Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:33 AM
erronis (9,200 posts)
Excellent post by Heather Cox Richardson: Chuck Todd, Turley on impeachment, media / disinformation
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/december-26-2019
Today began and ended with Trump melting down. This morning, after a silence during the holidays, he came out swinging at the Democrats generally, and at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi specifically. Then this evening, apparently against the advice of his lawyer, he retweeted a story that named someone claimed to be the whistleblower, a person who currently has a security detail for protection, not in a foreign war zone, but in our own nation’s capital.
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57 replies, 7892 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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erronis | Dec 2019 | OP |
underpants | Dec 2019 | #1 | |
gratuitous | Dec 2019 | #4 | |
lunatica | Dec 2019 | #51 | |
olegramps | Dec 2019 | #9 | |
Wellstone ruled | Dec 2019 | #38 | |
True Blue American | Dec 2019 | #19 | |
underpants | Dec 2019 | #2 | |
JHB | Dec 2019 | #11 | |
JohnQFunk | Dec 2019 | #20 | |
Perseus | Dec 2019 | #36 | |
Takket | Dec 2019 | #3 | |
maxsolomon | Dec 2019 | #30 | |
malaise | Dec 2019 | #5 | |
MontanaMama | Dec 2019 | #14 | |
malaise | Dec 2019 | #21 | |
MontanaMama | Dec 2019 | #24 | |
rickyhall | Dec 2019 | #27 | |
malaise | Dec 2019 | #42 | |
madaboutharry | Dec 2019 | #6 | |
erronis | Dec 2019 | #22 | |
bucolic_frolic | Dec 2019 | #7 | |
maxsolomon | Dec 2019 | #33 | |
Bernardo de La Paz | Dec 2019 | #8 | |
PatSeg | Dec 2019 | #10 | |
Raven | Dec 2019 | #12 | |
TheRealNorth | Dec 2019 | #39 | |
JHB | Dec 2019 | #13 | |
B Stieg | Dec 2019 | #15 | |
billh58 | Dec 2019 | #16 | |
erronis | Dec 2019 | #23 | |
uponit7771 | Dec 2019 | #37 | |
Kid Berwyn | Dec 2019 | #17 | |
PWPippinesq | Dec 2019 | #18 | |
calimary | Dec 2019 | #49 | |
PWPippinesq | Dec 2019 | #50 | |
calimary | Dec 2019 | #53 | |
DanieRains | Dec 2019 | #25 | |
Fullduplexxx | Dec 2019 | #26 | |
FM123 | Dec 2019 | #28 | |
TheRealNorth | Dec 2019 | #40 | |
FM123 | Dec 2019 | #41 | |
coti | Dec 2019 | #52 | |
barbtries | Dec 2019 | #29 | |
erronis | Dec 2019 | #34 | |
barbtries | Dec 2019 | #35 | |
calimary | Dec 2019 | #48 | |
AllyCat | Dec 2019 | #31 | |
MartyTheGreek | Dec 2019 | #32 | |
certainot | Dec 2019 | #44 | |
MartyTheGreek | Dec 2019 | #54 | |
certainot | Dec 2019 | #55 | |
gilligan | Dec 2019 | #43 | |
Kurt V. | Dec 2019 | #45 | |
DallasNE | Dec 2019 | #46 | |
Joinfortmill | Dec 2019 | #47 | |
ooky | Dec 2019 | #56 | |
erronis | Dec 2019 | #57 |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:44 AM
underpants (159,138 posts)
1. Wow Chuck Todd
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Response to underpants (Reply #1)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:59 AM
gratuitous (72,602 posts)
4. It only took three Republican guests for chucktodd to figure it out?
The man's a certified . . . hmmm. Not "genius." Is there another word? "Cretin"? "Stooge"? "Nincompoop"? It's not like people haven't been screaming at chucktodd in social media for years that he's such a dupe. There has to be a personal effort factor to his stone-brained vacuity.
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Response to gratuitous (Reply #4)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 01:13 PM
lunatica (51,406 posts)
51. I call it cement brained.
But yeah, if they haven’t gotten the message from the viewing public then it’s pretty obvious the viewing public simply doesn’t count for much. That’s what propaganda is.
