HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Aviation enthusiasts; Cu...

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 10:59 PM

Aviation enthusiasts; Curious where all the 737 Max's are parked? (Pics)

I've known that Boeing has used Grant County International Airport in Moses Lake, WA as a transition and training airport for years. They can fly there from either of the big plants in Puget Sound in short order and the airspace in that area is apparently fairly free of traffic.

So I was curious if there were any photos of the grounded 737's parked there. I know they were storing them at the plant in Renton, as well as Boeing Field in Seattle and Paine Field in Everett, but there are a shitload of them grounded (387 that were in operation worldwide and almost 500 total are grounded which includes production up to the halt announced yesterday) so I looked for shots of them elsewhere.

I wasn't disappointed.

Moses Lake. This is a former Air Force Base (Larson AFB until 1966) and for those unfamiliar, this feature is a "Christmas Tree" which is a ready alert staging area for bombers that can be found at most US Air bases that had B-52's and other strategic bombers on constant alert. I count 66 aircraft in this photo;



Here's the Christmas Tree at Barksdale AFB in Louisiana with B-52's at the ready, just to show the original purpose of that staging complex;


Anyway...another shot of the aircraft stored at Moses lake:



This is a shot of Boeing Field, south of downtown Seattle. Wa. They have so many there that they have taken over a portion of an automobile parking lot.






Another group of Max's, these painted in Southwest livery, at the Southern California Logistics Airport in Victorville, CA.



Here's a few at the Renton, WA assembly plant still wearing the green protective lacquer coating applied for the assembly process.



A Google image search of "Stored 737 Max" will give dozens more shots. This represents over 60 billion dollars in stationary inventory, not to mention the lost revenue for all the operators worldwide. It seems to me this episode is unprecedented in the history of aviation, with so many grounded going on 10 months now and no end in sight.

Amazingly, Boeing stock has not plummeted, trading in the $330 range. It did drop ten bucks a share on Monday on the news of the production shutdown.

30 replies, 3008 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Aviation enthusiasts; Curious where all the 737 Max's are parked? (Pics) (Original post)
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 OP
msongs Dec 2019 #1
cwydro Dec 2019 #20
Gumboot Dec 2019 #2
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #4
Blue_true Dec 2019 #3
lordsummerisle Dec 2019 #5
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #6
lordsummerisle Dec 2019 #7
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #10
rickford66 Dec 2019 #12
bluecollar2 Dec 2019 #14
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #18
bluecollar2 Dec 2019 #23
KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2019 #16
htuttle Dec 2019 #8
underpants Dec 2019 #9
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #11
LineLineLineNew Reply !
FiveGoodMen Dec 2019 #27
bluecollar2 Dec 2019 #15
Historic NY Dec 2019 #13
maxsolomon Dec 2019 #28
Generic Other Dec 2019 #17
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #19
5X Dec 2019 #26
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #30
brooklynite Dec 2019 #21
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2019 #24
Johnny2X2X Dec 2019 #22
jeffreyi Dec 2019 #25
hunter Dec 2019 #29

Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:16 PM

1. one could house a bunch of homeless ppl in those and boeing could get a huge writeoff nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 10:11 AM

20. I don't imagine airline bathrooms would be up to that kind of demand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:28 PM

2. I do worry about the ones parked at Victorville, CA.

They've been baking in the brutal desert heat for most of this year, and you have to wonder what condition the hydraulics, electronics, and other control systems are in.

Who would fly on these now?

I hope Southwest still has the warranties in a file cabinet somewhere.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gumboot (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

4. Victorville is one of several desert storage facilities and has dozens of other aircraft there.

The airport at Mojave, across the Antelope Valley has quite a few aircraft stored, as well as Goodyear, AZ and Pinal Airpark, north of Tucson. Long term storage in a desert climate is preferable because corrosion is kept to a minimum. The people who prepare these aircraft for this situation take the needed precautions. Don't forget that Davis Monthan - the US Military "Boneyard" is in Tucson as well, and they often bring aircraft back into service that have been stored for years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:33 PM

3. This situation is an unmitigated disaster, brought about by greed and ambition.

Some on the rise VP chose to ignore the issues that Engineering raised. He likely got a big promotion and raise for pushing the design out into production, now he has no job and his name will live in infamy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:37 PM

5. So there is no maintenance done to them whatsoever

once they are parked like this? They aren't started up and taxied down the runway, no cursory checkout?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:42 PM

6. What's to maintain?

I am by no means an A & P Mechanic, so I'll leave the specifics to those more qualified, but my understanding is that outside of a few steps in preparation, there isn't much to do to them once they are parked.

With relatively little effort, they would all start and operate properly after months of sitting, just like your car would if you parked it for ten months or a year.

The primary thing these planes are waiting for is essentially a software fix that has to be approved by not just the FAA, but all the various similar organizations worldwide. Once that happens, they will get delivered to their customers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:51 PM

7. My car probably wouldn't start after being left for a year

so what about battery maintenance?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 12:01 AM

10. Sure it would....

If you just put a new battery in it!

While airliners certainly do have batteries, the engines are started using power generated by an "APU" (Auxilliary Power Unit), however most will use a ground cart to assist in starting if they are totally cold.

Again, I'm not an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic, so I don't profess to have all the answers, but I don't think there are too many items needed to check off before one of those will be able to take to the skies again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:10 AM

12. You're right. The APU would have its own battery which could be dead.

The ground cart would supply electrical power as needed and pneumatics to spin up the first engine. The next engine could be started from the first and so on such as 747s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:58 AM

14. The aircraft are placed in a " preservation status"

Last edited Wed Dec 18, 2019, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

As a former A&P mechanic and Quality Control Inspector I have some experience with this process.

