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Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:10 PM

Our daughter has been indoctrinated by the Fauxed and Christianed family she married into.

She wants nothing to do with us. We’re evil liberals. It was the first holiday without her and our grandchildren. Has this happened to anyone else? How are you coping?

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Reply Our daughter has been indoctrinated by the Fauxed and Christianed family she married into. (Original post)
onecaliberal Nov 2019 OP
Lunabell Nov 2019 #1
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #2
blueinredohio Nov 2019 #22
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #34
dchill Nov 2019 #53
spike jones Nov 2019 #70
Skittles Nov 2019 #3
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #23
Hortensis Nov 2019 #47
SuprstitionAintthWay Dec 2019 #158
Hortensis Dec 2019 #159
reACTIONary Nov 2019 #117
bamagal62 Nov 2019 #149
reACTIONary Nov 2019 #155
cwydro Nov 2019 #4
Mariana Nov 2019 #14
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #15
Tech Nov 2019 #19
Mariana Nov 2019 #26
dawg day Nov 2019 #42
Mariana Nov 2019 #51
questionseverything Nov 2019 #110
ThoughtCriminal Nov 2019 #132
Beartracks Nov 2019 #134
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #29
Mariana Nov 2019 #36
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #37
Mariana Nov 2019 #52
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #65
spike jones Nov 2019 #79
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #80
spike jones Nov 2019 #98
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #101
spike jones Nov 2019 #116
Hortensis Nov 2019 #119
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #127
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #138
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #140
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #141
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #144
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #153
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #157
a la izquierda Nov 2019 #150
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #57
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #68
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #73
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #76
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #86
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #93
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #95
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #97
Major Nikon Nov 2019 #107
Drahthaardogs Nov 2019 #115
blueinredohio Nov 2019 #25
Mariana Nov 2019 #31
blueinredohio Nov 2019 #39
stopbush Nov 2019 #30
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2019 #55
stopbush Nov 2019 #59
Richard D Nov 2019 #71
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2019 #83
Beringia Nov 2019 #72
stopbush Nov 2019 #92
Beringia Nov 2019 #139
stopbush Nov 2019 #154
delisen Nov 2019 #43
tymorial Nov 2019 #5
regnaD kciN Nov 2019 #17
braddy Nov 2019 #6
Coventina Nov 2019 #9
dem4decades Nov 2019 #7
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #10
dem4decades Nov 2019 #20
Desert grandma Nov 2019 #44
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #49
Rorey Nov 2019 #50
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #54
keithbvadu2 Nov 2019 #75
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #99
jberryhill Nov 2019 #142
The Wielding Truth Nov 2019 #8
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #35
Aristus Nov 2019 #11
Mariana Nov 2019 #12
NCLefty Nov 2019 #13
blm Nov 2019 #18
Calista241 Nov 2019 #16
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #21
lostnfound Nov 2019 #94
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #100
Hortensis Nov 2019 #131
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #32
GitRDun Nov 2019 #24
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #28
GitRDun Nov 2019 #45
Rorey Nov 2019 #46
GitRDun Nov 2019 #77
keithbvadu2 Nov 2019 #81
GitRDun Nov 2019 #96
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #104
NCLefty Nov 2019 #146
radius777 Nov 2019 #105
GitRDun Nov 2019 #121
radius777 Nov 2019 #145
raccoon Nov 2019 #152
at140 Nov 2019 #27
Joe941 Nov 2019 #61
at140 Nov 2019 #78
Joe941 Nov 2019 #106
Rorey Nov 2019 #87
at140 Nov 2019 #91
DENVERPOPS Nov 2019 #33
YOHABLO Nov 2019 #38
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #56
Hortensis Nov 2019 #40
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #58
Hortensis Nov 2019 #66
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #108
LaurenOlimina Nov 2019 #41
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #60
LaurenOlimina Nov 2019 #69
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #111
catchnrelease Nov 2019 #109
guillaumeb Nov 2019 #48
cilla4progress Nov 2019 #62
handmade34 Nov 2019 #63
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #112
Maraya1969 Nov 2019 #64
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #113
erlewyne Nov 2019 #67
Backseat Driver Nov 2019 #74
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #118
NRaleighLiberal Nov 2019 #82
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #120
yaesu Nov 2019 #84
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2019 #85
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #136
keithbvadu2 Nov 2019 #88
Niagara Nov 2019 #89
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #122
radius777 Nov 2019 #90
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #125
Takket Nov 2019 #102
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #128
FirstLight Nov 2019 #103
Dan Nov 2019 #114
ThoughtCriminal Nov 2019 #123
jimlup Nov 2019 #124
NameAlreadyTaken Nov 2019 #126
madaboutharry Nov 2019 #129
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #130
Joinfortmill Nov 2019 #133
pnwmom Nov 2019 #135
onecaliberal Nov 2019 #137
kimbutgar Nov 2019 #143
vlyons Nov 2019 #147
KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2019 #148
a la izquierda Nov 2019 #151
Shrike47 Nov 2019 #156

Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:14 PM

1. I'm so sorry.

This must be so painful for you. I hope one day she'll wake up and return to her right mind. I am lucky that my sisters aren't trumpsters. My parents are gone, so they don't count, lol.

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Response to Lunabell (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:17 PM

2. Thank you. They're church pastors so I'm not very hopeful.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:21 PM

22. Maybe they should rethink whatever their religion is.

Doesn't God love everybody? No matter their political party. I'm sorry for you and your grandkids maybe the grandkids will realize this is not right. Bless you.

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Response to blueinredohio (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:34 PM

34. Apparently God hates liberals.

We’re baby killers, dontcha know.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:06 PM

53. Jesus.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:27 PM

70. Anne Lamott --

‘You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.’

