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Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:39 PM

Possible nightmare scenario? help me out here please!

I'm very worried that tRUMP could resign for medical reasons. (i believe under NO circumstances does he want anyone to see his taxes) i'm thinking his lawyers are telling him he will lose the taxes lawsuit. Now can someone clarify what would take place if he were to resign under these conditions? pence would become president. Would the House lose all chances of investigating the tRUMP family? What are OUR options here? TY

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Reply Possible nightmare scenario? help me out here please! (Original post)
bluestarone Nov 2019 OP
RKP5637 Nov 2019 #1
dewsgirl Nov 2019 #3
RKP5637 Nov 2019 #4
bluestarone Nov 2019 #7
captain queeg Nov 2019 #2
Rorey Nov 2019 #29
catbyte Nov 2019 #5
leftieNanner Nov 2019 #9
Blue_true Nov 2019 #65
hlthe2b Nov 2019 #6
bluestarone Nov 2019 #11
Salviati Nov 2019 #19
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #24
bluestarone Nov 2019 #32
erronis Nov 2019 #37
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #49
MineralMan Nov 2019 #25
WA-03 Democrat Nov 2019 #38
Salviati Nov 2019 #41
Captain Zero Nov 2019 #43
Shrike47 Nov 2019 #48
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #51
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #50
MineralMan Nov 2019 #52
bluestarone Nov 2019 #53
MineralMan Nov 2019 #54
onenote Nov 2019 #59
Blue_true Nov 2019 #70
Blue_true Nov 2019 #68
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #57
bluestarone Nov 2019 #58
Salviati Nov 2019 #62
Blue_true Nov 2019 #67
Blue_true Nov 2019 #66
NNadir Nov 2019 #8
Raftergirl Nov 2019 #10
MineralMan Nov 2019 #12
bluestarone Nov 2019 #14
MineralMan Nov 2019 #15
karynnj Nov 2019 #39
bluestarone Nov 2019 #44
bluestarone Nov 2019 #20
MineralMan Nov 2019 #21
bluestarone Nov 2019 #22
erronis Nov 2019 #40
MineralMan Nov 2019 #46
dawg day Nov 2019 #30
MineralMan Nov 2019 #35
Kaleva Nov 2019 #13
grantcart Nov 2019 #18
grantcart Nov 2019 #16
Rorey Nov 2019 #33
grantcart Nov 2019 #47
NotASurfer Nov 2019 #17
MineralMan Nov 2019 #23
dawg day Nov 2019 #28
MineralMan Nov 2019 #31
Rorey Nov 2019 #36
erronis Nov 2019 #42
Rorey Nov 2019 #34
dawg day Nov 2019 #26
Grasswire2 Nov 2019 #45
wheelman Nov 2019 #63
Turbineguy Nov 2019 #27
pbmus Nov 2019 #55
Codeine Nov 2019 #56
StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #61
dlk Nov 2019 #60
Blue_true Nov 2019 #71
dlk Nov 2019 #72
Blue_true Nov 2019 #64
brettdale Nov 2019 #69

Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:42 PM

1. If he's not in office, he still has all those cases in New York to deal with ... I would think.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:43 PM

3. And they can't be pardoned.

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:45 PM

4. Thankfully!!! I think he's going to end up in a really bad situation ... I sure hope so. The tRump

crime family ... and cohorts.

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:48 PM

7. THIS is the best part

Hope we can tie lots of people to all this bullshit, with his taxes!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:43 PM

2. I'm worried Trump will avoid his come-upance too

But for the sake of the country I hope heís got some serious health issue.

