive the big gas guzzlers off the road, do the world a favour.

The US has cheap gas anyway.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

Check UK, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong.


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Response to Aussie105 (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 08:27 AM

32. This is a MUCH better idea.

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Response to Aussie105 (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:47 PM

52. And once you accomplish that, how do you pay for the roads?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:05 PM

59. Gasoline use is and will be going quite strong for a long time.

When we get to the point where we've put such a significant dent in gas use that gas tax revenue declines (and assuming those taxes ACTUALLY get spent on roads, which they quite often don't- the connection between gas taxes and roads is already very loose), after the huge party we have celebrating saving the world we can talk about using one of many sources of governmental funding to strengthen road infrastructure.

Assuming we don't just raise gas taxes, which would be in line with our general public policy of discouraging use of non-renewable, fossil fuels.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)


Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:28 PM

72. Self deleted. Coti said almost exactly what I did, right down to the big celebration.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:10 AM

38. By my calculations, the money saved by a hybrid owner is about the same as the fee.

At 26 mpg and driving 12k a year, you'd burn up 461.5 gallons per year and pay a combined federal and state tax of $216.

At 40 mpg and driving a distance of 12k, you'd burn up 300 gallons per year and pay a combined federal and state tax of $141.

A difference of $75 in tax per year.

"Owners of plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles now have to pay $200 a year in registration fees. Owners of standard hybrids must pay $100."

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/05/ohio-owners-of-electric-hybrid-cars-say-new-taxes-fees-are-punitive.html

If you drove the average commuter distance of 15k a year. it'd be a wash. You'd save about $100 in gas tax but spend $100 on the fee.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Sun Jan 12, 2020, 10:05 AM

41. They just need to tax per mile driven

Either with a GPS tracker of some kind or annual verification of the odometer. Then all vehicles will pay an equal share for roads and such.

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Response to madville (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 02:43 PM

50. Aren't we supposed to be creating advantages to driving more efficient vehicles?

How does your idea advance our climate change policy?

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Response to coti (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 06:27 PM

75. It makes sure everyone pays their fair share

A rich guy in a $100,000 EV shouldn’t pay zero road taxes while a poor person in a 25 year old Honda Civic still has to pay tax at the pump.

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Response to madville (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:53 PM

82. Why not? Isn't the poor person in the Honda Civic contributing to global warming with their vehicle

in a way the rich guy in the EV isn't? That "poor person" you're referring to is damaging our environment and our children's futures. Why shouldn't the rich guy who's making better ecological decisions get a benefit from that? Why shouldn't ANYONE who's making the right choices benefit from that?

Also, not all EVs are $100,000, or owned by rich people. In fact, most aren't- not even Telsa's (which you apparently want to hate badly). I own an EV with an MSRP of less than $36K, and it cost me way less than that after incentives. There's no reason anyone who can afford to buy a new car shouldn't be able to afford an EV. They are quite accessible to middle class people.

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:18 PM

60. Most road damage is done by heavy trucks and semis

They aren't paying close to their fair share of tax to maintain the road system. An 18,000 lb semi does 410 times as much road damage as an average passenger car and over 1200 times as much damage as a Prius.

https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:33 PM

62. I think there should be an incentive for people

who help the environment

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Response to la-trucker (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 04:22 PM

70. Wouldn't that be nice? And maybe even help us not all fry to death. But no. People need

their enormous planet-raping living rooms on wheels to get them to the grocery store. Because reasons.

And welcome to DU!

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Response to la-trucker (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:36 PM

79. Need sharp increases in gas taxes to discourage people buying trucks and large SUV

that they don't really need. That is what they do in Europe. If we were really serious about reducing fossil fuel usage, we would raise gas taxes by a couple dollars a gallon or more.

As long as gas is under $3 per gallon, people will continue to buy gas guzzlers

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:45 PM

81. Just bought a Prius Prime today.

I was sick of getting 24 mpg.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 07:54 PM

83. Well done. nt

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Response to doc03 (Original post)

Mon Jan 13, 2020, 08:20 PM

84. Problem with a hybrid is that you have two systems to maintain. Maybe

that should also be considered. Personally prefer all electric. Batteries are constantly improving.

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