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:17 PM

3. sad

even sadder to think the grandchildren are being brainwashed too

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Response to Skittles (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:22 PM

23. That is the thing that I think about most.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:53 PM

47. Yes, but not everyone is equally vulnerable to that.

Personality is very strongly influenced by environment, but it's also genetically linked, and your grandchildren have your genes also. I've forgotten the exact figures, but at least/something like 1/3 of children of strong conservatives do not share their parents' views as they grow up.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 08:27 AM

158. Too many average humans are susceptible to the poison, tho.

My brother-in-law heard Rush playing in his workplace every day for decades and had Fox "News" on every night at home as he raised my 2 nephews. Both boys are now young men. One is a guns and jacked-up pickup trucks enthusiast who hates all minorities. The other, tho a college grad, insists humans aren't causing climate change, particularly hates feminism, and gets all of his political opinions verbatim off Breitbart or even Infowars. Both, of course, along with their dad, are hardcore Trumpists.

I do what I can but it's paddling against.the tide.

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Response to SuprstitionAintthWay (Reply #158)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:56 AM

159. Too true. Fox isn't just everywhere, it's easily the best

produced news and available all day. It's formula is very watchable and in most hours and places the only major national news programming available. Even when you know they're showing freak deaths on roller coasters and incredibly stupid bank robbers to keep people both delusionally frightened about how dangerous it is "out there" and entertained, it's still lively and interesting.

People who vote against Fox's Kool-Aid strongly outnumber those soaked through with it, though. If it weren't for the electoral college, what today's Republicans have become would be hard put to elect more than a minority caucus anywhere but very red states.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:36 PM

117. I've read that children of religious extremists....

.... tend toward the average, rather than adopt those views themselves.

This is why recruitment and conversion are important to extreme sects. Without it they would wither away over the generations.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #117)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 02:32 AM

149. Although my husbands parents were not extremists,

They were missionaries and my husband and his sister (MKs-missionary kids) are both very anti-organized religion. Neither go to church and the whole religion thing annoys them. Their whole childhood revolved around the church and they couldn’t get away from it fast enough. His cousins, on the other hand, who are PKs-preacher’s kids, are batshit crazy. I’ve always wondered if their living overseas helped broaden their views (my husband’s and his sister’s).

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Response to bamagal62 (Reply #149)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 11:05 AM

155. Very interesting - nt

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:17 PM

4. I truly don't understand people who allow political views to dictate their lives.

I find it bizarre.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:56 PM

14. The OP's situation isn't entirely about political views, it seems.

There appears to be a religious aspect as well. The Bible says Jesus taught his followers to reject their families if they believe differently. Some Christians take that teaching very seriously indeed.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:58 PM

15. One of the more cultish aspects of the religion

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Response to Mariana (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:10 PM

19. Do you know where this is in the bible? Raised Catholic, never heard that.

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Response to Tech (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:25 PM

26. Sure.

Luke 14 : 26 - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life - such a person cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10 : 34-36 - “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

He set the example by rejecting his own family, in favor of his disciples:

Matthew 12 : 46-50 - While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

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Response to Mariana (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:48 PM

42. And yet as he was dying on the cross,

He thought of his mother and asked Apostle John to take care of her.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #42)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:02 PM

51. Maybe by then, he decided

that she was doing "the will of my Father in heaven" well enough to suit him, and so she could be his mother again.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:28 PM

110. you are putting a false spin on what He said

He was not rejecting His family but elevating His disciples

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #110)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:59 PM

132. More specifically, it is a bad translation

I think that only King James Bible uses the word "Hate". Unfortunately, this is the translation that seems most popular with right-wing, fundamentalist, "Christians", and while many of them think they are biblical scholars because they can memorize convenient chunks of it, they are not really very literate.

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #110)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:03 AM

134. That was always my take on it as well. Plus...

... who are we to say He didn't talk to His family after He was through teaching? Or that the story is indeed even "historically accurate" in that the event happened exactly as written down many, many years later? The Bible isn't exactly a documentary of Jesus' daily comings and goings.

==============

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Response to Tech (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:30 PM

29. That's because Catholic and Orthodox do not believe in a literal

Transaction of the Bible. That's purely Protestant that teaches Sola scriptura.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:38 PM

36. Even if it's only metaphorical, the message is the same. nt.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:39 PM

37. No it's not, not even close.

That's not what that parable means at all.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:02 PM

52. Please, then, do tell us what it means. nt.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:23 PM

65. It refers to love, not hatred...

You see, the opposite of love is NOT hate, the opposite of love is manipulation. When you do something out of love, you do it solely for the benefit of that person, with no expectation of anything for yourself. When you do something for someone expecting something in return, that is manipulation, and it is the most unloving thing you can do. Love is losing yourself for the benefit of others

St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians (which everyone breads at weddings but few actually take the time to digest) speaks of what love is and is not!

Jesus 11th commandment was to love thy neighbor as thyself. He also spoke of "whoever tried to save his life will lose his life...". Jesus "came to serve, not to rule", self sacrifice for others and for God is the message.

Catholic teaching even of the Commandments differs from Protestant in that it's not "Worshipping other God's", I n Catholicism, anything put before God can become a false God. This can include money, sex, booze, your job, your children, etc. If that becomes your motivation, you have made it your god.

That parable is Jesus telling you to put God before your parents, children, and yourself.b

It's not meant to mean that you are to literally HATE your parents

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:33 PM

79. The opposite of love is indifference. n/t

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Response to spike jones (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:35 PM

80. No. Apathy is not

You don't get it. When you love someone you act solely in their interest, not your own.

Love means giving and doing with no expectation of getting something in return. It is completely selfless

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:10 PM

98. But when you don't love someone you don't care about their interest.

It is like, "love is never having to say you're sorry.'
But so is not giving a shit.

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Response to spike jones (Reply #98)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:17 PM

101. Love is always saying you're sorry

Because you value the other person's feelings more than you do your own.


Whoever made that quote had no idea what love is.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #101)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:34 PM

116. that is a quote from a movie that I have never seen.