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Response to underpants (Reply #1)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:00 AM
olegramps (7,938 posts)
9. Todd was chosen to director for the very reason that he can be easily manipulated.
Response to olegramps (Reply #9)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 01:07 PM
Wellstone ruled (34,405 posts)
38. So agree,
a failed Presidential Campaign Manager whom seemed to bullshit his way around DC spewing his both side do it garbage. Happened to have a very brief encounter with this Sucker in 1992 and let's say this,how the hell did he every get his job at NBC.
Nuf said. |
Response to underpants (Reply #1)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:27 AM
True Blue American (12,901 posts)
19. Wow!
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:45 AM
underpants (159,138 posts)
2. Great post. The quote from William F'ing Buckley is telling
Thanks
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Response to underpants (Reply #2)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:10 AM
JHB (32,429 posts)
11. Buckley isn't actually quoted...
...HCR just relates the main thesis of his God and Man at Yale.
The quote that comes just after that, of Ron Suskind quoting a Bush aide, has been attributed to Karl Rove. |
Response to JHB (Reply #11)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:34 AM
JohnQFunk (188 posts)
20. If there were truth in packaging...
Buckley's book would have been titled, "God and Privileged Gin-Soaked Bigots at Yale".
I swear that toward the end of his life he looked self-mummified. |
Response to JHB (Reply #11)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:52 AM
Perseus (4,341 posts)
36. Karl Rove said it in front of a microphone
You are correct, that is Karl Rove.
My take on Karl Rove, and I may be wrong, but I feel he started this wave of republicans ignoring subpoena. He received a subpoena which he immediately ignored, Democrats turned the other way and didn't fight it, now we have republicans ignoring them and none being held accountable. Karl Rove is a monster who should not be enjoying free time, he should be in jail. |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:54 AM
Takket (13,706 posts)
3. Todd is one of the worst offenders but the disease is media wide
The media has been so scared by calls of “bias” when they say a lie is a lie, that they don’t know how to do their job anymore. Combine that with companies like Sinclair buying up local media and turning them into propaganda outlets and it isn’t hard to see where we got lost.
Until they return to actual journalism we are screwed. As the meme says, if someone says it is raining and someone says it is dry, the media shouldn’t be quoting them both, it should be looking out the window and telling us who is saying the truth. |
Response to Takket (Reply #3)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:16 AM
maxsolomon (23,530 posts)
30. I read somewhere recently (a critique of an NYT politics reporter IIRC)
That the media has been "performing fairness" instead of reporting fairly.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 09:03 AM
malaise (223,438 posts)
5. The assault on reason is not new
Ask the Catholic Church about Galileo - my truth or you're going to pay.
Fuck Chuckie Toad- he has long been part of the problem. He has been one of the leading proponents of both-sideism. |
Response to malaise (Reply #5)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:20 AM
MontanaMama (16,073 posts)
14. This.
And I have full confidence that Toad will be back to both-siderism early and often.
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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #14)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:39 AM
malaise (223,438 posts)
21. All the best for the coming decade
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Response to malaise (Reply #21)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:42 AM
MontanaMama (16,073 posts)
24. And to you and yours, malaise.
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Response to malaise (Reply #5)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:01 AM
rickyhall (2,752 posts)
27. The Repugs get a lot from the Old Church...
After the Old Church keep Western Man down for a thousand fucking years, from Christian Rome till Renaissance Italy.
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Response to rickyhall (Reply #27)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 02:24 PM
malaise (223,438 posts)
42. I was even longer but the Renaissance was an important
moment
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 09:04 AM
madaboutharry (35,355 posts)
6. It took well over a year into Trump's presidency for the media to call a lie a lie.
It could be that they have now been pushed too far. Maybe it was Mulvaney telling them to "get over it." Journalist and the media know more than is reported. White House correspondents no doubt have been witness to downright bizarre shit that they can't for a variety of reasons report. They are most likely frightened by the madness and have decided that the ordinary rules of trying to present all sides as equally valid no longer apply.
