Damon Young, [theroot]"I will never forgive white people for Donald Trump"
...Im reminded, again, of exactly who elected him, exactly why he was elected, exactly who still supports him, and exactly who I hold responsible for this happening. And Im reminded, again, that Ill never forgive white people for doing this.
Im aware that this feeling transmutes white Americans into a collective; distilling a demographic of hundreds of millions down to its least desirable parts. While not all white people has become the canonical clichéd reply to this sort of charge, it is also not false. Not all white people voted for Trump. Not all white people support Trump. And sometimes it feels wildly unfair to lump all in with the undesirables. But being fair to white people feels, well, irrational today. It feels dumb to offer a benefit of the doubt while knowing that 54 percent of whites either voted for a racist specifically because hes racist or didnt believe racism mattered enough to lose a vote. It feels stupid when realizing that this majority isnt just the frothing seas of MAGA, but also the white people who seem to be otherwise decent. A morning shift barista at your favorite neighborhood coffee shop. A co-worker you share silly memes and quiche recipes with.
have been racists.
ethnic groups that have been racist. Lotta that stuff going around!
White racists range from knuckle dragging trailer trash to HR staff to judges sitting on the bench.
It's even encoded into the system too.
I'm referring to. Of course we have to meet them first and that can take some time. I agree that "racism" (which as a word makes no sense since there's only one "race", the human race) but we can
fight ethnic/cultural prejudices by not being bigots ourselves and that's a win. That's what I think.
and it smells suspiciously like a copout/victim-blaming, but what you are saying isn't how the real world works.
Keep in mind that only racists get uncomfortable when discussions of racism come up. They will always tell on themselves.
White privilege includes the right to choose the race of the people one "associates" with and to limit one's interactions to primarily other white people. Most black people don't have the option to limit the scope of their associations to other black people.
make the best of the associations I encounter when I'm out in society or even here at DU.
Of people they associate with? Where is this codified? And, where is it codified that white people have the right to make such a demand?
Its not as if they can cut white peoples out of their lives. Were the majority. They can, as the poster is doing, try to raise awareness.
IF 54% of whites still support the White Supremacist in Chief, that means the majority of whites are in fact racist.
I work for a fortune 25 sized company, you wouldn't believe what you hear from people in conference rooms when no minorities are around, it's disgusting and I've spent too many hours in HR's office trying to hold people accountable.
From the relatively innocuous of, "we should get so and so on our team for after work basketball", to the blatantly racist, "He's one of the good ones." I've heard a lot, the thing with me is I do not care who the hell is around, I'm not going to brush it off, I'm going to say something and then I'll take it to HR if I have to.
And the higher you climb the corporate ladder, the worse it gets. And it's gotten worse, not better.
because you know that, regardless of why anyone vote for Trump, if they still support him NOW there is no escaping the fact they are RACIST
Im not being facetious if that needs to be said.
Me either. Nobody is required to agree with or like my viewpoints and I'm not required to care if they do.
It'd be easier to forgive those black men who refused to vote against Trump, or in Georgia who refused to vote against Brian Kemp and for our first female governor, or who slapped me with their bigotry, than it would be to forget they exist.
I withhold belief either way when the individual Damons and their white counterparts, brothers and sisters under the skin, now insist they're not to blame for Trump, but I know what to think when they insist I am.
of white women voted for trump.
But thank God for 35% of whites who represent here.
I have been homeless for the last few years. I am finally getting back into my own place. You would not believe the amount of bigotry displayed by white men who are homeless, and they associate with black men every day, because they are also homeless. What is more, many, if not most of them that are homeless, support Trump. Think he is the greatest President ever. I kid you not.
Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2019, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)
There is power in working together.
I woke up the morning after the 2016 election and thought, "I hate white people."
It probably makes more sense to say I hate white racism, stupidity, or insensitivity. But that morning I hated white people.
And Im white. Thank God I live in a diverse county. I could talk to black people. I realized though that I was burdening them with my s- its not up to black people to treat psychic wounds of white people.
I live in a very liberal area. The only Republicans I know are disgusted by Trump. Ironically, the only person I know who voted for him is AA. She did it because she hates the Clintons. I haven't spoken to her about it.
You're so right about not burdening AA people with our sadness, but I do say or do something if I hear or see racism.
I do know a few senior citizens who voted for Chump, and most of them really hate him now. We need to keep in mind that the largest problem in the USA is all the people who DIDN'T BOTHER to vote at all. Those of us who did vote in 2016 were split almost evenly 50/50. Those who didn't vote could have swung the election to Hillary if only they'd made an effort - including the Bernie-Bros who stayed home and pouted. It makes me sick to think about it.