I am sorry we disagree on this. I love you.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:40 PM

119. Interesting discussion, thanks.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:48 PM

127. The level of pretzel logic required to refute that is astounding

In both the OT and NT there’s numerous verses which instruct followers in that very message. While someone might take a particular verse and twist themselves enough to think it means something else, it’s increasingly difficult to do so with all such verses. Even if one is able to delude themselves into believing otherwise, the notion that all those who most certainly are convinced it means what it says are doing it wrong becomes a work of performance art.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #127)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:18 AM

138. Nah, just not a Protestant

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #138)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:23 AM

140. I've already told you I'm not playing your games anymore

Any continued arguments you wish to have are going to be solo or with someone else.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #140)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:31 AM

141. Then how about you quit pretending you understand Catholic teaching

Because you obviously don't?

You are spreading misinformation, and it's wrong. My grandparents were Apologists and my Aunt a Sister of Charity.

I may not believe it, but I sure as hell know what the teachings are. I grew up in that culture and I was expected to KNOW it, not just practice it. Catholics have enough problems without people attributing the Protestant bullshit to them.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #141)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:52 AM

144. Unlike you I'm not even "pretending" you are wrong

I was just presenting a different viewpoint which has evidently upset you for whatever reason. Now you are simply getting uglier about it which I had already anticipated. All you are really doing now is just confirming I made the right decision not to discuss the subject with you further.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #144)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 10:26 AM

153. You presented a viewpoint founded on YOUR interpretation of

Catholic teaching, NOT that of the Catechism or Magesterium. You cant pretend I'm wrong, because I'm not. I linked you to two Apologists' blogs that parroted exactly what I said. I told you my background, do you really think that had not heard Luke 14:26 before and not heard the Catholic position?

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #153)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 01:38 PM

157. I like dark beer

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Response to Mariana (Reply #36)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 03:51 AM

150. It's not.

It’s a very odd interpretation.
Bedsides, pretty sure one of the Commandments is to honor thy father and mother.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:15 PM

57. Of course they do

They simply deviate from the literal occasionally when it suits them while pretending to know what the intent was of the anonymous authors which they can’t possibly know. Of the two approaches, it’s the least honest.

Meanwhile there’s numerous other verses which illustrate the same point, many of which have been used by saints and popes to shun not just non-Christians, but also non-Catholics.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:26 PM

68. That is NOT Catholic teaching.

Catholic Church (CCC), paragraph #115, we read,

“According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses [more on those below].”

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #68)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:28 PM

73. more on those below

Interesting you left that part out. Along with the next section which deals with the former

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #73)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:30 PM

76. By all means, tell me where the Catechism says what you purport

Paragraph #116 of the Catechism gives us more on the literal sense of Scripture, “The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: ‘All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.’”

It is the MESSAGE, being conveyed.

That was what was below.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:43 PM

86. Protestants also believe they are conveying the correct message

The only thing that’s different (occasionally), is the interpretation.

All popes, including the current one, preach that the bible is inerrant. It’s pretty difficult to simultaneously preach about an inerrant bible while claiming so many verses don’t mean what they say they mean. Goes a long way towards explaining why shunning non-Catholics is a time honored tradition, or at least considerably farther than trying to explain why it isn’t.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #86)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:51 PM

93. The Popes do NOT teach that the Bible is incapable of being wrong

That whole "Divinely Inspired" in s all Protestant.

The Catholics teach that Jesus spoke in parables and also teach that there is Sacred Tradition as well.

In fact, the Vulgate is NOT even the same Bible as the King James. Two different books.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #93)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:56 PM

95. From the same source you are using....

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #95)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:04 PM

97. And yet the synod of Bishops refuted that under Benedict

Regardless, being divinely inspired is NOT the same as incapable of being.incorrect, especially when you realize, as I stated earlier, that Catholic teaching is NOT in a literal translation, but rather, the spiritual message conveyed by the parables.

In fact, the Catholic missile and prayers were recently re-translated with some rather distinct changes.

Furthermore, Vatican II would have and could have NEVER ocurred if what you say is true. The Order of the Mass was fundamentally changed. Impossible if your views are correct (which they're not)

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #97)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:23 PM

107. Wow, so the catechism is the authority on Catholic teaching except when it isn't!

It literally says “without error”. You don’t get to have it both ways here. If you are going to use the catechism as your proof of concept, selectively reading it while ignoring the parts which you don’t like doesn’t do your argument any favors.

Since you are intent of going down the road of strawman with whatever you claim my view is and getting very far away from the point in which you originally contested, I see no point in my continued participation.

Cheers!

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #107)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:33 PM

115. Only straws are the ones you grasp

A divine message is NOT the same as literally taken word for word. So in your world, Robert Frost really WAS talking about a stroll through the woods and NOT his life choices. Pretty. Freaking. Sorry.

You also claim that Catholic and Protestant are essentially the same, when in fact, they are not, especially once Calvinism is introduced.

Transsubstantation, the corpa on a crucifix, the Order if the Mass, the Apocrypha, reconciliation, Apostolic lineage, faith AND works, etc.

You are right, we need to be done but not because my argument had changed, it has not. Catholic teaching has NEVER been a literal translation of the Bible. Jesus spoke in parables in a way that would deliver a message to the people of that time. The message conveyed is the truth and the divine, not the stories.

It's why Catholics don't say the world is 4000 years old.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:24 PM

25. I've never read or heard that. Could you tell me the book and verse?

That's something I would look up.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:43 PM

39. Thanks

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Response to Mariana (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:30 PM

30. Jesus was a fairly loathsome character in his teachings. A real shithead, to be honest.

Amazing how believers ignore half of his sayings and filter the other half through the Enlightenment prism to justify the bullshit.

Jesus is a fiction, a fiction that reflects the inhumane times in which the fictions were written.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:11 PM

55. He hates FIGS, for gods sakes. n/t

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #55)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:17 PM

59. And pigs, too. He hates pigs.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:27 PM

71. But he blessed . . .

. . . the Greeks!

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Response to stopbush (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:40 PM

83. Hmmm! 🤨

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Response to stopbush (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:28 PM

72. What teaching of his was loathsome?

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Response to Beringia (Reply #72)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:50 PM

92. Cited earlier in this thread. But many more.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #92)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:22 AM

139. So scroll thru 138 posts for I don't even know what I am looking for?

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Response to Beringia (Reply #139)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 10:38 AM

154. Yep. That's how it works. We're adults here.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:48 PM

43. What God has joined together let no man put asunder

Catholic church uses this say of Jesus to forbid divorce. Anglican used to do so-not sure what the doctrine is now.

Many protestant churches ignore it, thus much divorce among fundamentalists and evangelicals.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:19 PM

5. It happened with my cousin

We were very close until he married his wife. Her family were one of those Catholics who hate Vatican II and believe services should only be in Latin etc. Our family attended Mass semi regularly but we weren't devout and we certainly didnt care whether the mass was in English.

Overtime my cousin started distancing himself from me and his other cousins (we were always very close) his parents got divorced so he first distance himself from his father, then his sister because she was in contact with his father and then his mother because she refused to speak badly about her ex-husband (he cheated but she didnt want to alienate her kids and grandkids)

Eventually my cousin got divorced himself and slowly he came back to us. It was incredibly destructive though. He too called us liberals and worshiping satan. It was a mess..

I can share how heart braking it was for me but I know my aunt hurt so much more. She missed the first 6 years of her grandchildrens' lives.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:58 PM

17. I haven't quite been there...

...in that I was never an ultra-conservative Roman Catholic, but I can sympathize a bit with your cousin's later path (not the "accusing you of worshiping Satan" part). It must be devastating to buy into that ultra-strict brand of Roman Catholicism, especially in order to be closer to your spouse, and then find yourself with a status where you are told you are certainly destined for Hell unless you remain alone the rest of your life. Even being in a more-moderate version of Roman Catholicism myself, that experience was brutal.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:20 PM

6. For one thing she might be reacting to people who think that she is incapable of thinking for

 

herself and that she can only have opinions that are a result of being "brainwashed" by the people she prefers to be with.

Perhaps you should try accepting her as a real person.

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Response to braddy (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:31 PM

9. unrec. n/t

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:27 PM

7. Keep a relationship with your grandchildren, someday they may surprise you.

Sorry about your daughter.

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:46 PM

10. The grandchild are 4 and 2. She doesn't allow us a relationship. I leave gifts on their porch.

She may be discarding it all. Who knows. The emotional blackmail is incredibly painful.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:14 PM

20. That's tough, i can't even comprehend. It's like a cult and sadly you can't do anything.

Best of luck.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:49 PM

44. This must be heartbreaking for you.

Our son was estranged from us for a couple of years after the election. I continued to invite him and his family to all of our family gatherings. I had decided that if he did not respond to the invitations, then that would be HIS choice not to come and not ours. We never heard from them. Until last summer that is. It appears his wife was cheating on him and they divorced. He needed his family and our support. He started by communicating with his siblings and then reached out to us. I got a message from him a couple of weeks ago and he made a point to say "I love you guys, and I'm sorry I haven't shown it more often." So don't give up. If they are that rigid in their thinking, I would guess that there will be problems ahead. Keep the lines of communication open, because you never know when your love and support will be welcomed.

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Response to Desert grandma (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:57 PM

49. Thank you, we would never deny her support or love.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:00 PM

50. I don't know your daughter, but I'm spitting mad at her

She's not only cheating you out of time with your grandchildren, she's cheating them too. Even if your views are vastly different from hers, this is just despicable. It's not as if you'd be speaking politics or religion to a four year old and a two year old.

She sure as hell isn't acting in a Christian manner.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:11 PM

54. Thank you. Of course we wouldn't discuss those subject with children.

I just want to play with them, cook for them and spend time with them. It is very painful. I miss them terribly.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:29 PM

75. She is probably indoctrinating them to believe that you do not want them.

She is probably indoctrinating them to believe that you do not want them.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:13 PM

99. My greatest fear.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:40 AM

142. wow

 


wow

That's sad.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:30 PM

8. I think it's difficult to remain in such a false world. The truth will makes its way through.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:36 PM

35. I hope you're right.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:50 PM

11. We cut my son-in-law's family out years ago.

My s-i-l is the sweetest, nicest young man in the world. His parents and sister are right-wing whackos who are impossible to be in the same room with without imagining a smiling group of Germans shrugging as Jews are loaded onto freight cars. "Well, The Fuhrer says Jews are the enemies of the German Volk, right?"

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:50 PM

12. My sister in law did that, when she got recruited into a fundie church.

Her brother and I aren't Christians, so she wouldn't have anything to do with us, forbid her children to see us, etc. She also tried, with some success, to turn the rest of the family against us. My husband's relationship with his parents was strained for decades, right up until they died because of her relentless poisoning.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:53 PM

13. I did read that, once estranged, women are more likely to come back than men.

Last edited Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not sure if that's because they're more open to emotions/communication or what.

The religion aspect is the most disturbing. You can justify almost anything with it. :/

You might just need to give her some space. Maybe you can keep sending her well wishes on her birthday and the holidays, even if she doesn't respond. She may eventually regret cutting you off.

I don't talk to my Fox-News-loving parents anymore but they created a lot of family disruption (via divorce/re-marrying) when I was a kid so their politics were really just the last straw for me.

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Response to NCLefty (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:02 PM

18. I agree with this. Keep a thread intact.

Marriages change. She may need you down the line. So will the grandchildren. Divorce rates of fundies are pretty high.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 08:58 PM

16. My parents are pretty hard core Faux watchers

Even with polar opposite political beliefs, I try to look for the points of agreement.

Of course, my parents are mainly 'fiscal conservatives' or libertarians to use a term. They're pretty amenable to the environment as an issue, and are opposed to religious influence in our government.

It's worth it to me to maintain our relationship. I can only hope that time and experience will modify their thinking, but for the most part, I try to stay away from being seen as trying to influencing them.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:20 PM

21. We tried diligently to keep a relationship. She slowly but surely stopped including us, stopped

Calling and visiting. Then stopped us from visiting. There was no argument, no blow up. To make matters worse, my husband had a stroke right after the 2016 election and this weighs heavily on him.
I don’t understand how she can just throw us away.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:52 PM

94. Maybe she's being emotionally blackmailed by the husband

I’m so sorry. I don’t think you should think of it as being thrown away. Maybe she is stressed out raising the kids and has a controlling husband? Fears that the conflict with her husband about it will be the last straw. Deep down it may be different than it seems in the surface. Hang in there. .