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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #6)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:40 AM
erronis (9,200 posts)
22. Yeah, but at least Mulvaney spoke some truth. I hear he's on his way out....
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 09:50 AM
bucolic_frolic (22,321 posts)
7. Yes, Trump is not the anomaly but the essence of Conservatism
Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:22 AM - Edit history (1) It's been bubbling up in theory and sound bites over the decades, like they were prepping us for this corruption of reality
And I wonder if some of the origins don't stem from a business orientation. In MBA school we were consistently taught to tweak the numbers, the assumptions, the model or plan to produce profits, the more the better. Facts were fungible. In pursuit of profit, I doubt even the professors realized the methods they were using. To me, that is what is behind conservatism - the pursuit of more money, more private property, amassing wealth for the owners. In regards to Chuck Todd, I'd draw a comparison. Chris Wallace has been throwing facts at Republicans for months in interviews. I really don't watch him enough to know if he's been doing it all along, or when it began. I think he does it in the interest of journalism, a healthy nod to the stature of him and especially his dad. Chuck Todd is late to the game and a dim-witted entry. |
Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #7)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:19 AM
maxsolomon (23,530 posts)
33. I think * is a Con Man who's hijacked Conservatism and the GOP.
He DGAF about its "Principles", whatever those are. He recognizes suckers when he sees them.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 09:52 AM
Bernardo de La Paz (36,847 posts)
8. Recommending the OP. Excellent. Been known to us a long time, but well stated & researched. . . . nt
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:04 AM
PatSeg (35,772 posts)
10. Thanks for posting
An excellent read.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:17 AM
Raven (12,995 posts)
12. If media figures like Todd are going to call these people out, their outlets
are going to have to change their business plans. They want these assholes to come on their shows and if the talking heads start calling them out, they won't come.
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Response to Raven (Reply #12)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 01:32 PM
TheRealNorth (2,823 posts)
39. Less Republicans using the media as a political ad to spew propaganda
...would sound like a "win" to me.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:18 AM
JHB (32,429 posts)
13. What's worse is that this isn't new, it's not something that suddenly sprang up with Trump
We can easily date it back to the 50s and Buckley's crowd, but if you limit it to this brand of blatant brazenness, of blowing off norms and consensus, of just putting out BS and simply ignoring the fuss, it's been Republican standard operating procedure for a quarter century.
Chuck, and nearly all of his colleagues, have ignored this for the entirety of their careers. |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:21 AM
B Stieg (2,410 posts)
15. K&R and Thanks!
A thoughtful and seemingly accurate account.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:21 AM
billh58 (6,323 posts)
16. 11 Warning Signs of Gaslighting
Gaslighting is a manipulation tactic used to gain power. And it works too well.
Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. It works much better than you may think. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. It is done slowly, so the victim doesn't realize how much they've been brainwashed. For example, in the movie Gaslight (1944), a man manipulates his wife to the point where she thinks she is losing her mind. Gaslighters typically use the following techniques: 1. They tell blatant lies. You know it's an outright lie. Yet they are telling you this lie with a straight face. Why are they so blatant? Because they're setting up a precedent. Once they tell you a huge lie, you're not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the goal. 2. They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof. You know they said they would do something; you know you heard it. But they out and out deny it. It makes you start questioning your reality—maybe they never said that thing. And the more they do this, the more you question your reality and start accepting theirs. 3. They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition. They know how important your kids are to you, and they know how important your identity is to you. So those may be one of the first things they attack. If you have kids, they tell you that you should not have had those children. They will tell you'd be a worthy person if only you didn't have a long list of negative traits. They attack the foundation of your being. [Snip] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting As with these, the rest of the techniques fit the Orange Anus-Mouth to a tee. |
Response to billh58 (Reply #16)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:42 AM
erronis (9,200 posts)
23. Thanks for that. I've read 'gaslighting' and thought I understood it. This gives clarity.
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:24 AM
Kid Berwyn (4,826 posts)
17. That's why Chuck shoulda finished college and J-school.
The money really doesn’t matter as much as the truth, when it comes to history and one’s name.
Todd hasn’t read too many books, nor, going by his public utterances, newspapers. Who was it at NBC that said, “Integrity is for paupers!” |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:25 AM
PWPippinesq (163 posts)
18. Chuck Todd has, to me, always been a bit suspect and more than a bit of a disappointment.
If a journalist, he is a poor one. The shift of media coverage cannot come soon enough. Finally, the Liar in Chief is being called out even by one of the meekest moderators in the media.
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Response to PWPippinesq (Reply #18)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 10:50 AM
calimary (61,218 posts)
49. In my "game" of "if I ran MSNBC," he'd be the first one replaced.
I might ask Rachel Maddow to be the new MTP host. Or Joy Reid maybe. Maddow’s show is too important to the prime time lineup to mess with.
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Response to calimary (Reply #49)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 12:57 PM
PWPippinesq (163 posts)
50. I agree.
There are rumors that Chris Hayes might be replaced by Maddow. That makes no sense to me timewise and Chris seems to be doing excellent and innovative programs. Rachel dominates and is vital where she is. Surprising to me, I have come to appreciate Nicole Wallace, even though she no doubt would return to a sane Republican Party and her position as Palin's handler taints her historically.
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Response to PWPippinesq (Reply #50)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 02:47 PM
calimary (61,218 posts)
53. Agreed about Nicolle Wallace. Her show has kinda grown on me.
Same with Maddow. She’s the anchor of MSNBC’s nighttime.
I’d replace Chuck Todd. I’d retire Chris Matthews. Enough with the mangled fast talking and misspeaking and blowing people’s names and spit spew. I think he’s aging out. While Joy Reid languishes on the weekends. Maybe she should switch with Matthews. Ease him out and let him relax during the week, bring him in to schmooze all the way through convention season. And let him fade after the next election or inauguration. I’d keep him on the MSNBC website, though. Maybe give him special op/ed space for a regular written column. He’d sound good in print and make all his good points and they’d be totally coherent because I’d give him a good editor. He could have a closing minute or 90-seconds at the end of “Hardball,” maybe every Friday, kinda like a “David Brinkley’s Journal” kind of thing for a distinguished elder journalistic statesman in career denouement. But we need somebody fresh in that slot. I like Nicolle Wallace but, since she’s a Republican, I still don’t feel like dropping my guard. She may merely be anti-trump, not against the general 13th-century mindset of the GOP. I STILL want a two-hour block on Friday nights after the Brian Williams hour. Two hours of satire and topical comedy, some music, and hosted by John Fugelsang. Do another one Saturday evening. And they both repeat. And I’d bring (or try to bring) Keith Olbermann back on Sunday evenings for two hours of the “Angry Man thing”. And repeat THAT, too. I’d like to develop the whole weekend and get rid of that “Dateline” crap reliving old crimes. |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:43 AM
DanieRains (2,454 posts)
25. Billionaires Own And Control Most Of The Media
They pay Chuck Todd to distract us while they extract more while the planet burns.
4 monster hurricanes in one year, a Gulf of Mexico 5 degrees warmer than normal and ZERO MENTIONS OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON CNN OR MSNBC. There is no gaslighting if they don't broadcast it. Unchallenged lies and propaganda. Dont look at the 50 Trillion the 1% has. Save your pennies while all your bills double. Corporate tax rate 11%. Folks we ain't gonna survive.... |
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:52 AM
Fullduplexxx (3,795 posts)
26. Trump Republicans are using the media to spread propaganda.
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:08 AM
FM123 (8,596 posts)
28. this pretty much sums up the toll it's taking on so many folks out there....
"Americans are so tired from incessant gas lighting we have lost faith that we can still perceive reality"
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Response to FM123 (Reply #28)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 01:37 PM
TheRealNorth (2,823 posts)
40. This is what scares me the most in 2020
There is going to be so much bullshit out there that more voters inclined to support our side are going to get sick of it/frustrated and tune out and not vote.
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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #40)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 01:44 PM
FM123 (8,596 posts)
41. Yes, this battle fatigue is real.
Hopefully, there are enough of us to drive enough of them to go vote (both literally & figuratively).
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Response to FM123 (Reply #41)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 01:21 PM
coti (4,401 posts)
52. It is, and we have to recognize that that's part of what they want. And get tough.
Stop letting them affect how we feel through their disinforming initiative.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:09 AM
barbtries (24,444 posts)
29. one can only hope.
i wonder why she didn't name gw's aide who said we create reality; IIRC it was karl rove.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #29)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:40 AM
erronis (9,200 posts)
34. That quote has been attributed to Rove - a bit belatedly
https://theweek.com/articles/601420/left-vs-realitybased-community
It feels just like yesterday: the crisp fall day in 2004 when I met a friend for lunch who told me about a Ron Suskind article set to appear in the upcoming issue of The New York Times Magazine that included a blockbuster quote from an unnamed source in the Bush administration (later revealed to be Karl Rove). |
Response to erronis (Reply #34)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:50 AM
barbtries (24,444 posts)
35. I must have read the interview whenever it came out.
it gave me a lot of insight into the sociopathic nature of the republican party.