I keep posting this cartoon because it needs to be pounded home.
Oakland here. Barbara Lee country.
With all the voter suppression, we need to get everyone out.
My whole body went numb, and my view of my country people changed forever.
I knew it would be horrible and knew it would be even more horrid than people expected, but it's even worse than I imagined.
If he tried to weaponized the DOJ. Who knew Jeff fucking Sessions would be one of those who refused to carry out crimes for trump. There are currently no such people anywhere in trumps atmosphere. Im truly worried.
I assumed the Republicans would cravenly and wholeheartedly support him until they got one or two Supreme Court appointments, the tax cuts and a few other things they wanted and then they would start to box him in. I was wrong to think they had that kind of backbone and forethought and to not assume Frankenstein's monster would take full control of his creator.
Get them registered and get them active so we can stop blaming others...
WHY? Because, WHEN DEMOCRATS VOTE, WE WIN. There are move of us than them.
nothing to do with electing Donald Trump. So no. Uh uh. Sorry, not accepting even an iota of responsibility for that one.
And PS: great way to divide Democrats.
This is the same type of shit the Russian trolls would throw on Facebook.
To collectively judge white people for Donald Trump is the same racist thinking that leads white bigots to judge all minorities as criminals because of their higher incarceration rates.
Just stop, because I immediately suspect Russian troll when you try to insult between 30-40% of the Democratic electorate (And an even higher percentage of the electorate in the midwestern swing states that Dems need to win).
Was amplifying the fringe on social media. In 2016, I was seeing posts of fringe members of BLM being amplified as the political stance of Hillary Clinton and all Democrats.
To be fair, those fringe posts could have been Russian trolls.
I will never forgive anyone who voted for tRump and I don't give a damn what shade they come in.
In my opinion, Mr. Young's opinion about ALL white people is the kind of thing that will help Donald Trump win re-election in 2020. Who will Mr. Young blame then? Still ALL white people, I'm sure. Very smart indeed.
Intentionally divisive rhetoric is used online to divide Democrats. Please show me where in the Democratic Party platform the "I cannot forgive all white people" would be condoned. I'll wait.
I know I do. You probably do, too. And people express such opinions on this board all the time.
Maybe instead of criticizing and judging his feelings and lecturing him about it what he should and shouldn't say about them, you could pay attention to what he's saying and try to understand where he's coming from. His point of view is not unusual and it's not unwarranted.
I mean, this is a message board about the Democratic party, and my original post was framed within that context. This type of divisiveness will not help defeat Donald Trump in 2020. I stand by my post 100%.
But your concern is noted.
And by the way, "divisiveness" is a two-way street. Telling an African-American he shouldn't state his opinion because it's "divisive" is really saying that opinions and feelings of white people are the norm and black people should either agree or be quiet about it or else WE are the problem. It could just as easily be argued that the divisiveness is not coming from the black person expressing an opinion but from white people telling him to be quiet and dismissing that opinion as not worth considering.
LOL. Ok. I guess that means that African-Americans have the right to say anything they want without anybody being able to hold a contrary opinion about their statement. And I definitely hold a contrary view of his statement, because it's illogical and divisive, and more importantly for the purposes of this message board, very bad for the Democratic party. But, I'm done now -- have a happy holidays!
because it's "divisive."
If not then how is it divisive?
You are suggesting that White people will actually vote for Donald Trump because a Black man said that White people are to blame for him in the first place?
That doesn't sound logical at all.
Also, White people are reacting to this statement and I find it interesting because that is how women and minorities have been treated throughout American history. White people have the luxury of representing only themselves while women and minorities represent their cohorts.
That is something to think about. Even if you as an individual don't do that or think that way, it is still pervasive and what women and people of color have to deal with daily.
If they didn't consider them divisive?
Racism is real and Russia will try to use that for active measures.
...possibly to the point they would pout and stay home?
Race and racism is a sensitive topic and one in which the White majority that holds most of the economic and social power has not dealt with on any deep level. Those unresolved issues can be used to drive wedges between coalitions of people who have certain common aims but deep seated differences. When you grow up being told that you are "other" that you and people like you are inferior and have less power just because of the color of your skin, your gender, or your surname, you start to understand that the system, which is made up of the choices of those with more power, is unfair. You want to demand justice but you are told to wait, and wait, and wait until the time is right, but it is rarely ever right. Some people become upset and disenchanted with the way things are.
Exploiting differences is effective if the group in power wants to plug their ears and ignore the valid criticism. We all know that Trump is a racist, sexist, xenophobe and maybe voting against that maybe is enough to vote against, the problem is that people want something to vote for as well.
It is difficult to accept blanket statements about a group of diverse people. Like I said in my response, this is something that women and people of color have had to deal with all of our lives. If it feels divisive to you right now, how do you think it feels to people who have been dealing with it all of their lives?
Okay. I answered your question. Are you going to answer the questions I asked? If not then it isn't worth continuing this discussion.
This sounds like the kind of stuff Obama was talking about here:
unless all you want is to vent your anger and feel smug about "being right". That's fine, but, as Barack Obama said "That's not activism"
he was and they were fine with that. It was a sexist act too.
I've yet to hear one explanation for that from the "All Trump voters are racists" crowd, and no, I don't believe anything CLOSE to 8 million racists would vote for a Black man for President.
Somehow all that racism Trump spewed on a daily basis escaped their notice?
And, given that they MUST have known that trump was an avowed racist, what is YOUR preferred term for a person who knowingly votes to make an avowed racist the leader of the free world?
Do you really believe that 8 million racists would vote a black man into the highest office in the land?
to perform the blatantly racist act of making an avowed racist the President. They performed a racist act. Therefore they are, by definition, racist. So yes, I do believe that 8 million people who voted for Obama are racists.
So now you answer MY question: what is YOUR term for people who choose to make an avowed racist the President of your country?
How would you explain the 13 Percent of Black men and 38 percent of Hispanics performing a "racist act" in voting for "an avowed.racist" ?
Consider me apprised of your opinion.
And why did you put "an avowed racist" in quotes? You don't believe trump is racist?
who voted for Trump are themselves racist along with the 8 million who voted for Obama just 4 years before -- Consider me apprised of your opinion as well.
*I put "an avowed racist" in quotes as an indication that those were your words.
By virtue of their being women?
At very least, I'd imagine sexism to not be at the forefront of their concerns.
A few, maybe, but nothing close to 8 million.
You don't have to be a member of the Klan to be racist. How naive to believe a racist wouldn't vote for a black candidate given specific situations.
Sorry, I'd call the answer to that self-explanatory, and the question itself "naive".
I had to put it down because a lot of their reasons for jumping ship to Trump were racist reasons.
This is an except from the book.
I haven't said too much about this election since the start...but this is how I feel...I'm noticing that a lot of you aren't graciously accepting the fact your candidate lost. In fact you seem to be saying hateful things about those of us who voted for Trump. Some of you are apparently "triggered" because you are posting how "sick" you feel about the results.
How did this happen, you ask?
You created "us" when you attacked our freedom of speech.
You created "us" when you attacked our right to bear arms.
You created "us" when you attacked our Christian beliefs.
You created "us" when you constantly referred to us a racists
You created "us" when you constantly called us xenophobic
It keeps going from there.
Way to prove they are not racist & xenophobic by voting for Trump.
Like I said they jumped ship and a lot of those was racial reasons among so many other reasons related to their culture wars.
They are more upset about someone kneeling than they are upset about law enforcement or Zimmerman murdering black people.
about one county in the entire country.
Again, there's no way that's determinative of the motives of 8 million throughout the nation.
Among all their other right wing culture war reasons.
I can't copy & paste a whole book.
one county, because if you know anything about statistics, you know your "sample" is too small to prove anything but confirmation bias.
Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:32 PM - Edit history (3)
He actually talked people in that county. Same way Farenheit 11/9 explains why there was huge turnout gaps in Flint.
After learning that Donald Trump had been elected president, some folks cried. Sought refuge in the Bible. Comforted frightened children. Or steeled themselves for life under a president who has retweeted white supremacists, promised to increase stop-and-frisk policing in poor black neighborhoods, falsely connected Mexican immigrants to crime, and launched his political brand by attacking the legitimacy of the first black presidents birth certificate. Plenty of white Hillary Clinton supporters also felt strong emotions after Trumps victory. But his track record on race seemed to make his triumph cut deeper and feel more personal to many African-Americans.
One sentiment rang loudest in many African-American hearts and minds: The election shows where we really stand. Now the truth is plain to see, many said the truth about how an uncomfortable percentage of white people view the concerns and lives of their black fellow citizens.
Transparency is the order of the day. Now we see what was hidden, said Melvin Steals, a retired teacher and principal who lives in the western Pennsylvania town of Baden. Fifty-seven percent of his county, a mix of rural areas and hollowed-out towns, voted for Trump.
Its like the era after Reconstruction all over again, when they wanted to eradicate all of the gains made by blacks after the Civil War, Steals said. After the war that ended slavery, an activist federal government helped the Souths newly freed African-Americans gain a toehold in society and elected offices before a racist backlash firmly restored white supremacy.
With the combination of Trump's own rhetoric & policies, the fact white people including 52% of white women voted for Trump, the rhetoric from conservatives, so many other things I can conclude a lot of the reasons why someone would vote for racist Trump is because they are racist.
A new study reveals the real reason Obama voters switched to Trump
Hint: It has to do with race.
One of the most puzzling elements of the 2016 election, at least for a lot of Americans, was the millions of voters who switched from voting for Barack Obama in 2012 to Donald Trump in 2016. Somewhere between 6.7 million and 9.2 million Americans switched this way; given that the 2016 election was decided by 40,000 votes, its fair to say that Obama-Trump switchers were one of the key reasons that Hillary Clinton lost.
The existence of those voters has served as evidence that the most plausible explanation for what happened in 2016 that Trumps campaign tapped into the racism of white Americans to win pivotal states is wrong. How could white Americans who voted for a black president in the past be racist, or so the thinking goes.
Clinton suffered her biggest losses in the places where Obama was strongest among white voters. Its not a simple racism story, the New York Timess Nate Cohn wrote on the night of the election. This typically segues into an argument that Trump won by tapping into economic, rather than racial, anxiety anger about trade and the decline of manufacturing, or the fallout from the 2008 Great Recession.
A new study shows that this response isnt as powerful as it may seem. The study, from three political scientists from around the country, takes a statistical look at a large sample of Obama-Trump switchers. It finds that these voters tended to score highly on measures of racial hostility and xenophobia and were not especially likely to be suffering economically.
Who could have possibly guessed racism or xenophobia were why they switched to Trump?
but no SINGLE study of a SINGLE county can represent Eight Million people across a diverse geographic area. End of Story.
Second, class was largely irrelevant in switching to Trump. Keeping racial attitudes constant, white working-class voters were not more likely to switch to Trump. The white working-class voters who did switch tended to score about as highly on measures of racial conservatism and anti-immigrant attitudes as wealthier switchers.
Third, the correlations between measures of economic stress and vote switching were either weak or non-existent. Theres just little evidence supporting the economic anxiety or economic populism explanations for the Trump surge.
For another, voting for Obama once or even twice doesnt automatically mean that someone is not prejudiced against black people or immigrants. Its possible to support Obama in particular while maintaining overall anti-black or anti-immigrant attitudes. In those cases, some other factor, like the Iraq War catastrophe or financial collapse, may have predominated over white voters racial hang-ups in the 2008 and 2012 election.
Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2019, 07:19 PM - Edit history (2)
I don't think so, and though the study you use claims it's "possible" to have voted for Obama and still be prejudiced against black people, It doesn't find it "likely" -- Anything is "possible", so no, I don't buy the meme that White Obama/ Trump voters were primarily motivated by race, or even immigration, which, in itself, is not always about race.
In addition, you're study's examination of Obama- Clinton switchers seems flawed in it's failure to examine the issue of Misogyny -- a rather glaring omission, all things considered.
Also, remember that racism isn't just about black people - you can be racist against Hispanics and Arabs too, and Trump's rhetoric is about them a lot.
and, please, unlike yourself, I'm a fourth generation American old enough to recall the original March on Washington, not to mention the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr...I need no "lessons" from you on America and her social issues.
It has occured to be that this species has a general tendency towards xenophobia and that degrades, (or intensifies) as many forms of prejudice both within various groups and between them, often with negative results.
Perhaps it is the legacy of a tribal sense of fear after experiencing dangerous attacks by other tribes, but it translates as, "You are NOT like US!" as the general impulse and continues, often abated due to identity issues, from there.
The reason I bring this to light is that, often, when groups can agree on a common factor, (like basic xenophobia, acute or mild) and even see it within their own subgroups or "tribes" that can lead to a more agreeable resolution of the issues expressed at a lower, logical level of abstraction.
Building any number if narratives around Trump is easy. Nothing new here. Beating a dead horse and all.
Just as hes the pinnacle of Republican philosophy.
I might agree with your second statement but Trump is far too stupid and incompetent for the first.He certainly wouldn't be getting impeached in his first term if he were some "Pinnacle of Anything" power structure.
Whiteness is basically an inbred power structure. Bound to have genetic like flaws. Hes what you get with imbalances based on one group being seen as superior than others. The stupidity and incompetence have the the support of millions of people. And if that isnt a sad fact I dont know what is
Whiteness is a power structure in majority white countries ONLY, and
even in those, leaves a huge number off the '
I mean, whiteness doesnt begin and end in the west. At any rate its a long conversation with a lotta history
China* and Japan are two powerful Non-White counries that have never been colonized.
The story of how countries around the developed is a long and complicated one. One book that explains a lot, imo, is "Guns. Germs and Steel". I recommend it highly.
" Minus the relatively infintesimal Hong Kong
virtually all his success in life he owes to the whiteness of his skin and other ways in which he's on the top of a social hierarchy based on factors and circumstances he was born with or born into.
anyone else who behaved like he did would get fired, beaten up, beaten down, etc.
he only gets away with it because he's rich and massively privileged.
in a way, he's the perfect symbol of white supremacy because without the artificial power structure deeming "white" superior to "other", he'd be *nothing*. no debate about, oh, no, maybe he got where he is based on talent. nope. everything he does and every way he does it would fail miserably if he couldn't check all those privilege boxes.
I do understand that white folks of good intent get uncomfortable when the term white people is used, so I tend to use the power structure of whiteness, which is actually well documented. Actually first ran into in a sociology course a long time ago.
NOT on "the whiteness of his skin", but the green-ness of
of his money.
how long Barack Obama would have got away with half the shit this motherfucker has gotten away with?
They impeached him for nothing CLOSE to what Trump's gotten away with.
But my point is that he didn't earn any of it. He was born into money, just as he was born into whiteness.
It's not a question of which characteristic benefits him the most. The point is that all the characteristics he has going for him are based on the social hierarchy. Outsized wealth is one of those unearned characteristics.
He's rich *and* white *and* male *and* straight *and* Christian (socially if not spiritually)
Beyond that he's got *nothing*. It's not like he has a talent and just happened to be rich and white and so on. He has no talent. Even the talents he claims to have (great negotiator for his own multimillion dollar private real estate business) are based hugely on privilege.
In a society where everyone was judged on merit he'd be toast.
And I don't forgive any white people that try to tell me I should understand those white people. I also don't forgive the ones that let this happen by not telling uncle Billy and aunt Sally to shut the duck up. Additionally I don't forgive the "but they are good neighbors, friends, whatever they are TO YOU subset of white people.
And for bonus time I don't trust any idiot was brown people that voted for that momo.
Double plus good bonus time non trust for the white people that use the argument I had to attach the bonus time rider for.
Lastly if you are none of the above you're alright. You haven't directly or indirectly supported people who would have no problem with me being purged.
as I shake my head in disbelief daily.
I'll never fucking forgive them for what they've done to our country.
is this Young asshole doing anything about that, or spending his precious time busting on white people? Less online "activism" like Obama suggested and more getting out in the real world. Making sure people are actually registered to vote in November (and with appropriate ID where required) would be a good start...
And is Young equally as angry at those who sat out and gave us Trump? AAs in the Philly area didn't turn out for Hillary like they did for Obama and look where that got us -- prime Pennsylvania electoral votes to Fat Nixon.
These garbage pieces do not help.
he called out left wing users but he would have been better off calling out alt right trolls who got their start with gamergate. That is bigger problem IMO so I disagreed with Obama when he said it. We all have a right to share our opinion including Young as well as yourself.
Including whites. Not only does American democracy need to be saved from the whites who voted for Trump, but they obviously need to be saved from themselves.
The whites in my world who voted for Trump are educated and doing well financially. That you think they need to be 'saved from themselves" is hilarious. But, sure, try that approach in 2020 and see how many votes you get for the Democratic candidate.
the AA community never bothered to vote at all...They had the lowest
turnout for a presidential election in many years.
The exit poll: https://edition.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls
Whites were 71% of the voters, and voted 37% Clinton, 57% Trump. So that's 26.27% of the total votes and 40.47% respectively.
"White born-again or evangelical Christians" were 26% of the vote, and voted 16% Clinton, 80% Trump. That's 4.16% and 20.8%.
Therefore, the white vote that was not 'born again or evangelical Christian' was 26.27-4.16=22.11% for Clinton, and 40.47-20.8=19.67% for Trump.
about the editor from Christianity Today calling for his impeachment. IMPOTUS knows he's toast without white evangelicals and I hope like hell that between now and November 2020 more and more abandon ship.
it doesn't lead us in a very positive direction. Why you posted it, is beyond me.