You have a right to be angry. I wonder if you’d like to volunteer to help some little kids, to give you a constructive place to transfer your loss and anger into a different outlet for the love you have to give. Like volunteer with a literacy group, Guardian ad litem, or m
Make a Wish, or something similar.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #94)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:15 PM

100. Very good suggestions. I will definitely look into that.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #94)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:54 PM

131. Yes, good suggestions. She may well have been pushed into

making a choice that was not what she would have wanted.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:32 PM

32. We never discussed politics with them or her In-laws. We were politically active before my

Husbands stroke. Our politics has never been a secret. We never pushed any of our children to affiliate with any party.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:23 PM

24. I think the best thing is to let it go for now...

My oldest (29) and youngest daughter (22) got into a fight with their brother. It was over something really dumb. Not worth a harsh word by anyone.

The youngest instigated it. The oldest escalated it to the point where she first broke an electronic item he was holding. Then she followed it up by hitting her brother so hard in the ear he lost 90% of his hearing in that ear; and he happens to be a musician.

While he was not guiltless (called them some names in response to their bad words), he didn't hurt anyone, and was trying to leave when he got cold cocked.

While I was not there when it happened, I did try hard to get them to talk to each other and apologize.

The girls were so blind they refused to reconcile "until he gets help".

I ripped up their Xmas gift checks as well as my youngest's graduation gift check. Told them they could have them back when they start acting like adults.

Their response?

They ghosted me. It's been a year.

The reality of it from my perspective is it's not healthy for me to be in relationships with people who cannot treat those around them with simple respect.

While I am open to a relationship, I am not open to one where I have to accept a lack of respect and decency as a part of it.

Just my opinion... better alone than in bad company.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:28 PM

28. Well, we have no choice but to accept our reality.

I refuse to be treated like a doormat. It’s difficult to realize that your own children can just remove you from their lives because of religion and a political cult.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:51 PM

45. Agreed

Maybe some day they will come to their senses.

And I'm with you...I'm not anyone's doormat.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:51 PM

46. Good for you, even though it's got to be difficult

I've always tried to stay out of disagreements that my kids (all adults now) have had with each other. I know that I'd definitely insert my opinion if there was physical violence, because that's never okay. In the scenario you laid out, there was actual assault. Your youngest daughter should be thankful that your son didn't press charges.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:31 PM

77. I tried to point that out to the girls

Had the police arrived, my oldest would have wound up in cuffs.

I would have stayed out of it but for the physical assault. That's never OK...anywhere. I don't care what someone says to you.

My son had called the police. Then me. After I agreed to drive a couple hours to get him, he decided it wasn't worth dealing with the police so he called them off. Not sure why.. I didn't ask.

It was difficult at first, but therapy has taught me it's not healthy to have people in your life who don't treat you with the respect you deserve.

I'll never understand why it's so damned hard for some to say, "You know, I really screwed that up...I'm really sorry."

One of the mysteries of life....

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:35 PM

81. If you have any assets, leave them each one hundred dollars in your will.

The ones who ghosted you.

That way they probably cannot fight the will, claiming a share because you forgot them.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #81)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:57 PM

96. I didn't realize that could be a problem n/t

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #81)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:20 PM

104. We don't have a lot, it's all in a trust. We will leave a letter

Spelling out that she chose to leave our family behind.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #104)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 01:02 AM

146. There is a thing about leaving a small amount--as stated above. I think judges consider that.

You might want to check with a lawyer or Google how that might work in your state.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:21 PM

105. You did the right thing.

What the girls did was violent assault that left permanent damage - that is unacceptable - if the reverse happened your son would be in jail.

There has to be a underlying/simmering cause for why this happened. If it was just a dumb fight it would've blown over already.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #105)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:43 PM

121. There was a lot of history here....

My ex-wife is quite a narcissist.

Her idea of a relationship with a man is simply put; one way. She gets what she wants...that's it.

The girls have long had those tendencies....but they never blew up like this before.

I've seen it before in person. I've intervened in the past using humor. I was on vacation with the 4 kids a couple years ago. My youngest snapped at us boys that NO ONE GETS THE LAST 2 DIET COKES! They are her sisters.

I burst out laughing! I handed her $20 and said walk the 30' across the street and get more...we're on vacation! I suspect now no escalation happened because I'm their dad.

My son's response in the past was just what he did that day....sarcasm. After that, he asked if she could just speak to him nicely.

I'll never get why the blow up this time.

It is sad...but in the end, they are the one's who really lose. I've been there for them thru some pretty rough times. It's hard to find people in life who will be there for you thru thick and thin.

Throwing them away over nothing is really bad planning if you ask me.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #121)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:56 AM

145. I feel you. Perhaps the ex-wife/mom

can talk to the girls and resolve the issue. It sounds like a gendered divide in the family that she had a role in creating, and perhaps can help to resolve. The son also may be contributing to the problem in ways not understood on the surface. The best way to resolve these issues usually is a respected family member or friend that everyone likes, to provide perspective and serve as mediator.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 06:36 AM

152. Your son should've called the cops on that oldest sister. Nt

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:27 PM

27. Politics should not divide families

My suggestion is to NOT discuss or talk politics with your daughter and her family.

You know what, at the end of day, our lives do not change drastically depending on who wins elections.
I am coping just fine, Trump or No Trump.

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Response to at140 (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:19 PM

61. Its talk like this that will lead to 4 more yrs of tRump.

 

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:32 PM

78. I wish my talk could sway elections..alas they never have!

But I do hope that family finds peace instead of fighting over politics. Family is more important than who gets elected.

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Response to at140 (Reply #78)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:23 PM

106. Tell that to those who will not have health care if goppers destroy it.

 

When they wont recieve life saving care.