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Response to barbtries (Reply #35)
Sat Dec 28, 2019, 10:44 AM
calimary (61,218 posts)
48. Yep. Rove was also the one whose preferred battle strategy was
to attack an opponent at his strengths, not his weakness.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:18 AM
AllyCat (12,087 posts)
31. I hold out no hope that Todd will stop giving the Nazis a platform
After all, it’s ratings, money, and safety that are possibly at risk.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 11:19 AM
MartyTheGreek (434 posts)
32. Morning Joe was chummy with Trump through May 2016...
It was great for ratings I'm sure. Sometime in June 2016, Morning Joe took a hard left and within weeks, Trump was trashing the show while FOX reality TV, was building Trump up. Now here we are three years later and Trump is trashing FOX for reporting news while Trump Truthers are now encouraged to get their Cult feed from right wing nut web media outlets.
It's way past time for NBC to do their job and report what's really going on. With respect to shows, Rachael Maddow can improve her show by not being so giddy when serious shit is discovered. Lawrence O'Donnell and Brian Williams have been pretty consistent. |
Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #32)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:20 PM
certainot (7,391 posts)
44. media completely misses trump parading limbaugh to intimidate senators with notable timing, while
fox gets fox gets a lot of the 'credit' for getting trump elected and keeping out of jail. fox actually has to pretend to be 'fair and balanced' and they can't go all in with trump
media needs to stop ignoring talk radio but will continue until democrats stop ignoring it trump and limbaugh played golf the day after the mueller report was released, and this weekend they had lunch together. both times to send a message to senators thinking of crossing him. lmbaugh noted on his monday show that pictures of them together only get released if trump wants it to happen. trump does not intimidate anyone with hannity, except maybe lindsey graham fox has basically always been the cartoon cliff notes for the repeated lying and attacks that only radio can do, with limbaugh setting the tone and his dittohead callers keeping the local blowhards in line |
Response to certainot (Reply #44)
Sun Dec 29, 2019, 12:41 PM
MartyTheGreek (434 posts)
54. I like how you covered that...
I think a nice chunk of the Ditto heads are gonna break away driving up the polls for removal in the Senate. I think he'll resign before Bolton or other key witnesses testify.
I remember Rush Limbaugh back in the late 80's during the Iran / Contra illegal gig. At first, Rush appeared to be all about the law and the Constitution when good ole, Ollie North was on the hot seat especially after Fawn Hall shredded all the evidence. It was as if Ollie North, overnight with that pic of him raising his right hand to testify, he transformed from a liar to Patriot getting bullied on. Then he became a Right Wing Nut hero from then on. |
Response to MartyTheGreek (Reply #54)
Sun Dec 29, 2019, 01:06 PM
certainot (7,391 posts)
55. i hope you're right. democracy needs all the help it can get. the iran contra rewrite and
deification of reagan and escape of the bush gang was one of the first big success for rw radio
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 07:34 PM
gilligan (180 posts)
43. Good luck with that.
News media seeing they are being used.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 08:50 PM
Kurt V. (5,624 posts)
45. Recommended.
Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 09:05 PM
DallasNE (6,392 posts)
46. Reagan And Bush Got Away With Iran-Contra
And that has been the operating model for Republicans every since so I do not look for much of anything to change. Think not, just look a the corporate ownership of all of the networks. Anything that happens will be in spite of the media.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:26 PM
Joinfortmill (1,991 posts)
47. Great post
And Todd needs to find a new career, along with a few others I could name.
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Response to erronis (Original post)
Sun Dec 29, 2019, 01:33 PM
ooky (5,412 posts)
56. Kicked
and Recommended, and bookmarked. Great post, thank you. I certainly hope this is embraced by M$M.
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Response to ooky (Reply #56)
Sun Dec 29, 2019, 02:03 PM
erronis (9,200 posts)
57. Thanks. I now get her posts in my inbox daily.
Along with Marcy Wheeler and others, there is some great independent coverage. Not sure how the M$M can monetize this - that's what they want to do after all.
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