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Response to captain queeg (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:01 PM

29. That's where I'm at too

As much as I want him to get EVERYTHING he deserves, and as much as I would think it would be a travesty for him to get a state funeral (thinking ahead here ), he just needs to be gone NOW.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:46 PM

5. I'm not sure, but the SDNY investigations wouldn't be affected and those are them ones they should

really be afraid of. But you're probably right. pence will pardon them all then they will escape federal justice, but the state charges will still be in place. I knew Ford pardoning Nixon was a horrific move back in 1974 and it's come home to roost. But they will not be able to worm their way out of state charges, especially since New York closed that pardon loophole a couple of months ago.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:50 PM

9. SDNY is Federal

So that would shut down. The state of New York would continue.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:12 PM

65. They are federal investigations. If Pence gives a blanket federal pardon, they vanish. nt

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:47 PM

6. NY State will continue no matter what & no pardons for state crimes. Congress could continue to

investigate from the standpoint of passing legislation to avoid future similar issues with Executive Branch officials ignoring subpoenas, violating Hatch Act and potential ways to strengthen/define the Emoluments clause--as well as prevention of foreign election interference. While the focus would move from impeaching/punishing Trump to prevention, it could continue and evidence could potentially benefit others.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:51 PM

11. Could we switch to pence and or Barr?

They were BOTH deeply involved with all the bullshit as well.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:12 PM

19. Well, I think before allowing pence to appoint a VP, we need to know "if" he was dirty as well.

If the country can run fine for a year short a Supreme Court Justice, it can certainly operate fine for a year without someone warming the VP seat. Any VP approval has to go through Pelosi.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:36 PM

24. I doubt the House would approve any VP pick

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:04 PM

32. Question for you. ( your one of my go to's for info) TY

If and i mean IF pence pardons tRUMP, can tRUMP be subpoenaed by the house for testimony against pence? or called before a GJ to testify?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #32)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:14 PM

37. I think a pardon is only specific for the crimes that are mentioned in the pardon.

Therefore trump can be compelled to testify for other crimes, such as those that pence may have committed at trump's/repuglicon behest. He also can't plead the 5th for any of his own crimes - he would have to testify accurately or risk criminal charges.

IANAL but between this site and EmptyWheel I feel like I've learned a bit of the lingo.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #32)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:46 PM

49. Interesting question!

Yes, I think he could be a subpoenaed. But while he couldn't hide behind the Fifth Amendment (since the pardon would have removed any possibility of self-incrimination), he might try to invoke executive privilege.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:53 PM

25. That's not how it works. Not at all.

The minute Pence becomes President, he is the President, and has all the powers of any President. He would name a VP right away, no doubt.

Nobody has anything to say about that. The Constitution makes it clear. If Trump resigns, Pence is President immediately and can do anything any President can do.

We don't get to "allow" him to do anything. Not in any way, shape, or form.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:17 PM

38. Appointment of new VP though would be subject

Goes through House approval.

Pence gets the full power of the president after being sworn in.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:21 PM

41. Appointment of a new VP is subject to approval by congress.


Section 2 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment provides that, "Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."[4] This procedure has been implemented twice since the amendment came into force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Vacancies

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:25 PM

43. right, and the SENATE confirms a new vp, not the house as someone above stated, so Mitch's last FU

would to be to confirm a Pence pick that McConnell and other GOP criminals would agree upon/.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:56 PM

48. No, it's BOTH houses of Congress. Senate and House both have to approve any appointed VP.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:50 PM

51. Please read the 25th Amendment

"Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:48 PM

50. He can't just unilaterally install a vice president.

His VP pick would have to be approved by both houses of Congress

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #50)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:51 PM

52. That is true. As a courtesy, the House and Senate generally approve

of the new President's choice very quickly, since we can't be without a VP. I don't know of any case where there was a delay or when anyone was not approved.

So, in reality, whoever the new President appoints is almost certain to be accepted by Congress.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:55 PM

53. Well in this case

I hope you're wrong! We are in different times (horrible times) We need to block block block if we don't like the pick! To much at stake in this country today!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #53)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:57 PM

54. Tradition will probably be followed.

Fortunately, a Pence presidency is almost certain to end in January of 2021, and he'll probably live until then, so the VP choice won't matter all that much, most likely.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #54)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:31 PM

59. No tradition applicable to this situation

The first time Congress had to approve a replacement VP, the sitting president (Nixon) did the nominating. The second time, it was Nixon's nominee, Gerald Ford, who did the nominating, and unlike Pence's situation, Ford was free and clear of any suspicion that he had knowledge or involvement in Nixon's impeachable acts.