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Response to at140 (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:43 PM

87. The lives of some ARE drastically impacted

I agree that in some instances it's better to not talk politics with some people, but I completely disagree with your assertion that "our lives do not change drastically depending on who wins elections." Perhaps yours doesn't, and perhaps mine doesn't either. The impact of the policies of Repubs on my kids and especially my grandchildren may indeed be drastic. The very planet that we live on is endangered because of the policies of Repubs. That's a pretty big deal. And that's just one issue.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:49 PM

91. My words were meant more as a

soothing and peace finding path to the Original Poster.
A break up with your child over politics is extremely cruel situation for any parent.
Just leave it at that.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:33 PM

33. Sorry

Sorry that your daughter has been taken over by a "cult".........if you do see her, tell her not to drink any kool aid that they may offer her........

Seriously, I can't think of much of anything that would happen to a parent. Especially for such a spurious crowd as these anti-christ characters.........

I wish the FBI or someone could help, but I doubt they are gonna be able to do anything given the 60 Million followers this self proclaimed Messiah has following him.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:42 PM

38. What denomination does your daughter's in-laws belong to?

 

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:12 PM

56. It's part of the Baptist convention.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:43 PM

40. I'm so sorry, Onecaliberal. We're parents too.

It sounds almost certain that your daughter married into that family because her own nature naturally aligned with theirs. And tragically, this era aligns with con v liberal demonization.

Our DIL's daughter rejects her for personality-disorder reasons. Our DIL absorbs the kicks and keeps the door open. For some time now, the daughter has a guy to support her, so she's free to blame our son and DIL for various offences and not allow them to see the adorable 2-year-old grandson they reorganized their lives to largely raise in his first year. Heartbreaking. Of course, my husband and I miss him terribly also. When her daughter does want something, she always answers her calls nicely (as do other relatives), though every refusal of some unreasonable demand, including to cut ties with a relative by marriage who tried to put her through college and tried to give her the house he put her and allowed her to live free in, but who finally drew the line as the house was trashed and they blamed him for their abuse, is met with additional antagonism. On the plus side, he seems happy on the rare occasions when he's seen.

Hope that little glimpse into their world helps your daughter and relationship with her seem healthy in comparison. At least it sounds like she and your grandchildren are part of a functional family and you don't have to worry about their wellbeing. As for the liberal hate syndrome, that will someday ease for RW society in general. Hopefully, that big change will come to your family.

And maybe do whatever you can to let your grandchildren know as they grow older that you love them and are always theirs despite the divisions. Cards and gifts. Show up for school or other events if okay with the family. Eventually, one or more is likely to be more like you than the rest of their family.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #40)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:16 PM

58. The door will always be open. Her husband was home schooled

As was all of his siblings. My daughter has already told us that her children will also be homeschooled. There is literally no communication. We leave gifts and small things on the porch for them. That about the extent of it.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:25 PM

66. Sounds good, even though very closed off. Seriously.

Half the problem social workers have to deal with -- yours -- isn't.

Occurs to me that a line of information, rather than communication with family, about this church society might be a good thing to have. Might be a relative of other members or even chatting with a server in a local restaurant or a mail carrier (where they still exist they often know a fair amount about people and activities on their routes in general). Have you looked for on-line groups of people in your position?

Best wishes.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #66)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:24 PM

108. I have not thus far. I don't want to talk with other family

Members to avoid putting people in a hard spot. My in laws are fundies as well, nothing like her. She doesn’t really speak to them either.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:44 PM

41. Listen to this episode of 1a...

 

https://the1a.org/shows/2019-11-28/why-families-break-up-rebroadcast

It will give you some perspective.

"In the past five years, a clearer picture of estrangement has been emerging as more researchers have turned their attention to this kind of family rupture. Their findings challenge the deeply held notion that family relationships can’t be dissolved and suggest that estrangement is not all that uncommon."

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:17 PM

60. It's very painful for us in any case. We did nothing to deserve this.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:27 PM

69. That episode helped me.

 

You are not alone.

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #69)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:28 PM

111. Thank you.

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:27 PM

109. Glad you posted this

I was listening to it last night while driving home. I couldn't remember what the program was, but reading this thread I thought it would be so timely to post. Thankfully it is not relevant to me or my family but have had extended family with this issue.

My husband is long estranged from his only daughter and while he rarely talks about it, I know it pains him. My own immediate family is pretty close so it's really an unthinkable concept to me.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 09:55 PM

48. This happened to a friend of mine.

One of his children married and attended the church his spouse attended. For 5 years my friend did not see his grandchildren because he was not of their church.

After a time, he and his wife decided to seek another church in the same denomination. The situation is much better for them.

One hopes your daughter will do the same. Good luck.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:19 PM

62. Fascinating thread.

Though I am missing usual sources of joy in my life (strong community connections, good close friends that we actually spend time with).. I am very grateful that my extended family has successfully navigated this dilemma.

My side, all Russian Jewish immigrants married into African-American family so far, is all progressive. My husband's elderly mother and 2 of 3 siblings and families are all Democratic party-affiliated. He has one sister and her descendants (sons and grandkids) who have drunk the fundy koolaid and are drumpf supporters. And you know what - we love them to pieces. Not a word of politics crosses.our lips - not even the day after the election! It's kind of weird, but it works.

I wish this for others.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:20 PM

63. hang in there



let me just say I understand... my story is too long and complicated to share here

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #63)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:30 PM

112. Thank you. Peaceful thoughts for you

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:23 PM

64. Tell them that the estimates of deaths from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars number into

the millions and that includes children and babies and unborn babies. And the number of suicides of veterans since that same time is over 200,000. If that is what they want to proudly say is their view of "Pro-life" than so be it.

Republicans are the ones who start wars and then they cloak themselves under the name, "Pro-life" which they are not.

