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Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:17 PM

a new pet peeve for me-dotard using people's first names when he doesn't know them

was napping and woke up to his disingenuous remarks on veterans and he started calling veterans who have passed by their first names.



I hate that. I will not let my students use first names in their research and I hate that he does it.


I had a student writing a paper about Harriot Tubman, and they wanted to use Harriot all the time. I would cross it out and say "you did not know her first hand, you do not get to use her first name"

Am I just old?

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Reply a new pet peeve for me-dotard using people's first names when he doesn't know them (Original post)
demtenjeep Nov 11 OP
hlthe2b Nov 11 #1
Wellstone ruled Nov 11 #10
dewsgirl Nov 11 #2
demtenjeep Nov 11 #3
dewsgirl Nov 11 #5
Cirque du So-What Nov 11 #4
emmaverybo Nov 11 #6
demtenjeep Nov 11 #7
Brainfodder Nov 11 #11
Butterflylady Nov 11 #8
lunatica Nov 11 #9
Ms. Toad Nov 11 #12
FirstLight Nov 11 #13

Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:21 PM

1. He does it as a "power dynamic" thing.

Calling someone--anyone--by the first name when you don't know them, haven't given them permission to do so, diminishes them. Very important to an insecure narcissist like Trump, who by convention is going to be treated with the respect he hasn't earned.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:33 PM

10. You are so right.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:22 PM

2. I'm a gen. Xer and feel it is disrespectful.

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:24 PM

3. I was almost a boomer but missed it by a couple years WE were taught respect

some of the younger teachers allow their students to call them Ms. Em or Mr. Tim.


I will allow Mrs. XXXXX or Ms. D and that is it


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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:27 PM

5. It really does seem to be a generational thing.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:26 PM

4. If I were reading that student's paper

I'd be upset over the misspelling of her first name as well.

I agree that use of the first name implies familiarity and has no place in a research paper.

In addition, Orange Foolius is being disrespectful by leaving off the rank when mentioning these heroes.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:28 PM

6. No. Students must learn academic and professional writing conventions, which have not changed

in matters of address. Trump loves to tell “Sir” stories but shows a total lack of respect for those he considers his inferiors—everyone else, except personal sycophants when he is pouring it on about them to the public.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:28 PM

7. Gex X largest population

https://www.kasasa.com/articles/generations/gen-x-gen-y-gen-z


As of 2019, the breakdown by age looks like this:
Baby Boomers: Baby boomers were born between 1944 and 1964. They're current between 55-75 years old (76 million in U.S.)
Gen X: Gen X was born between 1965 - 1979 and are currently between 40-54 years old (82 million people in U.S.)
Gen Y: Gen Y, or Millennials, were born between 1980 and 1994. They are currently between 25-39 years old.
Gen Y.1 = 25-29 years old (31 million people in U.S.)
Gen Y.2 = 29-39 (42 million people in U.S.)
Gen Z: Gen Z is the newest generation to be named and were born between 1995 and 2015. They are currently between 4-24 years old (nearly 74 million in U.S.)

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Response to demtenjeep (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:42 PM

11. Gen X to me was Jan 1964 through 1981.

That's 18 years, a generational spread.

I am late 60's born myself and an old friend born in 1980 and I had talked about it, and were amused at being Gen X but at opposite ends of it and still lots of common ground.

Meanwhile, I like ^ caz I have only one sib (older) and technically outside the Gen X years.



It really doesn't matter like most things, even political parties are a joke at the base level, since I can change via one signed form, ANY TIME!?!


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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:30 PM

8. Respect doesn't exist anymore!

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:31 PM

9. The correct way to write about someone is

To start with their full name but thereafter to us the last name unless it causes confusion.

An exception is that even though when writing about Hillary Clinton her last name should be used, and it often is, but it creates confusion as to whether the Clinton referred to is in relation to her or to Bill Clinton.

In a book this rule doesn’t apply, but in articles it does.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:45 PM

12. Well, you're not a Quaker -

Quakers have a long-standing tradition of using first names - although Trump doing so has the oposite impact (and is likely for opposite reasoning).

For Quakers, using a first name is not disrespectful - it is done to erase presumed stature based on class (older people, people with better education, people with royal blood, etc. get called Mr./Ms./Mx./Doctor/Her Royal Highness so-and-so), while children, servants, slaves, peasants etc. are called by their first names. Our belief is that no one is deserving of an extra measure of respect based on such characteristics. (And we got tossed in the brig for refusing to doff our hats to the king, for example.)

Trump is using it for opposite reasons - he is reinforcing traditional class structures. It doesn't bother me, but I don't have any objection to people calling him on it.

As to your students, were I in your class in high school - at a time when I was actively working against class lines - I would relatively easily have accepted an explanation that that focused on the nature of the work product, and that the style of writing required the use of last names, rather than first names. (Or - if I had used Harriet coupled with last names or (worse yet last names + titles) for others - I would have wanted it pointed out that I was perpetuating existing class distinctios.)

Had I received the comment you indicate you are giving to students, you would have gotten significant push-back from me, becuase it would have required me to use a class distinction (knowing a person v. not knowing them) I find offensive.

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Response to demtenjeep (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:46 PM

13. Agreed... but also I was taught that in writing or citing sources you have to use last names

duh...that's like standard procedure. Then again, drumpf never went to college and learned how to write a fucking research paper...
And he does it verbally, which is more about his psychological pathology more than anything. Someone upthread said it's a power dynamic, it's also just plain disrespectful, but he lack any kind of empathy pr respectability

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