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Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:16 PM

I've decided that impeachment is absolutely essential even...

... though we know the senate won't convict. This is to get all the facts out on the table and to educate the American public about the Constitution.

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Reply I've decided that impeachment is absolutely essential even... (Original post)
LAS14 Dec 4 OP
vlyons Dec 4 #1
LAS14 Dec 4 #2
Newest Reality Dec 4 #3
Ingersollman Dec 5 #25
fleur-de-lisa Dec 4 #4
Garrett78 Dec 4 #5
yellowdogintexas Dec 5 #33
lame54 Dec 4 #6
lostnfound Dec 4 #7
coti Dec 4 #10
coti Dec 4 #8
dalton99a Dec 4 #9
Lonestarblue Dec 4 #11
RANDYWILDMAN Dec 4 #13
lunatica Dec 4 #12
Still In Wisconsin Dec 4 #14
Fiendish Thingy Dec 4 #17
Still In Wisconsin Dec 5 #23
calimary Dec 6 #34
Still In Wisconsin Dec 6 #35
Perseus Dec 5 #28
BigmanPigman Dec 4 #15
nuxvomica Dec 4 #16
bitterross Dec 4 #18
iluvtennis Dec 4 #19
DENVERPOPS Dec 4 #20
Pobeka Dec 4 #21
greenjar_01 Dec 4 #22
Tom Rinaldo Dec 5 #24
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 8 #36
Moostache Dec 5 #26
Perseus Dec 5 #27
coti Dec 5 #29
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 8 #37
Runningdawg Dec 5 #30
Nitram Dec 5 #31
cstanleytech Dec 5 #32

Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:20 PM

1. yes I agree

and also to go into the Congressional record and eventually the Natl archives. It's also extremely important to get every congressman and Senator on record for how they voted. Personal honor and integrity and faithfulness to an oath of office is virtuous. They will have to live with the honor or shame of their vote.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:22 PM

2. Yes, I should have included getting all lawmakers on record. nt

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:25 PM

3. Absolutely.

There is a lot at stake here. A whole lot. The whole thing.

It is interesting about the civics problem we seem to have. I assume that immigrants who apply for citizenship still have to go through the rigors of learning about and being tested in regards to what we are talking about.

Now, how deplorable is it that we see so many people that are born here who don't seem to have even a basic grasp on how our government functions.

It is obvious that we need more emphasis on an unbiased foundation in basic civics about how this government functions and what the value of that is. I don't think it would take much to do that and it could be covered easily in a short period.

Our democracy depends on that. Ignorance leads to an uniformed citizenry who don't even know or care about the vigilance required to keep this and then progress. Everything is pointing to more assaults to come from various directions, so the situation is critical in that regard.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 11:56 AM

25. You

are absolutely correct. Ignorance, willful ignorance, will be the end of this country, and indeed this civilization. The planet will move on.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:28 PM

4. Agree wholeheartedly!

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:44 PM

5. And because not impeaching him would set a dangerous precedent.

How could Congress justify not impeaching the most criminal president in history? What would that say to future presidents?

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:45 PM

33. the Impeachment portion of the Constitution would lose every bit of

credibility and any future House which felt the need to impeach would not have a leg to stand on.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:45 PM

6. Absolutely

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:47 PM

7. And because we can't predict the future. Do the right thing, and hope for unforeseen good luck.

Maybe something more will come to light that affects his supporters enough to tip some senators.
Or this education will tip enough voters to make the critical difference in November.
Or some GOP senators will lose because of it.
Or Donald will have a nervous breakdown and resign.

At the very least, it will go down in the history books that some Americans opposed the madman. That the Democrats stood up for the constitution.