It is Democrats who want peace and work toward peace.

idk. Maybe something to bring up at the right time. Especially since one of the commandments if, "Thou shalt not kill"

And my condolences for your loss also. My brother wrote me off years ago because I was not living this, "Christian life" Things have changed over the years and we do have a relationship now. But I must be careful what I say to him and his family.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #64)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:32 PM

113. Oh she knows how we feel about Iraq. We protested BIGLY

I have pointed out many times that you can not be pro war and pro life. The two are simply not compatible.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:25 PM

67. She is loved and respected

When you are there it is a different story.
You are not on tv. Long thankless hours, days.
Thinking WTF. Wished I had this girl to hold

What did I serve for? I know she loves me.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:29 PM

74. I hear your heartbreak. Mine is reversed.

and it too hasn't been easy to accept. My RWXtian fundamentalist mother asked me never to speak to her again. Tired of the double-messages, the gaslighting, and other abusive behaviors, and steering that extended to her grandchildren and which evidently poisoned my dad and siblings toward me and mine as well until his dying day and no intervention, there was little else to do but to quit a very toxic relationship and go no contact.

Our family made our own traditions for holidays; our bonds, I believe, are of unconditional love and support not merely duty done. We enjoy our togetherness and our boundaries. We listen and ache for each other's heartaches. Loving support finds a way, and over the years that was all I'd ever really requested of her. Obviously, she's not remorseful for her request nor her behavior. She's now 90 years old, and I'm assuming her life has been the best it could be for her; perhaps it included those others, perhaps not so much, but that makes me rest easy. We've had no major shared history for more than a decade. I've no knowledge of who she sees or when; her health, her circumstances. She has no interest in ours, and that's the way it is in this life. After that, who really knows and inside we believe what is personal to each of us, heart and gut!

In the meantime, remember you were a loving couple before you were a family; find ways to tend that spousal garden of love and keep the lines open to your grandchildren--there's a certain freedom in that. Your daughter's kids may ask questions or request visits if they are old enough to remember, and she'll be hard put to answer honestly. What did she learn about lying? You sound like a very good mom. Our grown children learn what they've lived but certainly peers have great influence. It's a strong but not certain motivator in being a good mom to have shared family values!

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Response to Backseat Driver (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:38 PM

118. Thank you for the insight. It helps to know that you have

Moved on with a happy life.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:39 PM

82. Wow. So sorry - these are such challenging times on so many levels

We are pretty lucky - both are daughters are as liberal as my wife and I - one married an equally liberal man. The other married a fundy-type racist jerk - no idea how they are making it work. His parents are fundy wingnut types. No relationship between us and them, but we avoid each other. The fundy hubby knows enough to "go there" when we are around him. My brother veered far right when he moved to Florida - it has impacted our relationship for sure.

But - my wife and I spend most time with our two dogs and two cats, and as far as we know they are trump haters!

Not sure I have an answer for you - patience, perhaps, but once the cult takes hold, it is hard to see a way out for them.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #82)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:41 PM

120. Our two dogs and two cats despise trump as much as we do.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:40 PM

84. that happens to a lot, the cult is spreading, they even have evilgelical recruitment

parties at our local high school that i built with my own tax money.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:42 PM

85. I'm so sorry, I can't imagine. 😪

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #85)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:13 AM

136. Thank you.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:44 PM

88. Isolation - a strong sign of a cult.

Isolation - a strong sign of a cult.

To ensure the righteousness/true proof of their 'faith', they have to demonize all outsiders, especially close family.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:46 PM

89. I'm so sorry that it has came down to this, onecaliberal

In post #10, you said that you leave gifts on their porch for your grandchildren and you're not sure if the grandchildren are actually getting these gifts. Is it possible for you to start a savings account for your grandchildren? There will be a day when they will need extra money for a car, college or whatever else. I would hate to believe that your money could be potentially wasted. You could let them know down the road that you saved this money for their future.


Hugs to you.

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Response to Niagara (Reply #89)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:43 PM

122. I love this suggestion. Thank you.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 10:47 PM

90. You should force the issue and ask why

she's upset - get it out in the open and force her to answer. It may get messy, but it's the first step to resolving the issue. Perhaps another family member that she is closer to can serve as the mediator.

Was she always like this. I assume she was raised as a normal kid. Normal people whether Repub or Dem find ways to find common ground.

If she starts talking, don't try to unbrainwash her - just agree to leave politics and religion out of it - and only focus on family issues. The idea is to regain her trust.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #90)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:46 PM

125. Everything was fine until she married.

Slowly but surely we have arrived here.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:18 PM

102. my wife didn't speak to our daughter for several years..........

Because she was indoctrinated into a cult by her father (i'm the step-dad). She finally came out of it about two years ago and our relationship is healthy again. Although our situation was rather odd... My daughter was shunning my WIFE because she divorced her first husband, in violation of the cult rules. But I, having never been in the cult, was considered "worldly" so the daughter would still talk to me.

Speaking from experience all i can say is................

1. never close off lines of communication. make sure they always know you are there for them.
2. even if they don't respond, send an e-mail or text every once in a while. just say we miss you, how are you... be friendly. not threatening. ask if they need anything.

it may take time but reasonable people are eventually going to be at odds with a cult at some point, and if they have outside support, they will break free. A woman especially in this life.... *sigh* it is a ticking time bomb for her...... the longer she is in the more they are going to try to turn her life into handmaid's tale. it will be slow but deliberate... which is why you must provide her some sort of grounding in reality. If she blocks your communiques, write her a letter. If she tears them up, ask a friend to relay a message. But if she gets silence from you, she'll assume you are not coming if she has to call for help later.

drumpf has created this cult, to divide and conquer our country........

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Response to Takket (Reply #102)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:48 PM

128. Thank you, I appreciate the suggestions.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:18 PM

103. I lost my oldest son, and 2 granddaughters I will never know

I don't know what I did, but they have made it clear I am not to be trusted or spoken to. We live in a small town and they have also spoken ill of me around town... I don't care

One of the only things I can attribute to this is the fact that the d-i-l's mom is in NA and they are all about recovery. (even though both son and d-i-l drink, but that's ok for them) I have been known to enjoy a cocktail from time to time...but they make it seem like I am a falling down drunk who can't sustain a life. I was "allowed" to watch my first granddaughter for a total of 5 times when their work schedules conflicted... and then *poof* they made up some thing that I had a specific person at my house that they didn't like and that was it. (mind you, my babysitting time was SACRED I never had people over, that time was for baby only!)

Anyway, the kids are now 3 & 1 and my oldest has also cut out his younger siblings in favor of this girl and her family.

Don't know if it will ever be healed, I cry on mother's day and my bday.
My other kids are bitter and have no desire to mend fences, they think it is on HIM, and I have to say I agree.

It's heartbreaking :hugs: I think the person upthread who suggested volunteering with kids as an outlet for offering your love & wisdom is spot on.

Ironically, my eldest has some friends who are starting families of their own, and have included me...he has cut them off as well. So the isolation isn't just in the family, it's through all social contacts. (not a good sign )

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:33 PM

114. Have you ever wondered, what

It was like within families during the period leading up to the Civil War?

Some members of the family supported slavery and then some members did not.

I can sometimes only imagine the love that was felt between the various family members and the hurt at the choices that they faced.

This is not an answer, but what I know from my own personal experiences is this that regardless of the cost...

You must be true to yourself.

Good luck.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:45 PM

123. Happened to us during the Bush II era

Our adult daughter called and went into a screaming tantrum because we did not want to go to their church. We never provoked or questioned their political and religious views. I suspected that a minister at their church may have had something to do with it. I was tempted to call the church and ask for a meeting but decided to leave it alone and let time pass.

She didn't talk to us for almost a year after that. We did re-connect. No apologies and the event is never mentioned, but it seems she learned an important boundary. We were not going to let her behavior change or provoke us.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:46 PM

124. I think there is a real chance Trump will be the downfall

of the current neo-con movement. He is so bad a captain that ship is sinking.


The Trump movement may well be so discredited in 3 years, that it brings your daughter back to you. I hope so.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:47 PM

126. Tell them to read what Christ says in John 13:34

""A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
- John 13:34

Also, while they have their Bible cracked open, Matthew 25:40:


“And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’"
- Matthew 25:40

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:49 PM

129. Dear onecalliberal,

I am so sorry you are experiencing this hurt.
Hopefully one day your daughter’s heart will change.

Wishing you peace.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:53 PM

130. Thank you all for the kind words and encouraging suggestions

I am truly grateful for each one of your replies.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:01 AM

133. I'm so sorry.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:09 AM

135. It's hard to imagine anything more painful, except for a terminal illness.

Please let her (and any older grandchildren) know that your door is always open, and that no matter what you will be there for them, if they ever need it.

She may need a lifeline out of this cult, and you might be it someday. She needs to know you will forgive her.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #135)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:14 AM

137. Absolutely, I need to write her a letter.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 12:44 AM

143. I'm so sorry for you

This must be so painful. I would never give up my parents (even when they were alive ) for my husband.

Write her a letter and tell her you will always be there for her and if she needs money to escape you will give it to her. Does she have a friend you know and trust to give it to her directly? She might be in this against her will financially.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 01:14 AM

147. There is a big difference between the ideology of the Church,

and the teachings of Jesus, as indicated by his actual words, recorded in red letters in a red letter Bible. Jesus himself said nothing about the Trinity god-head, but he did say a lot about forgiveness, patience, tolerance, compassion, peace, and the corruption of greed and money.

I'm a Buddhist, who walked away from Christianity long ago. Shunning non-believers and labeling them as heretics is an age-old religious tactic to maintain discipline within the ranks. Try your best to practice patience, as you don't know what goes on in your daughter's marriage. Her husband and family might very well be controlling and manipulative -- even abusive.

My favorite parable of Jesus is about the Good Samaritan. In Jesus day, the Samaritans were dispised by the Jews, because they were "unclean," eating pork, not keeping the Sabbath, and worshipping idols. And yet in Jesus parable, it is the unclean Samaritan, who shows compassion to the victim in the road. Not the rabbi, not gthe Jewish priest, but the outsider.

This is a time for you to practice patience, love, and forgiveness.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 01:22 AM

148. I have a suggestion for you to ponder.

You're being robbed of your moral right to be a part of your grandchildren's life and upbringing, as is traditional in most civilized cultures. Let's start with that as a foundation.

Further, you own a level of moral authority that is above your daughter because you gave birth to her and raised her.

My suggestion is thus: find out the organizational structure of the church they attend and request a meeting with one of the high-level officers of that organization, whom I assume would also be a minister. Lay out your dilemma to him or her from a humanist moral standpoint, and not from a doctrinal viewpoint of any church because you would just get in a pissing match over secular doctrine. You wouldn't even need to reveal you daughter and son-in-law's name, just say "one of your churches".

Just explain to him/her you feel you should not be rejected from participating in that family simply because you don't attend their church or share their politics. If they reject your argument and are willing to quote the basis for that, I would be tempted to let them know there's consideration of either taking it to a higher level of authority within that church OR exposing that practice to public media such as state-level newspapers.

Further, if they are making an official pronouncement that the church says they must reject you because of your political beliefs, I would be having a chat with the ACLU or SPLC.

However, should you get lucky and the higher-ups agree with you, get them to write a letter of proclamation you can present to your kids to consider, and hopefully you can reunite with your daughter.

Often, these local pastors execute doctrinal practices they have designed to satisfy their ego which are not in compliance with the official doctrine of that organization. You deserve to know if that's the case here. After they are ordained, many of these dime-store preachers seem to think they are saints and have the right to declare what (their) god wants and does not want as if they have a direct line to heaven. Such proclamations in my view are human creations and are 100% false.

Something to think about and best of luck........

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2019, 04:12 AM

151. When my grandmother died...

My two aunts got into a long series of arguments that gradually drew in my sisters, cousins, etc. it eventually ended in violence. My one aunt shunned my mother because I had the audacity to call her out on her bullshit behavior. It has really split my family. I haven’t seen or uttered a word to my aunt or her kids. And if they fell off the planet, I would only feel sadness for my mother. They are evil, manipulative people who hide behind religion and racism.
I only feel bad for my mom.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

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