The aircraft are parked and "pickled" meaning that engine inlets and exhausts are plugged. Pitot covers are installed, static ports sealed or covered. Doors are taped shut, windows covered and shaded lowered.

Water is removed from water tanks, toilet tanks are drained, all galleys cleaned and shut down.

Aircraft batteries are disconnected.

All engine cowlings are taped shut to ensure dust and grit and moisture entrapment is kept to a minimum.

If specified desiccant bags are placed in appropriate locations.

Tires and brakes are covered with protective e materials.

Fuel is offloaded and only a "ramp load" is left onboard.

Before the aircraft is picked it is customary to service all engine fluids and hydraulic fluids to specified levels.

Once the aircraft has been pickled it is left alone however even in a stored state routine maintenance takes place.

Typically the maintenance consists of checking tire pressures, walk around etc. Depending on the pickle program, there may be periodic startups of the APU to ensure all the batteries maintain a minimum charge etc..

One of the more mundane but time-consuming tasks is the periodic fuel sampling to ensure the water content in the fuel tanks is within acceptable levels. Too much moisture leads to all kinds of nastiness in terms of bacterial growth.

Some times the onboard Air conditioning system is run and hydraulics may be turned on to cycle flight controls and brakes. It all depends on the storage procedures specified for the aircraft.

Overnight storage vs weekly vs monthly vs long term all have different specifications also.

Long term storage in Alaska is very different to long term storage in Phoenix. Commercial vs. Cargo also has different requirements.

Just because they're not in service doesnt necessarily mean they're not being maintained.

When they're ready to go back into service there's a significant reactivation process that takes place to ensure that time limited components are still airworthy...e.g. fire extinguishers, life vests, oxygen bottles and generators etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluecollar2 (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 09:19 AM

18. Thanks for that excellent synopsis

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 10:42 AM

23. You're welcome

Personally, I always found working picked aircraft to be a pleasure.

No rush to get aircraft "on the gate" for a revenue flight...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 02:27 AM

16. The dangers I see are with component deterioration.

Many components can either deteriorate in storage or be damaged on first use after long-term storage.

Examples:
* Thousands of rubber seals (both rotary and linear) can stick to sliding surfaces, then crack or tear when first used. Evidence of damage may not surface for quite a while and could be problems such as hydraulic leaks, sticking instrument valves, etc.
* Electrolytic capacitors in electronic systems may deteriorate in storage depending on temperature. Some can lose properties if "shocked" back into service where there are high current surges.
* Life expectancy of many mechanical and electronic components may be shortened if stored in very high temperature extremes - either hot or cold. Examples: liquid crystal displays, capacitors and batteries.
* Batteries of any type may deteriorate in storage and some need to be regularly cycled. Again, evidence of loss of properties may not be immediately obvious, such as with a memory backup cell.
* Bacterial growth seems a possibility in food handling and toilet facilities.

If I was an airline taking possession of these aircraft, I would insist on:
* extremely thorough inspections and proof of performance testing of all systems with demonstration of multiple test cycles,
* extended warranty on most everything, and
* assistance with added layers of liability insurance.

KY.........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 11:52 PM

8. I bet that parking all those things is a pain in the ass

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to htuttle (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 12:00 AM

9. Why so late for work? I had to park really far away because of.....Karen and frickin Larry!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to underpants (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 12:02 AM

11. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to underpants (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:24 PM

27. !

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to htuttle (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 02:01 AM

15. After 9/11

It was a real pain in the ass getting the fleets back in the air. Most aircraft landed at and were parked at the nearest airport.

Took weeks to get the aircraft back in service.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:13 AM

13. They better start ferry flighting them to one of the Azizona boneyards ....

I don't think anyone trusts Boeing or these planes. Months to fix a glich...well it was more than that as we now see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Historic NY (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:32 PM

28. It's largely atesting squabbles with the FAA at this point.

They'll get up and running eventually, or the taxpayers will have to bail Boeing out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 04:27 AM

17. I used to live on this base as a kid

An arid flat tumbleweed of a base. Do you think the grounding is going to have a ripple effect on our economy?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Generic Other (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 09:22 AM

19. It certainly is going to have a local effect in the Seattle area...

As well as Wichita where the 737 fuselages are built.

But will it drag the entire US economy down?


No more than a protracted strike or shutdown at GM would do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 12:12 PM

26. on npr this morning they were saying it could lower the gdp by one full point.

due to the ripple effect to all the supporting industries.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 5X (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 03:56 PM

30. I don't doubt it

By dollar amount, Boeing is the nationís largest exporter

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 10:32 AM

21. This is why I never use valet parking

If Spicejet wants that plane in the back, it'll take weeks to rearrange everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brooklynite (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 11:24 AM

24. LOL!

No kidding, eh?


Damn valet dudes!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 10:35 AM

22. $140 Million each

This is tens of billions of dollars worth of aircraft (and investment) just sitting there not paying for their cost. Amazing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 12:06 PM

25. They look like schools of fish.

Wonder if they are on google earth yet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A HERETIC I AM (Original post)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 01:46 PM

29. All ready to carry the Republican leadership away to Russia and Saudi Arabia...

... when the civil war starts. Their pawns will be left behind, of course.

Ask your Trump supporting neighbor if they've got their "Project Rapture" tickets yet.

.

.

.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread