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Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:12 PM

The Senate is Not Going to Convict Trump, So Where Do We Go from Here?

I'm convinced at this point that an impeachment trial in the Senate will not remove Trump from office. So, how can we parlay the information from the hearings and information that is still being exposed to win the 2020 election? That, in my opinion, is the real question we should be examining.

We are not going to change the minds of Trump's right-wing base voters. There is no chance of that, i think. So, to win the White House and regain control of the Senate, we need to start thinking strategically about how to use the negative information about Trump and his cohort to energize other voters, both Democrats and Independents and, especially, people who don't normally show up at the polling places in November.

We need to keep the negative information flowing, with new information being revealed from now right through to next November. To that end, I think we should rethink hurrying the impeachment hearings and the issuance of articles of impeachment. Hearings do get the public's attention, so we probably need more of them as new information becomes available.

I think articles of impeachment should be passed in the House, but perhaps not until Spring of 2020. In the meantime, by keeping new information that emerges in the public eye through continued hearings, etc., we can reinforce the negative view of Trump, leading up to election season.

Combining that with a highly-organized national GOTV effort, I think it will be possible to flood the polling places with anti-Trump voters, which will also work toward a Democratic Senate majority.

I do not believe we are going to succeed in ousting Donald Trump prior to the 2020 election. We can definitely impeach him, but we will lose in the Senate, I believe. So, let's keep the negative energy coming out and influencing voters.

That's my opinion, as of today. It might change if some explosive information emerges, though.

72 replies, 3562 views

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Reply The Senate is Not Going to Convict Trump, So Where Do We Go from Here? (Original post)
MineralMan Nov 2019 OP
beachbumbob Nov 2019 #1
underpants Nov 2019 #4
MineralMan Nov 2019 #8
Aquaria Nov 2019 #49
underpants Nov 2019 #50
MineralMan Nov 2019 #5
bluestarone Nov 2019 #15
SWBTATTReg Nov 2019 #27
MineralMan Nov 2019 #28
samnsara Nov 2019 #55
SWBTATTReg Nov 2019 #63
OliverQ Nov 2019 #14
stopdiggin Nov 2019 #32
NewJeffCT Nov 2019 #21
DVRacer Nov 2019 #25
NewJeffCT Nov 2019 #30
MyOwnPeace Nov 2019 #71
brush Nov 2019 #24
DownriverDem Nov 2019 #35
DENVERPOPS Nov 2019 #36
McKim Nov 2019 #37
redstatebluegirl Nov 2019 #2
Iliyah Nov 2019 #3
mopinko Nov 2019 #6
DURHAM D Nov 2019 #7
Aquaria Nov 2019 #51
dalton99a Nov 2019 #9
MineralMan Nov 2019 #11
RobertDevereaux Nov 2019 #16
MontanaMama Nov 2019 #10
MineralMan Nov 2019 #12
struggle4progress Nov 2019 #13
CrispyQ Nov 2019 #17
kentuck Nov 2019 #18
Johonny Nov 2019 #19
Proud Liberal Dem Nov 2019 #20
ooky Nov 2019 #22
Runningdawg Nov 2019 #23
SayItLoud Nov 2019 #26
McKim Nov 2019 #38
0rganism Nov 2019 #29
Poiuyt Nov 2019 #47
Aquaria Nov 2019 #56
0rganism Nov 2019 #70
EndlessWire Nov 2019 #67
0rganism Nov 2019 #69
BamaRefugee Nov 2019 #31
The Liberal Lion Nov 2019 #33
Heartstrings Nov 2019 #34
DinahMoeHum Nov 2019 #39
pwb Nov 2019 #40
Imperialism Inc. Nov 2019 #41
Mr. Ected Nov 2019 #42
Aussie105 Nov 2019 #43
EndlessWire Nov 2019 #44
Aquaria Nov 2019 #57
EndlessWire Nov 2019 #65
gulliver Nov 2019 #45
Garrett78 Nov 2019 #46
NCLefty Nov 2019 #48
Moostache Nov 2019 #52
Aquaria Nov 2019 #59
DinahMoeHum Nov 2019 #61
Moostache Nov 2019 #64
EndlessWire Nov 2019 #68
EndlessWire Nov 2019 #66
samnsara Nov 2019 #53
mdbl Nov 2019 #54
bearsfootball516 Nov 2019 #58
mdbl Nov 2019 #60
Polybius Nov 2019 #62
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #72

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:16 PM

1. Conviction not important. It's exposing the collaborators with Putin

And hammer it home

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:19 PM

4. I agree. The point is what you said and to historically mark him

He will be only the 4th President (I think) impeached.

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Response to underpants (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:21 PM

8. Yes. Impeach the SOB, but don't rush the process.

That's what I think.

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Response to underpants (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:37 AM

49. Nixon wasn't impeached

 

He resigned before the full House voted on the articles passed by the Judiciary Committee. Which means Fatty McDmbAss could be the third subjected to House impeachment.

Heís the fourth subject of an impeachment inquiry, though.

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:41 AM

50. Okay. Thanks

I wasn't sure.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:20 PM

5. Yes, which is why I'm not necessarily in favor of rushing things.

As we're seeing, new information is appearing that expands on what we already know. We should be encouraging that and investigating it in the House. As long as it is making news, it is helping our cause.

I don't want to be in a hurry to have the Senate acquit Trump. Republicans will see that as a victory, and others will see it as a loss and become discouraged.

I think we should continue the investigation process as long as there is new negative information appearing. Unless we can get a conviction in the Senate, we should just keep pounding way at Trump in public hearings. Air out all the dirt we can discover.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:29 PM

15. Fully agree!

I also see no reason to hurry! LOT of good stuff could still come out! PLUS i know the rethugs hate it soo i love it!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 03:39 PM

27. I agree. There is nothing like a nice hot fire, to cook meat. Sear it good at first, and then ...

let it cook slowly over reduced flames.

In short (and I think Nancy Pelosi has got things under control w/ this process too), keep the negative information coming in (and there will be, with the whole mess that rump is involved with), and don't let the Senate get control of this process yet, not until the House is good and ready.

After all, w/ Moscow Mitch and the plans I've heard, the republican-controlled Senate is going to try and make a mockery out of the whole impeachment process. Don't allow them this opportunity, or at least, try to control the process somewhat. Be sure to hammer (impeachment in the Senate) the same points that the republicans have been trying to use in the House hearings (that they have had no say, no witnesses, etc. in the process, which is incorrect, they're just trying to muddle the waters).

Perhaps w/ the Supreme court justice presiding over the process (Roberts), there might be some control of the process, but who knows?

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 03:43 PM

28. Yes, Nancy Pelosi understands politics as well as anyone alive, I think.

She'll do whatever will be the most effective thing.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:53 AM

55. i have some faith in roberts..hes a bushie not a trumper..

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Response to samnsara (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 12:37 PM

63. I do too. And I read this too, that Roberts won't allow any crap etc. to occur during the ...

impeachment process while he's presiding over the proceedings, perhaps the constitution still means something to a lot of people, you think? Take care.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:27 PM

14. Conviction is important, because not being convicted means

 

he gets to cheat in 2020 again with zero consequences. That means the 2020 results may not be legitimate.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 04:21 PM

32. there really is no defense against cheating

in 2020 (or any other future election) outside of a vigilant public. And nothing going on in either chamber of the congress will (mechanically) effect efforts to that end.

And, as the OP states, the Senate is NOT going to remove this president.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:57 PM

21. What will happen in the Senate

is that we'll be forced to endure Hunter & Joe Biden being called as witnesses, Andrea or Alexandra Chalupa (forget which one), Peter Strozk, Lisa Page, Jim Comey, Jimmy Hoffa, Mary Jo Kopechne and others as well.

In the Senate Trial of Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky and Vernon Jordan had to give depositions - so, I have no doubt that whoever is the "House Manager" on the GOP side (Jim Jordan?) will call as many people as possible to blow up the trial

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 03:25 PM

25. Keep in mind

Trey (Benghazi,Her Emails) Gowdey comes off the bench Jan 3rd. He has been sidelined due to House rules but that expires soon. He will lead the Presidentís Counsel and be in charge of the defense team.

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Response to DVRacer (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 04:07 PM

30. oh yes

we can see Hillary Clinton and Susan Rice called as well.

Good point

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:39 PM

71. Love the list of potential witnesses.........

Thinking of a few you omitted:

John Wilkes Booth
Aaron Burr
Brutus
Jack the Ripper
Boston Strangler
Genghis Khan
Benedict Arnold
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

They should keep the "honorable opposition" busy proving their case..........

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 02:48 PM

24. Yes, (I) for impeached is not an advantage for a candidate.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 12:26 PM

35. Yep

It will be on the historical record and then we can work like hell to vote trump out.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 03:03 PM

36. The first step

The first step should be holding a very early Democrat primary, and then everyone getting 100% behind that candidate including the losing candidates. (None of that Bernie stuff he pulled in 2016 of not immediately getting behind Hillary. He isn't even a Democrat for goodness sakes) Hell, even after a couple of "shouldn't have ever run" Dem candidates drop out (finally), several new ego manaical ones jump in. The Republicans are loving that we are running around, the Dem candidates verbally destroying each other on stage in front of national audiences, and no organized leadership in sight to step up at the DNC and go to work on what is truly important.......

Ps: us here in Colorado should't talk, we are sitting on one of the major, all time "shouldn't have ever run" candidates that refuses to drop out even though he is probably at <1% in the polls.......Hell, Mr. Bennett, even Hickenlooper smelled the roses and dropped out of the race to run against the Republican Senator.......

Not that it matters in reality.....If you thought the 2000, 2004, and 2016 Presidential elections were rigged, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
The Republicans are one millimeter away from their lifetime wet dream of a Fascist Tyranny, and if you think they won't get much uglier, again you ain't seen nothin' yet. Katie Bar the Door........

WASF

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 03:57 PM

37. Time for Some Low Poll Candidates to Drop Out!

It is time for some low poll democratic candidates to drop out for the good of the party.
We need fewer candidates and to coalesce around a real winner. The uncertainty is damaging.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:17 PM

2. To the ballot box in droves in 2020 and beyond.

We have to beat them into oblivion not just barely.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:18 PM

3. In my opinion there is a strong

possibility they will.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:20 PM

6. remember that they can hide.

 

it's 2/3 of those present for the vote, as long as there is a quorum.
i suspect more than a few w a small prick of conscience, will just go ghost.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:20 PM

7. To the streets. nt

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:45 AM

51. And what has that done to change anything in this country for over 50 years?

 

Marching does zero. If it worked, we would never have invaded Iraq.

Itís time to face reality and look for new protest methods, rather than falling back over and over on wastes of time that donít work.

The hallmark of insanity is to keep doing the same stupid thing and expecting a different result.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:23 PM

9. Impeach. Win. Evict. Indict.

Impeach in April 2020. Win in November 2020. Evict in January 2021. Indict in February 2021.


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Response to dalton99a (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:25 PM

11. There you go.

If he is out of the White House in January of 2021, he won't get pardoned by Pence. He will be indictable. Nail his hide to the side of the barn!

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:45 PM

16. I love the way you think!

May it be so.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:24 PM

10. Impeach.

Swallow the bile 0f the senate letting him off the hook. GOTFV like this country hasnít seen before.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:26 PM

12. Yes, but timing matters.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:26 PM

13. "Elbow grease helps"

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:47 PM

17. There are other committees investigating Trump.



After Mueller, what House panels are investigating Trump? Aljazeera

Although Mueller found no evidence of collusion, Trump still faces sweeping investigations by several House panels.

by William Roberts
25 Mar 2019

snip...

"We are going to move forward with our investigations of obstruction of justice, abuses of power, corruption, to defend the rule of law which is our job," House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler told reporters in New York. "It's a broader mandate than the special prosecutor had."

The five House committees investigating Trump are led by an ensemble cast of very experienced Democrat legislators. Four of the five committee chairmen have served in Congress since the 1990s and witnessed the Republican impeachment of former President Bill Clinton.


The article lists each of the five committees & what they are investigating.

Hearings need to drag out so next summer's vacation reading is a long, long list of Trump's crimes. People need to be outraged come November. I believe if the dems move to quickly people who are not as involved in politics will forget how damning last week's testimony was. Plus the Con will then have months to claim/lie that he was once again exonerated. We are not out of danger until this man is out of office & he knows the shit storm waiting for him, legally, so it could get really interesting. And not in a good way.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:51 PM

18. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

Democrats can show the Republicans all the evidence and they still don't want to drink, there's not much more they can do. They can only vote their own consciences. They cannot predicate their vote on what the Republicans might do.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:54 PM

19. I think they'd be foolish to send it to the senate at this point.

There are so many open holes left to fill. They should demand records of Trump's calls to Saudi Arabia and Russia. They should get Guilian's patsy in to talk. Then start demanding and possibly arresting when they no show all the presidents men. They should grill Nunes. They should bring in more experts showing COWSTRIKE is a Russian talking point, and unpatriotic to be spreading as a fact. The case they have is strong, but there's no reason to waste it. Not when every day they can bury Trump deeper and deeper into the doo-doo. Make Mitch and Co worry about the trail well into March or April. Oh, and make Roberts keep having to explain why he won't let the tax returns become seen by Congress. Hold Robert's in contempt eventually. Drag them all in Trump's poo. Make them all stick it.

I wouldn't send it to the senate until after the first few Primary states. By then most of the senators that would be needed for the trial will likely be out of the race. Meanwhile, these impeachment hearings allow next election to become the real trial. The more disgusted people are with Trump, the more they'll want change. It's our fellow Americans that are the real jury. Give them all the facts. Bury Trump in it. It's clear people testifying to his evil deeds grinds him where it hurts. Keep hurting him.

And for the love of God, the DNC should have an impeachment ad during the Super Bowl...

Trump saying, I want corruption always, should do nicely.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 12:55 PM

20. Agreed with all of this

Plus, we need to keep pointing out that:

1.) The Senate is Republican-controlled and consists of people whom have ALREADY declared that they don't even care what evidence is presented. And others are flat out repeating/promoting Russian disinformation about Ukraine.
2.) Trump is essentially tainting the "jury pool" by schmoozing Republican Senators prior to the trial and/or twisting their arms.

An "acquittal" by a highly partisan and complicit Republican-controlled Senate should be viewed as and pointed out as a meaningless partisan sham. Which is why we need to make the case in the House as airtight and strong as possible, so that an outright Senate acquittal looks even more suspect and inappropriate.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 01:21 PM

22. I generally agree with what you say as far as impeachment goes.

Not sure exactly about the timing but I definitely don't think we should be in a hurry to send it to the Senate "before Christmas". I think that's coming more from the media than it is us. At least from a polling perspective I think we have more work to do. I would like to see us push the polling in battleground states for impeachment up a few more percentage points before we do it.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 02:21 PM

23. There is NOTHING any of us can do to aid the impeachment

But I think most of us know he will never be convicted and sure as hell never removed. What we can do is GOTV and get behind the nominee 100%.
I can't stress this enough - NEW VOTERS - not JUST young voters!! If everyone makes it a point to register just ONE new person AND they all agree to back WHOEVER is nominated, we can win 2020 easily.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 03:29 PM

26. I sure HOPE the Dems have a strong

messaging plan. They need the BEST that Madison Avenue has to frame the counter to tRUMP's " SEE, I was NOT convicted...all a hoax, waste of taxpayer dollars, I did NOTHING WRONG". That will be his and the rePUBICs message and 10 fold.

What will the Dems be? KISS, imo . Keep It Simple Stupid.

Just sayin.

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Response to SayItLoud (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 04:00 PM

38. Are You Better Off????

Are you better off than you were four years ago? This famous Reagan line could work well for Dems this year! Most MAGAS have failed to ask themselves this question, they are so distracted by the Trump Regime Circus!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 04:05 PM

29. 2 things, i think: careful messaging and solid visuals

this is why i've said i don't favor drawing out public impeachment hearings in the house - private ones, maybe, that continue to develop and extend the package of Articles of Impeachment, but the visuals for Democrats were awful.

like him and his candidacy or not, Bloomberg has a fantastic campaign slogan: Rebuild America. short, memorable, and pointed. invites exploration of how Trump has torn us down. i think Democratic candidates need to focus on the near-future: not "Medicare for All" plans and postures, but "once he's gone, how do we clean up the mess?" ideas and strategies.

i'm sure the Democratic party has many professional media analysts and campaign veterans who are far better at discerning these plays than me. i do however have my own highly unqualified opinion and i think what i've seen so far is Democrats paving the path for Trump's re-election. Democrats need to be more aware of the muted-television B reel, the stuff news networks loop for contextual filler, which is most of what people get when they aren't strictly paying attention to the audio but there's a TV on showing news in the background.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 11:08 PM

47. This

Though the Democratic party seems to avoid effective messaging for some reason.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:58 AM

56. We must not have seen the same hearings

 

Because the only people who looked awful were the RWNJs.

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:16 PM

70. that's all they had to do

it's like if you had a dinner party with several guests and one of them just randomly started shitting on the table. yeah, that one guy is pretty much obviously to blame for the turds on the tablecloth and, unless it's a very special kind of dinner party, people are going to be pissed off at him. however, the damage has been done and, again depending on what kind of dinner party it is, the guests won't be staying for dessert.

same deal with the hearings. the RWNJs acted like such utter dips that they pretty much made their half of the proceeding unbearable. that doesn't just reflect poorly on them, even though it should. they made their ridiculous signs as ugly and stupid as they were intentionally. if they could get a vast majority of the public to tune out (mute, change the channel, or just stop paying attention) they win, because a segment of those people won't tune in again.

it's really obscene what the Republicans are pulling. they disgrace their very offices, and make themselves stronger thereby.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 09:21 PM

67. I don't like the slogan.

"Make America Great Again." "Rebuild America." Bleh.

I'd like to go with something like, "Save Democracy." "Power To The People." (heh heh.) "No Rat Weasels Allowed." "Time To Start Draining The Swamp." etc. etc. Something you would"t expect.

"This Is My Country." Something. "Save The Country." "The Law Matters."

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:03 PM

69. i think i see where you're coming from

not really trying to spitball too much here, just i do think Bloomberg paid someone a lot to one-up MAGA for terseness and compression of meanings. that's how it pretty much needs to be to get cultural traction.

i think "Save the X" slogans tend towards ineffectiveness, just ask your local pod of humpbacks how well it's worked for them. i agree on your last one, but i'd maybe change "The Law" to "Justice", so "Justice Matters".

anyway we now have huge problems looming in our immediate future that must be addressed by whomever takes over next. i really hope the Democrats are up to the task.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Mon Nov 25, 2019, 04:10 PM

31. Move on to the next set of crimes, impeach again. Rinse and repeat endlessly until the stain is gone

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 12:19 PM

33. With all due respect

I'm pretty sure America already knows just how rotten to the core the Republican party is currently and just what an absolute POS trump is. The problem here is that it has been normalized. The country right now is in a feeding frenzy on fear. The left is fearful of continued right wing hegemony, the right is fearful of some kind of amorphous illusion of the left. The left should, in any other reality, not at all be worrying about it's chances to defeat and obliterate this current iteration of the right, yet we do. Why? Is our message not positive enough? Does not our message herald a new era of prosperity, abundance and peace for all? Is this not what people really want? Do people really want to live in constant fear?

Our candidates need to break out of this cycle of fear. We should not be selling hope. We should not be selling milquetoast. We should not be selling authoritarianism lite. We should be selling true progress. We should be selling a new era of peace, prosperity and abundance for all. And we should be selling it unapologetically.

Are our candidates, any of them, doing this? If so we have no need to worry and most certainly have no need to sink to the level of depravity that trump and the republicans only feed from.

With this I most respectfully disagree with the proposed strategy.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 12:25 PM

34. Get out the vote

is our only hope at this juncture imo.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 04:02 PM

39. DESTROY THE G.O.P. at the polls November 2020

at EVERY level, not just the Senate.

Send the message that their obstinacy will carry an extremely high price for them.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 04:04 PM

40. Lots of good shit still coming, I am hopeful he will be convicted.

If not the blue wave becomes tidal and republicans will be pushed back to where they should be.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 04:11 PM

41. I don't think dragging it out is a good idea.

The Republican's whole defense was it was just a gimmick and a circus, and dragging it out will just get some people (independents) to come around to that idea. Bringing the Mueller stuff back in for instance will almost certainly backfire. Non-political types are just over it. I'm all for bringing the 9 counts of obstruction Mueller found once he leaves office, but strategically it's not going to work right now.

I think we should either pivot to a censure vote in the house, or just go ahead and file articles of impeachment and have the trial while the public is still 50% for impeachment and removal.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 04:57 PM

42. The frightening thing is that he will use a Senate acquittal as his basis for "exoneration"

And turn the tables on the Democrats during the election cycle. He'll claim that mean Democrats for purely partisan reasons have attempted to bring him down, first via Robert Mueller, then via the Ukrainian impeachment proceeding.

This has been a no-win situation from the get-go, but only because the R's are watching one set of news items and the Dems are watching another. Nevermind that ours are real and his are fantasy, that's the world we live in right now and fake vs. real is the real battle being waged here.

MM, I fear for our nation, I won't lie.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 08:58 PM

43. Good points about the current situation:

1. It's making Trump feel very uncomfortable.
His feeling that 'it's easy' to subvert Democracy for his own gains must have faded by now.
The stream of Trump close enablers now serving jail time must be adding to this.

2. Even if he survives the move to impeach him, he is less likely to win a second term.

3. The American public - those that are watching - have been alerted to:

a. External influences in their elections.

b. How a snake oil salesman can get into the highest office in the land, and stuff things up.
The cry of 'Never Again!' might be appropriate here, eyes wide open this time! (Bloomberg needs to be aware of this.)

c. The importance of voting. 100 million people out there - go vote next time!

d. How propaganda is interwoven into their lives, and the need to protect themselves from it. (HINT: turn off Fox, critically examine MSM bias. Bothsiderisms, whataboutism, false equivalence etc, it's all out there.)

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 10:42 PM

44. I am very worried.

I am shocked that the Repubs act this way. I thought the Constitution was kind of sacred, the kind of thing that people fight and die for...Repubs ignore it every danged day.

I am shocked as to their logic. They can't seem to think. And, they fear Trump, or Putin, or some danged thing or person that caused them to lose their spines, if ever they had any. I've never seen the like before.

I am appalled that religious leaders have chosen to elevate the likes of Trump to G-d status. But, this makes more sense if you stop to see that a lot of religious communities are formed and led by men who are in it for the money. I would advocate for the next Dem leader to tax the shit out of them. "The root of all evil is money." (Although, I'd like to have a bit more.)

When Trump declared that wall national emergency, he gave himself dictator-like Constitutional powers. He was supposed to renew them, but that is a technical detail likely to be ignored. Did the Courts take that back? So much has happened since then, I can't keep up with it all. These powers pretty much mean that he can cancel the election. This is what I fear the most. The power of our vote is our opposition to a dictator. It's what we have the most of, but he can cancel the election--even if he has no legal reason to do so. Would love to be corrected here.

We have to plan on civil disobedience and marching in the streets. All of us. We have to pray that the military sides with us. But, we have so many douche bags in the highest echelons of government that it is difficult to say what the odds are gonna be. As we watch various countries and their struggles to keep or achieve democracy, we have to study what they are doing right or wrong, and not be afraid to adopt their techniques. We have to be just as strong as they have shown themselves to be, and do likewise.

And, if there is an election, I fear what Trump will do next. He is not going to resign. He may refuse to leave office.

Did you know that Obama signed legislation that enables the UN to enter our country in case of, say, a civil war or something? Food for thought...

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:04 AM

57. Civil disobedience is fine

 

But marching is a waste of time.

What will work:

Massive boycotts and work stoppages. If you shut down the economy, the wealthy and powerful will F-R-E-A-K.

All marching on a weekend morning on some deserted downtown thoroughfare will get you is a sore throat and a hole in your Birkenstocks.

Itís time to stop counting on tactics that have only decades of failure to show for them.

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:48 PM

65. Well, I understand what you are saying

But, I am not talking about weekend marches. You can't presume that we can't have a successful march during the week. Especially since massive turnouts can be done quicker and have immediate effect as to shutting down activity. Despite what could happen during a march, such as vandalism that we don't want, people are generally safer.

I think that publicity as to why people are revolting is very important. I think that an in-your-face demonstration complete with media coverage might make the government concerned.

You might not see any gratuitous reward, and maybe a sore throat and holes in your shoes might seem not worth it, but if we stick together, regard ourselves as warriors, then we can fight.

We can absolutely shut services off. It's a good idea. But, we need to be cunning about what we are doing, and give all the population a chance to participate in saving democracy in our nation. People have children and families to protect, and they need to see the truth about what is happening. No tactics will work if we don't share and stick together.

I disagree that marching in the streets has never worked.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 10:52 PM

45. It's better to let the Republican Senate acquit Trump and be made to regret it at the polls.

Dems were left with no choice. If we didn't impeach, we would have shown that the vital, clearly stated Constitutional check of impeachment on the Presidency doesn't mean anything. By impeaching, we show that the Constitution means something but that the Republicans think it doesn't.

That's not the best result, of course. Ideally, we would want the Republicans to affirm the Constitution. That would strengthen the Constitution and the United States for the difficult times ahead. We aren't heading toward that result yet, but we may see some surprising things in the Senate Trial. Roberts is a wild card. He might do some things that get the Senate Republicans on the side of the Constitution again.

If, after the trial, the Republicans have acquitted a clearly guilty Trump, then we will get on with life with only the Dems committed to the Constitution. The Republicans will have shown (as if we didn't know with McConnell stealing Garland's seat) that they are simply muggers. Then, it will be the voters' responsibility to toss every single Republican from office.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Nov 26, 2019, 10:58 PM

46. I've never thought and still don't think a conviction will happen, but...

...I don't think we can drag this out well into next year. Not without losing a good chunk of public support. The US population, as a whole, is just too damn ignorant and the average attention span too damn short.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 04:06 AM

48. We just need to demonstrate to the American people that we tried to hold these criminals to account

and hope it fucking sinks in finally that we actually need their help. :/

And keep doing public hearings if there are people with damning information to call.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:50 AM

52. A plan to physically pull him out of the office is needed....

I am not being hyperbolic here...

He will NOT accept an election that shows him losing, period. His followers are already primed for this through his rallies and constant victim-hood status.

He used Mueller to advance the notion of "No Collusion. No Nothing" since Barr's intervention and sabotage...this is despite the fact that Mueller himself is ON TAPE SAYING "NO!" to the question, "Did your report 100% exonerate the President?"

GOTV, winning at the ballot box, removal by the voters....all of this sounds great to those with hope. Reality is something else entirely. Trump is not going to leave the office willingly and he WILL try to declare the election "null and void" due to "corruption" because there is literally no law stopping him from trying it.

We will also find a way to pardon himself and his thieving kids before they ever face justice for their deeds.
What is the plan?

Secret Service intervention?
US Marshals?
Active duty military?
National Guard from Virginia?

Will any law enforcement arm from DoJ fire on Secret Service inside the White House?

Do not make the mistake of believing this is alarmist nonsense and that is CAN'T happen...this entire era is such a thing and its only getting worse...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:13 AM

59. Actually there is a plan in place

 

To remove a POTUS who refuses to leave after a new one is sworn in.

A former co-worker was one of those Marines standing outside the White House, and he told me they had routine exercises for dealing with precisely that scenario. He couldnít divulge details, but it essentially involved an LEO of some kind ďjacking him up and dragging his ass out.Ē Once youíre not POTUS and you try to stay there without permission to do so, you automatically become a trespasser and national security threat. And are dealt with accordingly.

So the paranoia about a defeated Sunpissed Orange refusing to leave and not ceding the office is just that: paranoia.

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 09:43 AM

61. Thanks for this info. Calling all DU Photoshoppers!!

Could someone please superimpose Trumps head and maybe his crossed arms onto this famous World War 2 USA homefront photo? Thanks.

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 02:56 PM

64. No, you do not get it...

There won't BE another swearing in...the entire process will be hijacked and the Trump cult will may the barricades to defend it.

Your faith in the existing order is EXACTLY why Trump is going to do this.
He has been setting it up for YEARS, since the 2015 escalator ride and campaign from hell for 2016.
He ALWAYS talks about "rigged", "witch hunts", "treating me very badly"...these are CODE for illegitimate in the 'minds' of his cultists.

He is not planning to be a squatter, he is going to be a usurper and will declare it a national emergency that MUST to sent to the SCOTUS immediately for resolution.

Call it paranoia or delusion or fantasy, but think about it really...what can or will be done when he refuses to ACKNOWLEDGE an election defeat?

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 09:33 PM

68. Wow, where have you been?

Paranoia? I don't think so! This guy has a private security team protecting his fat, doughy, orange ass. He's dangerous, exceeds the norm, and I don't think he will voluntarily leave office. And, there are more than a few of us that think that.

Obviously, we have to make a mighty, mighty effort to vote this effer out of office. But, it is not beyond reality that we are looking at our first dictator; what do you think will happen? We need to be prepared to FIGHT.

Trump already IS a national security threat.
































































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Response to Moostache (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 09:03 PM

66. I agree. n/t

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:51 AM

53. i agree.. i think this should go on and on..keep trump in as much emotional tourmoil..

..as possible for as long as possible. if we cant remove him we can make his life hell. Maybe he will stress eat!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 07:52 AM

54. Stop this strategy crap!!! We need to shame the Senate Leaders at every angle and

do whatever is necessary to make sure every moron Mush Bimbo listener and Faux Nooze watcher knows they are just as crooked as Trump for enabling this criminal, dictator and treasonous behavior with foreign adversaries. I don't care if you think the Senate will impeach or not this process should continue full steam ahead until it can't any longer until those responsible which includes Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham in particular and the rest of the republicans can't walk anywhere without the criminal brand over their head they have cultivated. If you let up, even a little, we have lost our democracy. Don't let your sense of strategy let them put the final nail in the coffin where the lid is already almost closed. This is a fight for the values in our Constitution. It has been shit all over by the republicans. They have broken their oath over and over.

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Response to mdbl (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:07 AM

58. No one is saying to stop the process.

But it's also become very clear that Trump voters aren't leaving him, no matter what. And with them not leaving him, there's no chance Republican senators vote for conviction.

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Response to bearsfootball516 (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:20 AM

60. It's way too early to worry about Trump voters when laws are being broken

I don't care who likes or dislikes Trump. This is no longer a popularity contest and the pressure should not stop until the criminals are brought to justice. If this process fails, our system will fail.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:26 AM

62. Roughly 48% of the population supports removing Trump from office

So if we can tie or even beat that percentage in the Senate Trial, it'll be a win.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:51 PM

72. the House hasn't finished yet and you're drawing conclusions about the Senate

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