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Response to onenote (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:22 PM

70. By picking Ford, who was well thought of in the House, Nixon avoided the pick being

held up.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #53)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:20 PM

68. I totally agree. nt

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:57 PM

57. Since this has only happened twice in history, the last time more than 40 years ago

and, in the second case, Congress took four months to confirm the president's VP choice - not to mention how the Trump- Pence Administration has treated Congressional Democrats - it's highly unlikely the current House is going to feel much obligation to feel any obligation to show Pence any "courtesy" by quickly confirming his nominee.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #57)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:08 PM

58. I'm thinking also that IF the House blocks the VP THEN

Nancy will be in line if pence was taken ill? THIS would be reason that the senate and President would be careful. Is this wrong thinking?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:27 PM

62. We can certainly be without a VP

They have no constitutional duties, other than being a warm body to fill the office of presidency as needed. We've had many instances of vacancy in the office of VP, several lasting over 3 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Vacancies

If a supreme court justice's seat can go unfilled for over a year, so can the office of VP.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:20 PM

67. We actually can do without a VP. The Constitution has remedies for that in case the

President dies or becomes incapacitated.

Pence would have to pick a clean, not too ideological VP to get the House to go along. Or he picks a democrat like Joe Manchin or Tulsi Gabbard, that are suitable to him and who democrats in the House would likely not reject.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:14 PM

66. His VP has to be approved by Congress. nt

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:49 PM

8. The statute of limitations will not have run out when we have an honest Attorney General.

No Democratic President is going to appoint a criminal like Barr to the office.

If Trump dies in office, he escapes prison.

If he lives until 2021, he's going to die in prison.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:50 PM

10. I don't think it'll stop

the House from their investigations.

There are still admin officials likely involved in the Bribery scheme and cover-up.



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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:52 PM

12. If Trump resigns, impeachment ends.

If he's not President, he can't be impeached. Odds are that Pence would issue a blanket pardon for everything Trump has done since becoming President. Possibly, he could pardon him across the board for federal crimes, even before he was President.

However, that wouldn't affect state cases at all. Still, they might get dropped too as not being worthwhile prosecuting. I don't know.

Bottom line, really, is that if Trump resigns and gets pardoned, he'll likely not face much of anything in the way of prison-time charges. I'm OK with that, as long as he is out of the White House permanently. That's where he is most dangerous.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:57 PM

14. Very true!

But we still have pence, barr, and Mcturtle and many more to investigate. I'm hoping the House will continue the whole bunch!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:02 PM

15. The whole investigation would have to be completely

reconfigured. Really, it would have to start over from scratch. It's totally focused on Trump right now. That would end immediately on his leaving office if he resigns.

Trump knows that. He's had a couple of tough election losses in a couple of states. His popularity and influence are fading fast, and more is about to be revealed in the House. If ever there was a good time for him to step down, it's right about now.

If he waits too long, Pence might not issue the blanket pardon Trump needs. It would be too unpopular, and Pence has his eyes on the White House. I think he's foolish to think he could get elected, but I suspect he does think that.

More bad news will be coming out very soon about Trump. He can end the investigation overnight if he resigns. I think it's getting more likely that he will do that every day.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:19 PM

39. I disagree that it has to be completely reconfigured

Like any investigation - and like the Mueller investigations, it really seems to have been constructed from the bottom up. The witnesses have been defining what happened. Already, the 2 FL Giuliani guys have been indicted and Giuliani himself appears to be under FBI investigation.

If Trump resigns, what it would do is change the characterization of the hearings - as they would likely become oversight hearings rather than impeachment hearings. However, if Pence continues Trump's withholding of documents and people appearing, he opens himself to obstruction of justice charges. Also remember it will likely be an election year, he will probably throw Trump, Giuliani etc under the bus and try to make the case he was out of the loop. He would also have a cynical, personal reason NOT to pardon Trump before the election if he is running. (he might even call for the investigation to continue and claim he is anti corruption (ugh!) )

I suspect that with the Mueller investigation, where we still do not have the full report, and where we are now on this - it is too late to have a Trump resignation/ Pence swearing in that wipes everything away.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:30 PM

44. I do agree with your comment about pence continuing the OBSTRUCTION!

He will almost have to because he's so deeply involved. That means he will have to stay with BARR as AG? The coverup continues!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:26 PM

20. If pence becomes president, do you have any guess's as to who the AG will be? or VP?

Will he keep barr? ( i'm thinking not) but could be wrong also VP who would that be (Nikki Haley)?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:28 PM

21. I don't know. If Trump does resign, installing Pence as President,

what I expect is no immediate changes in anything. It will be a tumultuous time in DC. Pence will accomplish nothing and nothing much will change. It will simply be a waiting period until the election in November.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:31 PM

22. YEA! ty

Crazy times ahead for sure! Comes down to VOTE VOTE VOTE!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:20 PM

40. "Tumultuous time in DC" - don't some foreign powers want exactly that scenario?

This seems like it has been building for many years. Perhaps since the fall of the USSR and the ascendancy of one Vlad. Of course the KGB was rather expert, back in the good old days, of causing mayhem. Perhaps better than some of our clandestine operations.

Watch out for unintended consequences. Both in the US and Russia. China and others are doing some deep analyses of these environments.

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Response to erronis (Reply #40)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:36 PM

46. Lots of people want lots of things.

We have an election next year. A lot depends on that. I do hope that Democrats will see the value in having a historically large turnout of Democrats next year. That's what I hope.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:02 PM

30. He's an old man. It might be some kind of rough justice if he had to spend his remaining years--

fighting state charges. NY very likely can go after him for tax evasion, and probably will-- why let a huge tax cheat who claims he's a billionaire go when he'd be a great example to the other tax payers?

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Response to dawg day (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:09 PM

35. Once Trump is out of office, I do not give a damn what happens to him, frankly.

I don't think about that at all. I just want him out of the White House before he blows up the planet.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:52 PM

13. Trump out of office isn't a nightmare scenario for me.

Whatever were to happen to him after he's out of office is beyond my control and no one of importance is asking my opinion as what should be done, if anything, should that happen.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:07 PM

18. He will still have a daily "told you so" with the same quality logic of birtherism

Until he is dead

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:05 PM

16. Much worse than you imagine

1) Trump will start massive pardons. Like the war crimes but also across the board hundreds for drug related crimes

2) He will pardon Stone. And IL governor Blagojevich (sp?)

3) he will fake a "catastrophic medical event" get better and then get worse (which I predicted 3 years ago.

4) Have to resign (before removal) of office to retain SS and other privileges. Gets pardon.

5) stays quiet until after the election.

6) then has infantile Twitter break down every day until the rest of his life. That is the real nightmare.

7) He will be prosecuted by NY State but it may be difficult to prosecute because most of the time he had cut outs.

Having the media start every day with their Trump 30 minutes even after he is out of office. If it appears that he is going to prison he will go to some place like Abu Dhabi and live in luxury.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:06 PM

33. I don't think he'll pardon Blagojevich

He was a Democrat, and as far as I know there would be no benefit to Conald.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #33)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:41 PM

47. The benefit is the "both sides do it" framing


He will pick out dozens of cases including people out of prison and probably some that are dead.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:05 PM

17. I don't think MF45 will trust Pence

His last official act before leaving office will be to pardon himself for any and all crimes and misdemeanors he ever committed or ever will commit, at any level of jurisdiction, in this or any past or future lifetime, including but not limited to shooting as many people as he wants on Fifth Avenue, and dare anyone to pursue any legal action

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Response to NotASurfer (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:35 PM

23. It is not at all clear that he could pardon himself.

I doubt that he can. Pence will pardon him, though.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:59 PM

28. I'm not sure Pence would necessarily go through with the pardon he might promise.

Pence is very good at deciding what he wants to do is ordained by God.

He will probably piously say that God doesn't want him to pardon Trump. He isn't very bright, but he's arrogant. It's a weird combination of submission and conceit. "I'm so great, I can pretend to be Trump's little lapdog, but really I'm in charge."

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Response to dawg day (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:04 PM

31. He will issue the pardon. In fact, it will be written before Trump resigns,

if Trump resigns. No pardon; no resignation. Pence wants so badly to be President that he'd sign anything to get the chance. I don't think there's any question at all about the pardon - assuming a resignation by Trump. Pence would insist on that, and Trump would insist on a full, blanket pardon for all federal crimes, including any committed before he became President.

Pence would simply ask, "Where do I sign?"

Pence is a dominionist. He want's a nation run by God's rules. He's not going to get that, but that would not stop him from trying if he becomes President. However, he would only be President until 2021. He cannot win the 2020 election. Nobody really likes him, but he doesn't really know that.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:09 PM

36. I think he might know he's not liked

But I think he just can't fathom why.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #31)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:23 PM

42. Isn't Barr part of that ilk - dominionist? And who cares who likes him. Jesus and mother do.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:08 PM

34. Maybe Mother will talk him into not pardoning Conald

I don't think she likes him much.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:57 PM

26. And let's say Pence pardons Trump for federal crimes?

Well, we know how that worked for Gerald Ford. Even actual Nixon supporters thought that was a craven move, and that there had probably been a deal made so that Nixon would resign and Ford would get to be president.

I think it's more likely that in 2020, no matter if Trump or Pence is at the top of the ticket, national revulsion will vomit them out of office.

And Pence is hardly free of the charge of complicity. He was all over the Zelensky extortion.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:31 PM

45. But the election is already rigged and unreliable.

Coates, Comey, Wray and Mueller all told us so UNDER OATH.

All it takes is for several states' tallies to be botched, and then referred to SCOTUS for resolution. Voila.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:26 PM

63. I don't get why

so few can't see that what grasswire2 just said is all too likely. I actually expect it, but hope I'm wrong. Of course if I AM wrong, it would, I guess, mean the Coats, Comey, Wray and Mueller were all wrong.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:58 PM

27. Trump pulls out

and all his operatives go to jail.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:08 PM

55. Try to think of the worst case scenario and then multiply that by 10...

You will have come close to what is going to happen with the Big Con...


Grantcart is coming very close...he just forgot to mention starting a war Iran...

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:11 PM

56. Honestly, if he goes without

being investigated I really donít care. I just want him gone.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #56)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:57 PM

61. That may be what he's banking on ...

That we just get so worn down, we simply say, "Whatever. Just GO!"

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:54 PM

60. The SDNY investigation into misappropriation of Trump's inaugural funds would continue

If crimes were committed, Trumpís being in office or not wouldnít impact the investigation or prosecution.

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Response to dlk (Reply #60)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:29 PM

71. No it would not. That investigation is Federal.

Pence most likely would give a blanket pardon, which wipes out all federal investigations.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:25 AM

72. Yes, it's federal and the case would continue unless there is a pardon.

Pence is involved in the bribery scandal, too, and other than speculation, the future is difficult to accurately predict at this point.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:10 PM

64. Pence would likely pardon Trump.

So yes, the House investigation would become moot and would stop since it's main purpose (determine whether Trump violated US laws) would become irrelevant.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:21 PM

69. Trump will not resign

Not a chance.

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