Or local GOP people will be so disgusted they will split off into a new party.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:52 PM

10. Yes. At the very least, be able to respect yourself when you look in the mirror,

knowing you did everything you could. And I don't see how doing it right could be worse than the alternative.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:50 PM

8. No doubt. The moral bankruptcy of others can't stop us from doing what's right.

Future generations are counting on us.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:51 PM

9. Pretending Donald Trump is normal is not an option.

Silence is consent

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:10 PM

11. Republicans have been twisting themselves into knots to defend Trump.

They are either complicit in his crimes or they’re the most incompetent legislators in history. They’ve become masters at twisting the law.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:23 PM

13. This

the R's have nothing

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:18 PM

12. I always think in historical terms

so I think it should be treated as history for future Americans.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:34 PM

14. All of this is making Trump harder to beat in 2020. Nonetheless, I agree with you completely.

Trump will obviously not be convicted. In fact, his base will rally and independents seem to be moving TOWARD Trump in swing states, especially here in the Midwest, since proceedings started. But to avoid impeachment for reasons of political expediency would in the end just embolden Trump and future autocrats. It must be done because the law requires it be done. End, full stop.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:06 PM

17. No evidence to support your hypothesis

I can understand why you'd be fearful, but in actuality, the available data shows that since the inquiry started, all the top tier Dem candidates still beat Trump in head to head match ups, nationally, and in 2/3 Rust Belt states, including Wisconsin.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:42 AM

23. Not correct. Marquette University poll, gold standard in Wisconsin politics, has Trump +4

over Biden. He has larger leads over all the other candidates. Last summer he was down ten, so the trend is really bad. People around here love Donald Trump because they are racists and idiots.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:54 AM

34. Even so, we still HAVE TO impeach.

HAVE TO.

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:08 AM

35. We agree.

Impeachment is required, constitutionally, regardless of political consequences. To not impeach would be to forfeit any right to say we are governed by laws. To not impeach would be to say, "Yes, Trump is a king."

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 12:25 PM

28. What???? I know a lot of people who now see trump for what he is, a con, a traitor, and those people

WILL NOT be voting for trump. Not sure where you get this from, he only has about 30% support, and it is the same people that go to his rallies, and I have to think that a lot of those at his rallies are paid to go there, that is what unpopular dictators do, they pay people to show up at their rallies.

But anyway, that is why I hope he is impeached/indicted, along with Pence before the elections.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:53 PM

15. That is why I always supported it.

This is the point of the whole thing. We have to enforce the Constitution, not play politics. It is the principle idea with the Founding Fathers and checks and balances. This is the foundation of our country, damn it!

Maybe walking past Independence Hall in Phial going to work every day and growing up surrounded by our history I feel so much passion, respect and patriotism for our country. It kills me to see it being destroyed by our own govt. The TREASONOUS BASTARDS in the GOP must be made an example of for future citizens in the years to come.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:58 PM

16. From a pragmatic viewpoint, it's the only deterrent they have

Impeachment may at least have a chilling affect on further abuses, at least overt ones, as one of the gravest effects of the Trump hellscape of a presidency is that it gives license to illegal, unethical and hateful behavior by members of the public.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:13 PM

18. Absolutely correct!

When history is written it will be important to note that one party did the right thing and the other part became a cult.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:14 PM

19. Indeed. I've feltt this way through the entire process -I wanted it on the record and now we have it

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:18 PM

20. Think of all the fun we would have had

if all of the Trump's administration hadn't illegally been able to refuse to answer subpoenas.........

His crowd won't hear a word, or even think about a single thing other than what the Republicans/Trump tells them.............

An old guy once told me: The hardest time there is to learn something, is when you think you know it all.....

Their crowd reminds me so much of the 1000 in the cult that literally drank the "koolaid"...........

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 08:26 PM

21. AND it completely disables the "Dems and Repubs are the same, so don't vote" argument.

On show for those who don't vote is a stark difference, as stark as it gets.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 08:32 PM

22. It's necessary because Trump committed impeachable offenses

Doesn't strike me as having anything to do with "educating the public about the Constitution," which seems a very strange reason to impeach somebody.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:44 AM

24. I've thought that from the day Mueller issued his report. n/t

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 8, 2019, 07:03 PM

36. +1

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 12:19 PM

26. It is a very simple necessity and play book to follow:

Step 1) - hold transparent hearings and publish EVERYTHING
Step 2) - bring all relevant witnesses to public hearings, stress that others are defying LAWFUL subpoenas
Step 3) - interview experts in Constitutional Law and Impeachment
Step 4) - Draft articles of Impeachment
Step 5) - Make sure the GOP votes are hung on their necks in EVERY ad and campaign stop
Step 6) - watch 2018's historic Blue Wave be overtaken by 2020 Blue Tsunami

The critical thing here is to start, right NOW, laying the groundwork for the GOP's duplicity to haunt them.
We KNOW they are not going to convict or remove.
We KNOW they are going to pretend a grave injustice was being done to them, uber-victim-alles that they are.
We should be ahead of this curve with ads and media appearances (and NOT from the back-benchers, from the Party headliners and future leadership) stating full-throated objections to Trump's crimes and obstructions and false claims of privilege.

There is overwhelming evidence that Trump directed a crime, a cover-up and obstructed Congress in every step of the Ukraine scheme.
There is overwhelming evidence that the GOP is unwilling to say "up is up", "down is down" or "2+2=4" as long as Trump does not.
There is overwhelming evidence that Trump will continue to spin, prevaricate and flat out lie about EVERYTHING.

We need to simply say "Yeah? That all you got?" and proceed to unload on him again and again and again until the message sinks in to the general population that says they don't even know what the fuss is all about. If Steyer and Bloomberg REALLY want to help and want to spend money to defeat Trump (and not just insure they are in position to protect their wealth or use it to purchase power), then they should suspend their campaigns, unite in common cause and use their fortunes and platforms to take down Trump once and for all.

If Democratic Party (or self-professing for convenience) billionaires want to help, they can help us outspend the GOP hate machine and spend them into oblivion much like the USA-USSR arms race helped to bankrupt the USSR and 'win' the Cold War.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 12:20 PM

27. We don't know the Senate will not convict

The proof, the article of impeachment must be drafted in such a way that there is no room but to indict. All proof must be brought to the table, including "Obstruction of Justice" which he has committed twice (many times on each), once during the Muller investigation and once during the impeachment inquiry. To leave out obstruction of justice is a mistake. Emoluments must also be presented, there are plenty of examples/proof that he has also committed misdemeanors pertaining to the emoluments clause.

All of his rants against the country must be presented, there is so much to provide that would ridicule trump, provide plenty of proof of his crimes and misdemeanors that well presented would give the Senate no other recourse but to indict.

We must stop repeating that the Senate will not indict, we must change the script by saying "there is so much proof of trump's crimes and misdemeanors that if the Senate were not to indict it would prove they are as guilty as trump, and as traitors as he is." Or something like that, but the meme of their treason must begin now. They must be forced to indict, just like republicans changed their tune during Nixon, leave no room for them to do otherwise.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 12:31 PM

29. Completely disagree. The best thing to do is to be very, very clear that the Senate won't consider

the evidence in any real way- because they won't. Don't leave it open, like with the Mueller Report, that maybe these fascists a-holes have some respect for the rule of law left. That's what allowed them to obfuscate.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 8, 2019, 07:05 PM

37. Agree 100%

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 12:51 PM

30. THIS 100%

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 02:26 PM

31. I agree 100%.

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Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Thu Dec 5, 2019, 09:05 PM

32. The problem isnt the public not being educated rather the problem is a large portion of the

population is willing to accept corruption and corrupt public officials as long as it makes them go from feeling powerless and weak to feeling powerful and strong.
After all the knowledge about Trump including the fact that he inherited his wealth as well as his character and his numerous business disasters not to mention his disgusting treatment of women, minorities and the disabled was already well known but millions supported him and still do.

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